Is NRA Selling Us Out


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Rimfaxe
January 28, 2013, 12:39 PM
TO: NRAILA
RE: DO NOT SELL ME OUT YOU S.O.B!


"Universal Background Checks" are simply gun registration.

You are selling out your members, who when this whole thing implodes because of your incompetence, will turn on you with great ferocity because there will be nothing to lose and no one else to blame for this fiasco.

Got my back? Nope. Got my Money? Yep! After my life membership and multiple contributions I hear that you're supporting 'Universal Background Checks' This is just another name for Gun Registration. There is not room to give into the government on this. Do not sell me out by giving my information to Obama and Eric Holder.

Tell your NRA lobbyist Chuck Cunningham that he is BADLY MISGUIDED and he is making things unnecessarily difficult in Virginia. Tell him to cut the <deleted>, OK?

I know you won't answer this with a commitment to action or even an explanation. I can only hope that someone in the organization reads this and takes it to heart.

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akv3g4n
January 28, 2013, 01:07 PM
Rimfaxe-

I think you may have gotten some incorrect information. I received an e-mail with this from the NRA a few days ago...

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2013/1/statement-from-chris-w-cox-regarding-universal-background-checks.aspx

DeepSouth
January 28, 2013, 01:15 PM
What are you talking about?

Your post seems to be in conflict with all I heard from the NRA on universal background checks.....

Do you have a an email? A link to a article? Anything to explain what your talking about, because at this point it just looks like another false accusation.

ole farmerbuck
January 28, 2013, 01:27 PM
I think I read the same thing Rimfaxe did.

phil dirt
January 28, 2013, 01:51 PM
"Universal Background Checks" are simply gun registration."

I received the same information this morning from the National Association for Gun Rights.
I'm still undecided as to their legitimacy. However, I did receive information from them regarding Sen. Mitch McConnell's recent collaboration with "Dirty" Harry Reid concerning the Senate filibuster. Because of the info from the Nat'l Assoc. for Gun Rights, I called Sen. McConnell's office and was told by his office that there was no collaboration going on, which turned out to be not true. So, should we believe the NRA? I'm not sure. I read the NRA's statement on their ILA site and they claim it isn't so. I want to believe them, but so far, the Nat'l Assoc. for Gun Rights seem to have at least gotten their info on the filibuster correct, which gives them more credibility with me than Senator McConnell's office.

Also, Senator Rand Paul is a supporter of the National Association for Gun Rights. I, personally,
like what I am hearing from him. He's got balls and doesn't seem to be an appeasing collaborator.

Sam1911
January 28, 2013, 03:51 PM
Here's (BOD member, and former NRA President) Marion Hammer's release from Friday on the subject: http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2013/1/universal-background-checks-%E2%80%93-absolutely-not.aspx

The long and short of it is "Absolutely NOT."

hso
January 29, 2013, 10:58 AM
That's a very strong accusation that warrants providing some proof in the face of the release from Marion Hammer.

Double check your facts to make sure you're not being gamed by NAGR.

Rimfaxe
January 29, 2013, 02:23 PM
Here's a message from Virginia Gun Owners Coalition--

I read the bill and it has some issues that I mentioned earlier in the thread. The VGOC is a very no compromise organization and the president has a pretty good handle on the goings on in Richmond.

I'm a little disturbed by this because I feel that we should be fighting the same battle here. I'm sure there's more to the story-- but the issue is that things are moving so quickly that there's never really time to validate and rationalize sometimes. I support the NRA, but it is in my nature to clearly understand why I'm supporting or not supporting a particular issue.

I did get the 'recommended' list of bills from NRAILA, but I took the time to read the actual bills when crafting my letters. I ended up going against the NRA recommendation on that one.

So it begs the question-- what gives here?

Here's the info form VGOC
---------------------------------------

Urgent Update
NRA on Warpath but Temporarily Stopped
Your Action Critical!


This is an urgent update written over the top of our last email so that you might fully understand the intense fight that is on right now in Richmond.



The good news is that you and I have temporily killed SB 1299, the Senate version of an NRA drafted bill to give your names to Eric Holder.



Here are the facts from Senate Courts of Justice:



1. Senator John Edwards, was dupped into sponsoring SB 1299.

2. I met with him early in the morning to warn him.

3. He promised to delay the bill.

4. Republican gun grabber and Chairman Tommy Norment refused to delay SB 1299.

5. Under threat from me that it would be "blood and metal politcally" on the Senate floor if Edwards did not kill the bill, Senator Edwards then walked to the podium and shocked the packed committee room.

