Fashioning magazines with large capacities.


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CLP
January 28, 2013, 11:04 AM
Was having a discussion with someone about the attempts to ban "high capacity" magazines and an interesting questions was asked.

Can two or more low capacity magazines be fashioned together to form a functional, if not reliable, higher capacity magazine (eg by sawing and spot welding/brazing two mag bodies together)?

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rdhood
January 28, 2013, 11:08 AM
I don't see why not. You would need a new, proper sized spring.

gondorian
January 28, 2013, 11:12 AM
Honestly I think you could make a (20 round) magazine from sheet metal and JB weld as long as you had a follower and a spring.

hso
January 28, 2013, 11:15 AM
You wouldn't want to try to use two magazines to form a larger capacity magazine, but if any sort of misguided ban goes into place there will be plenty of reduced capacity magazines for existing firearms that will be convertible to original magazine specs for the firearms. This is one of the reason that proposing magazine ban legislation are theater instead of leadership.

CoRoMo
January 28, 2013, 11:19 AM
Okay this is my idea, so if any manufacturer produces this after this post's date and time, they owe me royalties! :D

I was thinking about this very thing recently because gun laws tend to redesign current firearms technology.

Take the KelTech PMR30's magazine for instance. It is basically two single stack mags in one body.

So here's my idea in regards to laws about +10 round mags. If the grip/magwell of a pistol were designed to accept two separate, single stack mags side by side... The pistol could run with only one of the mags inserted or could also run with both installed. Both installed would feed alternatively like the two stacks in the PMR30 magazine does.

Where there might be a law that bans magazines with greater than ten rounds, this would give you a pistol that simply has two ten round mags. It would obviously create a large girth/width in the grip if you tried to implement this in .45acp, .40 S&W, etc, but it'd be worth running through the engineering dept.

CoRoMo's patent pending...

45_auto
January 28, 2013, 11:59 AM
A staggered 9mm magazine is bad enough, side-by-side 9mm mags would make a Glock 20 or 21 feel skinny by comparison!

Mikhail Weiss
January 28, 2013, 12:01 PM
20-round box magazines were welded together in pairs to make 30- and 40-round box magazines for the Thompson submachine gun. Testing indicated they were superior to 20-round box magazines, as well as 50-round drum magazines. After testing, the 30-round box magazine became standard, at least for U.S. military use. So, yes, it can and has been done.

pockets
January 28, 2013, 01:03 PM
It is fairly simple to mate 2 magazines end-to-end to form a longer one. I used to do that now and then, before larger capacity magazines were available for some of my guns (yes, long ago back in the dark ages).
Given some basic tools, sufficient motivation, and a smattering of skill, one can manufacture just about anything......

BBQJOE
January 28, 2013, 01:19 PM
This might be smoke, but it sounds plausible to me.Can't recall where I first heard the idea.

There are 3-D printers out there now that can print a model of something in a hard plastic.
I don't see any reason that a magazine has to be made of stamped steel.

Skribs
January 28, 2013, 01:54 PM
CoRoMo, I think they did that with a 1911. Only there were 2 barrels, too...

John3921
January 28, 2013, 02:37 PM
bbqjoe - I've read recently they were able to 3-d print an AR15 lower and it functioned - not for long but it functioned.

Building a magazine would be easy for anyone with any skills. I can see some illegal chop shop making them for gangs and drug cartels etc. by the barrel full if the supply of legally manufactured magazines ever dried up.

Salvage the follower from a 5, 7, 10 rounder and build a box. Plastic, sheet metal, whatever. For a one shot deal, a wood follower or a UHMD follower would be fine.

CoRoMo
January 28, 2013, 03:24 PM
CoRoMo, I think they did that with a 1911. Only there were 2 barrels, too...
Yeah, it's close to what I'm describing. I just wonder if the idea of KelTec's KSG (two magazines, one chamber) could be adapted in a semi auto pistol with two detachable magazines. :D

You'd have to start with a small diameter round like the .32 (.311") rather than 9mm (.355") and certainly not .45acp because that DB1911 grip looked enormous. When I looks at the grip of my XD45, I think you could fit two single stack .32cal magazines in there!!

This would give gun owners in states where 10+ mags are prohibited the ability to carry a firearm that holds 20+1 through TWO legal magazines. But just like this XD45, it'd be a lot to fit inside the waistband.

Telekinesis
January 28, 2013, 03:24 PM
I've read recently they were able to 3-d print an AR15 lower and it functioned - not for long but it functioned.

They've actually worked on it a bit more and the lower is surviving longer and while firing standard pressure from a .223 (as opposed to the 3 or 4 rounds of 5.7 they originally started out with). I think their weak point was where the buffer tube attaches. They have also created a printable AR magazine that is completely manufactured with a 3D printer with the exception of a mag spring. Last I heard it survived a test of 80 or so rounds, including full auto. I believe their designs are downloadable for free.

http://defdist.tumblr.com/

John3921
January 28, 2013, 03:49 PM
ban the internet! It was algores idea anyway!

bigfatdave
January 28, 2013, 10:44 PM
It seems that it would be simpler to just add material to the existing magazine, rather than screwing up two working lo-cap mags.

You need the follower, feed lips and patch-in point from the donor lo-cap mag, otherwise, you can just extend it downwards.

4v50 Gary
January 28, 2013, 10:48 PM
Better to tape them together than jury rig them.

Magazines springs are designed to be compressed and hold the cartridges securely in the magazine. Second, they must be strong enough to push a cartridge up to the feed lips in time for the feed rail of the gun to strip one off.

