Nice to Know...


PDA






USSR
January 27, 2013, 03:49 PM
What with the Great Primer Drought of 2013, a few of us might be having a bit of a problem getting primers that we currently don't have. Since SPP's and SRP's are the same size, and I was testing a load that would greatly benefit from Magnum SPP's which I don't have, I thought I would try sub-ing a standard SRP. In consultation with resident HS-6 guru ArchAngelCD, I tried the following .357 Magnum loads using my cast 165gr bullets:

9.0gr HS-6 with a Winchester SPP
9.0gr HS-6 with a Tula SRP
9.2gr HS-6 with a Winchester SPP
9.2gr HS-6 with a Tula SRP

Results? Less smoke with the 9.2gr load with the SRP, and it seemed to perform just fine. Of course, work up your loads, but don't be afraid to try sub-ing a standard SRP for a powder type that really needs a magnum small pistol primer for good ignition. Just MHO.

Don

If you enjoyed reading about "Nice to Know..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Sam1911
January 27, 2013, 03:53 PM
Same size? What is the height difference between the pistol and rifle primers?

USSR
January 27, 2013, 03:59 PM
Small pistol primers and small rifle primers are the same dimensions, including height. However, large pistol primers are shorter in height than large rifle primers, so don't try to switch them for handgun loads.

Don

billybob44
January 27, 2013, 04:07 PM
Same size? What is the height difference between the pistol and rifle primers?
There is no difference on SMALL Primers.
I have loaded more than a "Few" small rifle primers in small pistol loads.

DO NOT load small pistol primers in small rifle loads!! TOO high of pressure in rifle loads for the "Thinner" small pistol cup...Bill

ArchAngelCD
January 27, 2013, 11:37 PM
What with the Great Primer Drought of 2013, a few of us might be having a bit of a problem getting primers that we currently don't have. Since SPP's and SRP's are the same size, and I was testing a load that would greatly benefit from Magnum SPP's which I don't have, I thought I would try sub-ing a standard SRP. In consultation with resident HS-6 guru ArchAngelCD, I tried the following .357 Magnum loads using my cast 165gr bullets:

9.0gr HS-6 with a Winchester SPP
9.0gr HS-6 with a Tula SRP
9.2gr HS-6 with a Winchester SPP
9.2gr HS-6 with a Tula SRP

Results? Less smoke with the 9.2gr load with the SRP, and it seemed to perform just fine. Of course, work up your loads, but don't be afraid to try sub-ing a standard SRP for a powder type that really needs a magnum small pistol primer for good ignition. Just MHO.

Don
Good to hear the "test" worked out well for you. Good information for when times get hard and components are scarce like now.

How was the accuracy with the 9.2gr HS-6 w/SRP load?

savanahsdad
January 28, 2013, 12:14 AM
Small pistol primers and small rifle primers are the same dimensions, including height. However, large pistol primers are shorter in height than large rifle primers, so don't try to switch them for handgun loads.

Don
????? I have loaddata for 44mag Rifle (as most books list it ) that use LRP and they shoot just fine in my blackhawk's , my 1894 , my ruger carbine and Deerfield , my under standing has alway been there a thicker cup and again there is a lot of data out there useing LRP in place of LPP

ArchAngelCD
January 28, 2013, 12:16 AM
????? I have loaddata for 44mag Rifle (as most books list it ) that use LRP and they shoot just fine in my blackhawk's , my 1894 , my ruger carbine and Deerfield , my under standing has alway been there a thicker cup and again there is a lot of data out there useing LRP in place of LPP
LRP are slightly higher than LPP and really should be used in place of LPP.

savanahsdad
January 28, 2013, 12:41 AM
LRP are slightly higher than LPP and really should be used in place of LPP.
I just went on loaddta.com and found more than a few 44 mag handgun loads useing LRP's there is even one for a S&W 29 4" barrel, that called for a CCI 250 witch is a LRM ,
I have alsol switch my Lee loadmaster over from LPP to LRP and did not have to reset my primer seater , wish I was at home right now I'd get out my calipers and check my CCI's and Rem's and Win's maybe from one brand to another there might be a +/- .002 , any rate, glad I check I got about 800 Rem 9 1/2M and a full box of CCI 250's and now I know what to burn them up in

FROGO207
January 28, 2013, 07:01 AM
I went "looking" at a couple LGS yesterday with no real intention of spending much money. I was looking for a compact pocket knife to replace my broken one.:) I--HAD--to go to the gun counter in the surplus store.:banghead: So I found a really clean S&W 5906 that followed me home.:D then on the way past the reloading area I saw boxes of primers stacked up.:scrutiny: I found about 20K of various brands of LPM primers as well as the same amount for LRM there. The sales guy said nobody had bothered buy any of them for about a year but the other primers all go the same day they arrive. I ended up with 3K LPM and 5K LRM all WIN as well for $25 and $28 per K. I guess most local reloaders are leery of substituting a magnum primer for a standard. I find if you do a proper workup when changing primers there are no pressure problems. I still have enough that the LR and LP can stay where they belong for now but thanks for your input to the substituting if necessary. BTW I found that pocketknife as well.:o:D

USSR
January 28, 2013, 07:56 AM
Good to hear the "test" worked out well for you. Good information for when times get hard and components are scarce like now.

How was the accuracy with the 9.2gr HS-6 w/SRP load?

Too darn cold up North here for any accuracy work. At this point I just wanted to make sure that with the SRP's harder cups, they fired, and with their hotter spark they provided an alternative to magnum small pistol primers.

