Hoarding is getting to me!


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exbrit49
January 28, 2013, 11:01 PM
Hoarding is getting to me!
I have always been an avid shooter and I visit the range twice a week. I use quite a lot of ammo in various calibers and that’s fine, however, my wife, loves to target shoot but suffers from some physical disabilities. She shoots .22 as that is all she can handle. Unfortunately within 6 to 8 months the progressive disabilities will bring an end to her shooting , and therein lies the source of my ire. . I always had enough .22 on hand to keep her shooting about 8 weeks and now she is down to a two week supply and there are no signs of being able to get any more for her in the foreseeable future. The reason is simple! “ Hoarders” grabbing everything of the shelves . so much so that now there are real zero stock situations all over the country
I know that many are worried about future supplies of ammo but it galls me to overhear comments like “Yes I have a 5 year supply stocked away” or “Yep I have 10,000 rounds. I have even seen the posts here too, gloating that they have a 10 year suppy. I don’t begrudge them their “stash” But what I do see as a crying shame, is that some individuals are like the "king in his counting house!" Sitting and counting their stash of ammo every night! Many of them are Once in a Blue moon shooters and vary rarely even go to the range.

I went to a gun show Sunday and a guy there had about 10 boxes of federal .22 LR and was asking $7.00 a box of 50.These are the Federal that Wal-Mart sold for $1.97. I would not and could not pay $7.00. Luckily my views were shared by the other show attendees, as at the end of the show, he still had them stacked up on his table. He also had his Small pistol primers too. He wanted $7.50 a hundred for those and there were no takers! Please don’t post responses about a free market. I am fully aware of the opportunities the current situation offers some individuals! But I don’t have to like it!
Luckily for my own shooting I reload everything I need and always keep as much as possible as I can, as I shoot so much. I think there is a difference between hoarding and having stock on hand to USE!
We are going to the range tomorrow, to see if she can handle some .380 that I have light loaded that will hopefully cycle, and just hope her hands can handle the more powerful cartridge. I don’t think this is going to work but she is game to try.

Just wanted to say a sarcastic thank you to the real hoarders! Have fun gloating and counting it all every night! Also thanks to the opportunists buying everything they can lay their hands on to resell at an excessive profit.:fire:

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firesky101
January 28, 2013, 11:07 PM
I am by no means a hoarder, but I have some put back for the droughts. If I were near you I would gladly sell you a brick for what I paid for it. Your situation certainly sounds warranted. I feel for you, I got stuck in a similar situation in 2008.

Gordon_Freeman
January 28, 2013, 11:09 PM
I saw the writing on the wall 4 years ago and got prepared for this. No offense, but maybe you should have too. Instead of blaming other shooters, blame the guys in the white house.

TanklessPro
January 28, 2013, 11:11 PM
I understand your frustration. You may want to try 38, I like to shoot 38 a whole lot better than 380.
I don't want to sound insensitive, but did you try to build your own "stockpile" before the mad rush?
After living through the 08 rush, I sworn to not be without.
I'm a little far from you but maybe some other highroaders could chip in at a reasonable price. Just a thought.

ColtPythonElite
January 28, 2013, 11:13 PM
Been buying more than I shoot for years and often because it was a deal. I have ammo I have owned for 20+ years. Yep, I reckon I am a hoarder and offer no apologies.

exbrit49
January 28, 2013, 11:18 PM
Yes guys we kept an 8 week supply on hand for her at all times.
After Sandy Hook, Walmart and even my LGS couldnt keep stock I bought as much as I could get but as we DO shoot it, it runs out!
As noted, I shoot many calibers and reload everything I have plenty of all my calibers on hand and also have plenty of reloading supplies on hand. Its the .22 that has me puzzled. Its a target caliber and not a defence round. I did not expect to see it cleaned out.
Ok so I am guilty of not being greedy and buying every thing in the store, I just bought enough to keep replacing what she used.

forindooruseonly
January 28, 2013, 11:23 PM
I've got a couple of federal bulk packs ill send ya for what I've got in it, it's not enough to last but it might keep her going a few more weeks. PM me if you want.

12131
January 28, 2013, 11:24 PM
OP, I'm sorry, but what is your suggestion of what folks need to do? Make some rules that you can only buy 1 ammo box a week, or maybe 1 box a month? Who will make the rules? The government? The NRA? How about let the private businesses make their own rules regarding purchase quantities?

Does it ever occur to you that a lot of folks are prepared and have been accumulating over the years, because they saw the writing on the wall? Yeah, I'm one of them. I don't gloat about it, but I'm not gonna apologize for it, either.

What about the massive influx of totally new shooters, and they also bought the ammo?

Seriously man, these kinds of ranting threads are getting tiresome.

Gordon_Freeman
January 28, 2013, 11:24 PM
I noticed that .22 rounds were also hard to find in 2009. That's why I got prepared.

ole farmerbuck
January 28, 2013, 11:25 PM
I started a thread here a while back about the shortage of 22's and was told there wasnt a shortage. One guy said instead of sitting at the computer and typing i should be looking for some. I did, and i dont plan on having to buy any more! Most people saw it leaving the shelves but didnt bother to buy any. So yes I guess i'm a hoarder too. A happy one at that!

Arkansas Paul
January 28, 2013, 11:29 PM
I don’t begrudge them their “stash”

Just wanted to say a sarcastic thank you to the real hoarders! Have fun gloating and counting it all every night!

Funny, begrudging peoples' stash seems to be exactly what you're doing.

This happens pretty regularly though. Anybody who has more than you is a hoarder who is doing everyone a disservice, and anyone who has less than you is a drooling moron for not being prepared.

cfullgraf
January 28, 2013, 11:37 PM
I saw the writing on the wall 4 years ago and got prepared for this. No offense, but maybe you should have too. Instead of blaming other shooters, blame the guys in the white house.

Yes. Incumbents usually get re-elected and with the state of the Republican party, I figured the Democrats would hold the White House and 2013 would be another shortage year.

I spent the last few years buying a little extra at a time to get me through a similar shortage period as was experienced in 2009.

bigfatdave
January 28, 2013, 11:45 PM
Hey, that sucks.

And when I was scrambling to buy overpriced crap ammo last time there was a shortage, I started a "buy 3 shoot 1" policy on all common cartridges that I stock.

Perhaps someone near you will be willing to sell you some of their stockpile - at a price you&they agree on.

savanahsdad
January 29, 2013, 12:00 AM
Hey great job On passing up the $7.00 22lr soon as everbody starts doing that the faster the prices will drop,
I would spend $20.00 on gas and drive out of town to some small town hardware store where there still $1.75, before I'd give some rip-off artest $7.00
any small hardware stores neer you? , city horders seem to forget them

PedalBiker
January 29, 2013, 12:06 AM
When supplies are short I shoot a lot less and suddenly my inventory lasts a lot longer. When gas was $4 per gallon I drove less too.

If you're going to call people hoarders you need to realize that unless you are a JITer like Wall Mart you are one too.

(JIT) stands for Just In Time = modern invention of MBAs who only care about saving $$

For my wife I load 125g Ranier plated bullets with 3g of Trail Boss in a .38sp. It's not as light as .22, but it's pretty gentle.

I'm a bit low on .22 myself, so I'm saving it for the kids.

ddc
January 29, 2013, 12:16 AM
This happens pretty regularly though. Anybody who has more than you is a hoarder who is doing everyone a disservice, and anyone who has less than you is a drooling moron for not being prepared.

I like that. :)

I guess that makes me a drooling moronic hoarder; if I conserve I might have enough 9mm to get by for a while but more than a little short on everything else... oh, well...just have to make the best of it and don't make the same mistake again.

I've already made appointments in my Outlook email for several times in 2015 and 2016 to remind me. Hopefully this shortage will be over by then but the next one won't have started yet.

wriggly
January 29, 2013, 12:37 AM
During the last AWB I never had an AR or an AK, and I lived just fine. Then a few years ago, I picked up a Maadi AK and had a good time shooting cheap ammo for a time. I got bored with it, and passed it on to another gunowner.

Then this past September, I finally bought an AR. First one since my SP1's from the late 70's. I bought a scope for it with a LaRue QD mount, and an Aimpoint T1 on a LaRue also. I had a decent collection of pmags, around 15, and I was having fun with it. Then came Sandy Hook, and the whole nonsense panic scramble for guns and ammo. I found that I was making more trips to gun stores and Walmart hoping to grab more ammo.

It dawned on me yesterday, its nuts, and I will not be part of the insanity. I sold my AR today, and most of the ammo as well. I still have a few Pmags on Armslist, and I saved a couple hundred rounds of .556 to give my son in law for his upcoming birthday. I sold my Smith & Wesson AR for $1300, and 1500 rounds of 5.56 for $750. I got so many emails I could not answer them all.

I am done with it for now. I am retired, and in the coming months ahead, I will be buying a new home and at least 50 acres in a more gun free state than this crap hole I live in, and then I may revisit this whole AR 15 thing again.

