Value of "Sporterized" MilSurp?


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NukemJim
January 29, 2013, 10:49 PM
Can anyone point me to a source or method of setting the price of a sporterized milsurp? A coworker inherited a number of them and I am trying to help them sort them out to sell. I have a number of references for the straight milsurp and of course there is the net.

But how they heck do you set a "fair"price for a one of a kind sporterized rifle? My understanding is that sporterizing actually decreases the value of the rifle but I do not know by how much.

I am up on ARs, Mini14s, and AKs but have no clue as to this stuff.

I am not asking for prices on exact models just if there is a source or rule of thumb.

Thank you

NukemJim

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TurtlePhish
January 29, 2013, 10:52 PM
Well... it really depends on the rifle and how well the job was done.

Well-done jobs can be worth almost as much as the rifle in original condition, whereas poorly-done bubba jobs can be nigh unsellable.

Arp32
January 29, 2013, 11:10 PM
Sight unseen, I'd say you'd be wise to set some low expectations for him. From my limited experience, seems like there are 12 bubba'a (or more) for every fine custom job.

bainter1212
January 29, 2013, 11:24 PM
A milsurp is most commonly sporterized for hunting purposes. At this point, you are evaluating the rifle like you would any hunting rifle. 1) availability and popularity of the round the gun is chambered in. 2) condition of the metal, bore condition and crown condition. 3) stock wood type, quality of finish and how well it is fitted to the action ie is it bedded, barrel floated etc. 4) any improvements like trigger jobs, bolt handle mods, drill and tap for scope mounts, quality and install of iron sights etc.
For example, if you have a 1903 Springfield that has had a nice Monte Carlo stock properly installed, barrel properly cut and nicely crowned, iron sights properly installed, reciever properly drilled and tapped, bolt handle modified by a skilled craftsman, it should be worth just about what a Remington 700 ADL chambered in 30-06 in appropriately used condition would be worth.
Often the cost and labour to convert these milsurps exceeds the actual end worth of the rifle.

Bushpilot
January 29, 2013, 11:27 PM
There is no "sporterized" pricing rule of thumb that I'm aware of, only an eye for the true quality (or typically lack of quality) of the work. The percentage of "sporterized" rifles out there that are worth as much or more after being sporterized than what they would be worth in good original condition is probably <1%. Most "sporterized" Mausers and Springfields in my area sell for between $150 and $250 dollars. It's somewhat unusual to find one that is even done well enough to equal the value of the average used, factory sporter.

slicksleeve
January 29, 2013, 11:29 PM
Some of them might be good for a guy like me, who likes to work on rifles. I might could take some of the rougher, less well done ones, and expound/improve on what has already been done, rather than start out on a complete military rifle.

Jim Mac
January 29, 2013, 11:29 PM
Seems there are more people interested in guns in stock configurations, So if you price a gun thats sporterized and add prices on used parts to get it back to stock. Its probably cheaper to buy a stock gun to begin with. So you have to price it accordingly. Its like building a custom classic car. For every buyer of a custom theres 10X the people looking for something stock. jim

cal30_sniper
January 29, 2013, 11:49 PM
Most can't be returned to stock. Drilled and tapped holes, bent bolt handles, cut down barrels, etc, are all pretty much permanent.

Mauser 98 sporters are the exception. The SOMETIMES can go for very high prices, if the work is excellent. Other than a few of those, I have never seen a sporter sell for more than $400. Most sell in the $200-250 range, tops. Resale is very tough unless it is an attractive rifle with good work and desirable features, or a sporter version of what would be an extremely rare model in original form. Amateur collectors and hobbyists tend to pay more for a sporterized version of a rare rifle simply because they cannot find or afford a real one, and the sporter is the next best thing. Those instances are pretty limited. Norwegian Krags are one of the few that come to mind.

Jackal
January 29, 2013, 11:54 PM
If Bubba did the sporterizing (sawed stock, hacksaw barrel, etc), then a $1000 rifle (Springfield) could be worth $100. If it was done really well, then that $400 military Mauser could be worth $700. It is completely and totally dependent upon the quality of the conversion.

caribou
January 30, 2013, 12:07 AM
Its fairly easy to look up a collectors forum for military rifles, then fix on a price a collector would pay for an average piece, then cut your price in 1/2 or by 2/3rds and youll be in the right ball park for a sporterized military rifle.....Adding plastic stocks , scopes and such do absolutly nothing to increase the value of a cut up military rifle.

However, no matter whats been done, if you can shoot it straigt and YOU like it; priceless.

Shadow 7D
January 30, 2013, 02:43 AM
And many will look at your rifle and tear you a new one, explaining exactly what it was, and how much LESS it's worth now.

As for the rifle depends on it, where you are at, and how good you are at selling.

paintballdude902
January 30, 2013, 03:12 AM
between 75 bucks at 1,000 bucks depending on the rifle, condition, quality of the work...etc

.Adding plastic stocks , scopes and such do absolutly nothing to increase the value of a cut up military rifle.

