lets tax ammo


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40 rod
January 27, 2013, 12:56 AM
I suggest we propose an excise tax on ammo - 10 cents a round centerfire, a nickel a primer, a penny each for rimfire or purcussion caps. half the procedes to go to school security the other half to promoting shooting ranges and firearms instruction. at least it will give folks something to argue about besides hi-cap mags and assault weapons.

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splithoof
January 27, 2013, 01:06 AM
You may go ahead and pay your own tax, on your way back to England!

Ragnar Danneskjold
January 27, 2013, 01:08 AM
Stop trying to take what I have earned to pay for you desires.

Rob1109
January 27, 2013, 01:09 AM
Do you really think that is where the people we elected would spend that tax?

40 rod
January 27, 2013, 01:12 AM
The only time I have seen England was from a airplane on the way to Iraq.

pty101
January 27, 2013, 01:16 AM
If you feel the need, you can personally donate money to such a cause. Like the NRA for gun safety and education, which many here already do. But, the tax is horrible idea. A tax, especially at that high, once implemented would used against the 2A. All an anti congress would have to do is raise the taxes so high it would unaffordable to Americans and therefore destroying our RKBA.

r1derbike
January 27, 2013, 01:18 AM
OK. You pay my share of the tax and donate it to the NRA-ILA cause.

2ifbyC
January 27, 2013, 01:23 AM
I'll agree to that tax when Congress pays a tax on every lie they state. If they pay that tax, the ammo tax offer will be chump change in comparison.

40 rod
January 27, 2013, 01:26 AM
I didn't expect it was a popular idea. but once a tax base is started the politicians will not want it to go away.

jbkebert
January 27, 2013, 01:29 AM
Its funny we already pay a excise tax of ammo. It is called the Pittman/Robertson fund. This excise tax goes to wildlife habitat and education as well as other things to benefit animals. Now with all of the ammo sales over the past several years you would think monies would be plentiful. Yet most state fish and game and outdoor education agencies have not seen much of this excess.

I have a very strong hunch that the same would take place with your proposed tax. It would get lost along its merry way to the intended place.

digsigs226
January 27, 2013, 01:30 AM
I thank you for your presumed service, but this is a bad idea man.

I pay far to much of my hard earned paycheck to our bloated, ever expanding government as it is. The majority of which will inevitably go towards entitlements.

Want to support gun safety and education? Donate to the NRA or like groups on your own accord.

I don't personally think armed security in schools is a good answer for this country either, as it is far to expensive to be a realistic option for most districts. Instead, I support allowing teachers who are licensed concealed carry permit holders to carry in the classroom in order to able to defend themselves and their students. My guess is that at least a handful of teachers in most districts would be open to exercising this right.

At least it will give folks something to argue about besides hi-cap mags and assault weapons.

I don't understand why many insist we need to give up any ground here. Let the anti's stew in there own emotional reactions, the rest of us will use logic.

BHP FAN
January 27, 2013, 01:30 AM
''once a tax base is started the politicians will not want it to go away''

that's why it's not a popular notion. I say we dump their tea in the harbor...

40 rod
January 27, 2013, 01:35 AM
I agree with jbkbert. only a fool expects all of your taxes to be well spent , thats not the point. but it might be a good distraction from the current debate.

4v50 Gary
January 27, 2013, 01:37 AM
It would distract no one. They would endorse it and then proceed with their efforts to ban guns or magazines anyway. The effect of such a tax would make shooting cost prohibitive for the poor or the middle class. Only the rich could afford to shoot then. Thanks for reminding us that we're peasants.

Ignition Override
January 27, 2013, 01:37 AM
What effect will any such new taxes have on psychos and career criminals?

I thank you for your service, but there are other ways to contribute money which are not punitive for law-abiding US citizens.

Notice, just one little bite at a time, and one day our gun regulations will be as severe as those of the Aussies, British and most Europeans etc.
The Germans must attend several classes, and acquire the "***zeugnis" or such, and pay money for The Privilege.

'Guerrilla warfare', so to speak, against guns doesn't expect one sudden Blitzkrieg victory.
As you are well aware, it is a long-term process by which the public doesn't really notice the final result.