GKR333
January 29, 2013, 12:46 AM
Im not a hoarder, I just try to keep several k in primers, projectiles and powder to shoot for atleast a year or so on hand for the main calibers that I shoot

Someone mentioned, blame the white house, I look at it a lil different, they didnt get there by themselves

Lets hope things smooth out and get back to normal soon, but I have a feeling it is going to be a rocky road

Queen_of_Thunder
January 29, 2013, 02:17 AM
Well he still has the ammo but you can't shoot because you have none.
You and others have yo decide if you want to shoot or not.

I had a table at a local gun show and people complained about the prices. I told them I couldn't even replace the ammo I was selling at the same price I was selling for provided it was available and frankly its not. I also pointed out that at best you could get one box of ammo per day from LGS but you could buy in quantity from me plus my selection of 22lr ran from single boxes of 50 to 550 round boxes. Its not like anyone else had what I had and its not my fault people failed to keep an adequate ammo supply on hand.

mastiffhound
January 29, 2013, 02:49 AM
What part of Indiana do you live? Do you live anywhere close to Ohio? Do any laws say that you can't sell or transport ammo from one state to another?

cheeze
January 29, 2013, 03:18 AM
Do you put up firewood before winter hits? Do you get fixings for Christmas dinner before Christmas eve? How about buying a set of tires before yours get so thin they pop? You see a need arising in the future and you prepare for it. If you didn't, it's not the fault of the people who did.

Ignition Override
January 29, 2013, 03:31 AM
exbrit49:
Imagine after the '08-'09 panic that you received your first reloading gear from Sinter Klaus und Rudolf (a Lee Single-).

That January you go look for just 100 primers, but can't find them. My brother found about 300 up in Evansville for me.
Good luck out there.

wriggly: you will find a decent deal when many people who bought ARs, but did not want/need them realize that they have more pressing needs.
Their taxes will also go up, and not just to pay the many hidden costs of ObamaCare. The need for more cash will increase.
Workers who soon see their hours cut, to limit their employers' new health cost increases, will also sell something.

w9trb
January 29, 2013, 03:34 AM
Just buy a pellet rifle or pistol. There is plenty of ammo and prices are reasonable.

olderguns
January 29, 2013, 03:34 AM
I know it's not same but have you thought of getting your a Good air gun, some of the rifles are quite powerful, and the pump pistols are great, and if the pumps are too much try the. C02 ones, with air guns you get trigger time and breath control practice, plus they're just dang fun.^^^^^someone beat me ^^^^

hueyville
January 29, 2013, 03:52 AM
Exbrit49, if you were close would hook you up with a brick. My rule for over 30 years has been buy a box or brick of 22 rimfire every time I go in a store that sells it. I shoot 100 to 150 rounds of it per week minimum. Bullet trap at work and in basement. Nothing but keeping muscle memory super sharp on trigger control. Everytime went into Wallyworld bought 1 to 5 of those 375 round boxes of automatch. Stunning ammo for the price. Some weeks shoot an entire box of the stuff. Hate it your wifes shooting career may be ending. Doc just told my wife no more heavy recoil guns.

Switched her out to a .243 rifle for time being till my smith can build her something custom with a muzzle brake to fit her frame. Probably a 6mm PPC as can taylor loads for her to do most what she wants. For her 20 gauge Benelli Nova Pump I changed it to Aguila 1.5" mini buckshot shells for home defense. Light gun way its configured and those short shells virtually no recoil and it holds 6 + 1. Took her Khar 9mm compact and .3" .38 carry guns and replaced with a .380 Sig and a Smith & Wesson .22 mag PD. Almost 900 bucks for a 7 shot snubby rimfire revolver but worth every dime considering how light the scandium frame is and 22 mag easy to manage in that light of a pistol.

Having her a custom 380 with a compensator built. My pistolsmith is ordering parts now. Going to take an ultra compact 380 put a compensator on it for a semicompact carry pistol. He is also going to build her a full size version of same caliber on lightweight polymer hi-capacity frame with full length slide and comp. Basically a baby IPSC pistol for her to pop caps in. Now just have to set up one of my Dillon progressives with caliber conversion kit in 380 to keep her pistols fed. If wife no part of the hobby it limits my time to shoot.

That said you can see I take my wifes needs seriously. Same with mine/ours. As cheap as bulk pack 22 has traditionally been no reason not to have a stockpile. This is not the.first nor will it be the last run. Our LGS's are getting rimfire in every week but it goes quick. Go to your shop and explain situation. If they don't sit you.some aside next shipment then find new gun store. My rule is less than 100k of rimfire and I am out. Been nice.weather round here and we went through a full brick on Sunday. When you have such a specific need stay months or years ahead. If you pay shipping will send you a brick at my cost.

larryh1108
January 29, 2013, 06:31 AM
There is a difference between being prepared and hoarding.

Being prepared: Buying 3, shooting 1 for years. Stocking up on sales while shooting less than you buy. Knowing upcoming events (elections, etc) and buying ahead. Being prepared, if you can afford it, is smart and saves you a lot of money and you aren't in the cold when a shortage occurs.

Hoarding: Being prepared as mentioned above but when a short-term crisis arises they go out and clean off the shelves because they can. They may have a year's supply on hand or 10 years but they don't care about the new guy or the guy who couldn't afford to stock up in any quantity. Hoarders are me first and screw you if you weren't prepared. They could leave some for other shooters but they don't. They only care about themselves.

Russ Jackson
January 29, 2013, 06:41 AM
Sell some of your reloads at an inflated price to compensate for the high price of 22 cal. Or trade.

Hacker15E
January 29, 2013, 06:43 AM
When did being prepared become such a bad thing?

Seems only to be the feeling amongst people who aren't prepared themselves.

ccsniper
January 29, 2013, 06:44 AM
Been buying more than I shoot for years and often because it was a deal. I have ammo I have owned for 20+ years. Yep, I reckon I am a hoarder and offer no apologies.

this. When I buy ammo, I buy two boxes, one for keepin one for plinkin. You should do the same. Buy it when its cheap, or regret it when its not.

45_auto
January 29, 2013, 06:50 AM
Being prepared as mentioned above but when a short-term crisis arises

Was it your your crystal ball or your Ouija board that told you that this is a "short-term" crisis?

What is the end date, if you don't mind sharing it with those of us who are not as omnipotent as you?

Are you aware of any of the laws that are currently proposed, or have been passed in the case of New York? What does your crystal ball say that the price of ammo is going to do since every purchase has to go through an FFL?

They may have a year's supply on hand or 10 years but they don't care about the new guy or the guy who couldn't afford to stock up in any quantity.

Interesting viewpoint. I shouldn't buy a Corvette because you can't afford one? I shouldn't have purchased gold when it was $300 per ounce because you didn't want any?

pockets
January 29, 2013, 06:59 AM
I stocked up.....I DO NOT HOARD.
As has been said, there is a big difference between 'hoarding' and simply 'preparing'.
With .22LR; I know I am going to shoot the stuff someday, I know it'll never get cheaper than it was a few years ago, and I know it'll be fresh far longer than I will.
Over the years I would buy bricks of my favorite brands of .22LR whenever they were on sale. And whenever in Walmart, I'd buy a few 100-packs of CCI Miini-Mags.

However.....in the time it took to type this, I could have found bricks of .22LR online and bought it already.
.

JRWhit
January 29, 2013, 07:09 AM
I don't think comments by Exbrit where aimed at regular shooters though a lot of people feel stepped on here. I share some of his frustrations. Mine are not with regular participators of the shooting sport. The frustration lies with the people who may nearly never, or in some cases never, have been a regular shooter who now senselessly feel the need to buy up every last box of ammo they can possibly find on the shelf. It makes me wonder how many people out there have have multiple boxes of ammo in which they don't even have a firearm that shoots. This makes it frustrating for regulars when their cycle gets interrupted by a mad dash, by people who normally have nothing to do with shooting, to own the most. Doesn't mean I think any manufacturer or retailer should regulate it, just to say, I see it as unfortunate. I believe firmly in the idea of a free people to self regulate. Such is the example of all the people in this forum who have offered Exbrit some of there own. Many shooters keep a healthy supply of stock all the time, and that's not the cause of frustration. The cause are the ones with little to do with shooting and feel the need to buy up every last box of anything without a rhyme or reason.

larryh1108
January 29, 2013, 07:13 AM
Was it your your crystal ball or your Ouija board that told you that this is a "short-term" crisis?

What is the end date, if you don't mind sharing it with those of us who are not as omnipotent as you?

Are you aware of any of the laws that are currently proposed, or have been passed in the case of New York? What does your crystal ball say that the price of ammo is going to do since every purchase has to go through an FFL?

How many short-term shortages have we had in the last 10-20 years? Did I miss legislation banning the sale of ammo or an ammo tax? NYS has their issues but this is nationwide, not just NYS. My crystal ball says it will pass like all the other ones have passed. It happened last time Obama was elected and it happened this time. Crystal ball? Yeah, sure. We've also had other mass shootings. As tragic as they are, the panic buying lasts short term. What happened this time to say we won't get back to a norm?

You can go buy your Corvette. Buy them all if you wish. What does that have to do with being able to afford ammo? So, when we have the next gas crunch, go out and buy every Corvette you can because you can. I am happy for you. Nice analogy, yep.