RAWR!!! that drives me insane when people throw on the cheap plastic ATI stock on a mosin or enfield or mauser and think it added 100 bucks to the value.

R.W.Dale
January 30, 2013, 04:12 AM
If a name cannot be attributed to the sporterization you're realistically looking at sub $200 guns.

Rare sights or outstanding woodwork may up the value on their own but don't bet on it.

I used to collect fine sporterizations form the 50-60's and era. Even when finely built seldom did I pay over $200 for one




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

critter
January 30, 2013, 06:36 AM
Good answers here. In most cases, they are simply worth what someone WANTS to give you for it.

jimmyraythomason
January 30, 2013, 07:41 AM
In most cases, they are simply worth what someone WANTS to give you for it.
__________________
This but I'd go further and say it is true in ALL cases.

ID-shooting
January 30, 2013, 08:15 AM
Post some pics, you might get an offer or two. I am actually in the market for a springfield 30-06 that has been sporterized, at least the wood. Would like all the metal intact.

Offfhand
January 30, 2013, 12:20 PM
Here's a pretty nice example of a "sporterized" Springfield. Nothing fancy about it, just the addition of a plain but nice stock and new sights, plus blueing the metal. I have a few Mausers that have also been sporterized and they are now far more valuable now than before. Basically, it's just a matter of who does the sporterizing.

El Mariachi
January 30, 2013, 01:20 PM
Here's a pricing example of one sporterized rifle that I bought last year----it's an Arisaka Type 99, rechambered in .300 Savage. Cost me a $1,000.00, but I'll tell ya, I couldn't open my wallet fast enough to pay that price. Thing is gorgeous and built like a tank;


http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy21/shiftster/More%20guns/Dadsguns105.jpg


http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy21/shiftster/More%20guns/Dadsguns104.jpg


http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy21/shiftster/More%20guns/Dadsguns102.jpg


http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy21/shiftster/More%20guns/Dadsguns101.jpg





Whoops, I'm sorry----did I say a thousand dollars?? I meant to say one hundred bucks. Just gotta know where to shop...:D

jrdolall
January 30, 2013, 01:27 PM
I have a sporterized Swede that I bought for a song. The stock is high $$$. I had it drilled and tapped and the bolt cut down so I could sit a Leuopold 3x9x50 on it. Sweet shooting deer rifle that has virtually zero recoil.

The actual value of the rifle is probably about $250 but as a deer rifle it is probably $1000 with the scope and stock. The stock is custom engraved and close to perfect.

Offfhand
January 30, 2013, 01:50 PM
Here's a couple of my "sporterized" Argentine Mausers. Never underestimate Bubba

mgmorden
January 30, 2013, 01:50 PM
Whoops, I'm sorry----did I say a thousand dollars?? I meant to say one hundred bucks. Just gotta know where to shop...:D

I was about to question your sanity, but after that "correction" you did indeed get a good deal :).

I'll only echo the sentiments of the other posters. Done right, the value vs stock will take a minor hit or might even pull a little extra. Done wrong, the rifle essentially becomes $100 junk.

Examples of things "wrong":

1. Adding a plastic stock. They're cheap and nobody wants them. If the "custom" sporter has a plastic stock expect a major value hit.

2. Having an original stock that has been "recontoured" or cut down. I don't care HOW nice a job it was, if they took the original military stock and tried to cut it into a sporter stock, its junk.

3. Leaving the original military sights on there. Often times the barrel might be cut back removing the front sight, but you'll often see the old military rear one left behind. This looks bad, and decreases the value.

4. Not being setup for scope use. Sporters are hunting rifles, and very few people want to hunt with irons anymore. If its not drilled and tapped with an appropriately modified bolt handle and safety, then they view that as an extra expense they'll have to take on.

5. Anything setup with a "scout" scope. That term itself annoys me. It's not a "scout" mount. Its an "I'm too lazy and/or cheap to do the job right" mount.

6. If a recoil pad was added by a home amateur and is chopped up and such. Just overall a bad thing.

7. If any "shortcuts" were taken during the process. For example, there are kits out there for Mosin Nagants and Mausers that, rather than have the bolt handle professionally bent or a new one welded on, allow you to cut the original off and SCREW on a new handle. Thats another value killer.

If any of the above are true, don't expect more than $100-200 for the rifle. If its actually a nicely done version with none of that, then they kinda have to be appraised individually.

WardenWolf
January 30, 2013, 02:16 PM
It depends. I picked up a nicely sporterized German Mauser a few years ago to use as my hunting rifle. The work was obviously done in the 50s or 60s. The stock was nothing spectacular, but it was in decent shape; the kind of thing you don't mind taking through the brush. The bolt work and tapping was good, though. It's mechanically excellent, and a great shooter, and could be made much nicer with a nice stock from Boyd's. Overall it's probably worth around $500, but I got it for $250. I put a Nikon 6-18x40 scope on it and called it done.

desidog
January 30, 2013, 04:22 PM
Good advice above;

On some occasions, I've bought bubba'd guns for less loot than the individual parts go for for the same model - an example is a $50 Carcano i bought; took off the butt plate and barrel band i needed; and sold the bolt assembly for $25, the receiver for 20, and the rear sight for 25 as well.

