[Randalsan]

I have seen threads on loading 158 GR LSWC but I can't seem to find solid data for loading .357 MBC LSWC 158 GR using W296 with Magnum primers.
I wanted to ask and get feed back from those of you that use this specific combination combination of bullet, powder and primer. Please those of you that actually shoot this combination, please share your recipes and chrono data if you have it?

Thanks in advance!
Randal

[bds]

Welcome to THR.

1999 Winchester load data (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=159609&stc=1&d=1329800605) has 158 gr lead load using W296.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=178515&stc=1&d=1359298645


Current Hodgdon load data (http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp) for jacketed bullet
158 gr HDY XTP W296 OAL 1.580" Start 15.0 gr (1418 fps) 28,600 CUP - Max 16.7 gr (1591 fps) 40,700 CUP

[Randalsan]

Thanks!

I reload .45 ACP and 9mm often...screwing with .357 Mag is new to me.

That seems a beefy load...will try 14 gr of 296 with Mag primer...LSWC MBC.

I bet I will be chore boying that barrel.
LOL

Thanks

[Randalsan]

So that quoted OAL is what I should use? I got caliper but no guage for .357

[murf]

no, crimp in the crimp groove. seat the bullet to just below the top of the groove, first, then crimp (two separate steps).

murf

[Randalsan]

ROGER THAT!!! LOL...I forgot about the idiot crimp on there....sorry...I am a Magnum noobie....Yes of course...use the darned crimp!! LOL.

Thanks you guys....you know...I have a Lyman manual..heck I never open that thing...it just seems to have loads for what they want you to buy ..these forums are a gold mine! And you guys are the heavy nuggets!

Nugget...that just don't sound right huh?

[Randalsan]

I use Lee dies and press...will tinker with the FCD and see if that does the crimp for me.

I will give back feedback when I get to making a batch.


Maybe even chrono some of my loads and share.

Thanks again!

[nitesite]

I try to avoid using the Lee FCD on lead (even hard cast) bullets.

The seating die, when used in two separate stages does a much better job and keeps the bullet at the designed diameter within the case.

[bds]

I already checked Lyman #49 before posting.

No W296 loads for .357 Mag in Lyman #49. :(



I try to avoid using the Lee FCD on lead (even hard cast) bullets.
FCD for revolver bullets with crimp groove is very different than FCD for semi-auto bullets.

Good thread on the use of FCD for revolver bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469815

[Randalsan]

You know...I have been reloading for well over a year now. When I first started, I got a lot of my "pre-purchase" advice from lurking in the forums on here. Just like guns, reloading equipment owners are highly biased to what whey purchased. So finding objective advice was painful. So I just read a lot of the "how to do it" articles and then, when I felt I understood what I needed, I just jumped in and went with Lee products. I am not unhappy at all. I feed my need and save significant money do it. My equipment functions well and I know where I need to improve.
Getting to the Lyman manual: I will not sit here and say reloading manuals are not necessary. But yeah, they seem to be highly biased themselves. Pushing only what they have some reason to push. Yeah I own a Lyman 49th Edition. But for the most part these days, I just scour the forums looking for advice. I reload .45 ACP, 9mm and .308. Now that I am into .357, I find that once again I am looking toward the experience of other re loaders for help. I did check the Lyman, but they only give loads for certain combinations that I don't have.
In this time of Obama Gun Hate Panic, supplies are kinda scarce. Lucky I am well stocked for .308, .45 and 9mm supplies. It took me forever to get the .357 components, and then I paid a higher price. Grafs took a month to send it. Hopefully this panic wears off by the end of summer, when, once again, I will be seeking supplies for some calibers. But I am going to ration my shooting...see how the panic fares. I always check the local Wally world to check the temperature of the panic...right now it's off the scale!!

[Randalsan]

Nitesite,

I am active duty for a couple more years too. Then I let the young guys pick up the duty.

I have used the FCD and I like it. It kinda does a nice QC on my other rounds. Never really applied it for "sinking" the mouth into groves. I will bear in mind what you said. Yes.....don't want it squashing the bullet down in dia. , I will experiment and if I have to, will follow your lead. I just like the idea of setting a die and forgetting about it. Of course I caliper my rounds periodically each session.

A lot of people bash the FCD, but I like it. I has caught a few of my oopsies.

