Full resize for hunting??


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va1911
January 30, 2013, 12:18 AM
I am just venturing out and my first loads will be 30.06. The goal here is to work up a load that my rifle likes for hunting big game.

I have read the ABC's twice, Hornady once and am now reading the Lee manual. Lee says that for best accuracy you want to fire form your brass to your gun and only do neck sizings until the case is out of spec. He puts some caveats on this, one being if your ammo will be used for hunting. He never explains why.

Why do I want to do a full case resize every time for hunting ammunition if I am using the same rifle in known conditions every time?

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rcmodel
January 30, 2013, 12:35 AM
if I am using the same rifle in known conditions every time? Because when hunting, you are never ever in the same conditions every time.

One day it's warm, one day it's cold, one day it's colder then a witches ahhh --- Toe, and you got ice frozen in the action.
Another day you got 40 MPH wind, and weed seeds blowing down your shirt and in your rifles action.

FL size.
Then you won't be standing under a tree, with water running down your neck, while trying to get the bolt open on a suck round, that has a weed seed in the chamber, and the bolt won't close, or open.


Full-length size until you are able to prove it makes any difference in accuracy with the hunting rifle you have, in the first place.

If your hunting loads will shoot 1.5" - 2" groups at 100 yards, they will kill game further then you can hold steady enough to hit them from field positions in the first place.

When you finally get an exceptionally accurate target or varmint rifle?
Play with neck-sizing with a rifle accurate enough you can prove it makes a difference that matters.
You get a stuck round at the rifle range, you can take your binky and go home to work on it.

For hunting, don't worry about 1/2 MOA accuracy, and load loads that work, regardless of the hunting conditions you are faced with on any given weather conditions or local.

rc

va1911
January 30, 2013, 12:39 AM
Thank yeh :)

gamestalker
January 30, 2013, 01:40 AM
And although RC is completely accurate in describing what can happen when hunting with necked brass, I still do it anyway and have probably just been plain fortunate to not have encountered an issue that may have halted or interupted my hunt. And let me tell you, a tiny seed or itty bitty bark particle will prevent the bolt from closing if your brass is chamber tight.

Years ago when I first started reloading I hadn't yet induldged in the precision elements of the hobby as yet, and I still managed to make a one shot kill from 600+ yds. through the intended kill zone on an antelope using FL sized standard reloads from my Rem 700 .270 win.. What this really means is that most loads and firearms will shoot far more accurately than the average hunter is capable of. Probably the most important factor in making good accurate kill shots is practicing with your rifle on both paper, and by doing some varmit hunting, coyotes and jack rabbits will deffinitely help hone your field skills.
GS

ReloaderFred
January 30, 2013, 01:54 AM
Yep, there's nothing like driving 1,000+ miles to hunt, and then having the gun jam up because the ammunition fits too tight. I knew when I drove to Northern Alberta to hunt moose that my ammunition was going to function every time, and it did. One shot, one moose.......

I'd hate to spend over $5,000 for a hunt and not be able to take the shot, or even worse, a followup shot on a wounded animal............

Hope this helps.

Fred

kingmt
January 30, 2013, 06:45 AM
I use neck sized.

Grumulkin
January 30, 2013, 07:04 AM
1. It is a myth that neck sized ammo always shoots more accurately than full length sized ammo.

2. If you have used neck sized ammo in your gun and it functions well, there is no reason not to use it hunting.

3. If you believe you can only get 1.5 to 2 inch groups from field positions at 100 yards, you need to explore other field positions.

jwrowland77
January 30, 2013, 08:06 AM
I full length resize every time, and with my hunting round I have .500-.600" groups at 100yds....which is plenty accurate for my hunting rifle. I say full length resize so you're consistent with practice and you'll know pretty much exactly how that round is going to act in the field.

emb
January 30, 2013, 08:34 AM
Every rifle is an individual. I neck size only for my 06s. I have never had any feeding issues in this caliber. If I full length resize the same loads, it does affect the accuracy of the load. However, I know that I can work a load up based on full length resizing that will shoot to my standards. You will need to use the brass from the gun it was shot in. Fundamentally, if you don't have a problem chambering your rounds, just pick one and work up a load. If you are concerned at all, full length resize.

Arkansas Paul
January 30, 2013, 08:44 AM
I've never done anything but full length sized, and my '06 will shoot MOA all day long if I'm on that day. I never saw the need to try neck sizing only, especially with the difficulties you can encounter in the woods, like a very small particle of something or the other clogging the action up.

Trent
January 30, 2013, 09:09 AM
You get a stuck round at the rifle range, you can take your binky and go home to work on it.


HAHAH... oh my.

Take your binky and go home to work on it.

beatledog7
January 30, 2013, 09:10 AM
FL size for hunting, for all the reasons RC noted in his distinctive voice, and most hunters' aim will still be the controlling factor in accuracy. I.e., if you miss, it won't be because you didn't neck size.