DurangoKid
January 27, 2013, 01:38 AM
Pittman Robertson funds are also used shooting range const.:)

splithoof
January 27, 2013, 01:42 AM
If I want distraction, I can go down to the beach and watch the ladies. You can run for office in California; I'm sure you will be elected.

40 rod
January 27, 2013, 01:44 AM
Some times you have to throw a bone to get the dogs to quit barking.

12131
January 27, 2013, 01:47 AM
Some times you have to throw a bone to get the dogs to quit barking.
Rabid dogs will never quit.

2ifbyC
January 27, 2013, 01:48 AM
Some times you have to throw a bone to get the dogs to quit barking.

Once the bone gets eaten, does the dog get hungry again?

bigfatdave
January 27, 2013, 01:49 AM
Some times you have to throw a bone to get the dogs to quit barking. That line of thought has resulted in a steady erosion of rights.

No more compromises, NFA'34, GCA'68, the brady bill, the former AWB, various state AWB's ... all of those were "compromises" or "throwing them a bone".
They come back for more, NO MORE COMPROMISE.

Look at NY state for where "compromise" gets you in the long run.

40 rod
January 27, 2013, 01:52 AM
If you toss a big enough bone they choke.

BHP FAN
January 27, 2013, 01:53 AM
The problem is that we've thrown them so many bones we have almost no spine left....really, I know where you're coming from, it's natural to want to be ''reasonable'', but they are not reasonable. it's all about creeping incrementalisim.

chris in va
January 27, 2013, 01:59 AM
I suggest we propose an excise tax on ammo - 10 cents a round centerfire, a nickel a primer, a penny each for rimfire or purcussion caps. half the procedes to go to school security the other half to promoting shooting ranges and firearms instruction. at least it will give folks something to argue about besides hi-cap mags and assault weapons.

Let us educate you a bit about the situation. The government does not care about school safety, mag limits, or whatever excuse comes down the pike this week.

They ultimately would love nothing more than to disarm American citizens. Completely. Think about it, what country in the world encourages their citizens to be fully armed? Even Swizerland told their aux civilian military members to turn in their Sig's.

That's why our RKBA is so unique and we must preserve it with all our muster.

Look at NY state for where "compromise" gets you in the long run.

Exactly.

2ifbyC
January 27, 2013, 02:00 AM
If you toss a big enough bone they choke.

So now you are pulling out the old gag line.:rolleyes:

40 rod
January 27, 2013, 02:03 AM
Thank you all for your responses .

DAP90
January 27, 2013, 02:05 AM
Let’s assume we (civilians) shoot a billion center fire rounds per year in the U.S. I have no idea how many we shoot on average but that sounds like a lot to me on an annual basis.

Well golly, that would be 100 million in tax money collected at $.10/round. Half goes to security – so that’s 50 million. Let’s assume a guard makes 50K between salary and benefit costs. So, we can hire 1,000 guards. There are something like 130,000 K-12 schools in the U.S., so we’re a bit short.

On top of that, I doubt an extra $15 in expenses would dissuade a mass shooter who doesn’t plan to live long enough to have to pay the credit card bill.

Let’s not forget either that once you open that door it becomes a way to effectively ban guns by simply continuing to raise that tax until nobody can buy ammo. That has actually already been proposed so I don’t think advocating an anti tactic is a sound decision on our part.

Dr.Rob
January 27, 2013, 02:06 AM
Ammunition and firearms are already the subject of excise taxes, the taxes go primarily to wildlife conservation programs.

blindhari
January 27, 2013, 02:06 AM
The bone you are throwing to the dog, money, has been called "Danegeld" in the past. Probelm is more Danes show up and keep demanding more geld.

blindhari

wojownik
January 27, 2013, 02:08 AM
Ammunition and firearms are already the subject of excise taxes, the taxes go primarily to wildlife conservation programs.
^ this.

Aside from the fact that ammo is already taxed, do you really think it would stop at your suggested 10cents per round?

We are already overtaxed. For every dollar we earn, we pay about 43 cents of it in taxes to pay for an already bloated government and military.

