It's started in NY - Refusing to Register Guns


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usmarine0352_2005
January 27, 2013, 02:13 PM
.

Good.



http://gopthedailydose.com/2013/01/26/the-resistance-begins-new-york-gun-owners-refuse-to-register/



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The Resistance Begins: New York Gun Owners Refuse to Register

Posted on 26 January, 2013 by Amy


“Largest Act of Civil Disobedience in State History”

by Mac Slavo

With emotions running high in the aftermath of the Newtown Sandy Hook shooting, politicians on the State and Federal level have begun introducing legislative actions to curtail access to firearms protected by the Second Amendment. In Missouri, parents may soon be forced to register firearms with their child’s school under threat of criminal penalties. In Massachusetts, another proposal would require storage of semi-automatic rifles at government approved storage depots. And, in the State of New York, congressional representatives have already passed legislation that requires registration of every semi-automatic rifle and reduces maximum magazine capacity to 7 rounds of ammunition, and Governor Cuomo has floated the idea of gun confiscation.

Preparations are already being made for mass resistance.
“I’ve heard from hundreds of people that they’re prepared to defy the law, and that number will be magnified by the thousands, by the tens of thousands, when the registration deadline comes,’’ said President Brian Olesen with American Shooters Supply, among the biggest gun dealers in the state, in an interview with the New York Post.
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Hunterdad
January 27, 2013, 02:43 PM
I'm part of the AR " in" crowd here in Central NY and this is definitely the consensus. I'm not sure my stand on it yet. I'll see what happens with the legal proceedings that are coming down the pike.

Reloadron
January 27, 2013, 02:58 PM
What the hell did Cumo expect? Did he expect tens of thousands of gun owners to just roll over? Cumo is an idiot and an idiot with higher political aspirations than just Governor of NY. Somehow, this whole Sandy Hook thing is beginning to backfire.

Personally I am sick and tired of hearing Sandy Hook ring over and over again as some justification to usurp my rights.

Ron

gbran
January 27, 2013, 02:59 PM
I realize we don't have national registration, but I'll guess somehow, thru some loophole, the feds will give NCIS data to NY and they will know everybody who bought guns that they now ban and require to be registered.

AlexanderA
January 27, 2013, 03:01 PM
All I can say is that talk is cheap. I wouldn't put much stock in these brave words once the adverse consequences become clear. You can refuse to register, fine, but that gun can never be seen in public again.

And another thing: those that talk are not the real ones who will be defying the law, and vice versa. In fact, loudly advertising one's intentions is a good way to put oneself on the radar, to be made an example of.

bds
January 27, 2013, 03:20 PM
I could just picture waves of gun owners filing police reports ...

"Officer, after our range trip we stopped to have lunch/dinner and I must have forgotten to lock the car/truck door. When we came out, all the guns were gone!" ;):D

If/when the Feds try to confiscate, they will simply show the police reports for stolen guns ... what will Cuomo/Obama do then?

floydster
January 27, 2013, 03:25 PM
Paranoia is bad thing.

Smokeyloads

guntech59
January 27, 2013, 03:31 PM
All I can say is that talk is cheap. I wouldn't put much stock in these brave words once the adverse consequences become clear. You can refuse to register, fine, but that gun can never be seen in public again.

And another thing: those that talk are not the real ones who will be defying the law, and vice versa. In fact, loudly advertising one's intentions is a good way to put oneself on the radar, to be made an example of.
So, we should just roll over and comply with illegal laws? I think not.

Most of us "will not comply" folks are capable of reading and comprehending the new law and have made a conscious decision not to obey.

Romeo 33 Delta
January 27, 2013, 03:52 PM
Just an observation. In Europe where the people have a long history of involvement with the "King's Men" they handle things a bit differently than we Ameicans.

When confronted by the King's Men" riding into the village, we Americans tend to run out into the road and, raising our right arms high in the air, extend the middle digit ... and are then surprised when the "Kings Men" react negatively to this display of outright rebellion and disrespect.

Europeans on the other hand, turn out of their houses, clap and cheer as the "King's Men" ride into their village ... much bowing and scraping (remember the scene in The Quiet Man, when the Anglican Bishop is riding out of town and everyone turns out to wave ... even the Catholics?) Then, after the "King's Men" ride around the bend in the road, they all raise their right arms and extend the middle digit and then go on with their lives as they see fit.

What to do in New York? Perhaps, just perhaps the best course of action when it comes to civil disobedience, in the short run anyway, would be to adopt the European model. Just don't comply. No need to throw yourself on the pile of "dead martyrs" just yet. Remember, not everyone opposed to the Crown went "Indian" in Boston Harbor .

shooter_from_show-me
January 27, 2013, 03:56 PM
Personally I am sick and tired of hearing Sandy Hook ring over and over again as some justification to usurp my rights.

Ron

+1,000,000



Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

Rob G
January 27, 2013, 04:03 PM
I realize we don't have national registration, but I'll guess somehow, thru some loophole, the feds will give NCIS data to NY and they will know everybody who bought guns that they now ban and require to be registered.

I don't think the information in question is actually detailed enough for that. Plus it's possible that the people in question no longer have those weapons.

I foresee enough boating accidents in the near future that New Yorkers may soon be able to walk part of the way across the lake to Canada on the hulls of sunken ships. :D

El Mariachi
January 27, 2013, 04:11 PM
Gnu Yawk suddenly makes California seem 'normal'.....

4v50 Gary
January 27, 2013, 04:15 PM
Where laws are immoral, civil disobedience is a moral duty.

Rancher5
January 27, 2013, 04:21 PM
no Government as it stands is rotten

goldie
January 27, 2013, 04:53 PM
After NYC passed their laws banning anything over 5 rds & assault rifles back years ago they did start sending some detectives door to door who bought ar's & the like,which is ok if they werent in posession in the city.Lots of people were keeping their guns at relatives houses in westchester & long island.not sure what became of it,but to go throughout the state & do it would be much harder...

harrygunner
January 27, 2013, 05:30 PM
'Romeo 33 Delta' Your description of what Europeans have to do is exactly why our government was formed as a Constitutional Republic that includes the Bill of Rights.

