1911. Practical for CCW?


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coondogger
January 31, 2013, 09:42 AM
Granted it has daunting stopping power, it's accurate, and reliable. But it's also heavy enough to nearly require wheels. It's sheer bulk makes it uncomfortable and as far as concealment, it blends like a bad wig. So why do so many people carry one. And, exactly, how? Is it even possible to use an IWB
holster?

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radiotom
January 31, 2013, 09:47 AM
I like the Glock 23, more rounds and pretty similar stopping power in a smaller package.

Steelin' Ducks
January 31, 2013, 10:01 AM
I carry one everyday. It rides in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II located at 4 o'clock.

akv3g4n
January 31, 2013, 10:04 AM
I'm 6 foot and 160lbs soaking wet. There is no way that I could conceal a 1911 on my frame. A Kel Tec pf9 is the size limit for me. I wish I could carry a larger handgun but have never been able to avoid having them print badly. Even my Glock 23.

Silent Bob
January 31, 2013, 10:11 AM
I carried a Colt 1991 Series 80 Government Model for two and a half years in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II holster at 4:00. Actually very comfortable, even wore it on my honeymoon. Only stopped because the pistol started developing several issues I could not figure out after working flawlessly for 1500 rounds. Turned out to be the last straw with me and 1911s.

Double Naught Spy
January 31, 2013, 10:11 AM
Well coondogger, given your assessment, then the 1911 isn't viable, for you.

Seanxlu
January 31, 2013, 10:15 AM
I'd take my 1911 with me in a fanny bag when hiking. Has anyone done that?

plodder
January 31, 2013, 10:16 AM
I carry a Kimber Ultra II in a Crossbreed Supertuck at "small of back" position. I'll concede that a cute little pocket pistol might be less obtrusive and lighter, but here in my state we are fortunate enough to have universal open carry as well as permitted CCW, so I do not worry about whether it might occasionally "shadow", "imprint" or even be openly observable.

Al Thompson
January 31, 2013, 10:17 AM
I find that the 1911 carries very well, but you have to have a good belt and quality holster. At least one lady friend carries a 1911 IWB each and every day.

:)

radiotom
January 31, 2013, 10:18 AM
I'm 6 foot and 160lbs soaking wet. There is no way that I could conceal a 1911 on my frame. A Kel Tec pf9 is the size limit for me. I wish I could carry a larger handgun but have never been able to avoid having them print badly. Even my Glock 23.
Have you tried IWB at 2 o'clock? Quit wearing tight clothes!

tarosean
January 31, 2013, 10:22 AM
If you don't mind me asking coon what do you carry now?

ku4hx
January 31, 2013, 10:22 AM
But it's also heavy enough to nearly require wheels. It's sheer bulk makes it uncomfortable and as far as concealment, it blends like a bad wig.
Seems to me your mind is made up and you need a smaller gun; there are plenty available. Many in 45ACP if that's your cartridge of choice.

My current most oft picked carry piece is a Glock 23; wife's is a Glock 19 but her's will soon be either a Ruger SR9c or and SR40c. Different strokes for different folks.

akv3g4n
January 31, 2013, 10:26 AM
Have you tried IWB at 2 o'clock? Quit wearing tight clothes!

Ha ha. I'm not wearing skinny jeans or anything. I carry in a belly band currently and it works for the smaller frame pistols just fine. IDK, it just doesn't work for me. More power to the people that can carry it. I'll stick to something smaller and more comfortable (for me).

ku4hx
January 31, 2013, 10:28 AM
I'd take my 1911 with me in a fanny bag when hiking. Has anyone done that?
My fanny pack gun is either a Glock 20 or Smith 1006.

The M
January 31, 2013, 10:32 AM
I carry a Kimber Ultra in a DeSantis OWB at 4 o'clock. It holds it tight to my body and is very concealable. I'm 5'10" and 170lbs and no one knows I'm carrying.

coondogger
January 31, 2013, 10:37 AM
Tarosean, I mostly carry a Walther PPK/S; IWB at 4 o'clock. But I often carry a SW model 49, cross draw at 10 o'clock.