And the suggestion that this tax would pay for school security really means that some Federal agency would set up yet another bureaucracy to administer a program nationally that would fund even more bureaucratic expansion to run school security at the state and local level. So, for every 10 cents per round how much would really go to school security. A nickle? A penny?

So, pardon me, but I think I'm already paying more than enough in taxes, fees and surcharges just to go about my daily business.

- I earn money, and pay considerable income taxes, social security taxes, and Medicare taxes.
- When I buy ammo or a firearm, I already pay sales tax to the state and county. Oh, plus a little surcharge to the state police for the background check.
- The car I drive to the range with required me to pay the state and county for a title, and the state and county for registration, plus annual inspections. And not to mention I paid a fee for a driver's license.
- When I drive to the range, most times I pay a toll tax.
- When I gasoline for the trip to the range, I pay up to 100% tax to the state for it.
- Oh, and when I call my wife on the way back from the range, yeah, pay federal, state, county, and city taxes on that cell phone.

How about we shrink some Federal agency in half ... say TSA, or even the Dept of Homeland Security overall ... and use those savings to pass down to local jurisdictions to properly conduct public safety.

stickhauler
January 27, 2013, 02:16 AM
Yeah, that would work about as well as the tobacco tax increases they put in place to fund health care for children. They just needed about 26 Million more smokers to actually cover the costs of the program.

RetiredUSNChief
January 27, 2013, 02:32 AM
I have a better idea.

How's about we spend the various tax monies we already collect to keep the violent criminals we do catch off the streets in the first place?

A novel concept, I know...

:rolleyes:

Ignition Override
January 27, 2013, 02:47 AM
blindhari's comment about King Alfred's Anglo-Saxon England is quite valid.

Suggesting, or agreeing to an ammo tax would be seen as appeasement and weakness, because that is what it is.
How would that help?

mastiffhound
January 27, 2013, 02:52 AM
This is idiotic, no! I already pay enough taxes! They take 33% of my pay, not including the tax I pay on goods. With all the money they take we still have a national debt the size of the Rockies and when they raise or add more taxes it will do nothing to slow it down. How about this, every polititian take a 50% loss in their pay. Every polititian who has entered a bill for any gun laws should get no pay for the next two years. That is fair and will save enough money for your proposals! See I can propose taxes too. I bet mine would be applauded, approved, and seem less idiotic by more than 80% of U.S. citizens! I also propose a freeze on pregnancy by anyone who is currently on welfare. Why should I pay for another one of your kids, I'm already paying for 4 of them! How about no free cell phones. Cell phones are a want, not a need! If your on welfare and don't work you don't need a cell phone.

I'm tired of this socialistic kumbaya crap. I worked hard for everything I have. Watching somebody wheel two cartloads of food to the register and pay with the food stamp card enrages me! These commie socialists have made it a career to be on welfare. They can't get off their keisters to go to work, but they will sure get off them to go vote! Wouldn't want someone in office who isn't just going to give you free stuff for being a useless money-pit!

How about if you get caught dealing drugs, molesting children, or raping someone you get put to death instead of a prison sentence of 3 to 10 years that taxpayers pay for your food and place to sleep. Look I just saved enough money right there to pay for your proposal. Maybe 80% won't agree with that law but I bet I could get 70% to agree with it. Being rewarded for laziness, idiocy, and committing serious crimes is exactly what is wrong with this country.

Sorry gentlemen, but seeing these types of moronic things makes me want to vomit. I'm tired of paying for moochers and the worthless! Just because you feel like making a concession to satiate the the people who don't even deserve to lick the bottom of my shoe doesn't mean anyone else does. I already pay tax to the city, state, government, and a tax on goods! Tell me this, where is it all going? Just implement my proposals and yours will be paid for and then some. You go right ahead though and pay extra for your ammo, I'm sure the public officials would love to have some more money to blow on 100 year old scotch! Appeasement is never the answer in the face of naked aggression!

BullfrogKen
January 27, 2013, 03:02 AM
You guys all do realize that firearms and ammunition are already taxed at the point of production by a Federal Excise tax, right? Been pointed out here twice already.

A close friend of mine grew up in an inner city in New Jersey. He graduated in 1971. He said they had armed officers assigned to his school even back then.