BSA1
January 29, 2013, 08:45 AM
I wrote long replies to posts #1 and #26 but then realize I was just feeding into their ranting and name calling.

It is sad to see THR members start name calling and pointing the blame at someone simply because they have more than them.

larryh1108
January 29, 2013, 08:49 AM
If you understand what is being said, it's not that someone has more than another. It is when in times of uncertainty, some people clean off the shelves and leave nothing for the others. Why do people continue to say it's about having more when it's about not being considerate of others when the chances are you will not come close to running out of ammo once the crisis passes. If there was a permanent ban on ammo sales then that is a different story. We're talking about another mini-crisis that will pass in time. Huge difference.

benEzra
January 29, 2013, 09:03 AM
I went to a gun show Sunday and a guy there had about 10 boxes of federal .22 LR and was asking $7.00 a box of 50.These are the Federal that Wal-Mart sold for $1.97. I would not and could not pay $7.00.
The problem, then, is that other people want that .22LR more than you do, and are willing to pay more for it. That's the law of supply and demand.

.22LR is no longer priced for a low-demand, abundant-supply market because we are no longer in that market. The new prices reflect current market conditions, and those conditions are not likely to change for a while.

TIMC
January 29, 2013, 10:07 AM
I'm a horder I guess and you are quite welcome. We all make choices in life and 8 weeks ammo supply was a bad choice. I am happy with nothing to really say about the current situation except for it will pass and I am stocked up well enough to make it through. That was a good choice, see how it works?

45_auto
January 29, 2013, 10:49 AM
If there was a permanent ban on ammo sales then that is a different story. We're talking about another mini-crisis that will pass in time.

The ATF was taking comments on proposed additional ammo restrictions through the end of 2012. I haven't heard anything on the outcome from those yet.

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/12/batfe-taking-comments-on-a-pending-ban-ammo/#axzz2JNZhnzNr

How much time will it be before your "mini-crisis" passes? What if there is a Sandy Hook copy-cat shooting next week? There's going to be another tragedy sooner or later, no way you can stop crazy. The only questions are how long it will be before it happens and what useless laws will be passed in response?

It's very possible that the current prices and availability are the best conditions for buying ammo you'll ever see in your lifetime. Apparently a lot of people think that way, that's what's keeping prices up and availability down.

JustinJ
January 29, 2013, 10:52 AM
I think it reflects negatively on us(the gun community) that many are so paranoid as to think .22 lr will be banned.

Queen_of_Thunder
January 29, 2013, 11:27 AM
I paid 50 cents a round for 45acp yesterday. Simply outrageous but 3 years from now I will be wishing to I could buy it at that price.

Buy now because we will be going through this again.

nathan
January 29, 2013, 11:36 AM
No time to gripe now, it was forthcoming long time ago. If you didnt stock up, then just have to deal with it.

nathan
January 29, 2013, 11:40 AM
The underrated .22 LRs before preSandy Hook period were pretty much underrated of all things . NOw its the king ! Im glad i got some to get me through this dry period. The sale of Ruger 22 pistols are up since Dec 14. Naturally everyone s trying to find ways to beat the craze on 5.56s , 9mms, etc.

mikechandler
January 29, 2013, 12:02 PM
Cheer up, it will eventually even out again. Right now there are many Americans who ignored their 2nd Amendment Rights, until it became apparent that some of our elected officials want to take them away. In a panic, they are now gearing up - and many long time shooters, who did not build up a store of supplies, are doing so now. But it won't last forever.

When it does return to some level of normality - do yourself a favor. Every paycheck, set aside money for shooting supplies - and make sure some portion (any amount is fine) is for building a stockpile (ammo or loading supplies that will not be used in the immediate future). After a couple years you will be amazed at how much stuff you've laid up, and the next time things get crazy, you can coast through it without an issue, or if you deem it's appropriate, throw some of it back on the market, and easily recoup the cost of your entire stockpile with a small portion of it.

Preparedness vs. Panic, and Winning vs. Whining!

BGB
January 29, 2013, 02:46 PM
Old Rimfire Ammo can loss its puch even if kept in climate control indoors.
I had CCI 22mag solid points fire strong and weak all from the same 50 count box.
they have been inside in AC home for the last 5 years or more.

RetiredUSNChief
January 29, 2013, 02:59 PM
Ummm...I think there's a difference between "hoarding" and "stocking up".

For example there were a number of years where I was not able to do much target shooting, if any. This was back in the days when WWB 9mm was $9.95/box and WWB .45 acp was $19.95/box at Walmart.

One of the major irritants for me is to have to buy ammunition when I decide to go out shooting. It just makes it seem more expensive that way (purely psychological). So I decided that, even if I weren't shooting as much, whenever I went to Walmart and had an extra $10 or $20 bucks, I'd buy at lease one box of ammunition.

The goal was to fill one ammo can for each caliber.

After I did that, I started to do the same for .22 WMR. I never did that for .22 LR, mostly because it seemed silly at that time when I could buy a 550 round box for less than $5. Maybe I'll change my tune now, but we'll see.

Over the course of 2-3 years of doing this, I has one ammo can full of each caliber.

I now consider that my "revolving stock". I want to go shooting, I grab a few boxes and go. In between times, I buy a box here and there to stock it back up.

I don't think that's hoarding. I think that's planning.

That said, I'm a Hoosier born and bred, though I now live in South Carolina after retiring from the Navy. If I should happen to visit family back home, I would not object to bringing you a box or two of my stash for whatever the estimated cost for me was (I don't have receipts for them). Heck, I'd toss you a box just for being a range buddy if I were close to you.

:):)

BSA1
January 29, 2013, 03:28 PM
If you understand what is being said, it's not that someone has more than another. It is when in times of uncertainty, some people clean off the shelves and leave nothing for the others.

So what? My obiligation is to my family and myself, not you or anyone else.

Why do people continue to say it's about having more when it's about not being considerate of others when the chances are you will not come close to running out of ammo once the crisis passes.

Why do you save money in the bank? After all chances are the economy will remain strong and you have more money saved than you will never need it in a crisis.

If there was a permanent ban on ammo sales then that is a different story. We're talking about another mini-crisis that will pass in time. Huge difference.

Since you are so confident why is this a issue for you? After all it is just a minor convenience.

hueyville
January 29, 2013, 04:15 PM
45 auto wrote:
Was it your your crystal ball or your Ouija board that told you that this is a "short-term" crisis?

What is the end date, if you don't mind sharing it with those of us who are not as omnipotent as you?


Last week two of my dealers and yesterday a third said that from their perspective as retailers the artificial bubble has burst. They are restocking for the third or fourth time and the stuff is not flying off the shelves like it had been. They are already seeing guns that went out six weeks ago coming back. Some of the panic crowd that hit every gun show, retailer and online store they could have their credit card bills hitting. Here, the price of an SKS on the shelf has dropped 140 bucks from its peak. AR-15's have dropped about the same. These panic buyers are already seeing the shelves fill up, the prices adjusting and are freaking out over losing out on their investment made in a time of panic. Some are already trying to cash back out before their is another price drop back toward pre panic levels and they have to pay another months interest on their cards.

I was selling two to four SKS rifles a week up till two weeks ago. What the market is paying today compared to three weeks ago in private sales locally has gone down to a point where I will hold my remaining Combloc rifles to the next panic. Yes, there will be more of these incidents. So once the market normalizes somewhat, you regular consumers that got caught this time need to take heed and buy at a rate that will give you enough stock to get through each price bubble without feeling left out from participating in your chosen activity.

I have been buying all things gun, ammo, reloading related for 30 years. My minimum stock is to have enough ammo and components to shoot for at least 3 to 5 years if a significant shortage were to occur. I have an emergency lot backing that up of inventory that is not to be shot unless we reach a time in our society it is necessary for survival. That said, been able to continue shooting for past two months as if nothing has happened. Still get my monthly stocking order from my LGS of reloading components regular as clockwork. He knows what I need a year ahead and has my needs planned in his rolling stock.

Your screen name is 45 auto... I personally shoot a minimum of 150 rounds of .45 acp every week and some weeks double that. Casting my own bullets out of wheel weights and at today's price for scrap lead, powder and primers it costs me 6.50 per 100 rounds to roll my own. At the local indoor range .45 acp range ammo is 20.00 per 50 round box. to shoot 100 rounds of their ammo versus mine is a 33.50 price difference. Plus I am loading with components bought at half current prices as part of my 30 year old restocking program. By the time I get to shooting the primers and powder I am buying now, it will be a bargain by those days standards.

Stored properly ammo and reloading supplies will last more than a lifetime. I "found" a box with five pounds of Bullseye powder a week or so ago. That will make about 2,000 rounds of .38 plinkers per pound. Price on the bottles was 7.95 per pound. Cracked a can, loaded a few and shot perfectly. Due to its age I moved this powder to front of rotation. At that price when it got stored, it is 0.004 cents per round for 38 special rounds. The math shows 20 cents a box for my powder. Costs me 0.006 to cast 140 grain SWC currently. Primers I am using were purchased when they were 14.00 per 1,000 comes to 0.014 per primer. So busting my .38 target loads this week are costing me less than 3 cents a round for 38 or 1.20 per box. I choose to put back and keep control of my inventory rather than the whims of the general public and the retailers dictate my activity.