[rogn]

Randalsan, WW296 is reputed to be the same powder as H110. Hodgdon's data manual seems to support this 100%. I heartily recommend you get one of these manuals- it covers Hogdon, WW and IMR powders , plus its cheap. You will have to use a good crimp w/ these slow ball powders especially in cold weather. Second, dont reduce the loads , especially below any powder manufacturers published data, squibs or very erratic loads will tend to result. If you get a squib, stop and check the barrel for obstructions. Oh, Hogdons data is also available on line.

[Randalsan]

BDS...

GREAT THREAD on crimping !!

For sure!

Thanks guy!

[Randalsan]

Thanks Rog...I will cross ref the 110 data....and look into getting that manual...if cheap enough I will buy. Um...you are right tho...I can just print the formulas I want. But honestly tho, once I find a recipe I like...I log it and never look back...unless I change powders. If I change primers I just chrono and adjust...if necessary.

[Maj Dad]

Randalsan,
Make sure your MBC boolits are 15 BHN or better (their standard hard alloy is 18). I tried 12 BHN cowboy 250s in my USRA SAA 45 colt & got horrible leading with all loads. I loaded some MBC 225 18 BHN SWCs & they worked like a charm - accuracy is superb & bore is slick & shiny after simple wiping out. I have always used hard cast in my 357s after similar leading some years back (using 296). I also cast my own, so I make sure the alloy will be hard. One thing you can do is drop the boolits from the mould into a 5 gal bucket of water to quench & harden them. I do it religiously for my cast rifle boolits; the magnum pistol may or may not require it, but I do it out of habit & they do not lead...

[GP100man]

With a traditional swc design of 158 never go below 13.0 grs with 296/H-110.

As per Keith at Hodgdons.

I find stisfactory results filling at least 80% of the available case space ,H-110 is meant to be slightly compressed to fully burn but don`t quote me on that one.

It`s not a hard powder to ignite as long as it`s not cold . I actually get better EDs & SDs with standard than magnum.

If midrange loads with lead is what your after there`s other powders suited for the task .

Ball powders work best at max pressures ,lowering pressures will have undesirable effects such as eratic EDs & SDs/accuracy ,unburnt powder kernels to contend with .

[ljnowell]

I have had great results with that same Missouri Bullet loaded over a 14.5gr of 2400. A stout load that lets you know you are shooting a 357 but doesnt lead in any of the 357s I shoot it in. In my wifes 686 it shoots like a laser(of course most loads shoot that well in that gun, lol.)

[Randalsan]

Thanks so much, you folks give good points.

Well as you all know, supplies are slim now. So all I got for .357 is MBC 158 GR LSWC, W296 and Federal Match Magnum Primers.

Gotta make that work.!

Now I got a good amount of W231, Unique and lots of small pistol and large pistol primers...but those are sorta bundled ...I dont wanna get them out of proportion if you know what I mean.

Got a few bricks of .22LR and of course a good amount of 175 grain boat tails and powder to feed em...

I am glad I got what I did when I did...supplies gonna be hard to find in the coming months.

SOOO ANYWAY...yeah...that is why I am trying to work out loads for .357 with w296. I got what I got and really gotta make em work. That steel will sound sexy when that 1500 FPS slug hits it eh?

[Randalsan]

Yeah Maj, its the MBC Boolits...18 BHN ...I gotta sit down and press out a few and break out the chrono...I kinda thinking of starting with 14gr W296 with the Fed Match Mag primer 158 LSWC

[WoodchuckAssassin]

I actually have a nice little pile of these 158 LSWC. I was afraid to use them because I thought that lead coming out of the barrel that fast would cause SERIOUS leading. Am I wrong?

[gamestalker]

I just wanted to reiterate using a good firm crimp and deffinitely don't reduce the charges to below published minimum data. in this respect, H110 and 296 actually burn more consistently with loads at mid to max published data.

GS

[Randalsan]

I have read many say that the barrel will be okay...I guess I will find out....I got chore boys standing by.

[bds]

Leading?

Everything you wanted to know about lead and more (definition, location, cause, prevention, removal), especially for revolver loads - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm


Other articles related to leading:

Bullet alloy and obturation - http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCBAlloyObturation.htm

Bullet alloy selection - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.htm
Magnum revolver loads. The target hardness here is generally something in the range of 12-18 BHN. Achieving this hardness is easy, use the same alloy as described for the standard revolver loads (WW + 2% tin), cast hot and water quench the bullets as they drop from the blocks. According to my LBT hardness tester, these water quenched WW bullets (WQ-WW) has a Brinnell hardness of about 16 and is useful up to about 1700 fps. For loads above 1700 fps, I generally just use linotype (although WW alloy heat treated up to a BHN of over 30 can also be used with excellent results).
Bullet lubrication - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_5_Lubrication.htm

Tested .357 Mag loads - http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLyman358627.htm#357mag
215 gr .357 Mag SW .358" diameter - Winchester 296

Charge - fps - Comments
------------------------
8.5 748 Poor
11.5 1008 Accurate
10.5 959 Very accurate
13.0 1113 Fastest .357 load

[Randalsan]

BDS got that same comments for 158 grain? Just for ref.

