Cleaning new pistol 5 times between shots before firing?


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jawman
January 30, 2013, 11:10 PM
Here's where my question comes from:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/perry/perry51.1.html

Basically, the author is suggesting that when you get your new gun, do the following before normal shooting:


Clean: Run 1 wet patch of solvent through the barrel. Then run a wet brush or boresnake with solvent through the barrel. Then run dry patches through the barrel until they come out clean and dry.
Shoot 1 round.
Clean it again, following the same cleaning procedure as stated above in #1.
Shoot 2 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 3 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 4 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 5 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.


Now you are ready to do "normal" shooting, and shoot as much as you like.


Okay, so is this truly helpful and a good idea to do or is it overkill?

I know everyone has a different opinion and the answers will vary, but I'd like to hear what everyone has to say on this.

Edit: If you agree with this, please explain why. If you do not agree, please explain why. If you agree somewhat and also disagree somewhat, well you get the picture.

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Jim Watson
January 30, 2013, 11:14 PM
This sort of break in ritual is hotly debated for target rifle barrels.

It is of no use in a pistol. I do agree with his recommendation to clean thoroughly before shooting, though. One of the very early TV shooting shows had a host who believed in cleaning a new barrel with soap and boiling water.

Teachu2
January 30, 2013, 11:40 PM
I know some who do this with rifles, none who do so with pistols. These days, my new handguns are lucky to get a patch down the bore before I start shooting them. I check the bore for debris, load, and go. Has yet to show any ill effects.

B!ngo
January 30, 2013, 11:49 PM
Three letters:
O
C
D

B

Joe I
January 30, 2013, 11:55 PM
Ha! The inside of most pistol barrels are so rough from the factory, that a little fouling might help smooth them out!

Seriously though, there are so many factors contributing to accuracy (or lack thereof) in a semi-auto pistol, that barrel break-in just isn't a factor.

Since you wanted specifics, here's what comes immediately to mind...

You only have a short sight radius to work with, and the sight picture is usually very coarse to speed sight alignment. The barrel-to-slide fit is often sloppy. Most chambers are loose to enhance feed reliability. Many barrels have a bore diameter that's actually a few thousandths OVER bullet diameter, which is extremely detrimental to accuracy.

With all of that said, the single biggest variable in a handgun accuracy system is the shooter -- most pistol shooters have a problem with trigger control, dropping shots low and left and then blaming it on the sights. Or having trouble hitting a 10" circle from 15 yards away, which is well within the mechanical accuracy capability of most any pistol.

It takes a lot of time and thousands of rounds to build skill in pistol shooting, and I wouldn't waste any of it on barrel break-in practices such as described above.

TimboKhan
January 30, 2013, 11:58 PM
I am interested to see if anyone can defend this practice, because I certainly don't see the benefit of it.

But, then I have gone on record any number of times that I think most guns are over-cleaned anyway, an opinion that is shared by some and vilified by others. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter to me because they are not my guns and therefore I don't really care what people do with them maintenance wise.

Sheepdog1968
January 30, 2013, 11:59 PM
Follow instructions in owners manual. Some firearms contain a grit paste to finish the polishing process,over first few hundred rounds.

Bovice
January 31, 2013, 12:09 AM
Wow.

No, don't do that. That's a complete waste of time and cleaning supplies, and it'll make you look like a fool if somebody sees you.

TyGuy
January 31, 2013, 12:14 AM
No. No need to "break in" barrels for pistols or rifles. Search the google for articles about it.

Bongo Boy
January 31, 2013, 12:47 AM
I believe that procedure is for fussy old farts who don't have to be anywhere. Or perhaps for shooters who are more accustomed to shooting muzzle-loaders and haven' quite made the transition yet. :)

But seriously, there's nothing wrong with field stripping and cleaning the gun when you first take delivery of it, and inspecting the gun thoroughly for any issues. Not something I've ever done, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't.

tarosean
January 31, 2013, 01:56 AM
"Homey dont think so." as the old clown used to say on a TV show...

CajunBass
January 31, 2013, 07:10 AM
I check to make sure there are no dirt dobber nests in the barrel and go shooting. :D

Seriously, I might clean a new gun if it's dripping goo from the factory, but I don't worry about it too much.

Anybody who follows the procedure in the OP must be younger than I am, and thinks he's going to live forever.

tuj
January 31, 2013, 07:30 AM
Completely unnecessary for a production pistol. When you get a $3k benchrest *barrel*, then you probably want to be over-cautious.