Last night I put two 100 round boxes of 45 acp and two 100 round boxes of .38 special and a 250 rounds of 22 lr into my ammo box for this weeks allotment as weather is nice and have some extra time to shoot. So 400 rounds of center fire handgun ammo and 250 rimfire with price of .59 box marked has my weekly ammo cost at less than 20 bucks for a total of 650 rounds. Instead of riding around like a chicken missing his head looking for a bullet, I will be relaxing at the range slinging lead and making smoke.

Am I a hoarder? NO! I am a shooter and put the effort in so that not only can I shoot all I want this week, I can next month, next year or 5 years from now even if no gun shop in America gets a box of bullets or a can or powder for the next three years or more. I buy in bulk, on a regular schedule, in advance so that I can afford to enjoy shooting instead of posting on BBS's trying to find a 50 count box of 22 lr.

Same reason after Katrina and everyone in the south was lining up for fuel and paying triple when a station happened to get a few gallons to sell. I pulled up to my own pump filled up my truck and had enough fuel to get through the shortage without freaking out. Common sense and the facts tell us that our supply lines in America are overtaxed and not prepared for any type of shortage or run. Average city has three days food supply in the stores. What do the same folks looking for a bullet do if the trucks stop restocking the grocery store? Starve? If the toilet paper factory burns are folks going to have to wipe their butt with the Sears catalog? Wait, its online now so it would be hard to wipe with a computer monitor. Go to the U.S. FEMA website and take the course entitled "A citizens guide to emergency preparedness". Y'all will be shocked at how ragged the edge our society is riding every day. When loaf of bread costs 50 bucks if you can find it is it going to be unfair that I put a 50 pound bag of flour in a can and can put it in my bread making machine and eat a sandwich while others are starving? When the electric grid goes down during a regular winter ice storm is it fair to my neighbors that my whole house generator which runs off a buried 1,000 gallon tank of propane kicks on within seven seconds and while other sit in the cold and dark we make microwave popcorn and watch movies? No you don't have to be rich to live like this. All it takes is prioritizing your life. My wife and I have not been out to eat in 3.5 years. While most couples are blowing 75 bucks to go to Red Lobster or Longhorns on Friday night, we fix a nice dinner at home and use the money saved to put something we may need in a box, can or bottle. While some are paying 100 plus a month for cable TV we watch free high def off an antenna on the chimney. While most are leasing a car or trading every 4 to 5 years I service our heavy duty trucks faithfully and the money saved by getting 500,000 miles per truck before buying new puts a 1,000 gallon tank of diesel and another of premium fuel underground. When the time for the new truck comes we have saved the cash and don't have to give some finance company thousands of dollars to drive out truck. making payments to yourself on the front end is cheaper than making them to someone else with interest on the back end. Is that hoarding? No, it is being responsible to see that my family is cared for in the event of any foreseeable shortage. We can eat, drive and shoot our guns. So when ammo returns to the store folks can learn the lesson and buy an extra box or two when they go to put back for the next bubble or they can only buy what they plan to shoot and be in the same situation again next time. I do feel for some of you and have actually given away, traded and sold quite a bit of ammo lately to help others. But every dime will be put aside to restock for next shortage. People can choose to live at the whim of the supply chain and its hiccups or they can put just a tad of effort into being a few months to a year ahead of the game. Everyone gets to make their own choice.

Ignition Override
January 29, 2013, 05:39 PM
When the Lee-Enfield bug first bit me in early '09, I bought not only one of the last cases of .303 ('43 English) surplus from Samco, but also asked a friend about it. His friend sold me a fair batch.
This stuff has barely been touched, because it is long-term emergency ammo for when I retire and maybe Prvi imports (for reloading) will be heavily taxed, or banned.

hueyville: that's superb preparation for any event.
My wife would need refrig. insulin on a frequent bases. That's why being worried about which guns to own is academic (there would be no deer left outside the city edges anyway). Those "s***" debates about whether to have an M-1A vs. AR are the silliest arguments I've ever read, prompted by too many re-runs of "The Road Warrior"/"--Thunderdome", "The Postman" and "Red Dawn" etc.

fiddleharp
January 29, 2013, 05:56 PM
If you think this is something, wait until there is no food to be found on store shelves!
Can't possibly happen here?
That's what I used to think about ammo and 30-cents a gallon gasoline.
Anybody who hasn't been "prepping" for years is a fool!

mrvco
January 29, 2013, 07:22 PM
I know this won't be a popular view here, but I've gotta say it...

The dark side to the hoarding is that there are countless people trying to either get into shooting or get back into shooting and the lack of and/or exorbitantly priced ammunition is making it difficult to add those new voices to our cause.

I was out running some errands this afternoon and while I was getting gas, there was a fella ranting about how he is continuing to "stock up" on ammo... while standing on one's porch expending 20k rounds of ammo fighting off endless hoards of federal shock troops trying to forcibly take away your rights is a rather bombastic fantasy... I think that rather than continuing to hoard more and more ammunition, we'd be a lot better off taking friends and family shooting or just leaving the ammo on the shelf for those that actually "need" it, adding new shooters (read: Like-minded Voters) to our ranks will be far more valuable to our cause than filling our homes with a decade or two's supply of range ammunition and as a result alienating any potential new participants in our sport.

pa350z
January 29, 2013, 07:44 PM
I got caught low supplied during the panic of 2008-2009. Once things lightened up, I took to advice my pop gave me years ago, whenever you are out and about, pick up a box of ammo. Well, that advice worked well. At this point, I have no "real" need for ammo at this time. Also, I picked up the firearms post 08-09 that I wanted at reasonable prices. So, I have no need for any new firearms. I would suggest that those now suffering start stocking up after this panic subsides. IMHO, it will subside and things will come back to a some sort of new norm. Not sure you will be able to get 9mm WWB at $23.00 at wally world. Will probably be a few bucks more, but that is capitalism.

Sauer Grapes
January 29, 2013, 07:49 PM
Sorry to hear about the Mrs. I know it's frustrating. I just bought a Mark III 22 pistol. Guess what, I have very little ammo! I got caught flat footed not thinking about 22 ammo going scarce. It's the only thing I can't hand load....:banghead:

c4v3man
January 29, 2013, 07:51 PM
You can still find .22 online, but it may be match grade expensive stuff. That being said, even match grade (or match "practice" grade) .22's are cheaper than most... Should buy several bricks to help reduce the shipping costs.

NormB
January 29, 2013, 07:59 PM
When I retired - US Army - here in 1997 I had conversations on line with guys who had been shooting and collecting for decades. One guy said he had, easily, over a million rounds of ammunition at his house somewhere in SoCal. I remember thinking this was nuts.

Then I started shooting more, buying guns I couldn't while moving around the world. Friend of mine suggested buying 1,000 rounds for each gun I bought. I found it was really easy to blow through that in a month's time with only semi-autos and revolvers and bolt guns if I went two or three times a month. More if I took my son or daughter. Bought a progressive reloading press to feed the subguns/machine guns, reloading components by the thousands. I've reloaded over 100,000 rounds since then and bought tens of thousands more. It adds up. I can shoot for a day with friends at steel to 1200 yards and easily go through 300 rounds, more if we do a little pistol shooting.

Can't say how much I have on hand, but I don't consider myself a "hoarder."

Someone buys a couple cases of ammo I don't think of it as hoarding.

Someone buys 20,000 primers because they're "on sale" and available and he reloads for his pistol club or high school Palma team that's a summer's training. Not "hoarding."

I call it all Laissez-faire free market enterprise. You know, what communists call "capitalism."

I call it an opportunity for manufacturers to start up another shift and get those presses cranking out more finished rounds to grease the skids of Obama's - ahem, the American - economy.

BP44
January 29, 2013, 08:04 PM
I'm truly sorry for the situation you found yourself in, in the future I'm sure you will be more prepared.

tomrkba
January 29, 2013, 08:15 PM
Purchase ammo from internet stores. Natchez was advertising 22 LR in their catalog. Get on 10+ ammo sites and add 22 LR ammo to your wishlist with instant email notification. Keep the credit card handy and buy it as soon as the email lands on your phone.

larryh1108
January 29, 2013, 08:19 PM
Can't say how much I have on hand, but I don't consider myself a "hoarder."

Someone buys a couple cases of ammo I don't think of it as hoarding.

Correct, not hoarding.

There is a difference between being well prepared and hoarding.
Being well prepared is everything mentioned here. All good suggestions.

Hoarding is having more than enough (by your average usage) to get thru this mini-crisis or a few years but as soon as the crisis hits you go clean out all the stock from the local retailers. Instead of smiling because you are well prepared by planning you compound the problem and buy up everything in sight just because you can, not because you need to. There is a big difference yet everyone who has a substantial inventory thinks this is directed at them. It isn't. You planned. You'll have plenty to wait it out. You did good. You beat the system.

