Removing Lead


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shane8168
January 26, 2013, 10:35 PM
Okay, I developed a "leading" issue with my SR9C...

What is the best way to remove that lead from the barrel?

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Thompsoncustom
January 26, 2013, 10:41 PM
How much leading? is there just a bit in some parts of the barrel or is it caked on through out the whole length of the barrel?

J.R.W.
January 26, 2013, 10:43 PM
copper chore boy wrapped around an old brush..........

bds
January 26, 2013, 10:46 PM
Wrap some strands from copper scrubber like Choreboy (use a magnet to check it's not copper plated steel) around an old copper bore brush and after a few strokes, presto, leading is gone!

I dip it in Hoppes #9 and clean fouling and remove leading/smearing at the same time.

I guess bigwhiteyj posted while I typed. :D

shane8168
January 26, 2013, 10:56 PM
That is what I tried today, took several swipes with the Chore Boy, but eventually it is clean again.

The lead was pretty much down the entire bore Thompsen...

Weird, I didn't have any leading issues with the same gun and the same bullets until I changed from Unique to W231...

Matt Dillon
January 27, 2013, 12:20 AM
I use lead cleaning cloth, wrapped around a brush. You'll be amazed at what you will get out of a supposedly clean barrel.

GLOOB
January 27, 2013, 12:27 AM
I used to rely on Chore Boys. But since I have started learning how to cast my own, I have discovered a whole new level of leading!

On a few occasions, I have used a brass tube. I sharpen/flare it with an inside chamfer tool, and it scrapes the lead out in strips.

I have another few boxes of overly hard and underlubed bullets to shoot up. Scraping out the lead is a relatively minor hassle compared to pulling all those bullets!

rodinal220
January 27, 2013, 11:34 AM
+1 on the copper chore boy wrapped around an old bore brush or a Lewis lead remover,but I would dose it with some Kroil .

pat701
January 27, 2013, 11:42 AM
Kroil!!!

bds
January 27, 2013, 11:42 AM
If you are getting a lot of leading, check out chapter 7 of Glen Fryxell's ebook on leading - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

Chapter covers definition, location, cause, prevention and removal. A must read if you load lead bullets and don't want to hassle with leading.


Weird, I didn't have any leading issues with the same gun and the same bullets until I changed from Unique to W231...
What bullet weight/powder charge of W231 were you using?

I use W231/HP-38 with 9mm/40S&W/45ACP lead loads and do not get leading, at the most just a light smearing near the chamber end.

il.bill
January 27, 2013, 11:44 AM
+1 on the copper chore boy wrapped around an old bore brush or a Lewis lead remover,but I would dose it with some Kroil .

The Kroil works wonders removing lead. Run a Kroil-soaked cotton patch down the bore and let it set several minutes. Come back with the cotton patch and watch the shiny lead flakes peel right out of the rifling. A brass brush helps on heavy deposits. Soak the area around the forcing cone and the Kroil will get underneath the lead and a nylon toothbrush scrubs it all away.
I use Hoppes #9 first to clean the fouling followed by Kroil to remove the lead. Both are best used outside the house if anyone objects to the odors.

murf
January 27, 2013, 11:47 AM
suggest you go back to using unique.

murf

Backpacker33
January 27, 2013, 03:25 PM
I use a lot of 231 in various loads, with lead bullets. A friend taught me to cut bees wax wads from sheets I buy online. I put one under the bullet and I get very little leading, even with 44 Mag lead bullets. My friend claims the wads also cut away leading that is already present. I can't confirm that, only that I get minimal leading with any load where I use the wads.
One of our sons was a machinist and he made me cutters about 4" long, 9mm, 40S&W, 44 Mag/Special, and 45-Colt/ACP. If you don't want to do that or can't, I suspect cutting the end off a shell would give you the same thing.

shane8168
January 27, 2013, 10:29 PM
If you are getting a lot of leading, check out chapter 7 of Glen Fryxell's ebook on leading - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

Chapter covers definition, location, cause, prevention and removal. A must read if you load lead bullets and don't want to hassle with leading.