6. Senator Edwards moved to strike his own NRA drafted bill.

7. The senate version of SB 1299 is now temporarily dead because it can always be offered as an Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to other Senate floor bills.

8. Anti-gun bully Tommy Norment stared at me in hot anger for about 5 seconds. I stared him down and then went to thank our allies who helped make this possible - - the state police and NAGR - - the new national 1.8 million member gun lobby that formed a couple years after several state level gun lobbies formed a coalition to stop the NRA backed renewal of the hated Clinton Gun Ban in 2004.

10. Right now, the fight is back on in the House.

11. I have captured footage of NRA manager, Chuck Cunningham, supporting Gun Control in sub-committee and will try to get that to you in the next email.



I am exhausted but energized because the Senate fight yesterday was an intense back and forth fight all morning.



We had help from the State Police lobbyist who is a Virginia Patriot and our national ally, NAGR, a 1.8 million member gun lobby that is following our lead to expose the NRA agenda.



Clearly, SB 1299 was an NRA sneak attack to keep the NRA dream of a massive federally run data base alive as they continue foolishly thinking they can control Obama and Holder.



This fight is so intense that I have had to prolong my trip and stay most of this week in Richmond.



I leave for the capitol in minutes to talk to key legislators who are also stunned by the NRA sell out.



In fact, I am so busy that I have not had time to approve final copy of the material my staff is putting together for the VGOC Free Offer of an AR 15.

For those of you who have contacted me wanting to know how to sign up, I promise to try and attend to that as soon as I get back to the VGOC this evening in Front Royal before returning to Richmond on Thursday night.



-----------------------------------------------------



Now you know why it is so critical that you cut copy and paste the urgent message below to Delegate Lingamfelter, the Chairman of House Militia and Police.



Unfortunately, Delegate Lingamfelter is trying to figure out how to help the NRA pass gun control while tricking you and me into sitting down, shutting up and trusting the NRA.



That may work for Lingamfelter but I am not going away or shutting up.



You see, the NRA is desperate to give Obama and Eric Holder your names - - which they naively believe will not result in future gun confiscation.



To be blunt, Lingamfelter - - who is normally good on gun rights - - is running scared and confused.

He is running for Lt. Governor and needs the support of gun owners at the May Convention.



But that is his dilemna.



To win in May he can't afford to anger the 800 lb NRA Gorilla and he can't afford to anger principled No-More-Excuse Virginia gun owners like you and me.



Lingamfelter is in the same dilemna that former Senator George Allen was in when VGOC members convinced Alle that VGOC Members could cause him more pain politically than the sleepy NRA giant if he supported the NRA backed renewal of the hated Clinton gun ban.



You and I won that fight and Allen changed his mind.



You and I can win this fight but it is going to take some very quick action on your part and some of your wallet.

Email Delegate Linghamfelter at DelSLingamfelter@house.virginia.gov or call him and leave a message at 804 698 1031

Cut copy and past the following message or speak it into their answering machines.

--------------------------------------------------

Mr. Linghamfelter I agree with Mike McHugh of VGOC that you made a good first step is doing nothing to hurt my liberties regarding HB 2240, the Strengthen Obama's Federal Plantation Bill that gives my name and information to Eric Holder.

Please don't cave to pressure or ugly threats from the NRA.



Please stand firm and continue to DO NOTHING.



Please don't resurrect HB 2240.



As you know HB 2240 is not dead until Sine Die on February 23rd.



I will absolutely take any action against my liberties into serious consideration at the MAY Republican Convention and I will urge all my family and friends to do the same"

-----------------------------------------------------

Also Please make as generous a donation as possible to keep VGOC in this fight.



I have been so busy that I have not even been able to get mail our January membership renewal.



Please Donate by clicking STOP GUN CONTROL



Thank you and God Bless you.



Sic Semper Tyrannus,

Mike McHugh



------------------------------------------------------



Last email for those who have not followed this fight until now.



------------------------------------------------------



It does not get much worse than what I MUST tell you.



I have some heartbreaking news about the NRA.



But first, I need you to to ACT TODAY to defend your families and gun rights.



I am sad to report that NRA lobbyist Chuck Cunningham almost succeeded in getting the House Sub-committee of Militia and Police to pour more of your private data into the broken federal data base system.



I know Chuck and I like him but he is badly misguided.



Obviously, Mr. Cunningham is under orders from his NRA bosses to placate the gun grabbers who care nothing for protecting innocent children.



It breaks my heart ot see the NRA so willing to sell us out for organizational gain.



Clearly, the NRA managers are willing to appease the anti-gun media at the expense gun owners.