Hoghunter
January 29, 2013, 08:23 PM
45 auto wrote:


Last week two of my dealers and yesterday a third said that from their perspective as retailers the artificial bubble has burst. They are restocking for the third or fourth time and the stuff is not flying off the shelves like it had been. They are already seeing guns that went out six weeks ago coming back. Some of the panic crowd that hit every gun show, retailer and online store they could have their credit card bills hitting. Here, the price of an SKS on the shelf has dropped 140 bucks from its peak. AR-15's have dropped about the same. These panic buyers are already seeing the shelves fill up, the prices adjusting and are freaking out over losing out on their investment made in a time of panic. Some are already trying to cash back out before their is another price drop back toward pre panic levels and they have to pay another months interest on their cards.

I was selling two to four SKS rifles a week up till two weeks ago. What the market is paying today compared to three weeks ago in private sales locally has gone down to a point where I will hold my remaining Combloc rifles to the next panic. Yes, there will be more of these incidents. So once the market normalizes somewhat, you regular consumers that got caught this time need to take heed and buy at a rate that will give you enough stock to get through each price bubble without feeling left out from participating in your chosen activity.

I have been buying all things gun, ammo, reloading related for 30 years. My minimum stock is to have enough ammo and components to shoot for at least 3 to 5 years if a significant shortage were to occur. I have an emergency lot backing that up of inventory that is not to be shot unless we reach a time in our society it is necessary for survival. That said, been able to continue shooting for past two months as if nothing has happened. Still get my monthly stocking order from my LGS of reloading components regular as clockwork. He knows what I need a year ahead and has my needs planned in his rolling stock.

Your screen name is 45 auto... I personally shoot a minimum of 150 rounds of .45 acp every week and some weeks double that. Casting my own bullets out of wheel weights and at today's price for scrap lead, powder and primers it costs me 6.50 per 100 rounds to roll my own. At the local indoor range .45 acp range ammo is 20.00 per 50 round box. to shoot 100 rounds of their ammo versus mine is a 33.50 price difference. Plus I am loading with components bought at half current prices as part of my 30 year old restocking program. By the time I get to shooting the primers and powder I am buying now, it will be a bargain by those days standards.

Stored properly ammo and reloading supplies will last more than a lifetime. I "found" a box with five pounds of Bullseye powder a week or so ago. That will make about 2,000 rounds of .38 plinkers per pound. Price on the bottles was 7.95 per pound. Cracked a can, loaded a few and shot perfectly. Due to its age I moved this powder to front of rotation. At that price when it got stored, it is 0.004 cents per round for 38 special rounds. The math shows 20 cents a box for my powder. Costs me 0.006 to cast 140 grain SWC currently. Primers I am using were purchased when they were 14.00 per 1,000 comes to 0.014 per primer. So busting my .38 target loads this week are costing me less than 3 cents a round for 38 or 1.20 per box. I choose to put back and keep control of my inventory rather than the whims of the general public and the retailers dictate my activity.

Last night I put two 100 round boxes of 45 acp and two 100 round boxes of .38 special and a 250 rounds of 22 lr into my ammo box for this weeks allotment as weather is nice and have some extra time to shoot. So 400 rounds of center fire handgun ammo and 250 rimfire with price of .59 box marked has my weekly ammo cost at less than 20 bucks for a total of 650 rounds. Instead of riding around like a chicken missing his head looking for a bullet, I will be relaxing at the range slinging lead and making smoke.

Am I a hoarder? NO! I am a shooter and put the effort in so that not only can I shoot all I want this week, I can next month, next year or 5 years from now even if no gun shop in America gets a box of bullets or a can or powder for the next three years or more. I buy in bulk, on a regular schedule, in advance so that I can afford to enjoy shooting instead of posting on BBS's trying to find a 50 count box of 22 lr.

Same reason after Katrina and everyone in the south was lining up for fuel and paying triple when a station happened to get a few gallons to sell. I pulled up to my own pump filled up my truck and had enough fuel to get through the shortage without freaking out. Common sense and the facts tell us that our supply lines in America are overtaxed and not prepared for any type of shortage or run. Average city has three days food supply in the stores. What do the same folks looking for a bullet do if the trucks stop restocking the grocery store? Starve? If the toilet paper factory burns are folks going to have to wipe their butt with the Sears catalog? Wait, its online now so it would be hard to wipe with a computer monitor. Go to the U.S. FEMA website and take the course entitled "A citizens guide to emergency preparedness". Y'all will be shocked at how ragged the edge our society is riding every day. When loaf of bread costs 50 bucks if you can find it is it going to be unfair that I put a 50 pound bag of flour in a can and can put it in my bread making machine and eat a sandwich while others are starving? When the electric grid goes down during a regular winter ice storm is it fair to my neighbors that my whole house generator which runs off a buried 1,000 gallon tank of propane kicks on within seven seconds and while other sit in the cold and dark we make microwave popcorn and watch movies? No you don't have to be rich to live like this. All it takes is prioritizing your life. My wife and I have not been out to eat in 3.5 years. While most couples are blowing 75 bucks to go to Red Lobster or Longhorns on Friday night, we fix a nice dinner at home and use the money saved to put something we may need in a box, can or bottle. While some are paying 100 plus a month for cable TV we watch free high def off an antenna on the chimney. While most are leasing a car or trading every 4 to 5 years I service our heavy duty trucks faithfully and the money saved by getting 500,000 miles per truck before buying new puts a 1,000 gallon tank of diesel and another of premium fuel underground. When the time for the new truck comes we have saved the cash and don't have to give some finance company thousands of dollars to drive out truck. making payments to yourself on the front end is cheaper than making them to someone else with interest on the back end. Is that hoarding? No, it is being responsible to see that my family is cared for in the event of any foreseeable shortage. We can eat, drive and shoot our guns. So when ammo returns to the store folks can learn the lesson and buy an extra box or two when they go to put back for the next bubble or they can only buy what they plan to shoot and be in the same situation again next time. I do feel for some of you and have actually given away, traded and sold quite a bit of ammo lately to help others. But every dime will be put aside to restock for next shortage. People can choose to live at the whim of the supply chain and its hiccups or they can put just a tad of effort into being a few months to a year ahead of the game. Everyone gets to make their own choice.
Excellent post! I agree 1000%. Planning ahead always beats the whining you hear from those who expect someone else to provide for their every need (like some of the recent voters).

jasonmha
January 29, 2013, 08:29 PM
I love how people who were caught short in previous shortages are busting your chops about current people being caught short now.

And how everybody who has been buying a box or so every now and then think you are attacking them.

With friends like this, who needs Feinstien?

ole farmerbuck
January 29, 2013, 09:05 PM
You can still find .22 online, but it may be match grade expensive stuff. That being said, even match grade (or match "practice" grade) .22's are cheaper than most... Should buy several bricks to help reduce the shipping costs.
I'll post this again in case someone wants it.
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11671304/ammo-for-sale-hunting-shooting/rifle-ammo/5000-rounds-cci-22-lr-40-gr-.22lr-free-shipping

blkbrd666
January 29, 2013, 09:08 PM
With friends like this, who needs Feinstien?

That's pretty good.

Hokkmike
January 29, 2013, 09:13 PM
Let's see....you are only upset because YOU don't have a stash, right?

exbrit49
January 29, 2013, 09:20 PM
• Several of THR Guys offered to get some .22 LR for the wife and I want to say a big THR “Thank you”, Most used a PM to contact me and I really appreciated these offers. As they offered it privately I won’t acknowledge the names on the Post but THANKS GUYS. Those were really wonderful gestures of sharing.
• We declined all the offers but did try the 380 today, she can shoot about 25 rounds before it hurts her hands but she was happy to be able to have a fallback.
• Posts 32 and 50 got what I was trying to say. However I stick by my original comments, if you aren’t going to shoot it, then its hoarding!
• Yes there is a difference in being prepared and hoarding, for those that are prepared, Well Done! That was said with no sarcasm, it was a genuine compliment.
I thought I had covered all my requirements, but yes I did overlook the lowly .22 Shame on me! I have talked to the LGS and he is going to try to save me a couple boxes a week but is not sure when he will get them. As a side note, he isn’t a happy camper either. He has maintained very reasonable prices and said that he was mad that several locals had basically cleaned out his entire stock of primers before he had advised his employees to not let anyone hog up the entire supply. Too late, one of the other employees let it all go. What really made him mad was that the “Entrepreneur “decided he could sell them at a nice profit at a gun show! Now the LGS is rationing every item of ammo and primers, when he can get some more.
As noted in my original post I am VERY well stocked on everything else and I will share what happened when I went to talk to the LGS. I picked up an additional 2 cans of Unique. As I was talking to the store owner a guy came up to the counter and asked if there was any more Unique as there was none on the shelf. I had taken the last two cans. I reviewed what I had on hand and what I really needed and decided to let the other guy have one can, as he was totally out. It felt good to be able to help another re-loader. I could not buy it just to let it sit on the shelf for a year or more. while he had none!
I think most of the readers know what I was trying to say in the original post, it seems to have struck a raw nerve with a few. Guess if the shoe fits………

Jim Mac
January 29, 2013, 10:09 PM
Walmart actually had .22 in stock this afternoon. So ammo is out there, you just have to be there at the right time. They also got a dpms ar in last friday. Only one, it sold before it got into the display case.
When 8mm mauser started to dry up, I stocked up for my two turks. Then when a guy was selling 300 rounds locally cheap I bought, Not really hoarding, but accumulating, then 340 rounds were 80 bucks turns into twice the price, I buy when I can find it cheap. Same with the 2000+ rounds of .22's + magnums I found at a yard sale. Guy had a ammo can in the garage. I asked if the can was for sale, He opens it and its full mostly of .22's (over 2000), plus a hundred cci magnums, a box of 32-20 and 30 carbine. he goes how about 20 bucks! How could I refuse? jim

BudW
January 29, 2013, 10:21 PM
how much 22 would it take to call someone a hoarder, some seen this coming and bought

Lex Luthier
January 29, 2013, 10:31 PM
There are some commodities other than steel and lead that are worth stocking up on.