Bobson
January 31, 2013, 10:54 AM
The Milt Sparks holsters seem extremely popular among those who carry a 1911 of some sort. I have no experience with MS holsters, but if I wanted to change my EDC from a G19 to a 1911, Milt Sparks would be my first stop.

OP, it sounds like your statements concerning concealing a 1911 may be based more on assumptions than experience. I'm not trying to attack you by saying that, but if you actually have tried carrying a 1911 and had results you were unhappy with, there are a number of things you could look at to find the problem/s.

The holster itself - goes without saying that some are much better for their intended purpose than others. Holsters are an area where one really does get what he pays for, for the most part.

Your attire - there are clothes designed specifically for concealed-carry, and while not exactly critical for most people, they will often help or improve the comfort and concealment experienced while packing.

Your physique - often overlooked. The number one concern as far as toolset goes (plenty of info available here on mindset, skillset, toolset, if you're not familiar with those concepts). Aside from that, it's also commonly stated that proper concealment of a firearm is much easier if an individual is physically fit. Something about a muffin top interfering with a handgun's protruding grip from one's waistline. :p

The belt - obviously a part of attire, but it needs special mention because this baby makes or breaks the whole package. A proper gun belt can support a full-size, steel 1911 better than a bowl holds soup. The shape of one's body will play into this (remember that muffin top), but the ability of a well-made belt really shouldn't be overlooked, even if a person is just one jelly donut short of a dozen.

Hootus
January 31, 2013, 11:52 AM
I'm a small man at 5'6" and carry a CCO size 1911. I use a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB holster on a strong gunbelt. With any shirt tail out, it conceals quite well and doesn't print at all. In the summer I'll wear loose Hawaiian style shirts and in the winter any sweater or flannel shirt works.

smalls
January 31, 2013, 01:28 PM
Bobson nailed it pretty good.

People carry 1911's for the same reason we enjoy shooting them - the ergonomics and the trigger. You should be carrying the gun you shoot best with. For a lot of people that's a 1911.

It's not the easiest gun to carry, but with a little bit of effort it's not very difficult.

Skribs
January 31, 2013, 01:35 PM
I don't like 1911s. I like plastic. I like double-stack. I like 9mm. I like having no manual safety. For me, a striker-fired pistol works best.

A lot of people argue that 1911s are easier to carry because they are slimmer than your average duty pistol. It's probably true. You can carry one IWB easier than you can carry a Glock. It's heavier, but thinner. It's doable, but if you don't like 1911s there's no need to get one over another weapon you like better.

If you want a lighter single-stack .45, look at the G36 or XDs. If you want a .45 that is lighter than a 1911, there are dozens of options available in double-stack duty pistols.

Takem406
January 31, 2013, 01:49 PM
Compared to my full size XDM 4.5 I've concealed for over a year, a 1911 is a smaller gun!

You can hide almost anything with a Crossbreed!

I haven't gotten a 1911 yet because I prefer striker fire guns. However it's definitely on the list! Probably won't be a carry gun for me because I prefer higher capacity. Though 1911's are a classy looking open carry piece in a leather holster!

In God and Glock we Trust

tarosean
January 31, 2013, 01:51 PM
Tarosean, I mostly carry a Walther PPK/S; IWB at 4 o'clock. But I often carry a SW model 49, cross draw at 10 o'clock.

Hey the same guns my 100# wife carries... Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Least with a 1911 your not going to accidently loose it on the movie theater floor. :)

Seriously though, use whatever is comfortable for you... Period..

I like full size guns. 1911's, BHP's and Beretta's... I don't notice the weight nor size. Plus there is the advantage that they are formidable weapons without bullets... :neener:

Old Dog
January 31, 2013, 02:24 PM
To be clear, I'm not calling out the OP as a troll.

But his contention is so absurd, I have to wonder why he felt compelled to start on thread on the topic.

Many of us here have been carrying full-size 1911s concealed for probably more years than the OP has been alive.

IWB? Easy -- Milt Sparks Summer Special leaps to mind as the first really good IWB for a 1911; the Versa Max II made IWB even more comfortable. Now come the hybrids, such as Crossbreed's and others ...

OWB? Most of us have known for years that a good pancake does the trick under almost any cover garment. Kramer's Belt Scabbard in horsehide is my standard; even the Galco Concealable ain't too bad for off-the-rack (not as long-lasting, but conceals great).