Here in the U.S., the people need to instill enough fear in the "King's Men" so that they wait until they are around the bend to extend their middle digit.

Barry the Bear
January 27, 2013, 05:30 PM
Civil war 2 sure is happening pretty quickly

littlebluevette
January 27, 2013, 05:34 PM
x 1,000,000 on Post 11 :)

gym
January 27, 2013, 05:43 PM
Did these politicians really think that folks were going to roll over that easily? How many folks are going to give up what took some of them a lifetime to find and collect? Makes no sense to think that people would welcome this with open arms. Thay are in for a hailstorm of backlash.
Cuomo just ruined any chances he had to run for anything when this is done.

PavePusher
January 27, 2013, 05:50 PM
All I can say is that talk is cheap. I wouldn't put much stock in these brave words once the adverse consequences become clear. You can refuse to register, fine, but that gun can never be seen in public again.

And another thing: those that talk are not the real ones who will be defying the law, and vice versa. In fact, loudly advertising one's intentions is a good way to put oneself on the radar, to be made an example of.
Civil Disobedience requires an audience.

Please review your history.

jmace57
January 27, 2013, 06:02 PM
Mr. Rogers said "New York is a good test bed for OBAMA. Think they will go door to door and pick em up? They know who has them legaly."

Best New Yorker magazine cover EVER...this is exactly their attitude about therest of us:

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i390/jmace57/yorker.jpg

gunnutery
January 27, 2013, 06:09 PM
Civil Disobedience requires an audience.

If only a few people register their guns with the state, it'll be publicly known that only a few are registering. I think they have rough estimates of how many "evil semi autos" are in the state. If the registration appears very low, they'll know they have a problem. If they want to go door to door asking people (even if they had the 4473's), well, I suppose they could waste their time to find out that there were lots of boating accidents and private sales outside of the state.

22-rimfire
January 27, 2013, 06:10 PM
I say, do what your heart tells you to do. I am not advocating breaking the law, but people have a duty to stand against tyrannical governments. Our military fights such fights all the time. Why should it be different at home?

medalguy
January 27, 2013, 06:10 PM
Paranoia is bad thing.

You're not paranoid if they really are after you. :scrutiny:

Russ Jackson
January 27, 2013, 06:10 PM
Let them come. Sooner or later it will get down to this. Might as well start in NY and California.

Pete D.
January 27, 2013, 06:20 PM
Maybe you are tired of hearing about it but it did us in for sure.
One problem that we have is that we have nothing as poignant to refer to in order to bolster our position. We were shouting "2nd Amendment" and they were burying dead children.
Pete

xXxplosive
January 27, 2013, 06:23 PM
Hoping they wait until April 19th..............IMO.

meanmrmustard
January 27, 2013, 06:28 PM
They also have that blood on their own hands.

Lack of support for mental health.

Gun free zones.

Ridiculously long response time of the police.

usmarine0352_2005
January 27, 2013, 07:11 PM
Hoping they wait until April 19th..............IMO.


xXxplosive, why?
.

Last Knight
January 27, 2013, 07:24 PM
xXxplosive, why?
.

Google "April 19th 1775," please.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 2

manitouofthehatchie
January 27, 2013, 07:26 PM
The government will spend millions trying to confiscate weapons and millions more on any proposed "buy back" program. Most of the guns (74%) turned in in these buybacks turned out to be stolen. So the crooks got a free "no questions asked" pass to sell their booty. Talk about laughing all the way to the bank! I agree w/ Harry, that's why we had a revolution. To hell with the King's men! Let's spend more money we don't have enforcing laws we don't need...and seeding civil unrest in the process. Paving the way for the enactment of the NDAA and martial law. They've already got a bed ready;)

22-rimfire
January 27, 2013, 07:35 PM
April 19th, The American Revolution has begun.

El Mariachi
January 27, 2013, 07:41 PM
Wonder why they don't just enact this on April 15th?.....

JohnKSa
January 27, 2013, 07:50 PM
Think they will go door to door and pick em up?Ridiculous.

They're not coming for your guns.

At least not in the way people like to think they will.

It's already happened elsewhere, we don't have to guess how it will happen here.

All they have to do is make them illegal and wait. Over time, they'll chip away at the folks who don't turn them in or register their guns. A little at a time, one here, one there, so there's no obvious point at which those who are non-compliant feel like their collective backs are up against the wall and might be spurred to organized resistance.

Someone turns in an enemy, a wife spills the beans during a divorce, someone's kid says the wrong thing at school or at the doctor's office or to a buddy. Somewhere there's a paper trail that turns up a gun that should have been surrendered. Someone has a house fire and the authorities find illegal guns in the ashes. Someone gets careless and gets caught at the range with something he shouldn't own.

They have all the time in the world. Why bother risking lives and resistance by doing a door-to-door? Waiting works just as well if you're not impatient.

They will eventually get them all and with very minor effort.

In the meantime, those non-compliant folks who wouldn't give them up won't be able to rationalize any advantage in keeping their guns. What's the point of having a gun you can't use in self-defense or to hunt, or even to shoot? The only option would be to hide it away and never use it again on penalty of getting caught committing a felony. For all their non-compliance gained them, they might as well have turned them in before the grace period expired and taken the pittance offered.

There's really only one logical "line-in-the-sand" moment, and contrary to popular opinion and oft-repeated slogans, it isn't "when they come for your guns" because that's never going to happen.