But for paper punching and anything where you want to be as accurate as possible, neck sizing will probably be worth trying. Only you and your rifle under your conditions will know for sure.

kingmt
January 30, 2013, 09:45 AM
I'm cheep & my bread last almost forever by NS only. So far my only extraction problem a FL case won't fix Remington put the locking lugs on the bolt upside down. Makes it a really good single shot.

fguffey
January 30, 2013, 10:00 AM
“Full resize for hunting??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am just venturing out and my first loads will be 30.06. The goal here is to work up a load that my rifle likes for hunting big game.

I have read the ABC's twice, Hornady once and am now reading the Lee manual. Lee says that for best accuracy you want to fire form your brass to your gun and only do neck sizings until the case is out of spec. He puts some caveats on this, one being if your ammo will be used for hunting. He never explains why.

Why do I want to do a full case resize every time for hunting ammunition if I am using the same rifle in known conditions every time?”

I have neck sizing dies, small base dies, forming dies, hammer in/out sizing dies, Lyman Ideal dies, etc.. My favorite sizing die is the versatile full length sizer die. Again, I size cases for all chambers from –.012” shorter than minimum length (equal to full length sized) from the head of the case to the shoulder/datum to a +.014” longer than a minimum length/full length sized case in thousandths, that is 26 different length with a RCBS #3 shell holder and sizer die.

R. Lee was not talking to the choir, “He never explains why” , good observation. R. Lee also claimed Federal Primers were the most powerful primers in the world??, that is what I wanted, I wanted the most powerful primers in the world?? Most reloaders on the Internet took him serious, problem, they did not question all the answers. Had they read ‘the book’ they would have found that R. Lee did not test Federal primers, he said they did not donate primers to be tested. Like dies, I have primer installing equipment, RCBS bench top, automatic hand primers, press mounted primer installers, Lee hammer in/out, primer installers on RCBS and Dillon progressive presses with tubes and shielded etc.. Point? I treat all primers as though they were the most powerful, seems most thought Federal primers were sensitive, I do not holler at my primers, I treat all primers as though they were sensitive.

Sizing, mindless thing about reloaders, they do not know the length of the chamber, full length sizing? Again, I have 30/06 rifles, the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder is not the same for all rifles, for example, (again) I have one rifle with a long chamber, it is longer by .011” than a go-gage length chamber, if I full length sized cases for that rifle the case would be shorter from the head of the case to the shoulder than a go-gage length chamber. For me? not a problem, I form 280 Remington cases to 30/06, rather than insist on mindlessly full length sizing I adjust the die off the shell holder .014”. I am the fan of cutting down on all that case travel, and, I do not want anything between the chamber and case but air, not a lot of air, just a little and I want clean air. (R. Lee also covered the part about greasing your bullets, he also covered the part about difficult extraction “He never explains why”,. he did not get that from the Internet, because his book was published before Internet reloading).

I am not interested in knowing if the bolt closes on a go-gage, I am not interested in determining if the bolt will close on a no go-gage, I want to know the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber/datum. Rational? I have control over the length of the case from the head of the case to its shoulder/datum, as a case former/ reloader etc., I know the difference in length between a go-gage length chamber and case from the usual places is .005” (in the perfect world). I have rifles that are not perfect, not a problem, I adjust the length of the case from the head of the case to its shoulder to make-up for those little differences. My presses have threads, my dies have threads, full length sizing is not necessary if the reloader knows the length of the chamber, again, I am not the fan of all that case travel.

F. Guffey

fguffey
January 30, 2013, 10:18 AM
Question all the answers? The perfect chamber and the perfect 30/06 ammo ‘SAAMI says’ is .005” difference in length when measured from the usual places, assuming the chamber is go-gage length, that works, with my versatile full length sizer die I can compensate for the chamber that is not perfect.

Then there should be the ‘Question all the answers’, when do I have time to check the length of the chamber on all the different rifles? Reloaders start over every day, I don’t, once I form cases for different chamber length I only have to do ‘it’ once, dummy cases? depends on who is using them, I make transfers and standards, after making them I verify, then I place them in a 20 case holder.

F. Guffey

45lcshooter
January 30, 2013, 02:20 PM
Full length size everything. It keeps the case in spec for the chamber. Don't want a buldged neck size case jammed in the chamber.

Utryme
January 30, 2013, 02:35 PM
I am still new enough to reloading that this issue confuses me some. What I am not new to is accurate shooting and hunting. The reason to try and make single hole groups with your gun is simple, the tighter that gun is on the range, the closer to perfect your field shot becomes.
2" MOA with a 2" wobble will miss a critter at distance that a 1/2 MOA won't.

witchhunter
January 30, 2013, 09:35 PM
Been relading for a long time, I always neck size when working up loads, but I am most interested in the accuracy. But I cannot argue with RC's reasoning, it is fact.

Trent
January 31, 2013, 06:48 AM
fguffy;

As "gospel" as some people view Reloading manuals (and rightfully so, if they aren't willing to take the time and effort, and equipment, to submit to testing themselves), the manuals were written by people. Normal people, just like me and you, that fart in the morning and complain about the weather when they leave for work.

