Load Data


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ObsidianOne
January 31, 2013, 12:39 AM
I can't for the life of me figure out why powder manufacturers only do select loads, with specific bullet and primer types.
For example, why do they only do 200 and 210 grain projectiles for Unique for .41 Magnum? Wouldn't it make sense to do the heavier bullets, as you can use the load data for the heavier bullets and work up?

Also, why do they list a Speer Gold Dot Hollow point instead of ball ammo for 9mm? I seriously doubt the most common load is with that bullet, let alone hollow points in general.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=115&shellid=23&bulletid=25


I am rather new to reloading, am I missing something here? How am I going to find load data for my 215 gr. and higher for 41 Magnum?

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Hondo 60
January 31, 2013, 12:44 AM
A lot of it is ownership and /or partnership.
Who owns Speer?

That's like a LOT of Hodgdon's data is done with Hornady bullets.
I'm not saying Hodgdon owns Hornady or vise versa.

But I vaguely recall a saying about strange bed fellows...

ArchAngelCD
January 31, 2013, 12:48 AM
Also, why do they list a Speer Gold Dot Hollow point instead of ball ammo for 9mm? I seriously doubt the most common load is with that bullet, let alone hollow points in general.
Well that's an easy one. Both Alliant powders and Speer along with Federal, CCI, RCBS, Weaver and a whole lot more are owned by the same parent company, ATK.

ObsidianOne
January 31, 2013, 12:54 AM
So essentially, unless I'm loading the same gr hollowpoints, then I'm completely up the creek without a paddle with their powder?

ArchAngelCD
January 31, 2013, 01:02 AM
So essentially, unless I'm loading the same gr hollowpoints, then I'm completely up the creek without a paddle with their powder?
Not at all. You can use load data for the same weight bullet with your bullets as long as they are of similar profile and composition. (lead for lead, jacketed for jacketed) That's why there is a starting charge weight, as a baseline and then you work up. you can use HP data with a FMJ bullet of the same weight, only the OAL will be useless.

Also, the Alliant site should be your only source. IMO you should have multiple sources for cross reference of data.

kerreckt
January 31, 2013, 01:07 AM
That is why you should use as many reputable references as you possibly can.

ReloaderFred
January 31, 2013, 01:22 AM
To the OP:

I've been in the ballistics labs of both Sierra Bullets and Nosler Bullets. It takes days to develop even one combination, let alone several combinations. The companies that produce loading data have invested a lot of time and money into the data they produce. Instead of taking them to task for not using "your" bullet, you should be thanking them for what they've done.

Use what's offered as a baseline, like ArchAngelCD says, and work up your loads. On the other hand, if you want to be inventive, you can invest in the $150.00 QuickLoad Program and work up your own data, like I do.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ObsidianOne
January 31, 2013, 05:06 PM
But given that logic, since these powders have been around for so long, shouldn't they have more combinations?
I'm not saying just "my bullet", I'm saying in general. How can you use their product safely without receiving load data from them? Shouldn't they, if anyone, know and develop the load data?
I'm absolutely thankful for what has been done, but I'm thankful in a way that if someone was building a house for me and I was paying them, but they didn't put a roof on it.

It would just be nice if I had data for more than 2 bullet weights for an entire caliber...

ATLDave
January 31, 2013, 05:42 PM
That's why it's good to have more than one load manual...

grandpawj
January 31, 2013, 06:19 PM
I also suscribe to "Loaddata.com" by Wolfe Publishing company. It cost's $29 per year but they have hundreds of thousands of load data. Just realize it is data develope by different sources, however it is a good reference. Lets you know if you are in the ballpark. As others have advised, start low and work up.

twice barrel
January 31, 2013, 07:46 PM
Of course you could also buy the loading manual and only use components they list.

Its not the powder manufacturer's job to develop data for the components you select. The same argument could be made to demand the bullet manufacturer of your choice should develop a load reference for the cases, powders, and primers you select....Good luck with that.

ReloaderFred
January 31, 2013, 09:06 PM
I don't know of any commercial cast bullet producer who provides loading data for their bullets, let alone free of charge. Does that mean you shouldn't use any of those cast bullets? Of course not.

Using the bullets safely, as you put it, simply means working up your load from known data with similar bullets. It's not the same as building a house at all, since you pay the contractor for a completed product. You don't pay the lumber yard for the completed house, just the materials to build it with. It's up to you to either build it yourself, or hire someone else to do it for you. It's the same with reloading.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ArchAngelCD
January 31, 2013, 11:44 PM
I don't know of any commercial cast bullet producer who provides loading data for their bullets, let alone free of charge. Does that mean you shouldn't use any of those cast bullets? Of course not.

Using the bullets safely, as you put it, simply means working up your load from known data with similar bullets. It's not the same as building a house at all, since you pay the contractor for a completed product. You don't pay the lumber yard for the completed house, just the materials to build it with. It's up to you to either build it yourself, or hire someone else to do it for you. It's the same with reloading.

Hope this helps.

Fred
I couldn't have said it better. That is true IMO...

ObsidianOne
February 1, 2013, 12:32 AM
I don't know of any commercial cast bullet producer who provides loading data for their bullets, let alone free of charge. Does that mean you shouldn't use any of those cast bullets? Of course not.

Using the bullets safely, as you put it, simply means working up your load from known data with similar bullets. It's not the same as building a house at all, since you pay the contractor for a completed product. You don't pay the lumber yard for the completed house, just the materials to build it with. It's up to you to either build it yourself, or hire someone else to do it for you. It's the same with reloading.

Hope this helps.

Fred
I see the logic that you're using, but I still think for safety sake they should provide a bit more information, if not just to go the extra mile for the customer. But I suppose we have to take what we can get.
Say there is only a load for a 210 gr .41 mag bullet, how would one figure out what a 220 gr bullet's load should be? Start with the low end of the .210 and see what happens?
What about for a more dramatic jump, say 115 gr 9x19 up to a 147 gr?

Jim Watson
February 1, 2013, 12:39 AM
If I wanted to go from a 210 to a 220 gr .41, I figure I could sneak up on it.

If a source had data with a given powder for a 115 gr 9mm P but not a 147 I might suspect that they knew something I didn't and it was not a good combination.

ArchAngelCD
February 1, 2013, 12:47 AM
Problem is, your basing your criticism on the Alliant load data site. If you go to the Hodgdon load data site. you will find 41 Magnum load data for 170gr, 200gr, 210gr, 215gr, 220gr, 245gr, 250gr, 255gr and 265gr bullets. That's 9 bullets which is a heck of a lot more bullets than the 2 the Alliant site supplies data for.

The Lyman #49 load manual supplies data for 4 bullets from 170gr to 220gr and that's a new manual. Remember, not many shooters are shooting a 41 Magnum. Some of the older manuals will have a lot more data than current manuals.

ReloaderFred
February 1, 2013, 01:40 AM
If I'm working up a load for a bullet that isn't listed, or a weight that isn't listed, I generally go to the next heavier bullet and use that as my starting point. When I reach the desired velocity(within reason) and have no excessive pressure signs, such as overly expanded cases just above the web, then I've got my load for that bullet.

As pointed out, you need more than one source for data. I have the reloading manuals from all the major manufacturers going back a lot of years, the latest addendums that I picked up at the SHOT Show, and I subscribe to loaddata.com. I also just purchased the QuickLoad program for working up some of my own data for some of my less popular calibers (9x25 Dillon, 9x21, etc.).

A good reloader is resourceful.

Hope this helps.

Fred

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