458. Winchester for Deer


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dirtnap405
January 28, 2013, 09:11 PM
Anybody use a 458. winchester for deer, would I get any expansion? Thanks

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beatledog7
January 28, 2013, 09:22 PM
You could make your deer sausage right there in the field.

Texan Scott
January 28, 2013, 09:24 PM
Try to line them up at least four deep for greater efficiency. :neener:
Great HOGZILLA round, I'm sure.

It's a .458. It's already "expanded" :D

HILLBILLY-06
January 28, 2013, 09:30 PM
Why would anyone one earth want to hunt deer with a "dangerous game" rifle. That's seriously over doing it by a long way. It's intended use is thick skinned large bone mass animals that generally aint real friendly. Will it expand? Yeah when it hits a tree after shooting plum through the deer. Thats when you can expect it to expand.
Get a deer rifle, they are cheaper than most all rifles chambered in dangerous game calibers, and the ammo will be cheaper too. That large round was never intended for deer hunting. One good comparrison to keep in mind, shoot a bicycle with a 120MM Abrams tank... it'd get the jobe done, but wow, really? just hope the bicycle was parked against a serious backstop... LOL.

Joe I
January 28, 2013, 09:31 PM
I can't remember offhand where, but I've read in several places that you can load .458 bullets designed for the .45/70 to .45/70 velocities in the .458 Win Mag and do fine. I seem to remember at least one person mentioning use of a filler in the case since it had a fair amount less powder in it.

There are at least a few people around who consider the .458 Win Mag to be the ultimate 'do-it-all' cartridge, when reloaded to the necessary levels. Think cast bullets and velocities around 1300 fps.

browningguy
January 28, 2013, 09:44 PM
I have, and do use a .458 Winchester on all kinds of thin skinned game. We used to have a sizable group that did a big bore hunt here every year and the minimum caliber was .375 H&H.

I don't have my load book in front of me but I was running a 350gr. FP designed for the 45-70 at about 2300 fps I believe. Worked a charm on deer and pigs. For what it's worth that's almost exactly the same load I usually run in my Browning 1885 45-70.

And hunt with what you want, ignore everyone else.

K1500
January 28, 2013, 09:46 PM
Why not. It sounds great to me, and I don't think I would worry too much about expansion if I were you.

Strongbad
January 28, 2013, 10:09 PM
Considering the bullet is already 45 cal which is as big as most smaller bullets are going to expand to, I don't even see why expansion is an issue. Not to mention big and slow is liable to cause less meat damage. I finally got my 416 Rigby sorted out just this past weekend, and next year I'll be taking it out. Unfortunately this year is pretty much over. :(

Robert
January 28, 2013, 10:13 PM
With the right load, no solids, why not? If you hand load you can load it down nice and light. Heck I Elk hunt with a 375H&H and 270gr bullets. Now if I can only get a nice cow to wander out in front of me...

Not to mention big and slow is liable to cause less meat damage.
Exactly.

Walkalong
January 28, 2013, 10:37 PM
Expansion? Don't know, and it would certainly depend on the bullet used. Kill it? Sure will, as long as you hit them in the boiler room.

Rem700CDLSF3006
January 28, 2013, 10:44 PM
to be honest it will cause less meat damge that a 25-06 270 ect

Liberty1776
January 28, 2013, 10:53 PM
^
what he said...
I used mine with a 500 gr cast bullet, loaded light, for fun. (think of a bolt-action 45-70) Fun to use it and it's a great conversation piece. I will never get to Africa to hunt elephant, but I can sure hunt deer every year. No expansion necessary... and the big white front sight combined with the rear v-leaf, makes a great brush gun combo..

planetmobius
January 29, 2013, 12:08 AM
I have two such rifles and while I have not shot any deer with them, I did kill a blackbear with one. If you handload, the 458 can be loaded to duplicate the 45-70 at any level. So if you would hunt deer with your Marlin 1895, its the same difference with a 458 and the right load. In my case it was a 300 gr HP at about 1700 fps.