Cosmoline
January 30, 2013, 04:32 PM
In my experience it's also critical to pick the rifle up. I'm willing to bet you could blindfold me and I'd be able to tell you the good sporter from the cruddy one. The good sporters are well balanced. Someone took the time and trouble to add weight to the stock or take it away from the forearm to adjust the balance and feel of the piece. You'll find that with most pre-WWII sporters done by professional smiths. You'll also find quality checkering and detail work on the stock, and often length of pull adjustments. After WWII as the prices came down garage jobs became the norm and you end up with frankenguns.

cal30_sniper
January 30, 2013, 06:04 PM
Oooh, if we're doing sporterized picture stories, can I play? I picked these two up as part of a three rifle package deal for $450. The third was a truck gun 7x57 Chilean that's not so pretty to look at (cut down military stock, 18" barrel, 4x Weaver scope, not so good bluing, ugly bolt handle, etc. The other two, were real winners, done by a gunsmith in San Angelo back in the 50s or 60s:

1. Chilean Mauser 95, 7x57
-24" recrowned military barrel
-Single Stage Trigger
-Forged Bolt
-Bedded Walnut Stock w/ swivel sling studs
-D&T w/ Redfield 4X Scope
-Low Swing Safety
-Refinished
-Polished bolt and raceways

http://imageshack.us/a/img547/1527/img0305copy.jpg

2. Swedish Mauser M96, 6.5x55
-Recrowned 20" military barrel
-D&T with Weaver V9 scope
-Low Swing safety
-Forged bolt handle (not the best job, but I've seen worse)
-Fajen Walnut stock (it had a sporterized military stock on it when I got it)
http://imageshack.us/a/img855/6912/img0307copy.jpg

I would have given $450 for just the two of them, the 3rd project was just a bonus. Both are go to hunting rifles in my safe. The swede needs a bit more work yet. I'm planning on adding a Timney or Bold trigger, bedding the stock, and refinishing the outside of the stock. Eventually I'll probably get a better looking bolt handle put on and polish up the bolt some. For now, I'll keep shooting and enjoying it the way it is. You couldn't trade me a pair of new Remingtons or Winchesters for these.

lefteyedom
January 30, 2013, 11:55 PM
There value is solely what the market will bare

dirtyjim
February 1, 2013, 11:23 AM
Having an original stock that has been "recontoured" or cut down. I don't care HOW nice a job it was, if they took the original military stock and tried to cut it into a sporter stock, its junk.



i agree theese three are horrible

spanish 1893 cut down withsmall schabble fore end
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/1916%20sporter/36sporter11.jpg

greek m-s 1903/14 with pistol grip added to cut down military stock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/ms1903/ms1903pic2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/ms1903/ms1903pic3.jpg

early 1903 with cut down staight grip stock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/sporters/springfieldsporteronmilitarystock.jpg

clamman
February 1, 2013, 12:10 PM
I don't have any pictures, but many years ago my best friend sold a 303 british to me because he need money. Paid $50 for it. I did a really nice job sporterizing it. Top shelf work. Surprised him with it for his birthday. He cried. How much was it worth to me? Priceless.:)

mgmorden
February 1, 2013, 07:28 PM
Dirtyjim: I'll concede that the greek gun looks ok (not great, but ok), but the other two still look like crappy cut down sporters to me.

dirtyjim
February 1, 2013, 08:25 PM
We've all got our opinion on what looks good & what looks crappy.
I'd take those three over any richards, fajen, bishop or any monte carlo style stock from any maker.
I also think thumb hole stocks are hideous but lots of people like them.

JShirley
February 1, 2013, 09:42 PM
Generally, a really good Mauser sporter can be valuable. That's about it.

Liberty1776
February 1, 2013, 10:35 PM
Offhand -
Those are two beauties - that's the way to do 'em...

Elkins45
February 2, 2013, 09:16 AM
Here's a couple of my "sporterized" Argentine Mausers. Never underestimate Bubba
I'm familiar with Bubba's work...those don't look like Bubba to me.

browningguy
February 2, 2013, 09:27 AM
I've spent good money on sporterized guns, which honestly are different than a custom gun built on a milsurp action.

Sporterized 1891 Argentine Mauser

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Rifles/1891mauser.jpg

Custom built on a 98 Mauser action

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Rifles/275_Rigby.jpg

Readyrod
February 2, 2013, 09:39 AM
I don't have any pictures, but many years ago my best friend sold a 303 british to me because he need money. Paid $50 for it. I did a really nice job sporterizing it. Top shelf work. Surprised him with it for his birthday. He cried. How much was it worth to me? Priceless.