Don

savanahsdad
February 3, 2013, 12:42 AM
well I'm home now , and started my homework, as it turns out we were both 1/2 right or 1/2 wrong, I was not sure about the LRP being taller than the LPP , USSR was right they are taller , but he was wrong about not useing them in handguns, "see loaddata.com ", or look in "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .44 Magnum" lots of data there useing LRP & LRM's

here's what I found , (CCI 200 = .125) ( WLRM = .130) ( WLP = .119) (FED 215 = .128 ) (rem 9 1/2 = .130) (CCI 300 = .120) (CCI 350 = .118) (CCI 350 "new lot" = .120)
so I was wrong too , a bit more than +/- .002 more like +/- .006 however primer pockets on 44mag's are deep , with a Lee hand prim tool all but the WLRM were flush,

sorry for getting off task, but when I read "don't use LRP in handguns" I had to chime in

back on task: USSR great job on trying SRP in a 357mag , when I got home I looked for some data useing SRP in place of SPP and found none , I'll check back for a range report,

ArchAngelCD
February 4, 2013, 01:32 AM
well I'm home now , and started my homework, as it turns out we were both 1/2 right or 1/2 wrong, I was not sure about the LRP being taller than the LPP , USSR was right they are taller , but he was wrong about not useing them in handguns, "see loaddata.com ", or look in "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .44 Magnum" lots of data there useing LRP & LRM's
No, you should not use LRP in handgun cases, period. I don't care what loaddata.com says. You do know the data listed there is contributed by private reloaders, not reputable companies who do testing. Just because you can does not mean you should. Unless your life is in danger and you have no other primers you should not load LRP in handgun cases... :banghead:

joneb
February 4, 2013, 01:56 AM
Some SRP have hard/thick cups, I have had FTF issues in some revolvers.

Reefinmike
February 4, 2013, 02:15 AM
I had used a few hundred srp in place of spp when my stock began to run low. low and behold, my twice yearly primer and powder order on dec 26th was hindered by the scare. I ordered me up 7k tula srp for use mainly in pistol, very few for rifle as well as 3k lpp and 5 pounds of powder. Ive loaded and shot quite a few srp in 380, 38, 357 and in those "cursed" spp 45acp cases. every one has gone bang without a hitch. Only disclaimer I could possibly note is that you should not use SRP in place of SPP when working up a load as they do not show the pressure signs. 7.5gr of hp38/win231 under a 125gr plated .357 in a 357 mag case using a SPP somewhat flattens the primer with no cratering while using the same load with a SRP looks just like the primer from a 38spl load with 3.4gr of powder.

USSR
February 4, 2013, 07:46 AM
FWIW, I would NEVER use a primer that is dimensionally different from the one that is made for the case IRREGARDLESS of what load data is published for it.

Don

kelbro
February 4, 2013, 01:41 PM
No, you should not use LRP in handgun cases, period. I don't care what loaddata.com says. You do know the data listed there is contributed by private reloaders, not reputable companies who do testing.

loaddata.com has mainly data from manufacturers, not just individuals. You might be thinking of reloadersnest.

savanahsdad
February 4, 2013, 03:17 PM
No, you should not use LRP in handgun cases, period. I don't care what loaddata.com says. You do know the data listed there is contributed by private reloaders, not reputable companies who do testing. Just because you can does not mean you should. Unless your life is in danger and you have no other primers you should not load LRP in handgun cases... :banghead:

YES you can :banghead::banghead: some of the loads on loaddata.com are from Handloader Magazine and Rifle Magazine, loaddata.com is a Wolfe Publishing Co.. web page! some data is form Hodgdon, IMR, Win, Sierra, Speer, Lyman, ect. ect. ect........

the load for the S&W Mod 29 with a 4" barrel useing a CCI 250 (LRM) is form Handloader Issue 89 ( Jan-Feb 1989) and my "THE COMPLETE RELOADING MANNAL FOR THE .44 MAGNUM" has a Copyright of 1997. and it has many rifle loads useing LRP , most are for rifles not handguns , but not all , so thats over 20+ years of data that uses LRP's in 44mag
and YES it is from reputable companies who do testing!

please don't group me in with the guy that says "if it's on the web , it must be ok". thats not safe! And I would not ever do that!

savanahsdad
February 4, 2013, 03:28 PM
loaddata.com has mainly data from manufacturers, not just individuals. You might be thinking of reloadersnest.
I don't think any of there data comes from individauls, as they list Source for all there loads, best $29.00 I have ever spent on reloading !

blarby
February 4, 2013, 05:20 PM
Ok, as a small aside.....

I HAVE cut large pistol primered brass to accept LRP's.

Some of you might remember the discussion from last year.

They do of course, work.

It was a lot of work, for a small amount of cases for testing.

I used a light load of w231 and Unique for 45 ACP, and HS-6 and Unique for 44.

They functioned fine.

Until I need to do it again, I will refrain from doing so.

Walkalong
February 4, 2013, 05:55 PM
Large rifle primers are taller and thicker than large pistol primers. In general they should not be used for loading in large pistol cases. The reason is that they may not go below flush which could possibly result in them going off under recoil in a revolver. Likely? No. Possible? Yes. The other issue is that you may have misfires due to the thicker cups.

Are there exceptions to all rules? Yes there are. As blarby posted, he used a large rifle primer pocket uniformer to cut LP pockets to rifle depth. Can it be done and there not be a problem? Yes.

Should you do it? Only you can answer that.

All the :banghead: :banghead: and ALL CAP BOLD told me this was going south, so I closed it. I am open to arguments to re-open it, assuming we can have a difference of opinion without getting upset.

If you enjoyed reading about "Nice to Know..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!