Airbrush Artist
January 27, 2013, 08:12 PM
I been practicing throwing Rocks...Them Doodes in the Middle east are pretty good at it..

jamesbeat
January 27, 2013, 08:50 PM
Maybe you are tired of hearing about it but it did us in for sure.
One problem that we have is that we have nothing as poignant to refer to in order to bolster our position. We were shouting "2nd Amendment" and they were burying dead children.
Pete
Problem is, we're all burying dead children.
Sandy Hook ddn't just affect people who don't like guns, it affected everyone.
The difference is that we are smart enough to realize that new gun laws aren't the answer.

Texshooter
January 27, 2013, 08:58 PM
What will truly be funny is when some of the LEOs in Upstate refuse to go along with NYC lies.

DammitBoy
January 27, 2013, 09:08 PM
Canadians were successful in resisting the government mandate to register their firearms until the government just gave up on their expensive boondoggle.

I believe the final number was something like only 13% of gun owners in Canada registering their guns?

So, it's not impossible and no revolution was required.

browningguy
January 27, 2013, 09:10 PM
Most likely there will be a lot of talk, a lot of selling out of state, then just about everyone will register their guns.

JERRY
January 27, 2013, 09:14 PM
Registraitions will be slow but they will happen as more and more folks get in line like they are told.

Face it, nobody is really going to protect their gun rights by an armed rebellion, they will cut away the right little at a time like theyve already done.....look at nyc, look at existing magazine and "aw" bans already complied with.

10mm Mike
January 27, 2013, 09:19 PM
In fact, loudly advertising one's intentions is a good way to put oneself on the radar, to be made an example of.

Which might be their intentions in the first place. A little game of "who will blink first". See if the state actually has the stones to come and try to steal a citizen's property or otherwise invade their privacy unjustly, giving the citizen reason to forcefully resist.

SharpsDressedMan
January 27, 2013, 09:24 PM
Same thing happened in the Soviet Union. You see how that worked out. Only took 70 years to BEGIN to correct things.

browneu
January 27, 2013, 09:31 PM
The bad thing is the gun ends up confiscated either way you go.

You don't register they find it. It goes to the government. You register it and it goes to the government after you die.



Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

ZeSpectre
January 27, 2013, 09:33 PM
Hunterdad Said; I'm part of the AR " in" crowd here in Central NY and this is definitely the consensus. I'm not sure my stand on it yet. <snip>.

I hope this doesn't sound too preachy, but you'd better get sure of your stand and decide what your plan(s) are pretty soon. To quote "After the whistle blows is no time to come up with a game plan".

Reloadron said; What the hell did Cumo expect? Did he expect tens of thousands of gun owners to just roll over?
Yes, having come from the Upstate NY area I can tell you that the boys in Albany look out their window, and see NYC in the distance with a bunch of "flyover" country in between.

ZeSpectre
January 27, 2013, 09:38 PM
manitouofthehatchie said;The government will spend millions trying to confiscate weapons and millions more on any proposed "buy back" program.

Millions of taxpayer dollars...to oppress taxpayers. Nothing like funding our own shackles. Then again, the Gov't can't really dig any deeper into my pockets, there's nothing left in there but lint. (and boy do I wish I was exaggerating)

HorseSoldier
January 27, 2013, 09:39 PM
I hope this doesn't sound too preachy, but you'd better get sure of your stand and decide what your plan(s) are pretty soon. To quote "After the whistle blows is no time to come up with a game plan".


+1. Civil disobedience is an important tool, but it can't be the only tool. Personally, I'd be talking to a lawyer about a class action suit against the state of NY concurrently with any planned acts of civil disobedience.

beatledog7
January 27, 2013, 10:17 PM
Imagine a holiday weekend when the state police are out in force to give speeding tickets, since that's what they do on holiday weekends. Imagine that a huge Internet-driven wave of drivers deciding to all hit the freeway and drive 80mph for a designated five minutes on a Saturday afternoon. Now imagine the state police falling all over themselves trying to ticket everyone. I have a lot of respect for LEOs generally, but this would simply be outside their capacity.

If every NY gun owner simply forgets to comply with Cuomo's dictatorial law (yeah, I know the legislature passed it, but it's still Cuomo's baby), what will the police across NY be able to do about it?

JERRY
January 27, 2013, 10:30 PM
If every NY gun owner simply forgets to comply with Cuomo's dictatorial law (yeah, I know the legislature passed it, but it's still Cuomo's baby), what will the police across NY be able to do about it?


imprison them one at a time.....

KimberUltra
January 27, 2013, 11:20 PM
its really all about securing an election. they might come and actually take all our guns. but chances are they will milk it and act like they are doing something to secure as many elections as possible. the liberals are going to have a huuuge advantage in the next election by telling all the braindead voters that by continuing the battle against guns will keeps their kids safe. who can lose an election with that statement?

jamesbeat
January 27, 2013, 11:56 PM
Nothing would secure leftist votes better than a series of raids on homes, seizing 'illegal assault weapons' from 'dangerous criminals'...

NMPOPS
January 28, 2013, 06:48 AM
Has every one here just given up? Do you really think it is inevitable? Wow! I am ashamed.

evan price
January 28, 2013, 06:56 AM
Imagine a holiday weekend when the state police are out in force to give speeding tickets, since that's what they do on holiday weekends. Imagine that a huge Internet-driven wave of drivers deciding to all hit the freeway and drive 80mph for a designated five minutes on a Saturday afternoon. Now imagine the state police falling all over themselves trying to ticket everyone. I have a lot of respect for LEOs generally, but this would simply be outside their capacity.

From experience- because they do this every few weekends right out front of my house on the busy state route- what they would do is each officer would pull over one or more of the drivers as they felt comfortable.

Out here they have 5-6 cars waiting on the shoulder, a plane in the air (who is also usually running stopwatches on the traffic a mile back from the speed trap, and radioing in which cars in which lanes to check speed with the laser) and one or two motorcycle cops who have laser guns standing on the shoulder. In Ohio the officer needs to make an eduma-cated idea that a car is speeding in order to be able to check speed with the laser- you can't just sit there and flash every car as it goes by...well, in theory anyway.