Awesome dude, everyone should have friends like you.

tahoe2
February 3, 2013, 03:39 AM
As long as the owner of the said sporterized or customized rifle is happy with it's looks and it performs to his/her satisfaction, functions properly and safely, who cares what others think.
Everyone has their own standards and opinions, I have several military mausers, some sporterized, some not, they all work safely, perform admirably and kill just fine.
And I don't care what anybody else thinks about them. This is America and they are mine, don't judge others by your standards.
As far as pricing them, each one is going to be on an individual basis by a qualified appraiser, which may not necessarily be to your liking.

mgmorden
February 4, 2013, 10:08 PM
As long as the owner of the said sporterized or customized rifle is happy with it's looks and it performs to his/her satisfaction, functions properly and safely, who cares what others think.

The thread is discussing resale value of a sporterized gun. If you're happy with whatever gun you have then more power to ya, but when it comes to prices that is intrinsically linked with "what others think".

saturno_v
February 5, 2013, 06:59 PM
This is my sporter which actually is the first firearm I did purchase since moving to the US (I bought it the day after becoming a US citizen)

I don't know if you can use the term "sporterized" because the only original thing left is the Mauser 98 action from the 1930's (it has nazi stamping).

It has a nice sporting stock (with seemingy perfect inletting) with fancy caps, leather sling,

Is rechambered in 30-06 with a contoured sporting barrel.

Bluing is faded along the barrel in areas, stock has few scratches and dings.

Action is buttery smooth and the rifle is very accurate.

Price tag was $200 but I was able to get it for nothing just trading on par a Beretta 92 CO2 replica (a high end one, sold by Beretta itself) pellet gun basically brand new wich I had no interest in whatsoever anymore, can you believe that??

When I got it it had an old Weaver scope with fogged up glass and an index reticle which I sold on ebay for just about $50 or so (scope + base).

So I put it a mode modern scope and base and replaced the recoil pad (the old one was so old that the rubber was basically "cooked up" starting to crumble at the edges)


I would not trade that thing for a brand new Remington 700....

However I heard that as a general rule of thumb, a sporter that has the stock and barrel/sights/bolt handle properly replaced and not hacked/modified military ones tend to be more valuable (obviously assuming a job well done)

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8026/mauser98current.jpg

dirtyjim
February 6, 2013, 11:16 AM
since i own around 30 sporters and customs, and have at least 20 project rifles in the works at any given time i'll give my opinion on their value and probably offened a few people at the same.
your arverage run of the mill sporter is worth $200 or less.
sporters built on gew98, argentine 1909, brazilian 1908, brno 98/22 receivers with nice marking will be worth at least $50 more than WWII era mod 98 receivers.
magnums should be built on fn 1950's or czech vz-24s before i would even consider them.
the majority of aftermarket stocks need to have about 1/3 of their wood rasped off before i would consider them adding to the value of the rifle. classic 20's-30's style stocks on the otherhand can add considerably to the value. $100+ over a boyds or similar aftermarket stock.
bolt mods, only a welded bolt handle adds to the value. forged bolt adds nothing.
drilled and tapped- its probably done off center and out of line so unless i can personaly inspect the d&t job it adds nothing. if done right +$50-75
metal work- if you can boil water you can rust blue so there is no excuse not to have a nice blue job. -$75 if it doesn't have a nice blue job. add a little if the triggergaurd has been tastefully reshaped.
barrel, sporterized should still have the original or a replacement military barrel, but it can be recontoured.+ $25-35 for recontoured barrel. aftermarket barrel puts it into the custom rifle catagory.
sights- quality receiver sight and banded front add $75+, all others with the execption of caterpillar front & express rear add nothing.

collectors don't buy sporterized rifles so their opinions are irelevant and mean nothing

desidog
February 6, 2013, 11:58 AM
collectors don't buy sporterized rifles so their opinions are irelevant and mean nothing


Among other things, I collect sporterized rifles. Apparently, you do too. Are you saying your opinion is irrelevant?

My opinion is relevant because I will buy something for what i think it's worth. Given that this thread is about resale value, and i'm a potential buyer, my opinion is relevant and meaningful. Yours too.

Russ Jackson
February 6, 2013, 12:23 PM
I love a well done sporterized rifle. I did an old Jap Mauser with my Grandpa as a 13 year old. Its my Sons now. I wouldn't sell it for a grand. If someone wants to learn this disappearing art a Military bolt is a great place to start. You might never get return on the time spent, but it will be the first gun of yours that someone will want to shoot or handle. I am 51 and when I was young I am betting that of the 10 people I hunted with as a child 6 were sporterized military guns. They are very personalized. My 18 year old Son and I are doing two Mosin's together.

mr.trooper
February 6, 2013, 01:09 PM
Most decent looking sporters - say, aftermarket wood stock and adjustable sights - are worth about $200 to $250.

A Hackjob - cut up military stock and original or crudely removed / deleted sights and cheapO scope mount - is basically worthless. $100 or less.