What bullet weight/powder charge of W231 were you using?

I use W231/HP-38 with 9mm/40S&W/45ACP lead loads and do not get leading, at the most just a light smearing near the chamber end.
BDS...

Loading Dardas .357 125 gr RN lead with 4.1 gr W231. I thought the problem was the bullet size since I slugged my Ruger barrel and found it to be 0.3565. I then slugged my new CZ 75 and found it to be 0.3555, I figured my stock of 0.357 bullets would be good in that barrel, but I shot 300 today and got a fair amount of leading all the way down the new barrel.

Should I go up a size to 0.358 and see what that does.

Still have about 3.5 pounds of W231 and can't really afford to buy Jacketed (if I could even find them right now).

Any suggestions?

bds
January 28, 2013, 12:53 AM
Dardas .357" 125 gr RN lead with 4.1 gr W231.

slugged my Ruger barrel ... 0.3565"
slugged my new CZ 75 ... 0.3555"

I figured ... 0.357 bullets would be good in that barrel, but I shot 300 today and got a fair amount of leading all the way down the new barrel.

Should I go up a size to 0.358 and see what that does.
I would recommend you try decreasing the powder charge first before trying larger diameter bullets.

When I initially conducted my load testing for Missouri 125 gr lead RN sized at .356" and W231/HP-38, I referenced current Hodgdon load data (as I usually do) for LCN (Lead Cone Nose) bullet and tested 4.2 - 4.4 gr. I got full-length leading in the .355"-.356" groove diameter Lone Wolf barrels.

Current Hodgdon load data (http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp)
125 gr LCN W231/HP-38 Diameter .356" OAL 1.125" Start 3.9 gr (1009 fps) 25,700 CUP - Max 4.4 gr (1086 fps) 31,200 CUP


When I checked Lyman #49 Reloading Handbook, it showed start/max charges of 3.0 - 4.1 gr of W231 for 120 gr lead RN.

1999-2005 Winchester load data (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=159609&stc=1&d=1329800605) showed start/max charges of 3.3 - 4.0 gr for 124 gr Lead RN (Don't worry about using 124 gr load data for 125 gr bullets as most lead bullets will vary by 1.0+ gr bullet-to-bullet and up to 3-5+ gr for heavier bullets).

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=176515&stc=1&d=1356273892


I redid my powder workup from 3.5 - 4.0 gr and leading decreased to a minimal smear near the chamber end of the barrel. I ended up using 3.8 - 4.0 gr of W231/HP-38.

I also use Dardas 125 gr Lead RN sized at .356" (which has the step down from the bearing surface of the bullet base unlike the shorter, more rounder 124 gr LRN due to faster start of rifling/shorter leade in my new Lone Wolf conversion barrel for Glock 23 with .355" groove diameter). With 3.8 - 4.0 gr of W231/HP-38 at 1.130" OAL, I am getting "zero" leading in the barrel - not even lead smearing near the chamber end of the barrel.

Thompsoncustom
January 28, 2013, 05:34 AM
Loading Dardas .357 125 gr RN lead with 4.1 gr W231. I thought the problem was the bullet size since I slugged my Ruger barrel and found it to be 0.3565. I then slugged my new CZ 75 and found it to be 0.3555, I figured my stock of 0.357 bullets would be good in that barrel, but I shot 300 today and got a fair amount of leading all the way down the new barrel.

Should I go up a size to 0.358 and see what that does.

Still have about 3.5 pounds of W231 and can't really afford to buy Jacketed (if I could even find them right now).

Any suggestions?

I to reload 9mm and have CZ 75b. Now there is probably only one of two things going on. Since you know your 75b slugs at .3555 (which is the same as mine) you shouldn't have to have a bullet over .357 I run mine at .3565.

