AR Pistol, Proto-SBR Legality Question


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CmdrSlander
January 31, 2013, 04:38 AM
I am in the process of building my first SBR. When completed it will be a LaRue Stealth upper assy. with 12" barrel and 11" Gooseneck FF rail, and a DDLES 6.5" 9mm upper sharing a rollmark free Nodak Spud NDS16A2 lower (not a retro lower, this A2 is their modern offering).

I haven't even begun to put it together but I have sent the Form 1 off. In the time between getting the parts in and getting my tax stamp I want to assemble and use the firearm as an AR15 pistol. As I understand it this is entirely legal. My question is, do I have to use a pistol buffer tube or can I use a standard M4 Carbine spec buffer tube and simply refrain from attaching a stock to said tube until I get my tax stamp back?

My fear is that having a buffer tube capable of accepting a stock installed on a "pistol" and an unmounted stock anywhere nearby would get me sent up river for constructive possession. For a firearm to be legally considered a pistol does it have to be stripped of all provisions for mounting a stock?

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Flyincedar
January 31, 2013, 05:04 AM
You are correct, you do not want to have a carbine buffer tube and an unmounted stock. Play it safe and use a pistol buffer tube. Will be easy to resell it later if you don't want a pistol buffer tube anymore once your stamp comes

CmdrSlander
January 31, 2013, 05:13 AM
You are correct, you do not want to have a carbine buffer tube and an unmounted stock. Play it safe and use a pistol buffer tube. Will be easy to resell it later if you don't want a pistol buffer tube anymore once your stamp comes
I'm reading some other forum threads that indicate that the Banners of All Tactical and Fun Equipment (BATFE) say it is okay as long as you have...

a) another AR15 that can accept a collapsible stock (not considered constructive possession if you can demonstrate the part has another use)

b) or if you only have one AR and it is a pistol don't keep a collapsible stock around at all.

CmdrSlander
January 31, 2013, 05:43 AM
I just sent them a letter requesting a ruling on the issue... we'll see if they have anything to say about it...

MasterSergeantA
January 31, 2013, 02:04 PM
I'm reading some other forum threads that indicate that the Banners of All Tactical and Fun Equipment (BATFE) say it is okay as long as you have...

b) or if you only have one AR and it is a pistol don't keep a collapsible stock around at all.
Correct. Just leave the stock at a friend's house until the Form comes back.

Sam1911
January 31, 2013, 02:56 PM
You just need to have either some other arrangement of rifles that the stock can work on (like another AR-15 or two with 16" + barrels) or you need to not have that stock around.

The idea is that there must be in your possession some arrangement of guns and parts that would allow you the ability to show that they can be used for some lawful construction. If the only way you can put your parts together is as an unregistered SBR, that is indeed quite a bad thing.

Telekinesis
January 31, 2013, 03:52 PM
I've seen at least one ATF letter that says its ok as long as you don't have an extra stock laying around that will fit on the tube. AR15.com should have a good collection of ATF letters regarding AR pistols. FWIW I am also waiting on my form 1 to come back on a SBR and I have a standard carbine buffer tube on it (with no stock obviously) and I know others who have done that as well.

Brockak47
January 31, 2013, 04:18 PM
just have another use for the buttstock. Anyway, are you worried they are going to bust your doors down to see if you have a stock in the house with your Ar pistol?

justice06rr
February 1, 2013, 06:47 AM
You can use a standard AR carbine buffer tube. Just keep the stock(s) separately, maybe in a safe, or let a friend/neighbor hold on to it while you wait for your paperwork.

Frankly, ATF is most likely not going to bust down your door for constructive intent of an NFA item (unless you give them a valid reason). Plus, you already have proof of sending your Form to convert to a SBR.

parkerdude
August 25, 2013, 03:30 AM
You have probably found your answer by now. My solution was that I found a vendor selling a carbine buffer assembly, without a stock.

My thought was to buy a carbine buffer assembly and sell the butt-stock before I had all of the other parts, but this worked out well.

Arizona_Mike
August 26, 2013, 05:09 PM
Use an A2 buffer that will give a good "length of pull" and choice of barrel that makes the OAL over 26" and you can have a firearm, not a pistol (no issue with vertical front grip). Then throw on an Sig Sauer SB-15 arm brace which the ATF says is not a stock but actually works as a damn good stock.

Mike

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