Personally, I would never pay even $300 for ANY milsurp sporter unless it was professionally done by well known firearms house, such as the Gibbs, BSA, and Holland & Holland Enfields which were either totally reworked by REAL gunsmiths, or were built from the ground up as sporting rifles. I.E. - $900 is totally fair for an original H&H Enfield sporter from the 30's. A Mosin Nagant in a Boyds drop in stock isn't worth the $200 they spent on it.

In my estimation, about 49% of sporters are in the <$100 "worthless" category. About the same number are in the ~$200 good shooter category, and a select few are +$300 fine rifles.

Unless you can post pictures for us to verify, I would avoid them. If you just HAVE to help the guy out, or are really itching for a bunch of new toys, I would offer $120 each sight unseen. You can bump that up at time of delivery if they are nicer than average or if you feel generous. CYA, because there is a serious chance that they are mostly worthless.

dirtyjim
February 6, 2013, 01:16 PM
Among other things, I collect sporterized rifles. Apparently, you do too. Are you saying your opinion is irrelevant?

My opinion is relevant because I will buy something for what i think it's worth. Given that this thread is about resale value, and i'm a potential buyer, my opinion is relevant and meaningful. Yours too.

in these threads collector means milsurp collector not sporter collector & i'm pretty sure you knew that. milsurp collectors only see a ruined military rifle regaurdless of the condition of the donor rifle or the finished product.

all collectors are good for is regurgitating their tired old line that all sporterizing does is turn a $600 rifle into a $100 and they are clueless and irrelevant in my opinion

hwmoore
February 6, 2013, 02:04 PM
MY 2 cents, if your talking about a forced match mosey. Bubbafacation if done properly hasn't hurt it, hell it can't hurt it I gut mine down to 19 1/2 cleaned and polished everything 2.5 pistol scope You might call it junk but I have a usable truck gun for less than 100 bucks, having said that I will say mine is junk but it works well for what it was intended a beater rifle for a beater truck ( I love fine firearms but a meat stick has a purpose)

skypirate7
February 6, 2013, 03:26 PM
99% of the time, "sporterizing" a milsurp results in a reduction in resale value. A lot of collectors even advise against refinishing the original stock, although if you have a particularly beat-up specimen, refinishing can sometimes increase the resale value if done professionally.

I sold an Ishapore Enfield in excellent condition that I kept all-original. I got $450. By comparison, Ishapores that were modified (ex: drilled and tapped for scope mounts, put into a polymer stock, etc) were going for $250 - $350.

It is irrational for people to spend time and money to decrease the value of their historical rifle... but sadly it happens all the time.

HoosierQ
February 6, 2013, 03:29 PM
i agree theese three are horrible

spanish 1893 cut down withsmall schabble fore end
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/1916%20sporter/36sporter11.jpg

greek m-s 1903/14 with pistol grip added to cut down military stock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/ms1903/ms1903pic2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/ms1903/ms1903pic3.jpg

early 1903 with cut down staight grip stock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/sporters/springfieldsporteronmilitarystock.jpg
I had an option to buy one much like that third one...the '03...for $175 and should have but didn't. Pristine bore. Cut down original wood. Those are the ones that will command the lowest prices unless a new stock was poorly done.

Vern Humphrey
February 6, 2013, 03:30 PM
There's nothing wrong with a well-crafted sporterized military rifle -- I have an '03 Springfield in .35 Brown-Whelen (the most radical form of the Whelen) built by CW Fitch in Phoenix in the late '60s or early '70s. It's a beautiful rifle.

But if you have a pristine '03 Springfield and want to sporterize it, remember -- you can buy a new Model 70 or Model 700 for the cost of the sporterizing, and still have your '03 in original condition.

Russ Jackson
February 6, 2013, 03:52 PM
99% of the time, "sporterizing" a milsurp results in a reduction in resale value. A lot of collectors even advise against refinishing the original stock, although if you have a particularly beat-up specimen, refinishing can sometimes increase the resale value if done professionally.

I sold an Ishapore Enfield in excellent condition that I kept all-original. I got $450. By comparison, Ishapores that were modified (ex: drilled and tapped for scope mounts, put into a polymer stock, etc) were going for $250 - $350.

It is irrational for people to spend time and money to decrease the value of their historical rifle... but sadly it happens all the time.
I agree especially when you should be able to find a non stock one at a good price to sporterize. But if one wants to take a Mosin that was purchased for $99 and sporterize it for shooting, hunting, or learning on. It is a great way to go. With a Mosin ammo is cheap and the money would be saved on the ammo cost alone over a 30-06. Unless you reload of course. Plus they are plenty accurate for sport shooting and medium to large game. You can say that you are destroying original value and future value. But what will top price of a $99 dollar Mosin Nagant be? $500 dollars? I never sell my guns anyway. I give them to family or they will get them when I am gone. Be smart in what you sporterize. Plus my eyes are too bad to use iron sight any way.

saturno_v
February 6, 2013, 04:11 PM
It is irrational for people to spend time and money to decrease the value of their historical rifle... but sadly it happens all the time.