[Maj Dad]

I recommend reading everything you can get your hands on. I still am after nearly 45 years of reloading! But at some point, you gotta hook up & jump, fish or cut bait, or dump or get off the pot: load some up, shoot them & see how they did. I don't have leading in my 44 mag or my 357 with hard bullets, nor in my 03s/03-A3s at ~1900 fps. Just shoot it! :D

[WoodchuckAssassin]

bds,

Good information. I didn't know that lead had so many different densities. I can't wait to load'em up and feed the ol' 686!

[Randalsan]

Well I loaded up 100 rounds.
MBC .357 Action Boolits. Powder was W296 at 14.0 Grains. Used Federal Magnum Match primers.

I fired the boolits thru a Rossi 972 with six inch barrel. The revolver is new and I just used the factory setting on the adjustable rear sight.

Chrono registered speeds around the 1100 FPS mark. I had a peak speed on a couple close to 1200 FPS.

Groups were very good at 10 yds when shot standing freehand. About an inch tight. At 25 yards groups were in the 2 inch tight, but I sat down and braced against sandbags. Standing and taking freehand shots at a 4 inch steel plate at 50 yards, I got in some good rewarding "Pling!!!" ...of course I suck at such range when standing...lol.

I did fire most single action. I am not that great of a target shooter.

Basically this is my first try at loading Magnum rounds and I hope to expand to better weapons and jacketed bullets.

In this time of panic buying I am just gonna wait out the panic and shoot mostly 9mm and .45 ACP...which I have a butt ton of.
I have another 900 bootits and fixings for .357, so I can ration my stock and enjoy shooting while the panic buying and shortages continue.

I hope this very basic report helps.

Next I will take pictures and post my experiences loading...and using the Lee FCD for crimps...that thing is awesome!!

Thanks for the advice guys!!!

[Hondo 60]

Randalsan - I curious as to why you'd choose W296, when as you said, you can't find data for it?

Why not choose a powder/bullet for which you CAN find data?

[bds]

Hondo, the OP did find the lead load data for W296 and the 158 gr bullet ... see post #2.

I love happy endings. : D

[Randalsan]

Well pickings were SLIM in this time of senseless panic buying. So I picked a magnum powder that was available.

[Randalsan]

Another thing about why I picked W296. I use a Lyman #55 powder dispenser. I am VERY happy with it. It holds tolerances very well for: BLC(2), W231 and Unique. For it especially loves BLC and W231. For me it is a very important point when I find a powder I can easily dispense with the Lyman. So I figured that W296 would work well, it being a spherical type powder and all. Guess what....the Lyman loves that stuff.

I am happy with the W296...I may try another powder in the future...but for now...I am very happy with my choice. And the more experienced re-loaders out here definitely helped out a bunch!

[Randalsan]

Well being new to Magnum loads and finding quick success on my first load with .357 and MBC..Thanks to all who gave good advice. I just wanted to share my experience with the Lee dies...specifically the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Here is what we start with...cleaned and polished and primed Blazer .357 brass and MBC .357 Action 158 grain lead bullets. 18 hardness.
http://www.randalsmarketplace.com/hostpics/IMAG0085.jpg

After loading 'em up with 14 grains of W296 I seated them just right below the cannelure.
http://www.randalsmarketplace.com/hostpics/IMAG0086.jpg

Next to finish I just set the Lee Factory Crimp Die as per instructions and I got a perfect crimp.
http://www.randalsmarketplace.com/hostpics/IMAG0088.jpg

As reported before...they are on the mild side...average around 1200fps out of a six inch barrel on a Rossi. No leading....in fact a jag and some hoppes cleans up the barrel. Lots of greasy soot, but that too cleans up well. I wetted the forcing cone area wit some rem oil before I left the range...that worked to soften the carbon by the time I got home and got to cleaning up.

I think it is a very nice target round...and seems to be accurate enough...I freehand shot well at 50M to 4 inch steel plates.

Thanks again to those who gave valuable advice!