But seriously, there's nothing wrong with field stripping and cleaning the gun when you first take delivery of it, and inspecting the gun thoroughly for any issues.

This should ALWAYS be done when taking possession of a new gun. Checking the chamber for any signs of cracks, ensuring the safety(s) function properly. I once got a new (used) gun and the firing pin was broke. Took it out on the range and it was just 'click click click'. Now I always check over my guns when I take possession. Things can break even on new guns just being shipped from the factory.

JTQ
January 31, 2013, 07:44 AM
For an opposing view from Schuemann Barrels

http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf

Sam1911
January 31, 2013, 07:51 AM
Agreed with all above.

Do a thorough field strip, cleaning and oiling before shooting. Then run the gun through a warm up of 500-1,000 rds. Clean again and inspect.

Afterward, field strip and clean every 500-1,000 rds, and maybe detail strip and deep clean every 2,000-3,000.

CPshooter
January 31, 2013, 07:52 AM
It sounds like the author has severe OCD and wants to pass his rituals on to the next guy. Serious overkill and zero accuracy advantage.

Sam1911
January 31, 2013, 07:55 AM
My new book: "Zen and the Art of Spending More Time With a Cleaning Patch and a Bottle of Hoppes Than Pulling Triggers", should hit the shelves soon and will explain this in more detail... ;)

tuj
January 31, 2013, 08:07 AM
Serious overkill and zero accuracy advantage.

Aside from being OCD and overkill, excessive incorrect cleaning methods will damage a barrel far faster than just shooting it.

REPOMAN
January 31, 2013, 10:20 AM
I'm with Tuj...... If I'm going to damage a barrel.... I'm gonna do it while shooting...Not while cleaning it... Shooting is way more fun.

ATLDave
January 31, 2013, 10:56 AM
I have zero inclination to take advice from someone who begins with a non sequitur and then proceeds to loudly proclaim the virtues of some practice without even the most basic explanation as to why that practice would be good. He (the author of the linked article) offers some explanation as to why one should clean before the first shot (which I agree with). He offers an argument in favor of loading 2 rounds first, which at least is not crazy. He offers NO argument or explanation for how cleaning between the first round and the second and third does anything beneficial, and certainly no justification for the subsequent stages.

Reminds me of the stuff one finds on performance car forums talking about various (and often diametrically-opposed) break-in regimens for car engines. At least there they have some theory that doing such-and-such causes the rings to seat better or something. Here, the guy just promises better accuracy and/or barrel life.

Fire_Moose
January 31, 2013, 01:03 PM
20:1 this is a rumor started by gun cleaning supplies companies.

Sent from my CZ85 Combat

JohnBiltz
January 31, 2013, 02:25 PM
I have owned a rifle that came with those instructions. But its generally just high end rifles.

pat701
January 31, 2013, 04:22 PM
Thats how i broke in all my rifles:)

joeschmoe
January 31, 2013, 04:40 PM
... But its generally just high end rifles.

... and only for carbon steel barrels. No SS or chrome lined barrels benefit from the holy break in ritual.

Pistols? Ttthhhpppbbbbttt's.... :rolleyes:

twice barrel
January 31, 2013, 06:50 PM
Of course, it won't hurt anything if you do it. But I also only field strip and clean mine up before its first trip to the range and I clean my fired guns when I return even though many say they don't need it. They're mine and I like to keep them clean.

TB

JohnBT
January 31, 2013, 08:00 PM
All those old guns we pay too much for shoot just fine, don't they?

Do you know why almost all of those old, collectable guns don't have boxes with them? I think it's because a lot of folks did what I was taught back in the '50s. You used the box for a target, either on the way home or as soon as you got there. Or both.

I mean really, you're in the car on the way home with a new gun and a box of ammo, what are you going to do? You pull over and prop the box against a stump and shoot a few holes in it.

Is there any evidence at all of a bunch of ruined guns from, oh, the '50s say? Call it post-WWII.

Yes, I do look down the barrel to see if the hole goes all the way through before I fire it.

orionengnr
January 31, 2013, 08:27 PM
I have never heard of the author, and I think there is a good reason for that. ;)

I am as OCD as most when it comes to cleaning, but this guy is way over the top. When I buy a new (or more often, used) handgun, I take it home, field strip, inspect and clean. After each range session, I clean it, even if I have only put one mag (or cylinder) through it (and no, that does not happen frequently).