But if you have a pristine '03 Springfield and want to sporterize it, remember -- you can buy a new Model 70 or Model 700 for the cost of the sporterizing, and still have your '03 in original condition.

Sporterizing made more sense in the past than now for sure.

Nowdays we are spoiled by the fact that you can buy an accurate hunting rifle, new, for as little as less than $300 (often in combo with a scope), heck even good quality pieces as a Remington 700 SPS or a Weatherby Vanguard can be had in the $400 range.We live in an era of big box big discount stores where bascically everybody can afford one of these,


50-60 years go was totally different, a good new hunting rifle was probably costing a good chunk of a man take home pay.

Military surplus rifles were very abundant and cheap (Springfields, Mausers, Enfields) and probably back then was costing less to sporterize one, even with the help of a good gunsmith, to make it suitable for hunting than buy a new Winchester 70 for example.

Gunsmith work has skyrocketed in price, surplus rifles dried up boosting up prices and mass produced hunting rifles (if you do not care about fancy wood stock) have significantly come down in price related to wages....in few words, the economics did change.

So yes sporterize does not make financial sense anymore even if you buy a rock bottom price military rifle like a Mosin. By the time you are done you problably spent amost the same amount needed to buy an inexpensive modern hunting rifle (new or used) or a nice sporterized Mauser or Springfiueld that someone already made 50 years ago, American gun shop racks are full of them.

Russ Jackson
February 6, 2013, 05:37 PM
Sporterizing made more sense in the past than now for sure.

Nowdays we are spoiled by the fact that you can buy an accurate hunting rifle, new, for as little as less than $300 (often in combo with a scope), heck even good quality pieces as a Remington 700 SPS or a Weatherby Vanguard can be had in the $400 range.We live in an era of big box big discount stores where bascically everybody can afford one of these,


50-60 years go was totally different, a good new hunting rifle was probably costing a good chunk of a man take home pay.

Military surplus rifles were very abundant and cheap (Springfields, Mausers, Enfields) and probably back then was costing less to sporterize one, even with the help of a good gunsmith, to make it suitable for hunting than buy a new Winchester 70 for example.

Gunsmith work has skyrocketed in price, surplus rifles dried up boosting up prices and mass produced hunting rifles (if you do not care about fancy wood stock) have significantly come down in price related to wages....in few words, the economics did change.

So yes sporterize does not make financial sense anymore even if you buy a rock bottom price military rifle like a Mosin. By the time you are done you problably spent amost the same amount needed to buy an inexpensive modern hunting rifle (new or used) or a nice sporterized Mauser or Springfiueld that someone already made 50 years ago, American gun shop racks are full of them.
There is still something to be said for killing a deer with a 70 year old Mosin Nagant that you sporterized. Plus the skills you will learn along the way supersede the collector value of a mis-matched Nagant. IE: checkering, stock refinishing and shaping, metal work, tap and die, staining and finishing etc.... Especially teaching a young shooter these things. Most people under 35 cannot even change a tire. Lets leave the new guns to Japan China. or the lowest bidder. Its cheaper that way. One day I think the quality sporterized rifles of our Fathers will be appreciated like folk art from a time that was. Created and modified by one of the greatest generations ever. Only time will tell. Personally I would rather have the handcrafted quality sporterized handed down version myself. The hard work and craftsmanship of some of these great rifles in my opinion is way undervalued. You would be hard pressed to buy the quality wood on some of them for the price of the guns.

Cosmoline
February 6, 2013, 05:54 PM
Actually building your own firearm is a far better way to learn the basics.

Bud Tugly
February 6, 2013, 06:37 PM
Saturno makes an excellent point. In 1967 a local store had several crates of .303 Enfields packed in cosmoline that they were selling for $15 each. Being a poor teenager I managed to scrape up the money to buy one, cleaned it up, cut it down, refinished it, and had a deer rifle that I used for years until I could afford something better.

Most other folks who bought them at that time did something similar. They were just old junk guns in the eyes of most people and a way to get a hunting gun cheap.

WWII was a still a fairly recent event for most adults back then and few of them remembered it fondly. The whole idea of collecting memorabilia from it hadn't really become big business like today.

saturno_v
February 6, 2013, 07:17 PM
There is still something to be said for killing a deer with a 70 year old Mosin Nagant that you sporterized. Plus the skills you will learn along the way supersede the collector value of a mis-matched Nagant. IE: checkering, stock refinishing and shaping, metal work, tap and die, staining and finishing etc.... Especially teaching a young shooter these things. Most people under 35 cannot even change a tire. Lets leave the new guns to Japan China. or the lowest bidder. Its cheaper that way.


I agree in principle but reality is that most of the do-it-yourself Mosin sporterization projects turn a decent military rifle into a total piece of junk because most of the people do not have obviously the skills nor the time or the equipment to do a decent job....I rather learn shadowing a good gunsmith before embarking into an adventure like this.


I saw only once a butchered Mosin that someone extremely skilled picked up for literally nothing, fortunately the barrel nor the action were hacked/ruined beyond recover.