I grew up slightly different than most of my generation. I take the time to fact-check and second-source my information. It doesn't matter how innocuous it is. I take nothing at face value. It's one of the relatively minor traits that's made the difference between success and failure in business. It drives my immediate family members nuts sometimes. It takes a lot of time. But I learn a bit, here and there.

If you're just getting in to reloading; get a couple of opinions. If you read something that you question, remember, you have every right to question it.

A lot of the whichamadads and thingamabobs we take for granted today was discovered over the last 120 years by trial and error, and just plain old experimentation. We do NOT know everything. And a good deal of the misconceptions that existed 100 years ago still exist today. :)

Anyway, just wanted to add the above to the conversation.

If you have shot that rifle, OP, and you've neck sized, and your casings feed fine, you're gonna be fine.

Neck size or full size, either way there's one other thing under your control, that will assuredly ruin you day .. that is, if you forget to measure and TRIM your brass. Pinching that bullet and brass together in the leads will ruin your day. :)

Walkalong
January 31, 2013, 07:40 AM
Yes, FL size hunting ammo. Function is more important than perhaps another 1/4 or 1/8 MOA I cannot hold without a rest anyway. Besides, you may find FL sized ammo more accurate in your gun anyway.

sage5907
January 31, 2013, 08:00 PM
For the first 45 years I reloaded ammo I full length resized. About 2 years ago I started sizing my 30-06 cases to the "0" line on my RCBS case micrometer which is about .002 longer than full length resizing. Since I shoot the cartridges in 4 rifles I thought it would extend the case life. However, after trying it both ways I agree with rc's write-up and I plan to go back to full length resizing for my next batch. For me, I couldn't see any benefit to not setting the shoulder back that extra .002.

mljdeckard
January 31, 2013, 08:36 PM
I haven't tried neck sizing yet, I plan to for my bolt rifles. I dunno, maybe I just baby my guns a lot, or I'm too much of a wuss to REALLY stay out in nasty conditions, I have never gotten a bolt rifle stuck with any ammo before. Maybe I will pay close attention to the difference, if any.

JRWhit
January 31, 2013, 09:01 PM
I hear the answers of why not to necksize for hunting but I have to ask. Are there any accounts of someone who neck sized hunting loads, having a round that wouldn't chamber due to weather differences? From my understanding,all be it probably greener than most, the main difference is the amount the brass is allowed to expand in the chamber when fired. I could see an issue with tid bits getting in the chamber if the tid bits are large enough to cause issue and not large enough to see. The difference in material that would block a FL but not a NS cartridge would be minimal.But to change the diameter of the cartridge, or the length? I can't see a 60 degree temp swing causing that. I'm not saying it isn't true but if it is there must be some proof or account of it happening.



Just wondering if this is one those," Well that's just the way it's always been.", type deals.

sage5907
January 31, 2013, 10:37 PM
When you hunt you want the bolt to cycle very smoothly to cut down on the time it takes for a second shot. When you close the bolt on a fire formed case you may feel snugness on the bolt handle due to the case having a tight fit in the chamber so the bolt doesn't cycle as smoothly. My interpretation of this snugness is that there is springback in the case and the chamber compresses the brass to compress this springback when a necksized case is placed in the chamber again.

hueyville
January 31, 2013, 11:02 PM
On my prairie dog and crow guns, accuracy is job one. Neck size only. For a rifle/load combo that may be used in a myriad of weather conditions from warm day at the range to 17 degrees in the field on something I would rather not have upset because I wounded him just enough to get mean and want a quick follow up I partial size sometimes and neck size others. Every high power rifle round I make goes in a box marked for said rifle. Morning of hunt I check the rounds for cycling for grins. I really don't hunt big stuff much anymore but when talked into a hunting trip, I pull a prepared box, verify the scope and go.

JRWhit
January 31, 2013, 11:03 PM
When you hunt you want the bolt to cycle very smoothly to cut down on the time it takes for a second shot. When you close the bolt on a fire formed case you may feel snugness on the bolt handle due to the case having a tight fit in the chamber so the bolt doesn't cycle as smoothly. My interpretation of this snugness is that there is springback in the case and the chamber compresses the brass to compress this springback when a necksized case is placed in the chamber again.
That makes more sense.

Zeke/PA
February 1, 2013, 12:00 AM
With my Bolt Rifles I usually got by without full length sizing.
Now my Grandson and I use the same ammo in two different rifles so full length sizing is the thing to do.
Of course in my Ruger #1's full length sizing is a must!

Walkalong
February 1, 2013, 07:37 AM
My interpretation of this snugness is that there is springback in the case and the chamber compresses the brass to compress this springback when a necksized case is placed in the chamber again.The bolt has a lot of leverage and will crush fit cases. As posted, for hunting you want flawless easy chambering.

kingmt
February 1, 2013, 09:09 AM
My brass fits as easy NS as it does FL. I also check my ammo for fit in my chamber before I package it for hunting. I really don't ponder on speed since my favorite shooter sucks at loading from the mag so I use it at single shot. I'm probably as fast as most even at loading this way.

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