You see, after years of watching the NRA sell us out, I have learned that the best way to work with them is to embarrass them into doing the right thing.



This is NOT about the patriotic NRA members who are in the dark about the NRA.



It is all about how political lobbies sell out just like politicians sell out.



I have received criticism from only a handful of VGOC members but bucket loads of thanks for telling the truth about the NRA.



In fact, the only way I know to work with the NRA is to

embarass them into doing right when they are doing wrong just like the only way to stop a politician from doing bad things is to put the fear of losing elections in their mind.



Below are the facts:



So please take a look at the facts below and decide for yourself if the NRA can be trusted:

The Strengthen Obama's Growing Federal Plantation Bill, HB 2240, is designed to strengthen the broken but massive federal government data base.
The unintended NRA consequence will be to strengthen the federal ability to confiscate guns at right time.
HB 2240 sponsored by anti-gun Delegate Cosgrove is a massive 20 page bill full of dangerous attacks on our liberty and granting more power and strength to the feds.
HB 2240 was supported and spoken for by only one anti-gun lobby and opposed by another on Thursday Night January 24 in sub-committee.
I about fell out of my chair when the anti-gun bill sponsor, Delegate Cosgrove, pleaded with the committee to support HB 2240 because the NRA supported it.
Cosgrove reminded the committe that the NRA had sponsored gun control as early as the 1960's.
I felt sick inside when Cosgrove boldly told the committee that the NRA drafted and wrote HB 2240.
No other pro-gun lobby supported this attack on our liberty. All spoke against it and one went neutral.
Several pro-gun lobbyists joined me in speaking against HB 2240
HB 2240 is so bad that even the State Police opposed the bill because they don't beleive Virginia needs to become more of a slave to the federal government and they believe we already have a sufficient system to check for illegal gun purchases - - which does not stop murders anyway.
No action was taken on HB 2240.
It was declared "dead" but I new that was a lie because nothing is ever dead until Sine Die on February 23rd - - and even then it could be revived at the the April 3rd Veto Session with the Governor.
NRA lobbyist Cunningham was visibly shaken and angry
Cunningham immediately cornered Speakers Howell's "fixer" or Deputy Whip, Delegate Todd Giblert, who eloguently convinced the committee to take no action - - but that why this fight is NOT OVER
Mr. Cunningham then followed Gilbert for a private meeting.
And in fact, the NRA true to form in order to save face convinced Gilbert to resurrect HB 2240 in full committee at 9:00 Friday Morning January 25.
Gilbert informed me at 8:50 AM, 10 minutes before start of committee, that all the Dems and Repubs were going to unanimously discharge the bill from sub committee and then send it to the floor for a vote.
It was all set to be a kumbia moment until I promised Gilbert that it would be "blood and metal politically speaking" on the floor of the House if he if played lap dog to the NRA.
Gilbert then convinced Chairman Lingamfelter to slow it down until next week.
Lingamfelter said, "we will not hear HB 2240" so that Mr. Gilbert and I can tweak and fix it"

So the fight is NOW on.



This is critical my friends.



The bad news is this NRA drafted monster is still alive.



The good news is that Chairman Linghamfelter wants to win the Republican Nomination in May for Lt. Governor of Virginia and will be vulnerable to grassroots lobbying pressure from you.



Mr. Linghamfelter's ambitions give us a great opportunity to kill this NRA drafted multiple-headed monster.



But first, I must say that the NRA Managers may mean well but they are totally misguided.



Cleary, the NRA thinks the Federal Government can be trusted.



I fervantly disagree.



Why the NRA is willing to support the malignant cause of naively turning Obama's current Federal Plantation into an Orwellian Animal Farm eludes me.



I cannot read their minds.



I suspect they think that losing slowly is better than an winner take all fight with the enemies of liberty.



I know the NRA managers love our nation and frequently do the right thing but they foolishly trust Obama not to use these new powers to further enslave us.



Even if Obama could be trusted - - and he cannot - - what do the NRA Managers think some future would-be-dictator will do with a strenghthened tool to confiscate guns.



NOW you know why the requested action below is so critical.



Please help me strengthen Delegate Gilbert's spine and the fear of you in Lingamfelters ambitions.



Gilbert is my Delegate and told me he wants to do the right thing.



But the NRA is now on the war path.



So please email Delegate Gilbert and Linghamfelter right now or call them:



DelTGilbert@house.virginia.gov or call him and leave a message at 804 698 1015.



DelSLingamfelter@house.virginia.gov or call him and leave a message at 804 698 1031



Cut copy and past the following message or speak it into their answering machines.