Hours and hours of excellent workmansip turned that Mosin action and barrel in a magnificent sporter, exquisite wood and extremely accurate too....that is not definitely a $200 rifle (not that who made it is going to sell it) and if you really want it, you better be prepared to fork way more thant that, regardless of what the "collectors" may say.

But this is the exception not the rule.

Actually building your own firearm is a far better way to learn the basics.

I do not think that in order to be a good, capable shooter I have necessarily to make my own firearm or sporterize a military rifle.

One day I think the quality sporterized rifles of our Fathers will be appreciated like folk art from a time that was. Created and modified by one of the greatest generations ever. Only time will tell. Personally I would rather have the handcrafted quality sporterized handed down version myself. The hard work and craftsmanship of some of these great rifles in my opinion is way undervalued. You would be hard pressed to buy the quality wood on some of them for the price of the guns.


Everything is possible, the firearm market, like most other consumer space can be fickle.

One thing is for sure, I'm not going to get rid of my old beat up South African sporter.

saturno_v
February 6, 2013, 07:29 PM
Saturno makes an excellent point. In 1967 a local store had several crates of .303 Enfields packed in cosmoline that they were selling for $15 each.

Very good example that proves my point. In 1962 (5 years before) the cheapest Remington 700 (ADL) retailed for 114.95.

Assuming a similar price in 1967 (let's say $150 to make it easy), that 303 Enfield you mentioned were sold for 1/10 of a new Remington 700.

Fast forward to present day, a 303 Enfield in good conditions at the big box stores can be had for $150-180.

A Remington 700 SPS can be had in the same place for about $500 on sale, even less for a Weatherby Vanguard not to mention the cheaper Savages, Stevens, Remington 770, Mossberg.

aka108
February 6, 2013, 07:45 PM
I bought 5 basket case 98K's a good number of years ago. The actions were good, barrel of no value, stocks cracked at the wrist and forward part of the stocks look like alligators had gnawed them for a year or so. 40 bucks each. I bought some Mauser take off barrels from a gun dealership called Paragon in Joilet, Il. Nice bright barrels with sights at 20 bucks each or l6 for 100. The forward part of the stock was sacrificed to the radial saw and rounded off by thel sander. Wrist was repaired with a bit of epoxy, some screws and wood dowels. The the stock was sanded, stained and oiled. Put the new barrels on the receivers, lined up the sights and headspaced. Probably ended up with 75 dollars in each. Kept 1 and the other 4 went out the door at 175 each. They were not worth nearly as much as a decent shape original 98K but they were good for their purpose. Harvesting a deer from a tree stand or out to 150 yards or so and not worried about getting it scratched up or out in the rain.

headoftheholler
February 6, 2013, 09:41 PM
My favorite hobby, cutting collectors dreams into what I deem to be a good hunting rifle.
There are two ways to look at sporterizing, one is its a mortal sin to do anything to a military rifle, the other is to breathe new life into a former tool of war to become what I want it to become. Who are you or anybody else in a position to dictate what I should or shouldnt do with my own personal firearms? I dont want the same savage, or Remchesterby that every other redneck can buy off the shelf, I want something I built myself to the standards I dictate, not a gun company. A few of mine, though not nearly as nice as some others on here.
Tikka Mosin sporter on a 1896 reciever, (117 years old)
Sold this one for a hefty profit
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/larryslamps/DSCF9597.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/larryslamps/DSCF9593.jpg

K31 sporter, was a tack driver, traded for shotgun valued at 800
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/larryslamps/DSCF1673.jpg

Swede sporter ( number one choice for deer)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/larryslamps/DSCF1990.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/larryslamps/DSCF2003.jpg

The spanish mauser and K98 project are done yet, the spanish has a figured walnut stock and the K98 has a blonde flamed maple stock.

Got one of the Kimber mausers as well, perfect flat shooting , low recoil, all weather rifle if I ever saw one.

saturno_v
February 6, 2013, 10:23 PM
I bought 5 basket case 98K's a good number of years ago. The actions were good, barrel of no value, stocks cracked at the wrist and forward part of the stocks look like alligators had gnawed them for a year or so. 40 bucks each. I bought some Mauser take off barrels from a gun dealership called Paragon in Joilet, Il. Nice bright barrels with sights at 20 bucks each or l6 for 100. The forward part of the stock was sacrificed to the radial saw and rounded off by thel sander. Wrist was repaired with a bit of epoxy, some screws and wood dowels. The the stock was sanded, stained and oiled. Put the new barrels on the receivers, lined up the sights and headspaced. Probably ended up with 75 dollars in each. Kept 1 and the other 4 went out the door at 175 each. They were not worth nearly as much as a decent shape original 98K but they were good for their purpose. Harvesting a deer from a tree stand or out to 150 yards or so and not worried about getting it scratched up or out in the rain.

I'm glad you were able to sell them but person I would not buy a run of the mill sporterized rifle (I assume they came out good) as a hunting tool in a non common caliber and not tapped for scope (you did not menton it so assume they were not tapped) for that money.