As Al Thompson and others note, a good belt and quality holster is all you need.

I'm almost insulted anyone could question the concept of carrying a 1911 concealed. It's skinny, and knowledgeable guncarriers know that it's not necessarily the barrel length, it's the width of the slide, frame and grip that affect concealment. Weight is not a factor when one commits to quality belt and holster.

vba
January 31, 2013, 02:37 PM
I carry one everyday. It rides in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II located at 4 o'clock.
Same here. Milt Sparks Summer and it carries real nice. I find it very confortable.

Sam1911
January 31, 2013, 02:39 PM
Hmmm...have to say this must come from someone not very used to carrying a concealed weapon. The 1911 is one of the easiest-carrying guns I've used. Slim and pulls in tight. Rides in an IWB holster like a dream.

Absolutely my preferred carry gun.

bigfatdave
January 31, 2013, 02:43 PM
I carry a CCO-sized all-steel 1911 pretty much every day

Good IWB leather&kydex holster
Real gunbelt
Reasonable clothing

It isn't even difficult, if you are willing to invest in quality carry gear. It won't work in a generic floppy nylon holster and the belt that was on sale at the department store.

Teachu2
January 31, 2013, 03:31 PM
I carried 1911s for three decades. Changed over last year to a G30 to reduce weight and increase capacity. Now rotate a G30, 36 and 26, but will always have a couple 1911s.

CPshooter
January 31, 2013, 04:05 PM
If you don't mind a manual thumb safety, it's one of the more practical choices out there IMHO. I personally won't carry one because I don't like safeties on my defensive weapons, but other than that they are super thin, powerful, and light enough if you go with an aluminum-framed model.

coondogger
January 31, 2013, 05:50 PM
By the way, I'm not in the market for a 1911. I already have one but it's always been a range gun because I couldn't figure out how to carry it
comfortably and with maximum concealment. But what I'm getting here is
a strong testimonial for the crossbreed style holsters that seem to spread the weight of the gun out more. Can anyone recommend a top notch belt? The one I've been using is a Filson single layer which seems to work well for my smaller guns.

bigfatdave
January 31, 2013, 05:55 PM
Beltman bullhide is what I use. Horsehide is nice, too.

If it will support that weight on a 48" waistline, it will be even better on your (assumed) smaller circumference.

Teachu2
January 31, 2013, 06:07 PM
http://www.ferraraleather.com/

I got two of their belts, and they are truly the best belts I've ever owned. He's a member here. He's active at http://www.bayoushooter.com/ and gives a discount to members (join for free).

Vern Humphrey
January 31, 2013, 06:10 PM
I've carried an M1911 for more than 50 years -- mostly in an IWB holster of my own design. The M1911 is flat and thinner than most other .45s and is easy to conceal. You just need a good belt and holster.

Bobson
January 31, 2013, 07:41 PM
I've heard nothing but the best about The Belt Man (http://www.thebeltman.net/). There's the link.

CPshooter
January 31, 2013, 07:44 PM
Can anyone recommend a top notch belt?www.ttgunleather.com and http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm

EBK
January 31, 2013, 08:59 PM
I carry my full size RIA 1911 A1 in a desantis Intruder IWB works fine hardly notice its there. I am kind of a stocky fellow though. 5'10" and bounce between 195 and 215 LBS depending on how active I am at the time.

orionengnr
January 31, 2013, 09:46 PM
But it's also heavy enough to nearly require wheels. It's sheer bulk makes it uncomfortable and as far as concealment, it blends like a bad wig.
I can't help but shake my head when people state their opinion as if it is a fact.

There are quite a few people on this forum that carry and prefer a 1911 and would laugh at each of your statements.

You may include me in that category.

Sam1911
January 31, 2013, 09:55 PM
Let's take it easy here. The OP sounds receptive and probably doesn't need to be berated into a more informed opinion. ;)

But what I'm getting here is a strong testimonial for the crossbreed style holsters that seem to spread the weight of the gun out more. Can anyone recommend a top notch belt? The one I've been using is a Filson single layer which seems to work well for my smaller guns.

tarosean
February 1, 2013, 01:22 AM
Can anyone recommend a top notch belt?