The motorcycle cop checks speeds with the laser gun, then walks out into traffic and physically points to the car he wants to pull over and gestures for them to do so. When they do, one of the units in a car rolls up to write the citation. If they fail to stop, one of the cars chases them, backed up by the air unit.

If all the units are writing cites, they make the speeders pull over and wait their turn. Some days there are quite a line of people waiting for their chance to pay the state a speed fee.

If no officers are available, they ignore the speeders until one of the officers has a chance to deal with them again. Usually some of the ticketing cars have gotten too far away, and they have to pull a U-turn across the median and backtrack to where the action is.

Assembly line shakedowns.

evan price
January 28, 2013, 06:59 AM
Just remember the Waco incident started out because they were suspected of having illegal weapons and were serving a search warrant.

Coming soon to a New York channel near you- Live at Five, the New York State Police burns down another house!

Apple a Day
January 28, 2013, 07:21 AM
You can refuse to register, fine, but that gun can never be seen in public again.

Exactly how many times have you been at the range and somebody walked up and asked to see your gun's registration? For that matter, how many times have you been carrying a gun and had someone come up and ask to see your permit?

mcdonl
January 28, 2013, 08:01 AM
Exactly how many times have you been at the range and somebody walked up and asked to see your gun's registration? For that matter, how many times have you been carrying a gun and had someone come up and ask to see your permit?

Not apples to apples... Ask it this way... "How many times have you been at ther range with a Full Auto (Or other NFA device) and been asked to show your paperwork?

Big difference. until right now in NY there was no registry and there were no banned (Just restricted) devices. In NY though today, I could see club/range owners asking the question to cover their own butts. New work down there in New York.

Trent
January 28, 2013, 11:30 AM
Where laws are immoral, civil disobedience is a moral duty.

Henry David Thoreau.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.… where the State places those who are not with her, but against her,– the only house in a slave State in which a free man can abide with honor.… Cast your whole vote, not a strip of paper merely, but your whole influence. A minority is powerless while it conforms to the majority; it is not even a minority then; but it is irresistible when it clogs by its whole weight. If the alternative is to keep all just men in prison, or give up war and slavery, the State will not hesitate which to choose. If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible.

HARV6
January 28, 2013, 12:11 PM
So if they claim 40% of gun sales are done without a background check, and those sales do not currently require any form of documentation to change hands, how do you suppose they're going to find 150ish million firearms. They can't take you down for something that was legal at the time you did it. "Sorry officer I sold my firearms when I saw this legislation coming.". No sorry I didn't keep a paper trail because law didn't require it at the time of sale. Do you have a warrant to enter my home? No? Guess you'd better be on your way then.". The logisitcs for trying to find firearms that way are impossible. They've passed laws they can't enforce.

berettaprofessor
January 28, 2013, 12:36 PM
There's really only one logical "line-in-the-sand" moment, and contrary to popular opinion and oft-repeated slogans, it isn't "when they come for your guns" because that's never going to happen.


Okay, I'll bite, JohnSka what is the logical "line-in-the-sand" moment? I'm being dense today.

When you fill out a Form 4473 it is kept forever by the FFL untill he goes out of business.

Not correct. They are required to keep it for 20 years, but can destroy it then. If they go out of business, yes, they must turn the records over to the ATF.

Apple a Day
January 28, 2013, 12:54 PM
Not apples to apples... Ask it this way... "How many times have you been at ther range with a Full Auto (Or other NFA device) and been asked to show your paperwork?

Big difference.
Apples to orchards... the number of full auto guns is a drop in the bucket compared to the ocean of semi-auto guns.

xXxplosive
January 28, 2013, 12:59 PM
NY citizens better act............The World Is Watching.

mcdonl
January 28, 2013, 01:09 PM
Apples to orchards... the number of full auto guns is a drop in the bucket compared to the ocean of semi-auto guns.

Right, but my point is the same. No one would ask this today because there is no registration except for NFA regulated items.

But, were on the same side. I have a rising tode of my own.

Have a good one.

Hit_Factor
January 28, 2013, 01:55 PM
I could just picture waves of gun owners filing police reports ...

"Officer, after our range trip we stopped to have lunch/dinner and I must have forgotten to lock the car/truck door. When we came out, all the guns were gone!" ;):D

If/when the Feds try to confiscate, they will simply show the police reports for stolen guns ... what will Cuomo/Obama do then?

Hopefully you said that in jest. It could lead to charges for filing a false report. In some jurisdictions the penalty is equivalent to the penalty of the reported crime.

HoosierQ
January 28, 2013, 02:53 PM
So, we should just roll over and comply with illegal laws? I think not.

Most of us "will not comply" folks are capable of reading and comprehending the new law and have made a conscious decision not to obey.
But perhaps not capable of reasoning out that making statements on the Internet have no expectation of privacy? And if the gov't is competent enough to hunt you down for owning the gun, they'd be competent enough to read your post and figure out who you are?

If you're going to break a law, whether or not that law is actually constitutional, you might wanna thing twice about announcing your intention to do so on the Internet where anybody can read it.

theautobahn
January 28, 2013, 03:33 PM
Ridiculous.

They're not coming for your guns.

At least not in the way people like to think they will.

It's already happened elsewhere, we don't have to guess how it will happen here.

All they have to do is make them illegal and wait. Over time, they'll chip away at the folks who don't turn them in or register their guns. A little at a time, one here, one there, so there's no obvious point at which those who are non-compliant feel like their collective backs are up against the wall and might be spurred to organized resistance.

Someone turns in an enemy, a wife spills the beans during a divorce, someone's kid says the wrong thing at school or at the doctor's office or to a buddy. Somewhere there's a paper trail that turns up a gun that should have been surrendered. Someone has a house fire and the authorities find illegal guns in the ashes. Someone gets careless and gets caught at the range with something he shouldn't own.