Les Baer recommends putting 500 rounds through it before initial strip and clean--this performs the required "break-in". Unfortunately, I can't afford a new Les Baer, so I cannot test their theory. :rolleyes:

jawman
January 31, 2013, 09:15 PM
For an opposing view from Schuemann Barrels

http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf
Wow, so Schuemann Barrels recommends never cleaning the bore. First I've ever heard of something like that. Don't know what to think of it.

ddc
February 1, 2013, 02:14 AM
Right after I got done reading the OP I had a strange compulsion to pull all my guns out of the safe and run a patch through each of them... but the thought really tired me out, so I took a nap, and when I woke up I decided I'd wait until tomorrow...

mljdeckard
February 1, 2013, 02:23 AM
Oh for the love of Browning,

Handgun barrels and shooting are not at the level of precision where this will make a difference. Some people think that a similar break-in process is necessary for RIFLE barrels, but others (like myself) have found they shoot just fine out of the box. If there really is a benefit, it's probably almost entirely done in the first ten rounds. I dare you to try this with two pistols, one with, one without this process, get out your micrometer, and see if you can discern any difference whatsoever.

mljdeckard
February 1, 2013, 02:25 AM
tarosean pulled out Homey. :D

xxjumbojimboxx
February 1, 2013, 03:32 AM
Yeah, Gotta say it looks like a complete waste of time and materials to me... Maybe if you tried to fire an old mosin or something that you werent sure if it still had a bunch of cosmoline lining the bore?

Youd be an idiot to fire it in that condition though

xxjumbojimboxx
February 1, 2013, 03:35 AM
Wow, so Schuemann Barrels recommends never cleaning the bore. First I've ever heard of something like that. Don't know what to think of it.
Whaaaa?

meanmrmustard
February 1, 2013, 07:00 AM
Three letters:
O
C
D

B
Which correspond with:
J
S
I

GBExpat
February 1, 2013, 07:32 AM
Okay, so is this truly helpful and a good idea to do or is it overkill?
3rd Choice: It is Silly.

TimboKhan
February 1, 2013, 10:21 AM
Well, in theory, why would you need to clean the bore under normal use? Chambers, yes, but have you ever seen a bore so dirty that a bullet won't pass down it? I literally have never run a bore brush down my 10/22, and I have shot it since the 70's. Still accurate, still functions. Having shot a few pistols into the hundreds and once into the thousands without cleaning them, I can say that while other stuff was dirty, the bores were fine, so maybe the guy has a point...

I guess I could see it with corrosive ammo, but how often does that happen in a handgun?

tuj
February 1, 2013, 10:31 AM
Well, in theory, why would you need to clean the bore under normal use?

Copper or lead fouling can build up in the bore such that the diameter is reduced to a point where over-pressure can occur. Granted I have never heard of anyone blowing up their gun by never ever cleaning the bore, but I have seen literally STRIPS of lead come out of a 1911 barrel that had never been cleaned.

ATLDave
February 1, 2013, 11:35 AM
Copper or lead fouling can build up in the bore such that the diameter is reduced to a point where over-pressure can occur. Granted I have never heard of anyone blowing up their gun by never ever cleaning the bore, but I have seen literally STRIPS of lead come out of a 1911 barrel that had never been cleaned.

Yeah, I got big long scabs of lead out of a .22 after firing a few thousand unjacketed bullets in just a few days.

With jacketed bullets, I find the concept of never cleaning the bore to be plausible. But not with lead.

sleepyone
February 1, 2013, 03:00 PM
Sounds like some people have more time on their hands than me. If you are looking for a break-in method that involves lots of time yet is a thoroughly enjoyable method for breaking in barrels on new guns.... Run a lightly oiled patch through it once, or twice if something comes out with the first patch and then shoot the snot out of it.

HKGuns
February 1, 2013, 05:48 PM
That just might be the most ignorant thing I've ever read concerning pistols. Exactly what is it supposed to do other than waste time and sell cleaning solvent?

This guy is an absolute moron. Read this.....

Semi-automatics always have a risk — albeit a low risk — of turning full auto due to improper handling and unintentional gunsmithing (or in some cases intentional gunsmithing). The first time you shoot a new or used semi-auto, never load more than 2 rounds or you risk your weapon shooting full auto. The risk is small but I know of no disagreements in the gun community on this possibility. When you are new to a gun you certainly don't want the uncertainty of it turning into full auto the first time you pull the trigger.

So just load one round and shoot it. You'll get to shoot more later.

Alizard
February 1, 2013, 05:59 PM
Does anybody else remember that nearly every gun sold has had a couple of magazines of ammo shot through it at the factory?

They sure don't clean the barrel between each round......