303tom
January 29, 2013, 10:56 AM
Anybody use a 458. winchester for deer, would I get any expansion? Thanks
Why would you want too, when a .22 cal. will kill a deer...............

JShirley
January 29, 2013, 11:05 AM
Well, there's legality, ethics, and fun, but nothing important. :rolleyes:

John

dirtnap405
January 29, 2013, 12:07 PM
im sure you could kill a deer with a pellet gun, so why use anything bigger right? Just because you don't need anything bigger to kill a deer, doesn't mean you shouldn't use anything else. I'd prefer to not have my deer run 200 yards on a double lung. thats just me

dprice3844444
January 29, 2013, 12:10 PM
big n fat right through the shoulders should make some nice big through holes for blood trails

RPRNY
January 29, 2013, 01:08 PM
You should get a 444 Marlin instead. They're the best. At everything. All the time. It's true; several people on THR said so. Repeatedly.

adelbridge
January 29, 2013, 03:03 PM
overkill is better than under kill. If you have the gun already use it.

critter
January 29, 2013, 03:28 PM
It should work quite nicely. A .45 colt bullet of hard cast semi-wadcutter penetrates really well without expansion and, when properly placed, will kill deer dead and quickly. As an added bonus, you won't get a log of blood shot ruined meat.

Use bullets like that or you can use bullets like we use in the 45-70. In that old round, I've used 300 gr JHP's (by Remington) on deer and hogs. They WILL let the air out of them post-haste.

You don't need to use full house solids like you are elephant hunting. Easier on you, the gun and still deadly on deer, hogs and even bigger game if you wish.

Heck yeah, your .458 if fine for deer with the right loads. Good luck, have fun and good eating.

natman
January 29, 2013, 03:44 PM
I shot a deer once with a medium strength 458 handload using, IIRC, a 350 grain Hornady RN. Judging by the exit wound I'd say it expanded nicely, but I don't know for sure because it had no problem whatsoever passing completely through the deer and sailing into the far yonder. The deer was DRT.

K1500
January 29, 2013, 09:14 PM
Why would you want to use a .22 when a Chevrolet can kill a deer? Come to think of it, why hunt deer when you can buy beef in the store?

TIMC
January 30, 2013, 12:14 AM
Why not, I've used .50 Beowulf and 45/70 on deer. I don't see what's so bad about .458 Win.

allaroundhunter
January 30, 2013, 12:23 AM
You should get a 444 Marlin instead. They're the best. At everything. All the time. It's true; several people on THR said so. Repeatedly.

I've never said that, but it doesn't mean I don't agree with it :neener:

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g335/ddirks22/2012-10-07095709.jpg

redneck2
January 30, 2013, 06:35 AM
Why would anyone one earth want to hunt deer with a "dangerous game" rifle. That's seriously over doing it by a long way.Most everyone in midwestern states uses a 12 shotgun with slugs. Hundreds of thousands of deer taken every year. Typical is a 12 gauge with sabots. A 12 gauge sabot weighs maybe 480 grains and is going about 1,900 fps muzzle velocity. So, it's different from a .458 how??? Most guys are hunting with a DG firearm, they just don't realize it.

My S-I-L shot a doe last year with my .458 SOCOM. To say it worked exceptionally well would be an understatement. IIRC it was a 350 grain Speer Hot Core. Expansion was perfect. DRT.

I'd agreed with the part about doing more damage with a .25-06 or 30-06. Even a hard cast LSWC would most likely work great. I'm real fond of exit holes. Lets 'em leak faster and any tracking easier.