--------------------------------------------------

"Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Linghamfelter I agree with Mike McHugh of VGOC that you made a good first step is doing nothing to hurt my liberties regarding HB 2240, the Strengthen Obama's Federal Plantation Bill.



So please don't cave to pressure or ugly threats from the NRA.



Please stand firm and continue to DO NOTHING.



Please don't resurrect HB 2240.



As you know HB 2240 is not dead until Sine Die on February 23rd.



I will absolutely take any action against my liberties into serious consideration at the MAY Republican Convention and I will urge all my family and friends to do the same"

---------------------------------------------------



My dear VGOC patriots, thank you for joining me in the fight.



It is so critical that you also get all your family and friends to visit www.vgoc.org Virginia's ONLY state-level NO-MORE-EXCUSES gun lobby.



Please get all your family and friends to visit www.vgoc.org and sign up for free email alerts.



And please consider chipping in a donation of $15 or $20 dollars to cover VGOC's growing list of expenses by clicking HELP VGOC COVER EXPENSES



I am having to spend more overnights in Richmond that I orignially thought.



Unfortunatly you and I need to babysit these so-called conservative Republicans to keep them from wittingly or unwittingly selling us down the river.



I hope it is unwittingly but that is beside the point.



And please consider chipping in a donation of $15 or $25 dollars by clicking DONATE.



----------------------------------------------------





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And it is the weapon that law abiding gun owners in New York are no longer able to freely possess after the outrageous attack on their liberties by the NY legislature.


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For now I want to keep the dealer source as a surprise for Monday.



For Liberty,

Rimfaxe
January 29, 2013, 03:53 PM
More from VGOC

I have been challenged to prove that The NRA Bill Sponsor of the Obama Federal Plantation Bill on the Senate Side, SB 1299, was stricken by the sponsor, Senator John Edwards - - who did not realize he was being duped by the NRA managers.



Senator Edwards has always been a good friend to gun owners and that is why he listens to me when I tell him the truth.



Senator Edwards is one of only a handful of pro-gun Democrats.



Senator Edwards was one of three Democrats to vote to repeal the Restaurant Ban.



Sadly, Senator Edward's decision to sponsor this Orwellian/Obama nightmare was a huge disappointment to me.



And it reminds us of why we need a constant VGOC presence in Richmond to keep even our pro-gun friends in line - - especially when the NRA uses their muscle to sneak a bill past your VGOC.



Regardless, here is the proof.


2013 SESSION

|print version

SB 1299 Criminal history record information checks, etc.; dissemination of information.

Introduced by: John S. Edwards | all patrons ... notes| add to my profiles
SUMMARY AS INTRODUCED:

Criminal history record information checks; protective order registry; dissemination of information. Provides that certain criminal history record information and protective order registry information shall be made available to the Attorney General of the United States for the purposes of using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System to determine a person's eligibility to possess or receive a firearm under state or federal law.



FULL TEXT

01/16/13 Senate: Presented and ordered printed 13103814D pdf

HISTORY

01/16/13 Senate: Presented and ordered printed 13103814D
01/16/13 Senate: Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
01/28/13 Senate: Stricken at the request of Patron in Courts of Justice (14-Y 0-N)

Your donations at Stop Gun Control are desperately needed to keep your VGOC in the fight.



We have been so busy since the slaughter of innocent little boys and girls at Sandy Hook that our Membership Renewal Letter for January has yet to be written.



If you could do it on line at DONATE it would be of great help.



If you have already renewed your VGOC membership, I thank you.



Anything else you could chip at DONATE would be of great help.



Sic Semper Tyrannis,

ThorinNNY
January 31, 2013, 04:44 PM
For what it`s worth. i have some doubts about NAGR. Old computer died,kids got me discontinued but NEWer model `puter NIB. It`s got windows 7. Now I need as many windows 7 for dummies books as I can get. Can`t get printer to work with it. Called NAGR,asked them to mail me a membership app. It`s been a month, no mail from NAGR.Can`t see the good of NAGR knocking NRA without verifiable facts to back `em up!
Seems like preacher saying you cannot get to heaven as member of THAT church, only get there if you`re member of MY church!
Seems to create doubts about the veracity of both, if you follow my drift!

Rimfaxe
February 7, 2013, 06:03 AM
To me, as a citizen of the Commonwealth of Virgina, it appears that NRA Manager Chuck Cunningham seems to be pushing for more reporting to the Federal Government on gun buyer information. This goes against the correspondence that I have received regarding the NRA's position on universal background checks. I find it concerning that the Gun Rights cart isn't being pulled in the same direction here.

I find this all very confusing since I see in the video that Cunningham is advocating supplying additional information on gun buyers to the Federal Government-- including Juvenile records.