Sam1911
February 1, 2013, 06:07 PM
So just load one round and shoot it.Yeah, sure...it has happened. I wouldn't worry about it with new guns. I probably wouldn't really bother with used guns either. Guns that just came back from getting a trigger job? OOOOoh yeah.

kyletx1911
February 1, 2013, 06:15 PM
I am interested to see if anyone can defend this practice, because I certainly don't see the benefit of it.

But, then I have gone on record any number of times that I think most guns are over-cleaned anyway, an opinion that is shared by some and vilified by others. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter to me because they are not my guns and therefore I don't really care what people do with them maintenance wise.
tru dis

MRH
February 1, 2013, 06:30 PM
For a handgun, I'd field strip (to see how it is put together) and clean the barrel. I don't clean handguns very often - usually when the crud annoys me or when the gun gets sluggish. (Except for carry guns, which I clean after shooting)

Years ago I took delivery of a new gun. There was a spider in the barrel. Don't know if the critter would have affected shooting, but I poked him out of the barrel anyway.

The Lone Haranguer
February 2, 2013, 11:21 AM
You should strip and clean any new pistol before shooting it, if for no other reason than to get the preservative off, lubricate it properly and make sure nothing got stuck up the barrel. But stop every five rounds to clean the bore? Silly.

jerkface11
February 2, 2013, 11:25 AM
I have owned a rifle that came with those instructions. But its generally just high end rifles.

High end rifles should have a hand lapped bore. Only cheap stuff should require any form of break in.

DammitBoy
February 2, 2013, 11:32 AM
Clean: Run 1 wet patch of solvent through the barrel. Then run a wet brush or boresnake with solvent through the barrel. Then run dry patches through the barrel until they come out clean and dry.
Shoot 1 round.
Clean it again, following the same cleaning procedure as stated above in #1.
Shoot 2 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 3 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 4 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 5 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.


http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/35201_kNEpdid6wchuUDi.jpg

Mosbyranger
February 2, 2013, 11:51 AM
Obviously a ploy by the evil NRA and their satanic friends in the gun manufacturing industry to increase their profits by coercing illiterate, knuckle dragging, right wing, gun toting, drooling, retarded fanatics to purchase more products to keep their wicked fully semi automatic black weapons functioning so they can slaughter innocents. Daily. The horror....
MR

You are now limited to one small bottle of Hoppes and two patches per year.

Onward Allusion
February 2, 2013, 12:04 PM
I actually saw someone doing exactly that at a club I'd belonged to. It was with an AR though. Not a pistol. She was punching tacks at 100 yards. Literally through the same hole.

Me, I would never do anything like that, especially with a pistol. All my guns are meant to be shot and not babied. Hell, they'd be lucky if they get cleaned after a range trip. I don't shoot bullseye or any type of competition and it wold be a total waste of time.

gspn
February 2, 2013, 12:15 PM
Where is the logical basis for this procedure? 1,2,3,4,5 rounds? Sure looks neat but I see no reason for it. Why not 1 round then 3 rounds then 5 rounds then 7 rounds then 9 rounds? Or if you like even numbers 2,4,6,8,10?

I clean the barrel and then shoot. I clean the barrel first because the owners manuals for the guns i've had suggest to do that...because they applied a grease to the barrel to prevent rust during shipping and storage. Once that has been removed they say I'm good to go.

That procedure you are looking at has no logical basis so I'd skip it. Others have said above it looks like the ultimate OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) guide to shooting.

gspn
February 2, 2013, 12:22 PM
http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/35201_kNEpdid6wchuUDi.jpg

aaaaaahahahahahah! aaaahaahahahahahaaa AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0uYyPZ4Fgs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cT_Ulmcrys

Sav .250
February 2, 2013, 12:34 PM
Sounds like the author is a excessive compulsive. Way back,long before folks really knew about such things, you just bought your weapon, loaded it and it and fired away.
Lots of those weapons are still around today and still shoot well. J s/n.

Walt Sherrill
February 2, 2013, 01:59 PM
Sometime back I found an article by a renowned barrel maker, who talked about the suggested break-in technique for his very high-end guns, and observed problems -- using microscopes when other methods were used. As usual, I couldn't find the article. I did find another (which I had "SAVED") which addresses the process of making and refining barrels -- but this article is focused mostly on long guns. Some of it applies to handguns, as well.