In my neck of the wood you can buy lots of nice sporters in common calibers and with a scope only few 20 dollar bills more or even used commercial hunting rifle.

saturno_v
February 6, 2013, 10:24 PM
headoftheholler

Gorgeous Mosin and Swede!!! I'm jelaous your skills....

Liberty1776
February 6, 2013, 10:41 PM
Bud Tugly -

I remember those Enfields hitting the Army Navy surplus stores in 1967. My dad paid the extra $5 and got an unissued Jungle Carbine for $20. Wisht he'd bought a boat load of them...

bainter1212
February 7, 2013, 12:08 AM
That Greek MS about 10 posts up.....hurts my heart to see that thing sporterized. I have one in original condition, those things are impossible to find nowadays. But I'll bet the action on that thing is slick as glass. Mine is. If it was 1967, the things were everywhere for $15, I would definitely sporterize one. Hindsight is 20/20......

inclinebench
February 7, 2013, 09:50 AM
This is a sporterized K31. I bought the gun with a busted stock and got a Boyd's and spent some time with it. Also got the Swiss Products scope mount. This is now my primary deer gun. Very valuable to me, but worthless for resale.

JShirley
February 7, 2013, 10:51 AM
The problem with even a well-done Mosin-Nagant spoter, is that after all the time, effort, and money expended...you still have a Mosin-Nagant! :barf:

saturno_v
February 7, 2013, 12:18 PM
The problem with even a well-done Mosin-Nagant spoter, is that after all the time, effort, and money expended...you still have a Mosin-Nagant!

So??!! The gorgeaous sporterized one that I had n my hands was EXTREMELY accurate and beautifully balanced, the bolt was as butter smooth as a Mauser 98...so what is the problem?? :rolleyes:

JShirley
February 8, 2013, 10:58 AM
No real useful safety.

R.W.Dale
February 8, 2013, 11:19 AM
So??!! The gorgeaous sporterized one that I had n my hands was EXTREMELY accurate and beautifully balanced, the bolt was as butter smooth as a Mauser 98...so what is the problem?? :rolleyes:

I owned that rifle. A nicely built SCW mosin complete with "made in USSR" stamp. Recontoured bbl, aftermarket sights, deep high Polish blue, bedded fajen stock.

Guess how much I paid for this rifle in 2005?

$170



http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/HPIM0877.jpg

posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

Loosenock
February 8, 2013, 11:39 AM
Some sporterized Milsurp rifles can be picked up for much less than the current market price for the same rifle in its original form. I recently picked this 1917 Remington Mosin Nagant that was sporterized back in the 1920's. The barrel shortened, recrowned with front sight band, bent bolt, Pacific R1 cocking piece aperature sight. The original stock had a section of walnut grafted into it to form a pistol grip.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/loosenock/remsporter001.jpg

An example of the highest quality gunsmithing and finest of the engravers art check out this sporterized Mosin Nagant. There are many other milsurp sporters there too.

It is the 21st post on page 2 of the following link.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=150441&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

'loose

wlewisiii
February 8, 2013, 12:02 PM
As has been said, there are sporters & there are sporters...

On the lesser side I have this:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HyNU3aMQEpQ/S6GVk3MEbmI/AAAAAAAAC-o/nv584LGGwBc/s640/IMG_0650.JPG

Ugly bad cut down stock job on a 7x57 Spanish Mauser 93. Once I put the right height front sight on it, it turned out to be a tack driver though. $125.

Considerably better is this:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GS9e0SxiK4Q/URG-L7zo_oI/AAAAAAAAExw/if6WCU7YCD4/s640/P2051230.JPG

A very nice civilian stock properly fitted to an otherwise unmodified Japanese Type 99. Stock sights, still in original 7.7x58, early rifle with chromed barrel. $150.

Then there is the VZ24 I got for $100 knowing it had a sewer pipe for a barrel. It's been rebarreled with a 19" 7x57 barrel & is waiting till I have the money for a Timney trigger, a good stock & a good (preferably no drill) scout scope mount. When it's done, I'll probably have $500 in a rifle I can sell for $200. But that's the way it is with these kinds of rifles and you either like them or not.

I like them. :cool:

jimmyraythomason
February 8, 2013, 12:59 PM
I got $750 in trade for a Colombian 98 Mauser I built in .308 win. Definitely more than I paid for it(if I actually kept up with those things).

saturno_v
February 8, 2013, 01:16 PM
No real useful safety.


Quite the contrary...you need to get used to it (and have a somewhat strong wrist) but the Mosin safety has some more positive aspects compared to others...

R.W.Dale
February 8, 2013, 03:20 PM
Quite the contrary...you need to get used to it (and have a somewhat strong wrist) but the Mosin safety has some more positive aspects compared to others...

Its useless and inaccessable when you mount a conventional scope

A hunting rifle needs a safety that can be disengaged as you mount the rifle to your shoulder. A mosin fails miserably at this




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