They have all the time in the world. Why bother risking lives and resistance by doing a door-to-door? Waiting works just as well if you're not impatient.

They will eventually get them all and with very minor effort.

In the meantime, those non-compliant folks who wouldn't give them up won't be able to rationalize any advantage in keeping their guns. What's the point of having a gun you can't use in self-defense or to hunt, or even to shoot? The only option would be to hide it away and never use it again on penalty of getting caught committing a felony. For all their non-compliance gained them, they might as well have turned them in before the grace period expired and taken the pittance offered.

There's really only one logical "line-in-the-sand" moment, and contrary to popular opinion and oft-repeated slogans, it isn't "when they come for your guns" because that's never going to happen.

Spot on. This is exactly correct. They'll whittle away at the illegal firearms, there will be no "show of force", because they know exactly what the response will be.

wtr100
January 28, 2013, 03:52 PM
Civil war 2 sure is happening pretty quickly
there will be no war

90% will comply
9% will passivly not comply and hide / burry them (essentialy a misson kill)
1% will loudly make noise and be scooped up at which point 90% of the 9% will comply


BUT if the Do Not Comply really takes hold ... THAT will make for interesting times

Miata Mike
January 28, 2013, 04:17 PM
Kind of looks that way. :confused:

Has every one here just given up? Do you really think it is inevitable? Wow! I am ashamed.
__________________
Perception is reality

Gun Wielding Maniac
January 28, 2013, 04:19 PM
A few hundred thousand New York gun owners marching with their AR's on Albany would end this in a day. Each one drops a bullet on the governers lawn. There's a "political statement".

Let them try to stop it...

Our ancestors had the sand. Why dont we?

evan price
January 28, 2013, 06:05 PM
When yoy buy a gun from an ffl the info on rhe 4473 gets transferred to the ffls bound book with the serial number and description of the gun. So yes it may not be overt registration but atf can examine or copy bound books and when an ffl goes under the bound book gets sent to atf.
Any gun bought at an ffl is registered and traceable.

HoosierQ
January 28, 2013, 06:24 PM
So a self-professed "Gun Wielding Maniac" wants to drop bullets on the governors lawn? Helpful, very helpful. Constructive too. We're a a lock to win hands down now that we've got this idea on the table...from "Gun Wielding Maniac"! I can see the panic buying and the ammo hoarding dying down already.

jrmiddleton425
January 28, 2013, 06:36 PM
Let's be honest...right now you just about cannot buy a gun at retail in NYS. Retailers are sold out. Does Cuomo really think that people are buying up everything that goes "bang," and the things it takes to make them go "bang," just to turn them all in?

Fifty-two of the 58 NYS county sheriffs have voiced formal opposition to the law...they probably will not enforce it.

Finally, let's suppose the police decide to make a "contact" with every person they think may have a banned gun. This is just to drive out to your house, knock on your door, and give you a friendly reminder that you have until February 15th, 2014 to register your guns. Let's break that cost down:

Man-hours to compile a contact list.
Assume 5 minutes per contact. Driving time and gas money for two officers to contact maybe 10 households per hour.

It would work out to $300 per contact. I got this figure from a retired police officer. Let's assume 300,000 people own affected guns. That's 90 MILLION dollars.

There isn't that much money in this state to waste on that. And there will be even less without people buying guns, hunting licences, etc. Remington, Kimber, CZ/Dan Wesson, and Henry all have intentions of leaving NYS.

This gun control law is an economic non-starter. It will just go away in a year or two when they realize it will bankrupt the state.

pseudonymity
January 28, 2013, 06:56 PM
Just remember the Waco incident started out because they were suspected of having illegal weapons and were serving a search warrant.

Coming soon to a New York channel near you- Live at Five, the New York State Police burns down another house!

This is my greatest fear. So if I register a half dozen or so "assault weapons", how exactly do you think LE will act if they need to contact me for any legitimate reason? When SWAT teams are doing 3am no-knock entries to collect people under warrant for non-violent offenses, what treatment will my family get? Should my children have to cower in their home with the corpse of their mother with half of her head missing as Vicki Weaver's children did?

There will be fire and blood as a result of these laws, but it will be the innocents suffering the most. A registration and a bad word regarding your character will set the stage for the next Ruby Ridge, Waco or MOVE scenario, right here close to home for all of us in NY.

InkEd
January 28, 2013, 07:30 PM
Gun registration is not a big deal! It worked out just fine for all those nice Jewish people in the 1940s. Oh wait...

Well... At least afterwards they were given a place to live in peace where nobody will bother them again.

What? You don't say....

[sarcasm off]

Gun Wielding Maniac
January 28, 2013, 09:35 PM
So a self-professed "Gun Wielding Maniac" wants to drop bullets on the governors lawn? Helpful, very helpful. Constructive too. We're a a lock to win hands down now that we've got this idea on the table...from "Gun Wielding Maniac"! I can see the panic buying and the ammo hoarding dying down already.

Yeah. Why not? It clearly demonstrates:
A) Solidarity
B) Non-violent civil disobediance
C) Guts

It beats the pants off of "hiding in the closet" until you get old and die or your estranged Ex-Wife turns you into the Po-Po. There are 80 million + gun owners in this country. That's one POWERFUL minority, if only we'd feel our roots. Too many pussy-whipped people though are scared to do what our ancestors once did, in the civil rights movement, and before that, the revolution. They risked arrest...and a hell of a lot worse.

As far as my name goes, I'm about the safest, sanest guy you'll ever meet.

dfsixstring
January 28, 2013, 09:54 PM
New York is a good test bed for OBAMA. Think they will go door to door and pick em up? They know who has them legaly.

Well, isn't that what they did in Australia? There were a lot of people killed during that time. Otherwise law-abiding citizens immediately deemed criminals and treated as such.


Dfsixstring
SR9c
LCP
RST4S

DammitBoy
January 28, 2013, 09:56 PM
Canadians were successful in resisting the government mandate to register their firearms until the government just gave up on their expensive boondoggle.