It would seem that break-in is less critical in shorter barrels, as there is less room for accuracy-robbing imperfections. The article is a good read, and has links to other articles of interest:

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotBarrelMakingFeature.htm

jawman
February 2, 2013, 02:24 PM
Clean: Run 1 wet patch of solvent through the barrel. Then run a wet brush or boresnake with solvent through the barrel. Then run dry patches through the barrel until they come out clean and dry.
Shoot 1 round.
Clean it again, following the same cleaning procedure as stated above in #1.
Shoot 2 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 3 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 4 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.
Shoot 5 rounds.
Clean again as outlined in #1.


http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/35201_kNEpdid6wchuUDi.jpg
Haha yes. Bravo. You win the Internets.

Owen
February 2, 2013, 02:46 PM
On the "don't clean the bore" side of the equation, it's common for small bore rifle and pistol competitors, and some rim fire bench rest competitors to only clean the bore if they are changing ammunition brands. The theory is that grease on the .22LR bullets affects accuracy, and it takes time to build that grease layer in the bore, and even longer to switch it out via shooting when you change brands.

In my experience this seems to be true, but I can't possibly afford to quantify it.

Fishslayer
February 3, 2013, 12:25 AM
With jacketed bullets, I find the concept of never cleaning the bore to be plausible. But not with lead.

I have actually come home from a range session shooting lead bullets & found the streaks & strips of lead...

...found that running a magazine or cylinder of plated/jacketed at the end of the session yielded a bore that was clean enough after a few strokes of a brush w/Hoppes and some patches.


Haha yes. Bravo. You win the Internets.

I lawld at that one too! :D

herkyguy
February 3, 2013, 02:35 PM
I don't actually shoot my guns for fear of the dreaded fouling. I just clean them. Every day. Twice.

lowercase
February 3, 2013, 02:43 PM
I had a guy at a gun shop tell me about this cleaning ritual. He was actually recommending it to me for an AK I was purchasing.

I just looked at him like he had grown a third eye.

I believe in having a clean gun, but even I have limits.

5-SHOTS
February 3, 2013, 05:46 PM
Only Kelbly long range rifles or other guns in the same class needs that break-in steps.

jerkface11
February 3, 2013, 09:02 PM
Why do people think expensive barrels need break in? They shouldn't have any tooling marks at all that's WHY they are expensive.

C0untZer0
February 3, 2013, 09:12 PM
Obsessive Compulsive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdc6KQmOb70

Skribs
February 4, 2013, 10:52 AM
This guy recommends only cleaning it 5 times?

(sarcasm)

460Kodiak
February 4, 2013, 04:16 PM
Clean and lube when you take it out of the box. Shoot the heck out of it. Clean and lube after. The rest is hog wash.

Or you could do what I do. I never shoot my guns for fear of getting them dirty. I just take the grips off, and leave them in large mason jars of Hoppe's #9 all the time. It also provides me a clever way to conceal my other collections...... pickled pig's feet, preserved horse brains, and jars of urine............ Funny, no one ever wants to go shooting with me or touch my guns for fear that I confused Hoppe's with the formaldehyde or the pig feet juices.

I know, it's a weird joke..... but funny.

jerkface11
February 4, 2013, 09:52 PM
I know, it's a weird joke..... but funny.

Well you're half right.

TimboKhan
February 5, 2013, 12:27 AM
OK then. I don't really want to close this, but continuing this thread with another few pages of people unanimously disagreeing is also kind of pointless. So, rather than close it, lets just let this one die a quiet death unless you can defend the practice (which, you know, good luck).

Honestly, I am not trying to be the big boss of the thread, but criminy, I don't know that I have ever seen such unanimous sentiment on one topic, and I am not going to leave this open if there isn't going to be anything more than more unanimity.

jawman
February 5, 2013, 01:00 AM
OK then. I don't really want to close this, but continuing this thread with another few pages of people unanimously disagreeing is also kind of pointless. So, rather than close it, lets just let this one die a quiet death unless you can defend the practice (which, you know, good luck).

Honestly, I am not trying to be the big boss of the thread, but criminy, I don't know that I have ever seen such unanimous sentiment on one topic, and I am not going to leave this open if there isn't going to be anything more than more unanimity.
Lol, I enjoyed reading that. And yes, I completely agree - let's just let this die as it should. Although I thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's responses and am thankful for their input. Many of them gave me a good laugh. And if there's anyone out there that thinks they can defend this practice, I doubt they have the courage to speak up about it on here now that there's 3 pages of people not only disagreeing, but downright laughing at this unnecessary overkill practice of cleaning to break in a new pistol. And I'll be honest, I figured it was over the top but really wanted to see everyone's responses to it. There are some great users on THR and it's always fun to hear from them, even if it's not only about knowledge but has some entertainment value to add as well.

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