If the spring isn't right, it will not perform reliably. Too strong and it can make the bolt or slide's movement sluggish. Too weak and it won't push the fresh cartridge up fast enough to feed reliably.

wgaynor
January 28, 2013, 10:59 PM
With enough duct tape and whiskey, anything can be achieved!

CLP
January 29, 2013, 12:14 AM
Not smoke. Look up http://defensedistributed.com/. The magazines are apparently pretty durable (not as much as steel or aluminum of course). The lowers have problems as mentioned above, but it's only a matter of time before that's resolved. This just further highlights why these politicians need to focus on the underlying problem vs. banning features or mag capacity. Lol, think about it. You get a 3D printer and PRINT out a functional high cap mag (even though I'm not sure if a 30rd file is currently available). If the 30rd mag file isn't yet available, it's only a matter of time. And it's not like they could stop they distribution of that file... just moronic.

hueyville
January 29, 2013, 05:01 AM
If they pass a law banning manufacture of high cap mags and you build your own probably looking at ten years in the federal penitentiary. Prison don't sound worth it guys either get your hi caps now or learn to do fast mag swaps. If you need more than 10 rounds to get out of a situation your either a bad shot or in deeper than a couple more bullets in the magazine will fix. Get real, real life is seldom like the movies.

bigfatdave
January 29, 2013, 05:25 AM
hueyville - many of us aren't much concerned with nonsense from on high any more, such a law is simply not legitimate.

It would be interesting to see draconian gun laws backfire, if it is just as "illegal" to have a common semiautomatic rifle with a standard capacity magazine as it is to have a suppressed full-auto gun I whomp up in a machine shop based on the M3 grease gun or Sten design ... well, why not have a Grease Gun or Sten?
Once people start salvaging barrels and rebuilding magazines to whatever capacity they please, enforcement becomes problematic.

And how dare you tell me what I do or don't need?

===

Also, magazines hold "rounds", not just "bullets"
And also, "you're" means "you are" ... "your" does NOT mean "you are"

rdhood
January 29, 2013, 10:00 AM
If they pass a law banning manufacture of high cap mags and you build your own probably looking at ten years in the federal penitentiary. Prison don't sound worth it guys either get your hi caps now or learn to do fast mag swaps.

If they grandfather in magazines, how the heck are they going to know if you fashioned it before or after the ban? Like building an AK47 from kit, there are no records, there are no serial numbers.

Justin
January 29, 2013, 10:04 AM
This is just one of many reasons why a magazine ban is completely moronic.

It's like trying to ban iPods in order to prevent music piracy.

josiewales
January 29, 2013, 10:16 AM
At first I thought this thread was about a fashion magazine!:scrutiny:

M-Cameron
January 29, 2013, 06:08 PM
theres no reason one couldnt turn 2 10-round magazines into 1 ~17-round magazine.

you can chop the feedlips off one mag. and chop the bottom off the other.......and weld the 2 together.

as for the spring, you can either braze the 2 springs together, or you can try and find a replacement spring long enough.

reliability will be as good as your fabrication skills.


although personally, i would just tape 2 mags together and simply flip them when i run out.



If they pass a law banning manufacture of high cap mags and you build your own probably looking at ten years in the federal penitentiary. Prison don't sound worth it guys either get your hi caps now or learn to do fast mag swaps. If you need more than 10 rounds to get out of a situation your either a bad shot or in deeper than a couple more bullets in the magazine will fix. Get real, real life is seldom like the movies.


2 things:

1) you are assuming only good guys have a want for high cap mags.......they are favorable by criminals for the same reason 'good guys' like them.......and an additional 10 years for an illegal mag is nothing when you are facing life for murder.

2) your statement "If you need more than 10 rounds to get out of a situation your either a bad shot or in deeper than a couple more bullets in the magazine will fix." is woefully ignorant and is a statement right out of the mouth of Sarah Brady.

there are many instances where more than 10 rounds is ideal....unfortunatelly not everyone is a master marksman, so should they be denied the right to defend themselves if they happen to miss?

what about if there are multiple attackers?.....say you have 3-5 attackers, thats 2-3 shots each, better hope you dont miss, and you better hope 1 round does the job...or else you are screwed.

and how about the Korean merchants who defended themselves durring the LA riots?.....should they have been limited to 10 rounds when they were facing hundreds of violent looters?...hell, even if they were expert marksmen, 10 rounds wouldnt have been enough.


you are right, life is not like the movies....in the fact that the good guy doesnt always come out on top w/out a scratch.....perhaps its time for you to "get real"

cfullgraf
January 29, 2013, 06:31 PM
Around 1980, I grafted two military surplus M1911 magazines together to make an eight round magazine (commercial 8 rounders were not available or readily available at the time) mostly as an exercise.

It worked and I still have it. I feel some jigs would need to be made to make the process simple, reliable and repeatable.

Steel magazines would be easier to graft together. Aluminum requires some equipment not normally found in a home workshop, like a tig welder.

I would rather rig a way to fasten multiple magazines together for quick changes. But, that is personal preference.

John3921
January 29, 2013, 07:22 PM
The point is - once "High Capacity" magazines are banned - the bad guys will not have any problems getting them. So what, exactly, is the point of this legislation?

The only thing it does is create problems for law-abiding gun owners. For one thing if they are flat banned, then you the owner now have less capability then the BG. If they are controlled - you'll have to be able to prove it is legal - every damn time you go to the range probably. It MIGHT inconvenience a BG who is pretty sure he needs one to do mayhem, but probably not very much.

It's expensive and pointless legislation.

Ole Coot
January 29, 2013, 08:38 PM
I have a reasonably decent shop and I really don't see any great problem in making magazines even without a break or plasma cutter, 20s would be easy.

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