I use a Textan, nothing fancy just a solid chunk of leather.

http://www.textan.com/catalog/products.html

tarosean
February 1, 2013, 01:25 AM
he M1911 is flat and thinner than most other .45s

shoot its still thinner than most modern day 9mm's

Girodin
February 1, 2013, 03:56 AM
Can anyone recommend a top notch belt?

If you are not after a leather belt, I think VERY highly of the Ares Gear Ranger. http://www.aresgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae253/JFLOINDUSTRIES/1911/1d050ab8.jpg

bannockburn
February 1, 2013, 07:04 AM
Like others have posted, nothing like a good holster and a sturdy belt to make a big difference in carrying an M1911. If you're looking for a less weight in the gun maybe consider an alluminum alloy frame model like the Lightweight Goverment or Commander.

Lucky Derby
February 1, 2013, 07:33 AM
The Beltman is the best belt I have ever had.
For a full size gun, a 1911 is second only to the Browning High Power in ease of carry, IMHO. I regularly have one or the other on my hip, and often a 4" N frame revolver. (not at the same time) Now there is a beast to carry, but can still be done with the right holster and belt.

meanmrmustard
February 1, 2013, 07:49 AM
I love 1911s. They're fun to shoot, accurate, timeless.

In a ccw, I want a weapon that will go bang, cycle, and go bang again quickly, accurately, and reliably.

For this purpose, I will not carry a 1911. I will target shoot, but not carry. I'll stash one in the drawer, but my last line of defense will be a sloppy, lightweight, reliable weapon.

There are better choices.

farm23
February 1, 2013, 09:37 AM
meanmrumustard I agree with you the ccw should always go bang and one should carry what works for them. When I go to town I always carry a 1911 [over 45 years] and when around the farm or in the woods a 44. The 1911 always goes bang for me but I know some have doubts so they should carry what works for them.

tarosean
February 1, 2013, 09:42 AM
There are better choices.

That is your opinion, and your entitled to it. Some share your view and others do not..

johnmcl
February 1, 2013, 10:48 AM
There's been reasonable commentary here on the qualities of the 1911 as a CCW option. I think the thought on slimness, IWB, and a good belt bear re-reading.

One quality unaddressed is the size. I find that the controls are far apart on a 1911 which contribute to confidence of operation in times of crisis.

mljdeckard
February 1, 2013, 12:36 PM
Of course you can. I carry an all-steel, full-size 1911 year-round, including 100+ degree summers.

To everyone saying; 'can't', I hear; "I am unwilling to make the wardrobe and habit adjustments to accomodate carrying one." Now, you are under no obligation to. Carry what you want. I tell my students to carry what they shoot best. But don't try to say you CAN'T carry one when you are really just unwilling to make the equipment and wardrobe adjustments to do so. MANY people of all shapes and sizes carry them.

I use a few different options. In winter I use a Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster, a Blackhawk Serpa, and a Crossbreed Supertuck with a Bianchi 1-1/2" gun belt. In summer, I often use a fanny pack, especially when on long road trips.

I THINK, that the gun industry has a lot of people conditioned into thinking they can't be carried, because they want people to buy more guns. "Of course, everyone should own a classic 1911, but you can't CARRY one. For that you need a commander, or a different model gun."

allaroundhunter
February 1, 2013, 12:43 PM
My 1911 is one of the easiest guns to carry. A good belt makes the weight negligible.

It is slim and that is what makes it so easy for me to carry. Currently, I prefer to keep a FS gun on me so my rotation is between an M&P9, Glock 19, and Colt Commander in .38 Auto... The Colt is my favorite to carry because it is just much more comfortable.


And I will add - This 1911 has gone at least 3,000 rounds (that I know of) without a malfunction... so I trust it.

Evil One
February 1, 2013, 12:45 PM
I carry a Delta Elite many times.
Adams Holsters Texas rig IWB and gun belt.
Is it EASIER to carry a smaller and lighter gun? Of course it is.
Finding on what I am doing and where I am going I carry anything from a G20 to a P3AT.
If I didn't work in non permissive environments, I would live with a bug hunk of iron on my hip.