Krogen
February 1, 2013, 01:21 AM
Download it to 45-70 velocity. It'll take out the deer and not your shoulder. Most 458s are heavy, though. Lugging one around gets old pretty quick.

sixgunner455
February 1, 2013, 12:41 PM
Muzzleloaders, shotguns w/slugs, .45-70, .444, etc, etc, have been killing deer with big fat slugs of lead for ... centuries, some of them. Load that .458 up and go use it. Don't just let it collect dust in the safe!

brnmw
February 1, 2013, 12:52 PM
Anybody use a 458. winchester for deer, would I get any expansion? Thanks

Never used that but I have used .45-70 Gov't. before does just fine. It has a much higher velocity than the .45-70 Gov't. though so I don't think it would really be my first choice IMO.

Elkins45
February 1, 2013, 03:28 PM
overkill is better than under kill.

That is as true a statement as has ever been written regarding cartridge selection. You can always load DOWN But you can't always load UP.

rodinal220
February 1, 2013, 04:28 PM
Why would it need to expand? You wouldn't need to run full power loads.You could load it down to 45-70 trapdoor level loads.

willypete
February 1, 2013, 07:16 PM
As some others have already noted, the only downside I can think of is that .458 Win Mag rifles tend to be heavy. If you're hunting from a stand or a blind, that's not a problem.

jeepnik
February 1, 2013, 07:21 PM
You should get a 444 Marlin instead. They're the best. At everything. All the time. It's true; several people on THR said so. Repeatedly.
Yea, the 444 will work, but, if you're going to go to a levergun (does anyone make a bolt gun in .444?) you might as well provide yourself with a cartridge that has considerably greater unility. Wait for it, wait, wait the 45-70.:evil:

The eternaly .444 vs 45-70 debate can now begin.:rolleyes:

Seriously, you can easily load a .458 down to 45-70 velocities and using either lighter jacketed bullets or hard cast lead designed for the 45-70 (they are the same diameter as the .458)have a round that would work well on deer.

oldpapps
February 1, 2013, 07:24 PM
I used a .375 H&H. Is that close enough.

I loaded 285 grains lead to about 1800 FPS and used a Ruger Number 1. One shot, a little high, broadside, snipped the spine and dropped without a step. What I imagined a broom handle would make if it passes through. Don't think the slug expanded, it was long gone and nothing gave any indication of any expansion. Tastee.

Fleetman
February 2, 2013, 09:20 AM
As said, use what you want and/or have. A .458 is not the Hammer of Thor that the uninitiated think it is and someone else posted that it will do less meat damage than an expanding .25-06.....very true.

You could download it but I think you'll do just fine with a Hornady soft point.....a solid will work fine also.

There will be a bunch of naysayers in here but use what YOU want. However, if you really need to ask this question then maybe you don't have one?

I've heard a lot of people say a .50BMG will absolutely vaporize a deer......BS! A .50BMG simply passes straight through with minimal meat damage....other then the 1/2" hole that is often less than the expanded aforementioned .25-06.

I was salivating at the thought of taking down a dead, insect and woodpecker-ridden tree next to my backstop with the .50 but was pretty disappointed when ten 660 grain rounds just sailed straight through...the same with several pumpkins. A .22WRM did MUCH more damage to the pumpkins than the 50 did.

Krogen
February 2, 2013, 09:54 AM
Good points, Fleetman. It also depends on the bullet selection. Believe me, at .458 velocities, a 350 gr Hornady soft point will expand and a 300 gr Sierra hollow point will come apart. Both will impart a lot of energy into the target. Always wanted to explode a rockchuck with that 300 gr slug. . . . :barf:

For giggles, my buds and I used a .458 to blow up 5 gallon metal paint cans filled with water. The crimped-on lid would generally fly up 6-7 feet and the sides of the can would swell 3-4" all around. Often the side would split. It took lighter, softer slugs to do this. Stoutly constructed 500 grain solids and soft points just poked a hole in both sides of the can with zero drama.

Walkalong
February 2, 2013, 03:14 PM
I have shot a milk jug full of water with my .458 and it simply exploded into tiny fragments and a million water droplets. Nothing really left to recover.