We've done both these ideas before - taxed ammunition and put armed officers in schools. Most every mid-size or bigger college has an armed force on it.

I still think we can do something like what Montpelier, OH did.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/01/ohio-school-board-votes-arm-janitors/60881/

The White House may be signaling to gun-rights advocates that it will offer funding for police in schools, and more teachers may be signing up for gun training, but this could not be what anyone had in mind, could it? The school board in charge of a large K-12 school in northwestern Ohio has voted unanimously to allow its four custodians to carry firearms. As Montpelier superintendent Jamie Grime told The Toledo Blade, the board sees the move as a way to prevent incidents like the shootings in Newtown, Connecticut: "Sitting back and doing nothing and hoping it doesn't happen to you is just not good policy anymore. There is a need for schools to beef up their security measures," Grimes said. "Having guns in the hands of the right people are not a hindrance. They are a means to protect."

But are custodians "the right people," the kinds of "good guy with a gun" pushed by the NRA in its plan to put armed guards in every school in America? In nearby Lima, Ohio — about two hours away — an editorial letter pushing the idea of arming custodians ran in The Lima News on Tuesday. Loyd Harnishfeger pointed out the idea:


Why the custodian? The choice is obvious. First, they do not have a classroom full of children as their first responsibility as teachers do. Secondly, they are free to roam the halls and have the keys necessary should the need arise to enter a locked down room or area. Thirdly, unlike the administrators, they are not needed for quick decisions regarding evacuation, coordination with first responders, etc.

Resist Evil
January 27, 2013, 03:11 AM
The tax proposed is equivalent to paying protection money. Just say no.

sonick808
January 27, 2013, 03:26 AM
*** ?? no! no way!

bigfatdave
January 27, 2013, 04:17 AM
I have a better idea.
How's about we spend the various tax monies we already collect to keep the violent criminals we do catch off the streets in the first place?

I applaud this idea and will vote for you in the next election, Chief.

Skylerbone
January 27, 2013, 04:35 AM
I was drawn to the title of this thread and, on reading the OP, felt the opening salvo had been fired. From the moment I was old enough to realize that the price tag on an item was not the actual price I have disliked taxes. From the moment I realized that property taxes would prevent me from ever truly owning my house and land I have hated taxes.

To read about a fellow shooter proposing even higher taxes nearly boils my blood. That the proposal comes as some misguided peace offering to those seeking to disarm the entirety of our citizenry is dumbfounding.

If I could impart a bit of knowledge on every person living I would simply point out that those persons holding power and authority who seek socialism don't do so for the purported benefit of all individuals. Any right or freedom of an individual nature are in fact antithetical to a socialist State.

What does that mean to you and me? It means no God. No God means no sanctity in life itself and no value for the individual. There are only two types of people who would promote such an oppressive system: those who seek to oppress for self-benefit and those "true believers" whose intentions, good or otherwise, would pave that road to hell.

The long and short of why giving in to any infringement can never satisfy those calling for it is that they disagree with the premise. If you agree you're not really endowed with that right they have already won. How can any tax on a Constitutional Right be considered acceptable?

RetiredUSNChief
January 27, 2013, 07:52 AM
I applaud this idea and will vote for you in the next election, Chief.

Man, the changes I'D like to make if I had the power and authority!

Don't get me started...we'll go WAY off topic!

:evil::evil:

flatlander937
January 27, 2013, 08:21 AM
agree with jbkbert. only a fool expects all of your taxes to be well spent , thats not the point. but it might be a good distraction from the current debate.

YOU are the only fool to think an ammo tax will "distract" them.

Name ONE time EVER where the government has placed a tax/law/infringement on ANYTHING firearm related... and then stopped there.


By the way from a very quick review of your posts, you reload and you shoot black powder. Way to throw everyone else under the bus.






:cuss:

effengee
January 27, 2013, 08:25 AM
Make sure you re-read that part where it states: "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

LNK
January 27, 2013, 08:29 AM
You are kidding right?

LNK

P.S. Sorry mods, I know, not very High Road...I will take my punishment.

JohnM
January 27, 2013, 08:31 AM
Let's lynch people who keep proposing more taxes!

Fremmer
January 27, 2013, 08:55 AM
NO NEW GUN CONTROL. Folks, just keep telling them NO.