I believe the final number was something like only 13% of gun owners in Canada registering their guns?

So, it's not impossible and no revolution was required.

JohnKSa
January 28, 2013, 10:18 PM
Okay, I'll bite, JohnSka what is the logical "line-in-the-sand" moment? I'm being dense today.As soon as the law's passage became public the populace should have visited the legislature en masse and set things right.

Clearly there wasn't sufficient popular support/outrage for such an action.JohnSka could care less about NY...Nothing could be farther from the truth. Barring some truly spectacular turn of the tide, it's just a matter of time before this kind of thing spreads.

DAP90
January 28, 2013, 11:07 PM
90% will comply
9% will passivly not comply and hide / burry them (essentialy a misson kill)
1% will loudly make noise and be scooped up at which point 90% of the 9% will comply

BUT if the Do Not Comply really takes hold ... THAT will make for interesting times

People won’t comply. Historically they never have and now, with everyone all riled up, an active online gun community sharing info and coordinating, there’s no chance a registration yields a 90% compliance rate.

See this article for more on that.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/22/gun-restrictions-have-always-bred-defian

NYH1
January 29, 2013, 01:29 AM
We've been fishin in New Yorkistan all our lives (my wife lived in AZ for a while when she was younger). . . . .time to cut bait and find another state to fish in. I just hope we can get out of New Yorkistan before cuomo can figure out a way to actually confiscate any of our firearms.

I understand completely what others (especially non-NYer's) are saying about fighting back. NYS has just over 19 million people in it. About 13 million of those people live in the NYC metro/Long Island/down state area. That leaves the rest of us Up Starter's to about 6 million people. NYC runs New Yorkistan in every way possible. They love cuomo and his group because they give them anything they want and tell them everything they want to hear. 95% of everything that comes out of Albany (the State Capital) is for NYC/down state. That's where most of the people are from and that's where most of our politions are from.

A lot of Republicans from NYS, especially the down state Republicans are more liberal then a lot of Democrats from down south or out west. Remember it was NY Republican Governor George Pataki's idea to pass the NYS law mirroring the '94 AWB back in '98 or so. He did so like he was a hero, doing us a favor. The NRA and S.C.O.P.E. and others are getting a lawsuit(s) together. If NYer's are lucky, a court will do something. I don't think they'll do much though. I see the magazine capacity maybe going back up to 10 rounds with no "pre-ban" mags. allowed at all, AR type rifles being allowed to be sold again to some extent but being very regulated and registered with nothing more then a pistol grip if we're lucky. I really hope they don't go the way of bullet buttons. NY is not going to get away from registering AR type rifles though.

There has been registration on handguns ever since I can remember. I have a concealed carry pistol permit here in NY. Every pistol I have is on my pistol permit, make, model, ser. num., cal and bar. length. It's like that for non-carry pistol permits too. If you own a pistol in NYS it's on your permit. Here's a nice kick in the b@lls, if you have a NYS carry permit but don't live in or have a NYC carry permit you can't carry a pistol in NYC, however. . . . .if you live in NYC and have a carry permit. . . . .you can carry anywhere in the state. California has had some sort of long gun/assault weapons registration for years. Nobody has done anything about that.

NYH1.

ThorinNNY
January 29, 2013, 11:46 AM
We all know or should know exactly how effective the Volstead Act 91919-33,i think) was! you know, the one that prohibited the possession, consumption and distribution of alcoholic beverages was!
The people who foisted that one on the American Public used arguments that seem vey similar to the ones the gun-grabbers use today! In NYC, their wise(sarcasm here) legislators made possession of a filled pocket flask of whiskey a felony punishiable by harsh sentances normally imposed only on criminals who used a firearms in the commission of a violent crime.
If you can find and endure watching it- PBS had a 3 part series PROHIBITION that first aired in 2010 or 2011! Pete Hammill( liberal scribbler)and all the other liberals slammed Prohibition in every way possible. Hamill said Pass a law that says you cannot have something. and suddenly you make it so desirable that people will risk loss of life, limb and liberty to get it.
But the same logic flies out the window when the libs want to deprive us of our guns while retaining their own!

Whatsit
January 29, 2013, 11:55 AM
Being a reformed New Yawker I sympathize with all of you still enslaved there. Good luck!

DammitBoy
January 29, 2013, 01:16 PM
Big Brother is watching you New York

http://defendgunrights.com/articles/nypd-testing-concealed-gun-detecting-cameras

Blakenzy
January 29, 2013, 01:42 PM
I just have to say, if people will practice civil disobedience, and do not register... it's only effective if it is done proudly, flaunting it, and en mass. If you are going to keep them buried, guilty, cowering away from the world, you are only fooling yourself; it's as if they have confiscated them already.

...Because it is not the hardware they are really after, but your Right to own, your moral highground. Rulers don't care if the "criminals" are armed, so long as they act guilty and are seen as criminals by the rest, criminals are easy to marginalize and control. Criminals legitimize the State's powergrab >for your safety<. Free men with Rights, and the Will to stand up for those Rights.. not so much. They are to tyrants what sunlight is to vampires.

An openly defiant and contempt-full, yet overtly peaceful (on our end at least) "Million-man" EBR toting march may be due for New Yorkers if courts fail to resolve the issue before the grace period expires.

DMK
January 29, 2013, 02:30 PM
If you can find and endure watching it- PBS had a 3 part series PROHIBITION that first aired in 2010 or 2011! Pete Hammill( liberal scribbler)and all the other liberals slammed Prohibition in every way possible. Hamill said Pass a law that says you cannot have something. and suddenly you make it so desirable that people will risk loss of life, limb and liberty to get it.
But the same logic flies out the window when the libs want to deprive us of our guns while retaining their own!

I watched that program a few weeks ago.

Replace "temperance" with "gun control" and that is exactly the scenario happening today.