Security based items are first and they include weapons and ammo, followed closely by sustenance and sanitation. Once a stocker-upper feels they have enough tactical gear and equipment to defend their family and property, the foodstuffs and items like bleach, toilet paper, etc. are next. One should have enough supplies to last a month or more until rule of law returns.

I believe most collectors have an unbalanced collection. Weapons are but one worthy aspect to consider.

larryh1108
January 29, 2013, 10:38 PM
how much 22 would it take to call someone a hoarder, some seen this coming and bought.

You are not a hoarder if you saw this coming and bought all you could while planning for it. Even if you have 50k rounds of .22LR on hand, you still aren't a hoarder.

Now, from the post above:

Walmart actually had .22 in stock this afternoon. So ammo is out there, you just have to be there at the right time.

In my eyes, you'd be a hoarder if you had the same amount of ammo as was just talked about and you went to Walmart, saw they had a shipment in and you bought it all up on the spot. You bought it because you could, not because you needed it. You didn't care if someone wanted a brick for whatever reason. Let's say he got his first .22 last week for his 21st birthday. He goes to Walmart and the shelf that was well stocked an hour before is now empty because one customer purchased all of it.

That's what I saw in '08/'09. That's what threads like these are referring to. You don't hoard if you are well prepared, even if you have 100k of ammo on hand. You hoard if you buy every box you see even though you won't need it for years, in times of shortages. Leaving some for the other guy doesn't fit in their psyche.

cslinger
January 29, 2013, 10:38 PM
Proud hoarder here :D Ok more of a .22 accumulator. Its my favorite round so I have accumulated a few boxes here and there over the years. Funny thing is I have only bought bulk (500 rounds) centerfire ammo twice in my life.

Exbrit you have pm

skeezer1
January 30, 2013, 02:39 AM
49 I learned a long time ago that a person has to be ready for what is to come. I do hand load for R, P, SG. With that said I also buy factory ammo when I find a good deal. Maybe U need to learn to be a little better prepared. No offence ment.

45_auto
January 30, 2013, 07:55 AM
You bought it because you could, not because you needed it.

That pretty much describes about 99.9% of all my purchases. Only things I really need are a couple of bottles of water and about 1000 calories of food a day. Lots of homeless people down here live outside year round, so clothing and shelter aren't really "needs" in this area.

Maybe if you could post how much ammo someone "needs", we would know when to stop buying it and leave the rest for you.

From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hoard

hoard
[hawrd, hohrd]
noun
1.
a supply or accumulation that is hidden or carefully guarded for preservation, future use, etc.: a vast hoard of silver.
verb (used with object)
2.
to accumulate for preservation, future use, etc., in a hidden or carefully guarded place: to hoard food during a shortage.
verb (used without object)
3.
to accumulate money, food, or the like, in a hidden or carefully guarded place for preservation, future use, etc.

Sorry, the above doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. I don't understand why you're so upset over people accumulating ammo for future use.

accrhodes
January 30, 2013, 08:07 AM
I saw this coming years ago. I purchased 12K rounds of .22LR when it was $11.99 per 550 rounds. I hope that this will last me an additional 10 years. I don't consider myself a hoarder at all. I looked at it as an investment because I knew the prices were going to go up.
I think everyone should have at least a 2 year supply of ammo on hand for shortages like this.

Just my .02

BSA1
January 30, 2013, 08:19 AM
Talk about calling the kettle black!!!

O.P. states “• Posts 32 and 50 got what I was trying to say. However I stick by my original comments, if you aren’t going to shoot it, then its hoarding.”
But then he says “I am VERY well stocked on everything else and I will share what happened when I went to talk to the LGS. I picked up an additional 2 cans of Unique.”

SO how about letting the rest of us in on when you are going to shoot your “VERY well stocked” supply of ammunition and gun powder?

RetiredUSNChief
January 30, 2013, 08:25 AM
I love how people who were caught short in previous shortages are busting your chops about current people being caught short now.

And how everybody who has been buying a box or so every now and then think you are attacking them.

With friends like this, who needs Feinstien?

Pardon me, but I don't believe the majority of such postings are that at all. In fact, several of us have stated we'd gladly help a brother out in our postings...myself included.

There is a difference between hoarding and simply being prepared, and that's what most of us have been saying.

:)

kimbershot
January 30, 2013, 08:27 AM
never been a boy scout, always been prepared.

Arkansas Paul
January 30, 2013, 08:59 AM
I love how people who were caught short in previous shortages are busting your chops about current people being caught short now.

And how everybody who has been buying a box or so every now and then think you are attacking them.

With friends like this, who needs Feinstien?


Great 9th post.
I read all the others too, even though it took a really long time to do it. No posts since 2006, and then a whopping 3 in 2013. And all 3 were argumentative about ammo prices or hoarding ammo. Hmmmmm.

Queen_of_Thunder
January 30, 2013, 10:14 AM
Live and learn. I learned in in the last shortage. Made those daily trips to Walmart to see what came in and what was for sale. I make my stops every day to buy my authorized allotment from the local gun shops. Every month I add to my reloading supplies. After time even 1 box a day adds up. You can complaine or get to work on building your ammo supplies. Me, I do both.

exbrit49
January 30, 2013, 10:15 AM
It's amazing how this poster decided to cherry pick my last post. He says I picked up the two cans of Unique. What he didn't say, and was in the post was that I let another customer have one of the cans. He had none and I had two so I let him have a can so that he can reload and shoot. I was actually replacing a can that was close to empty. I had one more spare.
I am asking the moderator to close out this thread. I believe it has served it's purpose. It has shown we have members that are well prepared and yes, we also have hoarders.
Above all else. I want to extend a really big thanks to those that offered to send some .22 for my wife. Although we declined your offers reaffirmed that there are still some real sportsmen out there. Our heartfelt thanks.
Exbrit

RetiredUSNChief
January 30, 2013, 11:06 AM
No worries, exbrit49.

Some of us understand. :)

BSA1
January 30, 2013, 12:12 PM
Respectfully exbrit49 I was merely quoting word for word your exact statements in post #63. The written word is powerful and if not carefully phrased may convey a message different than the writer intended.

Since this is a open forum please feel free to take the opportunity to better explain your comments.

Queen_of_Thunder
January 30, 2013, 12:13 PM
I went back to reread the post. I see ypur complaint is the price of 22lr that could be had for less than $2 for a box of 50 when it was in stock and easily replaced to situation where it cost $7.50 for a product no longer in stock and there is no idea when or if it will ever be back in stock at any price. You refused to pay the price so the wife could shoot. I'll stop there because now I'm ticked off over your position. I will say this. If it was my spouse,my kids the price would not matter. If ir made them happy I would pay whatever the price was. Just my opinion.

larryh1108
January 30, 2013, 02:26 PM
I went to a gun show Sunday and a guy there had about 10 boxes of federal .22 LR and was asking $7.00 a box of 50.These are the Federal that Wal-Mart sold for $1.97. I would not and could not pay $7.00.

You refused to pay the price so the wife could shoot. I'll stop there because now I'm ticked off over your position.


Some people are on fixed incomes. Shooting is a luxury for most of us. He also stated he could not pay that much to shoot. Big difference than just refusing $5 per box more.

Believe it or not, some people are on tight budgets due to many reasons. If you recall, our economy has seen the worst recession since the great depression. For some reason, many people are very cold to this fact and have no sympathy for people who got hurt in this economy.

silicosys4
January 30, 2013, 02:34 PM
Some people are on fixed incomes. Shooting is a luxury for most of us. He also stated he could not pay that much to shoot. Big difference than just refusing $5 per box more.

Believe it or not, some people are on tight budgets due to many reasons. If you recall, our economy has seen the worst recession since the great depression. For some reason, many people are very cold to this fact and have no sympathy for people who got hurt in this economy.

You don't want sympathy, Larry.