Patrice
January 27, 2013, 09:00 AM
Read the 2nd again, but this time, read it slowly...
Make sure you re-read that part where it states: "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
__________________

Hhmmm....Yes, when throwing out hypothetical bones for political debate---try not to throw out what would be clear violation of the US Constitution.

If the debate is to recommend amending the Constitution to repeal the 2nd Amendment---Say so. Fly your colors high & proud, so we'll know with whom & with what we're dealing.--Patrice

Walkalong
January 27, 2013, 09:21 AM
The problem with targeting certain goods and services with a tax is shaky ground at best. The power to tax is the power to destroy. What at first may seem innocuous (It's for school safety) and reasonable (10%) soon becomes 15%, then 20%, then 50%, then 300 % (As has been proposed by the anti gunners), which would effectively kill the sale of ammo. Not to mention the fact that politicians never use funds for the one specific purpose as they should. Next thing you know they are stealing to funds to spend on other things. Just look at Social Security. By law it was never supposed to be used for anything else, but the politicians stole it and spent it years ago. Instead of a separate account making interest for SS as intended, it is gone and we borrow money to meet the payments our elderly have coming for all the investment they paid in over the years. Forced investment paid to the government please remember.

Hoppy
January 27, 2013, 09:33 AM
Your majesty, I see you're setting up the guillotine... Let me get my level!

wooly bugger
January 27, 2013, 09:44 AM
Probably a troll, but I'll bite.

Let's limit magazine capacity. 15 sounds good. Oh wait, let's go to 10. Cuomo just went to 7. NJ is proposing 5....

You see where this goes. Next big tragedy, and they'll propose doubling the tax. People have already proposed prohibitive taxes on ammo to reduce availability. Why open the door?

meanmrmustard
January 27, 2013, 09:45 AM
Some times you have to throw a bone to get the dogs to quit barking.
Sometimes the dog has to be put down.

CTPhil
January 27, 2013, 09:47 AM
I object on different grounds. If we accept a tax on ammo, isn't that like saying that guns are the problem with school shootings? And isn't school safety everyone's problem? Why would responsible gun owners be singled out to pay for something that every taxpayer has a stake in?

Queen_of_Thunder
January 27, 2013, 10:01 AM
I suggest we propose an excise tax on ammo - 10 cents a round centerfire, a nickel a primer, a penny each for rimfire or purcussion caps. half the procedes to go to school security the other half to promoting shooting ranges and firearms instruction. at least it will give folks something to argue about besides hi-cap mags and assault weapons.
I pay nearly 20% in taxes already on ammo. NO to the OP and their suggestion.

Where are thd troll police when you need them.

RetiredUSNChief
January 27, 2013, 10:01 AM
I object on different grounds. If we accept a tax on ammo, isn't that like saying that guns are the problem with school shootings? And isn't school safety everyone's problem? Why would responsible gun owners be singled out to pay for something that every taxpayer has a stake in?

Why?

Think "sin tax".

Prince Yamato
January 27, 2013, 10:53 AM
Let's not.

PRM
January 27, 2013, 11:10 AM
NUTZ... the government gets enough of my money and has intruded in my life enough.

I was once in the midrange-middle class, today, its more like the working poor. Between payroll tax increases, increase in insurance and co-pays, my take home is about $400 less per month than a year ago. Because of Obamacare - prescriptions I was paying $15 a month to get are now $90.

I've had a gut full of government funded programs. The government can't give something to anyone that it doesn't first take from someone else. Agreeing to an ammo tax is like drinking a bottle of laxative - once the crap starts, it's hard to stop.

foghornl
January 27, 2013, 11:15 AM
Not sure if he is still in office or not, but every year California Rep (State Rep, IIRC) Don Perata would introduce the nickle-a-bullet tax bill.

Not a new idea, but still an extremely BAD idea.

beeenbag
January 27, 2013, 11:20 AM
If you toss a big enough bone they choke.
If you have an even larger bone, knock the dang thing in the head and make soup for your self with the bone.

jmorris
January 27, 2013, 11:24 AM
Why ammo? How about moving all money from traffic tickets to fund your ideas?