It is ironic that all the narrators and commentators spoke strong words about liberty and justice regarding the 18th amendment while you new very well that they would take the opposite side of the argument regarding the 2nd amendment.

beefyz
January 29, 2013, 08:26 PM
"imprison them one at a time..... "


and when that occurs its time for all this speculation and hot air to stop and do what our ancestors had the cayonnes to do on the lexington & concord commons. not fighting each other,not sitting in our warm homes over the country, waiting for the tyranny to reach each of us, but joining EACH other in common effort at that time to oppose the tyrant......

tacxted
January 29, 2013, 10:00 PM
A few hundred thousand New York gun owners marching with their AR's on Albany would end this in a day. Each one drops a bullet on the governers lawn. There's a "political statement".

Let them try to stop it...

Our ancestors had the sand. Why dont we?
This is exactly what needs to happen to dry up the seeds of tyranny that cumo has sprouted!
Its more than a statement, its a check mate on the political, moral and national chess board.

Zombiphobia
January 29, 2013, 10:29 PM
Europeans on the other hand, turn out of their houses, clap and cheer as the "King's Men" ride into their village ... much bowing and scraping (remember the scene in The Quiet Man, when the Anglican Bishop is riding out of town and everyone turns out to wave ... even the Catholics?) Then, after the "King's Men" ride around the bend in the road, they all raise their right arms and extend the middle digit and then go on with their lives as they see fit.



And that's not true freedom. Not if they have to lick the King's crack to have 'peace'.

beefyz
January 29, 2013, 10:32 PM
# 89 above.......EXACTLY !!!!!


the jews in germany had a chance to resist and didn't & look what happened.
the nazis cofiscated the guns and look what happened.
mussolini confiscated the guns and look what happened
stalin confiscated the guns and look what happened
a few thousand marched in washington the other day who wouldn't object to confiscation.
and did ANY of US march ? has ANY formal NATIONAL protest been called for to march for the protection of the 2nd amendment ??????? ?????
exactly what the stinkin politicians hope we'll do....NOTHIN !!!!!!!! and go over the cliff with the rest of the lemmings of germany, italy ,and russia.

SouthernBoy
January 29, 2013, 10:50 PM
All I can say is that talk is cheap. I wouldn't put much stock in these brave words once the adverse consequences become clear. You can refuse to register, fine, but that gun can never be seen in public again.

And another thing: those that talk are not the real ones who will be defying the law, and vice versa. In fact, loudly advertising one's intentions is a good way to put oneself on the radar, to be made an example of.

If HB2340 is passed into law, we won't have to worry about any federal confiscation plans here in Virginia. And you know Virginia is not about to entertain any thoughts of confiscation. Let's hope this bill makes it to our governor's desk and becomes law.

Pat M
January 29, 2013, 11:12 PM
New York State Rifle and Pistol Association, along with some other groups, filed a Notice of Claim today:

http://www.nysrpa.org/files/SAFENoticeOfClaim.pdf

whitecloud
January 29, 2013, 11:27 PM
This is what America has come to. In-fared cameras watching you as you simply walk a public street, laws designed to punish the rights of law abiding citizens, rights granted by thousands, actually millions of men and women that died to protect these vary rights. Who are these people that have empowered themselves with such control that Constitutional law means nothing to them. These are CAREER politicians that do govern as they see fit. No longer is this a government by the people and for the people. This is a government of self-serving, greedy, power hungry white collar criminals that beg, borrow, steal, lie, cheat and think nothing of those people that elected them to be represented. Make no darn mistake about it, these are evil people that know no limits to their reach. Democratic or Republican, they all are evil. The double, triple homes they own. The millions of dollars they take during their political career. The laws they live by, are certainly not the laws we are subjected to. They will try to take our guns, all of our guns. This is just the tip of what’s to follow. Do not fool your selves. Guns, ammo, taxes on each will turn some in. The rising costs of registration, picture ids and so-on and so-forth will drive most of us away. In the end, 15-20yrs. from now the only ones with guns will be the criminals, the politicians....because they are very afraid so they will protect themselves. After all these are our leaders, God Save the Queen....sound familiar. Oh and by the way, when that light in your lamp goes out, don't you dare buy a 75watt incandescent replacement light bulb. Save our planet, you will have to buy that compact florescent bulb instead, you know the one that contains mercury and cost 3x as much. :banghead:

wooly bugger
January 29, 2013, 11:33 PM
Read "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" by Matthew Bracken. The parallels are uncanny. This past month has really changed my world view.

bds
January 29, 2013, 11:40 PM
Pat M, thanks for posting the link. I am sure the entire nation will be watching this lawsuit very carefully - http://www.nysrpa.org/files/SAFENoticeOfClaim.pdf

Plaintiffs claim that passage and enforcement of the aforementioned legislation:

A. violates their fundamental constitutional rights to lawfully possess, keep, bear and use firearms for self-defense and other lawful purposes;

B. violates their constitutional rights to privacy;

C. impermissibly interferes with and infringes upon their fundamental constitutional rights to travel both intra-state and inter-state with lawfully possessed firearms;

D. unconstitutionally criminalizes and bans the possession of certain firearms, ammunition and large capacity feeding devices that were legally possessed prior by plaintiffs prior to the legislation’s passage and enforcement, and in which the plaintiff’s had a cognizable property interest. The outright criminalization and ban of these firearms, ammunition and large capacity feeding devices amounts to a deprivation and taking of them by the State of New York under color of law and without due process or just compensation. As such, passage and enforcement of the NY SAFE Act effectuates an unconstitutional taking of private property under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution;

E. unlawfully and unconstitutionally imposes restrictions on the ability of the plaintiffs to conduct business on both inter-state and intra-state levels with the designers of, manufacturers of, sellers of, distributors of, and purchasers of certain firearms, ammunition, and large capacity feeding devices, all in violation of the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution;

F. deprives the plaintiffs of life, liberty and/or property without due process of law, in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution;

G. deprives the plaintiffs of the equal protection of the laws, in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution;

H. was passed and is being continuously enforced with the ongoing tortious intent to harass, harm, impede, interfere with, disrupt, interrupt, and/or destroy the present and future business and commercial activities of those plaintiffs who engage in the design of, manufacture of, distribution of, sale of, possession of, and/or training in the safe and lawful use of firearms, ammunition, and/or large capacity feeding devices; and

I. the legislation is impermissibly vague and overbroad.

Blakenzy
January 30, 2013, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by Gun Wielding Maniac View Post
A few hundred thousand New York gun owners marching with their AR's on Albany would end this in a day. Each one drops a bullet on the governers lawn. There's a "political statement".