Now have you pull a bullet after you are completely done reloading it? A lot of times bullets will get undersized when being pushed into the case. Your not using the Lee Factory crimp die are you? Do you know the hardness of these bullets?

The other thing if your fix is good(which fit is the more likely cause) is the lube. What are you using?

I'm guessing that you bullet is being undersized just a little and when you use a charge that has some force behind it your expanding the rear of the bullet closing the gap and stopping the gas cutting.

You should be able to run 500rds of lead through that CZ without a spot of leading once you get things figured out.

dragon813gt
January 28, 2013, 10:13 AM
Pull a bullet and measure it. Like said in the post above it could be getting swaged down from not properly expanding the case. And if you're using a FCD, stop.

I know you said it worked fine with Unique. That powder has a different burn characteristic which could have been covering up things that were off before. Whatever you decide to do, only change one thing at a time.


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shane8168
January 30, 2013, 07:46 PM
I to reload 9mm and have CZ 75b. Now there is probably only one of two things going on. Since you know your 75b slugs at .3555 (which is the same as mine) you shouldn't have to have a bullet over .357 I run mine at .3565.

Now have you pull a bullet after you are completely done reloading it? A lot of times bullets will get undersized when being pushed into the case. Your not using the Lee Factory crimp die are you? Do you know the hardness of these bullets?

The other thing if your fix is good(which fit is the more likely cause) is the lube. What are you using?

I'm guessing that you bullet is being undersized just a little and when you use a charge that has some force behind it your expanding the rear of the bullet closing the gap and stopping the gas cutting.

You should be able to run 500rds of lead through that CZ without a spot of leading once you get things figured out.


Thompson, I looked up the Dardas bullets and he advertises them at a 16 on the hardness scale so imagine from dealing with Matt that he is EXACTLY dead on with that number.

I pulled five loaded bullets last night and every one of them measures 0.357 just like when they came out of the box.

Also shot about 135 rounds and then cleaned out some lead...

I don't own or use a FCD and from my measurements am not crimping anything into my bullets.

Thompsoncustom
January 30, 2013, 08:54 PM
Well if your pulling loaded bullets and they are coming out to .357 then crimping shouldn't be causing any problems.

Now I'm just guessing but I thinking it's probably a mix between the hardness of the bullet and probably the hard lube. I'm assuming since it's a commercial caster they use a pretty hard lube for shipping. softer bullets and lubes work better at slower speeds.

But without casting your own bullets that might be hard to test. You can soft your bullets and relube them but it's really not worth the work.

Like I said I'm just guessing at this point maybe hit up the cast boolits forum, they should have the best idea's at what's causing your problems.

Thompsoncustom
February 7, 2013, 06:00 PM
Here is a recent post from one of the mods, well 2010 so a little old.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6232577&postcount=7

Have you had any luck? I'd gladly send you a small amount of my cast bullets sized and lubed for you to test out. That would give you an idea if maybe the bullet hardness or the lube is the problem.

dpote
February 7, 2013, 07:21 PM
The majority of my shooting is with lead, and sometimes I get leading.
I use Hoppe's Elite to clean with and it does well with lead fouling.
If the fouling is excessive, I use a Lewis Lead Remover.

How does a Factory Crimp Die (FCD) contribute to lead fouling?

Dave

dragon813gt
February 7, 2013, 07:56 PM
How does a Factory Crimp Die (FCD) contribute to lead fouling?

Dave

Depending on the size of the lead bullets the carbide ring in the FCD can swage down the bullet. If you shoot a really fat bullet, like .360 for a 357. And your barrel legitametly needs that .360. If the FCD swages it down to under .360 the bullet will be to small. Fit it king with lead bullets. The FCD causes more problems then it fixes when it comes to shooting cast bullets. This is an argument that goes back and forth with one side saying don't worry and the other saying it's the worse invention ever. My FCD swages them down to small of a diameter for my Marlin.




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