some issue with 45 70 loads


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griffinbk
January 28, 2013, 11:17 PM
All right I'm hopping i can get some advice. Basically I've been loading for 308 and 223 for roughly 3 years. well i got a marlin 45 70 guide gun around the first of december. I made some cast 405's for it and built up some loads using Varget. My loads were 42 43 44 45 46 47 48. They all shoot good, except i noticed the powder wasn't burning all the way on any of the loads. It actually looked like a black powder going off. Powder was also being left in the barrel. Now I'm aware the burn rate is the issue with the short barrel, but I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing or if there is something i can do. I only use varget for the 223 and 308 and love the powder. With the carbine length barrels on those guns the powder is getting a complete burn. Im a simplest and would love to only have to use one powder for all my rifle loads. Now I'm more than willing to try different powders but with the current shortage of supplies its kinda hard. I do have a pound of h4198, but my book says the max load is 32 which I'm thinking will leave a lot of air in the case. Can someone tell me any fixes for the varget or maybe some medium loads for the h4198

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Mutt58
January 28, 2013, 11:26 PM
I have a Ruger # 1 and found the same thing with 350 grain bullets.
I found the best powder for me was Reloader7.burns really clean with great accuracy.
Mutt

ArchAngelCD
January 28, 2013, 11:31 PM
IMO straight wall Black Powder cases like the 45-70 work best with fast powders and Varget is on the slow side.

I use 2400, H4198 and AA5744 in the 45-70 and sometimes Trail Boss too. I mostly load for a Trapdoor but when I load for the Marlin Guide gun I sometimes load a 300gr or 350gr JHP bullet over IMR3031.

gspn
January 28, 2013, 11:37 PM
I just started reloading .45-70 and Reloader 7 has been clean and accurate.

fallout mike
January 28, 2013, 11:45 PM
I have had great success with RX7 as well.

Jefferson Herb
January 29, 2013, 12:29 AM
If you have access to a handloader mag,they listed varget to 1800 fps w 405 cast in a trapdoor w/32 in bl.Guide guns have a lot less barrel,R-7 or 30-31 will be a better powder for you. Note Elmer Keith used 53 gr 30-31 w 405 in 1886.

Jefferson Herb
January 29, 2013, 12:32 AM
If you just give up,[45-70s are poor ballistics] you maybe able to store it with the rest of their relics,I might be able to find room!!!
Good Luck

greenmtnguy
January 29, 2013, 12:36 AM
There are quite a few loads for the 45/70 that use H322, which is also a good powder for the .223 cartridge. I use H322 and IMR4198 for most of my 45/70 reloading

Also, according to my lymans manual, Lymans #457193 405gr cast lead shows a starting load of 49.5 gr for the 1895 Marlin lever. I think that your incomplete/inconsistent burn issue is that Varget likes more pressure to burn well, and your Varget loads are actually kinda light with that bullet, unless you are using it in an old trapdoor springfield rifle.

b78-22250
January 29, 2013, 10:23 AM
+++ Reloader 7. Eight out of ten guns surveyed prefer rx7 with 400 gr bullits and short snouts.

highlander 5
January 29, 2013, 10:44 AM
I've used 3031,5744 and 4227 in my cast bullet loads for my Sharps and no unburnt powder,but my barrel is 34" long. I loaded a batch of 500 gr lead behind 24 gr of 4227 and they seem to be very accurate and quite mild in the recoil department,but the overall length of 2.76" may be to long for your rifle.

dagger dog
January 29, 2013, 11:31 AM
You may have some unburned powder, Varget is not the best powder for straight walled large volume cases, should choose a faster powder, a heavy roll crimp helps with complete powder burning.

A lot of the,excess smoke is from the lube on the cast bulets, 405 gr 45-70 bullets are rather large,the lube grooves on the bullet are lage, so you get lots of smoke.

Welcome to the Forum !

jack44
January 29, 2013, 06:04 PM
Try IMR 3031 or RL 7 I have a Marlin 45/70 GG shoot lead and these are some of the powders I use.

SlamFire1
January 29, 2013, 06:55 PM
Accurate Arms AA5744 works very well in this cartridge and at black powder levels. If you notice the ES spreads are excellent. Accuracy was just fine.

The martini henry rifle was a British service rifle from the 1880's, the charges I used are appropriate for this action.

You can add more AA5744 for modern actions.

45/70 Martini Henry

26" Shilen Barrel


405 LRN 26.5gr AA5744 R-P cases WLR
29-Apr-04 T = 80 F
Ave Vel = 1294
Std Dev = 14
ES = 40
Low = 1274
High = 1314
N = 15


405 LRN 27.0gr AA5744 R-P cases WLR
24-Mar-04 T = 70 F
Ave Vel = 1284
Std Dev = 23
ES = 80
Low = 1263
High = 1343
N = 12


405 LRN 27.5gr AA5744 R-P cases WLR
24-Mar-04 T = 70 F
Ave Vel = 1323
Std Dev = 14
ES = 38
Low = 1307
High = 1345
N = 5


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/MartiniHenrywithNewStockDSCN3711.jpg

slamfirev10
January 29, 2013, 07:17 PM
+1 for reloader 7 from a marlin guide gun

it is slightly pricey (yes, i'm cheap)

i have also had good luck with accurate 2230c (a military surplus take down powder sometimes avail in 8lb jugs. per accurate can use 2460 load data for 2230c), when i run out of 2230c, i'll probably go back to reloader 7

also make sure you have a good crimp

griffinbk
January 29, 2013, 09:08 PM
Thanks for all the replies I am planning to try some different powder as soon as the market stabilizes . I was talking to a friend about it and he was saying it was problem a pressure thing(varget needs the high pressure to burn correctly)

griffinbk
January 29, 2013, 09:14 PM
I noticed you said you have a few loads with h4198. What would be a good 75-90 percent load with that powder using a 405

bobnob
January 30, 2013, 02:42 PM
You have a Marlin 1895?

Try something like 35g of H4198. It will burn clean and shoot them accurate enough.

You could load a lot hotter but it depends on what speeds your lead bullets can handle.

gman82001
January 30, 2013, 05:17 PM
h322 and a hornady 350 rn or flat nose both mine and dads guide guns love love love them. He just sent one through a cow buffalo lengthwise after putting one through both lungs. H322 is a great powder

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