The tax, tax ,tax mentality has to stop. They can't tax us enough to keep up with how much they can spend.

JRH6856
January 27, 2013, 12:52 PM
When the permanent federal income tax was imposed in 1913, there were 7 brackets ranging from 1% to 7%. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time...to someone.

zorro45
January 27, 2013, 01:06 PM
Don't we already have an excise tax on ammo, being spent on things such as a multimillion dollar prosecution of a whale-watch boat operator who "lied" to Federal investigators about whether or not her crew whistled at a whale?

mrvco
January 27, 2013, 01:33 PM
subject line of this thread should be "tax ammo moar"

black_powder_Rob
January 27, 2013, 01:37 PM
:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: no :cuss: way. There I have said my piece.

SharpsDressedMan
January 27, 2013, 01:49 PM
What is it with the English? We broke away from that tax thing in 1776! Don't you guys get it? The tax on ammo is at 11% right now, same as that on manufactured firearms. Go tax something else. I propose a lid on all taxes. No US citizen shall ever pay more than 50% of their income on ANY and ALL taxes, combined. Income, property, ammo, sales tax, surtaxes, school taxes, levies, etc. The collective governments can get together and SHARE that 50%, but they'll get no more. Let them figure out where to cut and budget what their share of it is! That is all I'm willing to give up. After that, we fight! When it reaches 50%, the taxpayer is exempt of all further taxes. Flat tax, do away with sales taxes: they'll be included in the single tax collection. Hell, think of how many pointless government jobs can be cut if one tax departmemnt does the collection and distribution to the respective governments.

ApacheCoTodd
January 27, 2013, 01:53 PM
What a short sighted idea smacking of the plea of the rabbit to the hunter... "Please mister hunter, just take a foot and I'll be on my way, slowly" Gimme a break!

I'll just go ahead and give you your tag line for your campaign...

IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN

22-rimfire
January 27, 2013, 02:22 PM
I suggest we propose an excise tax on ammo - 10 cents a round centerfire, a nickel a primer, a penny each for rimfire or purcussion caps. half the procedes to go to school security the other half to promoting shooting ranges and firearms instruction. at least it will give folks something to argue about besides hi-cap mags and assault weapons.

Let's not. I always notice that it is mostly the new members or members with low post counts that propose such things.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother posting to such threads. Maybe I am experiencing "THR burn out". Sometimes I wonder how you moderators continue to do the moderating.

beeb173
January 27, 2013, 02:25 PM
"Let's not. I always notice that it is mostly the new members or members with low post counts that propose such things."

or maybe it's that this site has a way of chasing away anyone with different opinions.

meanmrmustard
January 27, 2013, 02:29 PM
"Let's not. I always notice that it is mostly the new members or members with low post counts that propose such things."

or maybe it's that this site has a way of chasing away anyone with different opinions.
Well, you're on a firearms themed forum.

We want our ammo cheap, our guns cheaper, our rights left alone.

With all due respect.

easyg
January 27, 2013, 02:30 PM
No!
Such a tax is just another infringement on our Second Amendment.

I'm amazed at how some people are so eager to have their Rights stripped away!

black_powder_Rob
January 27, 2013, 02:33 PM
To beb173

Or maybe we are just tired of seeing all the threads that come along claiming to have a fix to the problem using compromise and capitulation. Sorry I for one am getting tired of this. Glad y'all are trying to find a way to dx things but it is not the tool that needs fixing it is the operators (mental health issues) that need fixing.

black_powder_Rob
January 27, 2013, 02:35 PM
Need a "like" button for meanmrmustard's comment!

callotk
January 27, 2013, 02:42 PM
You know where that idea can go!!!!!!!!!

BullfrogKen
January 27, 2013, 02:48 PM
or maybe it's that this site has a way of chasing away anyone with different opinions.

Well, you're on a firearms themed forum.


Echo chambers do make for boring conversations.

Tob
January 27, 2013, 03:07 PM
The Government has for some time believed if they support things financially, they can write the rules.

Typical bullying.

If we allow them to tax it, they will then control it.

The argument that they use funds unwisely isn't even the issue.

BullfrogKen
January 27, 2013, 03:09 PM
I think we've had enough.

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