In this thread and others you lambast "hoarders" for taking all the ammo which you perceive is causing prices to rise. (incorrectly, which has been pointed out to you again and again....people like you who have waited until this situation to prepare is what is driving this shortage)

You want someone to hold your hand and fix the mistakes that you have made in your life that have led you to be unable to live to the manner to which you'd like to be accustomed.
And you'd like them to fix the mistakes you've made in your life, by reducing their own options and well-earned enjoyment so that you can have that enjoyment, which you did not earn, and have been unwilling to work towards providing yourself.
And you'd rather have someone else artificially reduce their own enjoyment and rewards, than work to better yourself and lift yourself up, provide yourself with more options, income, whatever
Good luck.

Utryme
January 30, 2013, 02:37 PM
Pretty harsh judge mental conversation. Lets be civil.

clamman
January 30, 2013, 02:43 PM
For the first time in years, I decided to count my 22 ammo. I have never bought more than one or two bricks at a time. Never gave "hoarding" a thought. I knew that retirement is coming, and I should keep some on hand as the price will always rise. I counted 12,000 rounds.:neener::neener::neener:

larryh1108
January 30, 2013, 03:04 PM
You don't want sympathy, Larry.

In this thread and others you lambast "hoarders" for taking all the ammo which you perceive is causing prices to rise. (incorrectly, which has been pointed out to you again and again....people like you who have waited until this situation to prepare is what is driving this shortage)

You want someone to hold your hand and fix the mistakes that you have made in your life that have led you to be unable to live to the manner to which you'd like to be accustomed.
And you'd like them to fix the mistakes you've made in your life, by reducing their own options and well-earned enjoyment so that you can have that enjoyment, which you did not earn, and have been unwilling to work towards providing yourself.
And you'd rather have someone else artificially reduce their own enjoyment and rewards, than work to better yourself and lift yourself up, provide yourself with more options, income, whatever

Not only can't you comprehend what you read but you then accuse others of ideals of which you know nothing about and then expect everyone to live by your elitist standards. You are as clueless as they come. You worded it well at the end.... "whatever" dude.

silicosys4
January 30, 2013, 03:09 PM
Larry, I think everyone here is about sick of your "feel sorry for me cause I have an $800 rifle but I didn't buy ammo when I could...now who can I blame" whine-a-thon posts.

my "elitist standards" are not as "elite" as you say, if you read back pretty much every post you've made lately concerning "hoarders" and EVERYONES responses to them....they pretty much consist of "mind your own business and take care of what you need before you think you'll need it"

You are running in the wrong crowd if you want to watchdog your neighbors stash or limit his ability to prepare, so that you can have the luxury of failing to prepare yourself.

larryh1108
January 30, 2013, 03:23 PM
In this thread and others you lambast "hoarders" for taking all the ammo which you perceive is causing prices to rise. (incorrectly, which has been pointed out to you again and again....people like you who have waited until this situation to prepare is what is driving this shortage)

I have never complained about the price on ammo. You ire was from me pointing out someone else could not afford to pay almost 4x for .22 ammo. As you are well aware, in many posts and threads, my complaint has only been that hoarders buy every box on the shelf and don't leave any for others while they are sitting on more than they will use in the forseeable future. Period. Prices are prices and it is out of our hands. It's called supply and demand and when we do have these runs on ammo, prices do rise. It's called capitalism.

I have defended those who are pouced on by guys like you who are not prepared because they could not afford the extra ammo. Range time is a luxury, not a necessity. Many millions of people were hurt by this recession. Retirement accounts were wiped out in 2001 and again in 2008. Banks closed, gas prices tripled and the food and goods that are delivered by anything fuel powered also jumped in price. Whether you felt this pinch or not, millions were unemployed and 4 years later millions are still unemployed. Just because you weren't affected doesn't mean your brothers in arms weren't. Home prices plunged. Your nest egg in home equity is now negative equity. I'm sorry you don't feel the pain of people who were crippled by the economy or are on a fixed, retirement income. I hope everybody is as wonderful as you when you decide to retire and you count your millions because you are the man.

Me? I live how I choose to live. My priorities are mine and for you to judge my priorites because I dislike hoarders makes you the same as the very people we are fighting in office... clueless to the facts.

larryh1108
January 30, 2013, 03:26 PM
Now you are making things up.
Geez man, I guess I hit a nerve.
Hoard all you want.
Good for you!

What goes around, comes around.
You reap what you sow.

Try reading the words instead of what you think is being said.
Man, getting worked up over stuff not said is good.

Akita1
January 30, 2013, 03:34 PM
exbrit49 - have you checked with Sportsman's Supply in Butler, PA (724-287-4294)? They sell TONS of ammo on Gunbroker and I have purchased from them over the phone in the past with zero (yes zero) shipping charge. I am sure they are having the same supply issues everyone else is, but they have 25 pages of auction items on GB right now so may be worth a call. The downside is they do "no reserve" auctions so people are bidding the stuff up pretty heavily anyway. If Walmart doesn't have any .22 (they don't in FL anyway, been to 10 of them since the madness started), no one does given that Walmart is the largest ammo retailer and, by that reckoning, has the most influence on suppliers. Would take your fellow enthusiasts up on their offers above - nice work gentlemen (and ladies as applicable).

Akita1
January 30, 2013, 03:37 PM
Repeat sentiment

Akita1
January 30, 2013, 03:43 PM
It's amazing how this poster decided to cherry pick my last post. He says I picked up the two cans of Unique. What he didn't say, and was in the post was that I let another customer have one of the cans. He had none and I had two so I let him have a can so that he can reload and shoot. I was actually replacing a can that was close to empty. I had one more spare.
I am asking the moderator to close out this thread. I believe it has served it's purpose. It has shown we have members that are well prepared and yes, we also have hoarders.
Above all else. I want to extend a really big thanks to those that offered to send some .22 for my wife. Although we declined your offers reaffirmed that there are still some real sportsmen out there. Our heartfelt thanks.
Exbrit
Amen brother

hueyville
January 30, 2013, 04:17 PM
Ignition Overrie,
Yes, having short term surplus for continuing yur hobby backed up by long term items which are designated "emergency only" is paramont. And you are correct about the Red Dawn, Road Warrior or National Guard sowing up being a moot point. You may make a bit of a statement but once you do and they fly an Apahchee Gun Ship over your location all those extra 22 lr's and 9mm's are of no consequence. If we had complete failure of government sructure like an extended L.A. riot situation then we do have a chance with weel stocked supplies. The new "Preppers" show is goofy. Some of those people do have a clue but most have lost touch with reality. It does make for a nice comedy series. Also the M1a vs AR-15 debates are and apples and oranges debate. While there is some cross over in use, one is an assault rifle and the other is a battle rifle. My opinion is to have both. You need to have weapons in the most popular calibers to find available ammo. That includes NATO popular, 22 lr, 30-30, etc. Be able to shoot what you can find as you run out of personal inventory. Thus I have at least two of each opula caliber and more archived ammo for the non popular civillian calibers. As to meds, We have at least a six months supply of all our perscription meds, very well stocked med kits and a couple of gotta have no matter what we have a years supply properly stored. If the event goes beyond that, have to go scavaging. That is when the level 3a vest, mil surplus kevlar helmet and like product wil be needed. Don't want another scavanger popping me with a 38 special when we find an abandoned home that had some meds left in the pantry or the backwoods pharmacy that hadn'e been raided yet.

Fiddlesharp, Most cities unless farming communities have three days food supplies on the shelves If the trucks quit rolling them the food runs out. 50 pounds of rice, 50 pounds of dried beans, 50 pounds of oatmeal, 20 pounds of salt and two water filters will be a significant emergency ration. Also a coleman stove with a few gallons of fuel and just a 55 galon drum of premium fuel with fuel stabilizer.

mrvco, You dont hoard in an inflated panic economy. You put back extra a little at a time over decades when buying your normal supplies. This panic and run buy all you can is goofy. One of our local shops just restocked on range ammo. 50 round boxes of white box Winchester 9mm for 19.99 per box. They have 40, .45 and 44 mag according to flavor from 20 to 40 per box and plenty. My local market has stabilized it seems. A to the guys who think they are going to hold of the National Guard or Marines with an AR-15 have watched Rambo one too many times.

My goal is to be able to protect my family in the event of civil unrest that the LEO's and National Guard can't be at all of our homes in the event of a run on food or other basic necessitiies. Katrina type event, large earthquake, Super volcano, solar flare or whatever that disrupts the flow of goods. If it becomes a long term even I just have to outlive the freaks and the prepared individuals will learn to live with each other and share. That would be the only way for long term survival for all the good guys.

Odds of needing to be prepared to the level I am... Maybe 10% on the outside. But that 10% is enough to make the effort considering if it does not ed up needed, I use my fuel stockpile up at the end of the year and rotate fresh in. Same with the food. Same with ammo, I replace inventory now that will get shot in a few years. What I buy then replaces what wil be shot a decade from now. Keeps me playing ahead of inflation and not buying stuff that will not eventually be used. I just get to control my inventory and access rather than mass hysterial by the public over a weather or political event.

CoRoMo
January 30, 2013, 05:22 PM
The OP would beat me with a flyrod if he heard me detail the actions I took between election day and last week.

I did what I had to and I'm not going to apologize for it.