When you add to this the suspicious fact that right after Mr. Lingamfelter, who chairs the House Militia, Police, Public Safety Committee, dropped his support for the NRA drafted gun control bill, HB 2240, he won an award from the NRA, it makes me start to wonder what is going on behind the closed doors in Richmond VA.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/2/virginia-delegate-scott-lingamfelter-to-get-nra-carter-knight-freedom-award.aspx

I am posting this here to get some additional opinions on this, but to me it seems pretty clear that NRA representative Cunningham is advocating additional gun buyer information to be provided by VA to the Federal system. It is hard to argue with the video below if you have read the bill.

Here's the key video on youtube-- Virginia Senate Bill SB 1299 would have expanded prohibited persons in the FBI Instant Check System. Video of NRA Manager Chuck Cunningham pushing Gun Control in Delegate Lingamfelter's subcommittee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wFc9xiZfJc&feature=youtu.be

Here are some observations that have been distributed by the VGOC (Virginia Gun Owners Coalition)

1.During the 5:00 PM subcommittee mtg on January 24 NRA Manager, Chuck Cunningham, joined one anti-gun lobby in supporting the Obama/Holder Private Data Base Bill HB 2240.

2.No pro-gun lobby supported the NRA sellout to Obama.

3.Several pro-gun lobbies vehemently spoke against it including VGOC and NAGR

4.HB 2240 is such an outrageous attack on Virginia that the State Police lobbyist, Bill Reed, spoke eloquently against it.

5.Delegate Todd Gilbert did a masterful job of pointing out the confusion and dangers of the NRA bill.

6.Lingamfelter's subcommittee Chair, Delegate Tommy Wright, declared the bill dead for lack of action.

7.Cunningham then cornered and confronted Delegate Gilbert and began demanding that Gilbert bring it up in full committee the next morning - - it almost worked.

8.The next morning, January 25, Delegate Gilbert, informed VGOC President, Mike McHugh, at 8:50 AM - - ten minutes before the full committee that the NRA had explained the bill better and the full committee under the leadership of Chairman Lingamfelter was going to send the Obama/Holder bill to the House floor for a vote.

9.After what can only be called a civil but intense discussion, Mr. Gilbert flip-flopped and once again came out against the Lingamfelter/NRA/Obama/Holder gun control scheme.

This is where it really gets messy.

Mr. Gilbert then texted Mr. McHugh that Mr. Lingamfelter would fix the problem - - but that is not what happened.

When the Lingamfelter/NRA/Obama/Holder bill came up Mr. Lingamfelter said, "Todd Gilbert and I will tweak the bill" and bring it back.

The NRA then shifted their focus to their identical bill over in the Senate. The NRA hoodwinked pro-gun Democrat Senator John Edwards into thinking it was a pro-gun bill.

Once again the combination of VGOC, the State-Police, and NAGR convinced Mr. Edwards of the danger to Virginia and Senator Edwards moved to strike his NRA drafted anti-gun bill.

You can see it by clicking NRA ANTI-GUN BILL DEFEATED IN SENATE: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?131+sum+SB1299

At this point, the entire legislature was aware that once again the NRA had been caught red-handed at selling gun ban schemes and the centralization of power in Washington D.C.

There definitely seems to be two different stories here and that is very unfortunate since we already have an uphill battle to preserve our 2nd Amendment rights in today's harsh political environment.

hso
February 7, 2013, 06:40 AM
Provides that certain criminal history record information and protective order registry information shall be made available to the Attorney General of the United States for the purposes of using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System

Is the below the bill you're talking about? It looks like a state version of the 4473 duplicating the process. Is it supposed to be a state replacement for NICS? TN put its own in place (TICS) instead of using the fed system.

Here's the link to the proposed legislation - http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?131+ful+SB1299

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?131+ful+SB1299+pdf

alsaqr
February 7, 2013, 07:22 AM
You are selling out your members, who when this whole thing implodes because of your incompetence, will turn on you with great ferocity because there will be nothing to lose and no one else to blame for this fiasco.

The national NRA is opposed to universal background checks. The NRA favors strengthening the NICS Improvement Act of 2007 to preclude adjudicated mental cases from obtaining guns through licensed dealers.

Hacker15E
February 7, 2013, 07:53 AM
It is always effective to call someone an SOB when you are trying to influence their actions.

hso
February 7, 2013, 03:41 PM
I still don't see what the concern was. The text of the proposed legislation looks like VA was going to set up a state background system instead of using the national NICS system. This is done in several states that didn't want to sign on to the Fed's system.

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