Berry's .45 Auto 200gr HP and COAL?


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holdencm9
January 28, 2013, 11:50 AM
Okay so after 750 successful Berry's and Rainier 230gr round nose reloads, I have had to switch to 200gr HP since that's all Cabela's had last time I was there.

I have plenty of data to try to determine a starting load, even though it is tough because nothing is explicitly for this exact round, I can find similar-shaped bullets. I have Hornady, Rainier (Midway) Ballistics data, and the Cabela's .45 ACP booklet that includes about a dozen different manuals.

My only issue is most manuals either don't list the COAL or list it at 1.20-1.23 and I have to go to about 1.170" to prevent the bullet from hitting the rifling. The result is a pretty stout-looking round, so we will see how it feeds, but I am just wondering how much that reduced length (and reduced case volume) will affect my pressures. I figure as long as I start with starting loads it won't affect too much, but any insights or data for short COAL would be greatly appreciated.

PS I was loading the round nose bullets to 1.260" just fine without hitting the rifling, I just think the HP's have such a long "shaft" portion before the ogive starts. I looked it up and I guess you would call these HP's a "secant ogive" rather than "tangential."

Thanks,

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timbuck
January 28, 2013, 12:37 PM
Generally, for semi-auto handguns, you load the round to have the base flush with the end of the barrel. Seat the bullet to control this. Pull the barrel out to use as a gauge.

holdencm9
January 28, 2013, 01:36 PM
Generally, for semi-auto handguns, you load the round to have the base flush with the end of the barrel. Seat the bullet to control this. Pull the barrel out to use as a gauge.

Hi timbuck, yes. I have pulled the barrel out of my 1911 to do the plunk test. At 1.23" COAL they wouldn't even go in all the way, and then took some effort to get back out. At 1.20" they went in all the way (case head flush with rear of barrel) but would not come back out on their own.

1.170" was the COAL that it took to ensure the bullet would drop in on its own with a nice "plunk" and then come out on its own by gravity, or maybe with a little shake.

My question is if I should be worried about the decreased COAL and decreased case volume increasing pressures dramatically.

If anyone has a load with this bullet/similar COAL and Win 231 they can share that would be greatly appreciated.

USSR
January 28, 2013, 02:12 PM
holdencm9,

I regularly load my 200gr HP's, which in my Gold Cup need to have an OAL of less than 1.20", with 5.0gr of W231.

Don

Walkalong
January 28, 2013, 02:37 PM
I load the Berrys 200 Gr HP at 1.200 OAL. Feeds in anything 230 Gr ball works in. Shoots very well too. Cuts better holes than some SWC's.

1.170" was the COAL that it took to ensure the bullet would drop in on its own with a nice "plunk" and then come out on its own by gravity, or maybe with a little shakeSure it's the bullet, and not the case?

holdencm9
January 28, 2013, 03:10 PM
I regularly load my 200gr HP's, which in my Gold Cup need to have an OAL of less than 1.20", with 5.0gr of W231.

That's right around the load I was thinking of starting with. Actually, 5.1gr since that is what the cavity on my lee auto disk likes to drop.

I load the Berrys 200 Gr HP at 1.200 OAL. Feeds in anything 230 Gr ball works in. Shoots very well too. Cuts better holes than some SWC's.

Sounds good. I am looking forward to the big holes they cut!

Sure it's the bullet, and not the case?

I thought about that. I put in some cases that had nothing done to them, and some that were full-length resized, they seemed to go in and out no problem. I have the Lee FCD that keeps them to about 0.471" and nothing seemed to have an effect it until I shorted the COAL enough. Also, using the turret, nothing was changed between the RN and the HP except the seating depth die. Is there any other trick to figure out what might be the culprit of the sticky round?

I gave me chamber a decent cleaning beforehand too.

rcmodel
January 28, 2013, 03:14 PM
Is there any other trick to figure out what might be the culprit of the sticky round? Yes.
Color one of the sticky ones with a black magic-marker or dry-erase marker and chamber it.

What comes out shiny is what is sticking.

rc

holdencm9
January 28, 2013, 03:33 PM
RC,

Brilliant!

Now to "borrow" a dry erase marker from the office....

holdencm9
January 29, 2013, 03:55 PM
I tried the marker but it was inconclusive. There didn't seem to be any spots on the brass that were scratched off, but the ink did not adhere to the plated bullet very well, so while I thought I saw some marks where the rifling may have been hitting the bullet, I was not positive. But as soon as I adjusted the seating die deeper they went in and out no problem, which leaves me pretty sure that is the culprit. I loaded up a bunch.

I went and shot them this morning and they shot well. A bit softer than factory, but pretty good for range ammo, and pretty accurate/clean. Whoever it was that said they make nice hole was right...perfect little circles!

They felt good, but I had 2 jams out of the 50 rounds. I guess you would call it "high angle feed jam" variety, or "nose up" jam, I think I have also heard to it referred as 3-point jam. I am guessing this is due to the short stubby nature of the loaded cartridge and truncated nose bullet profile?

This is in a Kimber Custom II, which seemed to feed Speer Gold Dots just fine, although my sample size a measly 40 rounds.

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