Home defense isn't ONLY about having a gun and knowing how to use it. Providing for my household isn't ONLY about bringing home a paycheck. There's a whole lot more that goes into it; preparation, stockpiling, hoarding, price gouging, call it whatever you like.

Arkansas Paul
January 30, 2013, 06:23 PM
CoRoMo, it's posts like that that make me wish THR had a "like" button.
Well said.

BSA1
January 30, 2013, 06:52 PM
Since exbrit49 is making a issue of me "cherry picking" his statements in post 63 here is his paragraph in full:

"As noted in my original post I am VERY well stocked on everything else and I will share what happened when I went to talk to the LGS. I picked up an additional 2 cans of Unique. As I was talking to the store owner a guy came up to the counter and asked if there was any more Unique as there was none on the shelf. I had taken the last two cans. I reviewed what I had on hand and what I really needed and decided to let the other guy have one can, as he was totally out. It felt good to be able to help another re-loader. I could not buy it just to let it sit on the shelf for a year or more. while he had none."

Please note that he states first that "I am VERY well stocked" and then goes on two state that he had taken the last two cans of Unique but gave one of the cans to another customer. This has left me puzzled as to why someone that is "VERY well stocked" would be buying more powder at all.

As I said before I am confused by not only by your complaint in Post #1 especially after making such a issue of your wife's unfortunate medical condition, refusing other THR offers of providing you with 22 ammo and then making the above comments in post 63.

While I do not want to be quarrelsome I already said "Respectfully exbrit49 I was merely quoting word for word your exact statements in post #63. The written word is powerful and if not carefully phrased may convey a message different than the writer intended.

Since this is a open forum please feel free to take the opportunity to better explain your comments."

Manny
January 30, 2013, 08:48 PM
I've started to reply to this post several different times. IMHO the OP is a bit of a whiner who neglected to prepare his wife anywhere near so well as he prepared himself and is now upset about it. That being said, as much as I admire folks who are well prepared, and strive to be so myself, I too dislike hoarders and resellers who lock up an entire supply when they already have substantial amounts just to have even more they realistically won't shoot or to sell for huge markup leaving others empty handed. I'm no socialist, I believe in "the invisible hand" of capitalism, but I also believe in the fair hand treatment of all comers, not just those with special access or privlage.

I can feel for the OP's wife, and understand his dimay at not having provided for her. But as he stated he's well prepared with high demand componants for reloading and I'm sure he can trade some of those to take care of his wife's needs, even if it means a sacrifice for him.

I've been preparing for politically motivated changes in ammo availability for sometime. Even so I did NOT expect the run on .22LR or some other common calibers such as .38 spl. I DID buy quantities of both since the Sandy Hook event, as well as a new LCR-22, KLCR.357 and a 10/22 take down. The .22's for training and the .357 as my new CCW piece. I've been wanting all for awhile, was just trying to save up to pay cash. Events pushed me to assume debt instead and now I'm very glad I did. MY .22 WILL be shot up for training, to give me the skill I've committed to re-aquiring after laying off frequent shooting for far to long.

Best Wishes to the OP and all who are caught short regardless of the reason. I hope the panic quickly subsides and things recover to a semblence of normal. Or that at least their most pressing needs can be helped by brother or sister shooters.

22-rimfire
January 30, 2013, 09:38 PM
I keep a lot of 22LR on hand. Some might call me a hoarder. Some would simply say "prepared". I have not bought any 22 ammo since this current shortage started. If I am not choosey, I probably have enough for the next 10 years.

I counted 12,000 rounds.

Of each variety? :D

larryh1108
January 30, 2013, 09:57 PM
I keep a lot of 22LR on hand.....I probably have enough for the next 10 years.

I'd say you are well prepared. Good job.

I have not bought any 22 ammo since this current shortage started.

This is why you are not a hoarder.

breakingcontact
January 30, 2013, 10:32 PM
Not being dismissive, but pellet rifles or C02 bb handguns are fun.

evan price
January 31, 2013, 02:46 AM
In the spirit of taking the high road ill just say that if shooting means as much to you and your family as it seems to, it was your duty to ensure adequate supply. Now you are just like the other grasshoppers who didn't plan ahead. How anyone who lived through the first obama drought of 2008 could not see another one coming utterly baffles me! You didn't need to buy cases of ammo. Just buy one extra box a month...less than twenty bucks a brick on sale...and you'd have been in high cotton. Now its everyone elses fault. Maybe instead of focusing on reloading components for yo...you should have focused on nonreloadable rimfire ammo for her. Only thing to do now is make a habit of visiting walmart and gunstores early to maybe score some right off the truck. Good luck.

How many people complain about fixed incomes and the economy but still buy beer coffee cigarettes soda and junk food?

JRWhit
January 31, 2013, 06:56 AM
I must be missing something.:confused:
I have had zero problem with the current run on ammo. I like a lot of fellow posters here have plenty on hand just from the regular rotation of my inventory.
I haven't been hurt by the mad rush on things just inconvenienced a little.
It is very clear me, that the O.P. does not refer to me, nor to others who made an early decision to prepare long before this occurred. The reference is to people who in last minute irrational panic mode, are ready to push all others out of there way so that everything on that shelf belongs to them and no one else.
I don't feel assaulted by the O.P. and I guess I don't understand why so many others do, unless they are the ones shoving to make sure they get all 20 boxes.
That has nothing to do with being prepared, only lack there of and a last minute panic, and that is what the O.P. is talking about. I don't suggest to keep people from doing such things, but just point out that certain events have a way of showing someones true colors.

To second what was already said, this thread has fallen flat. One side keeps arguing that being prepared is a good thing, and the other side arguing that,that is not what we are talking about. I vote close it.

Queen_of_Thunder
January 31, 2013, 12:50 PM
The rushing to clear the shelves is over. I'm betting most sellers of ammo are doing what my local sellers are doing and that is limiting the sale to 1 box in each caliber or like Academy one box each in 3 calibers as the max purchase. As far being prepared buying a box a day of 223/556 nets you 600 rounds and a box of 45acp in 50 count boxes nets you 1500 rounds.
So people need to quit complaining and deal with it. Granted you can't geg it in one visit but over a short period of time you will have your ammo for the shooting season.. I will end on that note and leave to make my daily ammo purchases from Academy and the LGS.

LordDunsany
January 31, 2013, 03:38 PM
I have experienced zero problems with the latest panic run on ammo and firearms. I took this as an opportunity to sell off an accumulation of firearms and matching ammunition to those who were willing to pay the current market price for them.

This money was used to make home improvements and stock up on other necessities, against an uncertain future.

Hoarder? Not at all. All my things were purchased over many years, usually at bargain prices. Likewise with the ammo. I have 'shared the wealth' so to say, and enabled persons who otherwise would never have gotten AK's to have them. Likewise, they also had access to plenty of my ammo and mags.

It all depends on how you look at it. Most have seen this panic buying as a bad thing. I saw it as an opportunity. Not only did I enable several people to get things they wanted, I made new friends in the process.

In summary, I have no sympathy for those who, for whatever reason, didn't take prudent precautions during normal times, and find themselves caught short now. Everyone has had equal access to news of current events, and ample stocks of all varieties of goods have been available. To not use common sense and foresight is inexcusable, especially in these times of unstable government and irrational and illogical legislators.

exbrit49
February 4, 2013, 10:18 PM
Thanks to those of you that even offered to help out with some .22. Your messages and responses show what the shooting sport used to be and still is for quite a lot of us. Although we did not accept the offers, It meant a great deal to us.
Unfortunately, I left this post open on my computer and my wife read every post. She was dumbfounded at some of the responses and informed me that she does not want to shoot anymore. She was very clear in her reasoning. She said that too many of the responses did not represent the shooting community that we had grown to love and allied with over the years.
She went on to state that if this is what the sport has become for some, She wants no part of it.
I did manage to trade a friend some 38s for some .22 but she insists she will not shoot again. Having been maried to her for 46 years i know her pretty well, She probably wont!
When I wrote the original post I admitted that I had plenty of other calibers on hand as well as components, BSA1 especially, came right back and asked when I was going to shoot it, Had he taken the time to read my earlier posts, I stated that I shoot twice a week and rotate my ammo continously. I took BSA1 posts personally and I felt that he protested to loudly, I wonder if he fits that definition of Hoarder? I guess at this point I dont really care. I think my wifes comments are still ringing in my ears too loudly. We are both on our pensions and we restock as we are able to. While we are not poor, we do watch our budgets.
I also stated, I had never really kept big stocks of .22 on hand as it had never been a problem to obtain in this area as she was the only one that shoots it. We always had 8 weeks supply So yes I am guilty of negligence in securing a good supply of ammo for her and our twice weekly shooting sessions. That I owned up to up front.
I keep about a 5 to 6 month supply of all the other calibers I shoot on hand. I consider that plenty. But then thats just me. Each to his own
But I digress, Im pretty thick skinned but the wife isnt and seeing the dismay on her face after she read the posts, and her not wanting to shoot again really hurt.
Enough said. I will not be reading this post again.
In fact I probably wont read any of the General posts again, instead I will continue to read the revolver section, Black powder and reloading sections

To all the real sports out there, Have fun and keep them in the black.

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