Stop using the "poodle shooter" argument!


January 27, 2013, 08:07 PM
Lately I've seen any number of people using the following "arguments"
-The AR15 is not even remotely the most powerful rifle
-The AR15 isn't used nearly as much by criminals as pistols
etc. etc.


The plan by the anti-rights types is to demonize what we know to be a relatively "low key" firearm in terms of performance. Once the AR is firmly engraved with the "evil" moniker it will be used as the baseline for everything else and then comes the comparisons by the anti-rights types such as;

-Well, we KNOW how bad the AR is, now look at this [fill in the blank] rifle which has EVEN MORE POWER so we need to get rid of that too.
-Well, we KNOW how bad the AR is, now look at this [fill in the blank] Pistol which is EVEN MORE EASILY CONCEALED so we need to get rid of that too..

The "part B" of the plan is already starting up.

NYC Police Commissioner: Handguns are main problem (
January 27, 2013 8:03 AM
New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly says handguns are used more than assault weapons in crimes in his city.

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January 28, 2013, 06:16 AM
It is always a mistake to argue technical points with the left in regards to firearms. They will not be convinced and all it does is weaken yourself. They don't want convincing, they don't care. They know most crimes are not committed by these arms, they want to ban them for political/control reasons. They don't like them, so you shouldn't own them. You cannot argue past that. By trying to do so, you present yourself as weaker than they, as if you are pleading in some way for them to like you or perhaps for them to understand you. They understand just fine in their own minds, and nothing you say or type will change it.

Leave it simply as "An AR-15 is no more dangerous than any other hunting rifle out there and serves legitimate hunting and self-defense purposes." Or more simply draw the line and point out that if the government dispenses with the 2nd Amendment, then it can dispense with all of them. A church, therefore, that does not support gay marriage can be targeted in the same way as an AR-15, that cars can be forced to have only 4 cylinder engines and governed to only 70mph, etc. You cannot draw the line somewhere else down the road, it has to be drawn here.

January 28, 2013, 09:39 AM
except they dont "KNOW" any thing so it really dosent matter what you say

January 28, 2013, 10:07 AM
If anyone is listening and actually agrees with the information, then the previous source of bad data is held in disrepute.

The fact is that most calibers in the AR15 are generally classed as intermediate power rounds - no "high," which could also include belted magnums.

The confusing part for many is that an AR10, FNFAL, HK91, etc are "high powered." Can't say I want to bring that up, the average know nothing would only get turned off.

There is also the argument that the AR15 is MORE safe and MORE ethical than traditional 100 year old designs. In brief, semi auto's are more accurate and qucker at shooting again when needed, which reduces loss and suffering. Second, the detachable mag helps unload the weapon more safely and quickly, you don't feed rounds back thru the chamber with a cocked firing mechanism. That alone reduces unintentional discharges.

Those are valid points, and should be supported. But low balling the facts is likely not going to make one bit of difference to an anti gunner, they will perceive it as being in a superior position to inflict their will. Better to disarm their false arguments. They will continue to press for a total gun ban anyway. What I see as the real problem are the pockets of traditionalists who refuse to accept their firearms are going away - sales are trending down, models are disappearing, the old favorites fading away. Their obstinate refusal to move into modern era firearms is the real problem, they don't like the AR15, and the press seeks them out.

We, as a shooting nation, are no different than the population at large, diverse with some polarizing opinions. What we need to do is give our own internal opponents the information they need to see how we are all in this together. I, for one, am tired of hearing who I thought was a firearms friend mouthing the same leftist talking points about "You don't need a 30 round magazine for hunting." Said person already knows there is a ten round maximum in our state during deer season.

I'll continue to explain the AR isn't usually "high" powered, and I'll throw in that 30 rounds is a "standard" issue magazine, to boot. Direct refutation in a polite manner is better than letting them continue to spread misinformation.

January 28, 2013, 10:26 AM
A very timely post, sir, because a few minutes ago I, too, saw Manhattan Police Commissioner Ray Kelly on CNN stating this very same argument to tighten up the handgun laws. He said that assault weapons are involved in about 2% of criminal activity and that handguns are the real problem.

Brace yourselves, New Yorkers, because it ain't over yet---not by a long shot!

January 28, 2013, 01:02 PM
Tirod said: There is also the argument that the AR15 is MORE safe and MORE ethical than traditional 100 year old designs.

This is precisely what I'm talking about.

If the anti-rights people manage to firmly convince the public that AR platforms are pure evil and get them banned, then that is their "yardstick" with which they can compare everything else.

They're already starting in with "We've agreed that EBR are evil and must be banned and now we've 'discovered' that they are nothing compared to the potential havoc and danger of <handguns, hunting rifles, ....>".

January 28, 2013, 02:57 PM
Thank you ZeSpectre for posting this.

When the argument comes up for gun control, my goal is to convince people that there will always be guns and there will always be bad people. Like Wayne Lapierre said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun."

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