Let them try to stop it...

Our ancestors had the sand. Why dont we?

This is exactly what needs to happen to dry up the seeds of tyranny that cumo has sprouted!
Its more than a statement, its a check mate on the political, moral and national chess board.

Very true. A public demonstration of defiance and contempt would be necessary if the courts don't clean this mess up pronto. A peaceful yet armed march is called for, a very public "come and get them... if you dare"<<they won't.

Brainstorming should begin on how to organize such an event and ensure its success. Lots of things to consider.

gym
January 30, 2013, 12:27 AM
I'm in, this has to stop now. We just can't allow it to continue. They work for us not the other way around.
A huge march needs to happen.

xXxplosive
January 30, 2013, 12:34 AM
Well, New York.............the world is watching.

jamesbeat
January 30, 2013, 12:52 AM
This is great, but I am troubled by one aspect of it; namely that as far as the rifles themselves are concerned, they are not being confiscated (yet).
Couldn't they argue that they are not trying to deprive anyone of their property, they simply require registration?

We all know that registration will inevitably lead to confiscation, but for the moment, they aren't saying that they will deprive us of our rifles.


It is of course possible that they never expected this law to actually stick.

They make a big fuss and talk about tighter restrictions to put on a big show that they are 'doing something', then when the dust settles a year later, the law is ruled unconstitutional and quietly withdrawn.
By that time, most of the public had forgotten about it anyway, so everyone is kept happy.

What really strikes me as bizarre about this whole thing is that this law was passed very quickly in the dead of night, the excuse being that it was an 'emergency'.
If it was really that urgent, how come it doesn't take effect for a whole year?
If they are giving us a year to comply, how come they couldn't have taken their time and gone through the proper non-emergency lawmaking proceedure?

nwilliams
January 30, 2013, 01:01 AM
I'm a strong believer in civil disobedience when it comes to unjust laws and regulations.

There was a time when civil disobedience worked out well in the end for African Americans and women this country, go back ever further and the whole reason this country even exists at all is due to civil disobedience against the British.

Vector
January 30, 2013, 01:06 AM
All I can say is that talk is cheap. I wouldn't put much stock in these brave words once the adverse consequences become clear.

We can certainly express our point of view whether it be because we own potentially banned guns, or just hypothetically. Regardless, all one has to do is not answer the door when the minions come a knocking. I doubt even Cuomo will send storm troopers to bust down doors with warrant less searches to try and confiscate guns. If he tried a lot of police would refuse on principle or for fear of winding up in the morgue.

Ignition Override
January 30, 2013, 01:38 AM
Blakenzy, gym and fellow shooters: A huge march seems like a good idea.

But with the increase in accidental discharges lately at gun shows, the considerable chance of an AD among a much larger number of people could turn the demonstration into a nasty media event.

They would twist it to their advantage, even lie about it being accidental.

jamesbeat
January 30, 2013, 01:45 AM
Or send one of their own guys in to 'accidentally' fire a round into the air...

Blakenzy
January 30, 2013, 02:30 AM
You are both right. There are a lot of things to consider. How can this be pulled off effectively? Brainstorming should start now. I can only imagine that certain guidelines must be agreed upon beforehand, and we will have to keep an eye out on each other, police ourselves, to weed out potential dumbasses or infiltrated police provocateurs.

It is something that should only be considered if the courts fail to resolve the issue before the "grace period" expires.

Just keep in mind that Freedom never was easy or cheap. How bad do you want it?

SouthernBoy
January 30, 2013, 09:37 AM
Read "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" by Matthew Bracken. The parallels are uncanny. This past month has really changed my world view.

I've read all three of his books in this series. Interesting and quick reads, they all have something to say.

gym
January 30, 2013, 11:33 AM
Perhaps an NRA card, and not bringing any guns to such a march, may be a start. If folks spend a few bucks to join the NRA, that should weed out the ones who aren't fo real.
There should be a way to fast track a person so they can join and have a receipt to join the protest. This way it keeps out anti's "I don't think they would join the opposition just to go to a march". Either that or have men "or leo's" do a quick check on everyone coming in, "like a gun show". Just preliminary thoughts, open to ideas. An accident would make everyone look stupid, we sure don't need or want that.
Probablly the only way to prevent it is not to have our guns.

Gun Wielding Maniac
January 30, 2013, 01:54 PM
It takes absolutely no balls to march with an NRA card.

We need something firm and impressive. Something awe-inducing. 500,000 people with arms in their hands would leave an impression. I think agent's provacatuer would be a problem, but one that is manageable. You'd need to have the group strongly disciplined before hand as to what to do if someone is seen doing something reckless.

jamesbeat
January 30, 2013, 02:02 PM
Marching with guns would just set it in the minds of the antis that there was a whole 'army' of 'NRA Nuts' with 'assault weapons' out there who must be stopped.

Remember, they just don't hate guns, they hate gun owners.

They fear guns. Parading around with them might have the opposite effect than what was intended.

Gun Wielding Maniac
January 30, 2013, 02:51 PM
Let them fear. What differance does their hostility make? They already hate you.

And hell, you've got an army right there if it goes to pot.

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