Fleetman
February 2, 2013, 03:20 PM
No doubt.....same thing with a .204, .30-06, etc, etc, etc. A lot also depends on how full the jug is too...a little air space will tear the jug apart; a full jug gets it blown into pieces.

sixgunner455
February 3, 2013, 03:55 PM
Fleetman - try shooting watermelons with that .50 BMG. About 100 yards, military ball = Bright red cloud of mist in all directions, as I recall.

Fleetman
February 3, 2013, 04:28 PM
Yep....seen it.....don't know why watermelons explode so dramatically unless it's because of greater water content. Watermelons are scarce to shoot at here though unless I buy them but we have a BUMPER crop of pumpkins every year. Most of ours are wild and we throw a few old ones to the sides of our range so targets just keep growing.

One thing I've noticed is turkeys absolutely LOVE pumpkin guts!

raindog
February 3, 2013, 04:48 PM
As said, use what you want and/or have. A .458 is not the Hammer of Thor that the uninitiated think it is

I think Thor would use a .950 JDJ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.950_JDJ).

mr.trooper
February 3, 2013, 05:24 PM
Sure ... Just make sure you fill the case with TrailBoss. That may get the muzzle velocity down to around Trap-Door 45-70 territory. Good enough for the deer, and probably wont kick at all out of a heavy Safari rifle.

Walkalong
February 3, 2013, 05:39 PM
A case full of Trail Boss and a Hornady 350 Gr SP will get about 1175 FPS. Not quite .44 Mag from a pistol power. probably wont kick at all out of a heavy Safari rifle.Kind of a "poot" and that's it.


AA 5744 will get you .45-70 performance.

rugerman
February 3, 2013, 05:42 PM
I shoot a 300gr bullet in my 45-70 at about 1950 fps it does a real good job on deer and you can eat right up to the hole (little meat damage) I bet a loaded down 458 would do a similar job. Use what you got, dead is dead, no such thing as over dead.

mr.trooper
February 3, 2013, 07:04 PM
A case full of Trail Boss and a Hornady 350 Gr SP will get about 1175 FPS. Not quite .44 Mag from a pistol power.

Ahh, very good. I haven't reviewed my data for Trail Boss in some time, but I figured it would get you somewhere in the 1,200fps range.

willypete
February 5, 2013, 01:53 AM
I shoot a 300gr bullet in my 45-70 at about 1950 fps it does a real good job on deer and you can eat right up to the hole (little meat damage) I bet a loaded down 458 would do a similar job. Use what you got, dead is dead, no such thing as over dead.

Which 300 grain bullet? I've been wanting to try the 300 JHP from Remington on a deer, loaded to about that velocity.

TexasPatriot.308
February 5, 2013, 02:16 AM
I prefer a larger caliber myself for deer.

Lloyd Smale
February 5, 2013, 07:32 AM
ive killed exactly two deer with my old #1 458 so am far from an expert. One with a 500 grain cast bullet at about 1700 fps and one with a hornady jacketed soft point 500 grain at a max book load and neither tore up a thing and killed with no muss or fuss. About the same effect as doing the same with a 4570. Why do it? because i had the gun and didnt forsee me shooting any elephants with it in the near future!

foghornl
February 5, 2013, 08:01 AM
If you 'roll your own' ammo, sure.

If full-house factory .458Mag ammo is all that you have....uhhhmmm maybe not

Hokkmike
February 5, 2013, 10:29 AM
You can shoot and clean the deer at the same time. (LOL)

Seriously, I'd be less concerned about the impact on the game (I'm sure the gun will do the job and then some) but rather I'd ask, - why make your shoulder take an unnecessary beating?

I have a friend who used to hunt groundhogs with a .300 Win. Magnum. He now, in his older age, looks back on this decision with regret.

But, if you are OK with it - enjoy!!!

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