Jim

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

huntershooter
February 1, 2013, 01:15 PM
In answer to your question "why do so many people carry one..."; because there is no other auto loader that is easier to shoot-rapidly and accurately.
Period.
As to how do you carry one comfortably??
Get a good belt and holster.

Simmy952
February 1, 2013, 01:15 PM
My EDC is a Sig 1911 ultra. I compared it to the P238 that I was using. With a good belt and a good iwb holster from Tommy Theis, I can conceal the 1911 just as good as the P238. Would rather have the .45 than a .380. A good 1911 is a good CCW weapon. Just train with what you have so that you are familiar with it.

BlindJustice
February 1, 2013, 02:04 PM
I carry a full size 1911 w/carry rig of
Milt Sparks #Axiom (OWB) Holster,
Milt Sparks 1 1/2" belt and an MS IWB
single mag holder

S&W offers a SW1911 with the Scandium
frame in a full size They also have the
Commander sized models with the Scandium
frame and the new E series has the round butt

Also there are the CCO models offered by
various manufacturers 4.25" Bbl./slide on
an Officer's size frame.

R-

Sam1911
February 1, 2013, 03:12 PM
In answer to your question "why do so many people carry one..."; because there is no other auto loader that is easier to shoot-rapidly and accurately.
Period.Awwww, now...I love a 1911 a lot. But let's not get crazy with the hyperbole. :)

I've seen enough match scores to know that there's nothing that guarantees any person will shoot their best with a 1911, or that any shooter's choice of a 1911 guarantees them any advantage over another shooter with some other gun.

If you change the word "Period" to the phrase, "... for me, as far as I know," you'll be back in truthville.

xXxplosive
February 1, 2013, 03:16 PM
Love my 1911's......but sometimes it's just hard to beat the 10 rounds of .45acp in my 30sf...

meanmrmustard
February 1, 2013, 06:43 PM
That is your opinion, and your entitled to it. Some share your view and others do not..
The rarity of a 1911 running like a top 100% of the time is equally as such for many of today's newer designs failing occasionally enough to not be ccw worthy.

That's not opinion, that's my observation. The opinion is that I don't carry one because I don't find them to be worthy of my trust...or my life.

I must add, as I should have before, I'm not commenting about custom and/or limited number crafted 1911s from reputable manufacturers, like Wilson. Today's 1911s are tolerance stacked, mass produced guns. Great for the range, but not so great at life saving (inserted opinion). It goes bang here and there for several years? Great.

Now do a course with one, put many rounds down range in combat scenarios, and watch them fail. FTEs, FTFs, stove pipes...they're malfunctions nonetheless.

Alizard
February 1, 2013, 07:02 PM
Granted it has daunting stopping power, it's accurate, and reliable. But it's also heavy enough to nearly require wheels. It's sheer bulk makes it uncomfortable and as far as concealment, it blends like a bad wig. So why do so many people carry one. And, exactly, how? Is it even possible to use an IWB
holster?

They asked a Texas ranger why he carried a .45 and he said:

"Because nobody makes a .46"

I would not carry one. The safety is too easy to knock off and then you have a cocked gun pointed at your privates. If you really want a SA carry gun, I'd carry a .40 HI-Power. You get five extra rounds in the mag and a safety that definitely doesn't release without effort. Muzzle energy of .40 defense rounds is almost identical to .45.

For the record, I am not sure I would ever have an autoloader for defense. I have spent too many hours smithing them, tuning them, and clearing jams. My defense gun is an 8-shot .357 revo.

Sam1911
February 1, 2013, 07:04 PM
Meh. Everything fails eventually/sometimes. Even revolvers and Glocks. Put enough rounds downrange and you'll see it happen with every gun. 1911s have a bad rap but any individual gun you run enough to trust is a worthy carry gun.

Honestly, I've seen more M&Ps fail recently than I've seen 1911s fail. Doesn't mean either one is a bad platform on the whole.

meanmrmustard
February 1, 2013, 07:18 PM
Meh. Everything fails eventually/sometimes. Even revolvers and Glocks. Put enough rounds downrange and you'll see it happen with every gun. 1911s have a bad rap but any individual gun you run enough to trust is a worthy carry gun.

Honestly, I've seen more M&Ps fail recently than I've seen 1911s fail. Doesn't mean either one is a bad platform on the whole.
I mean no disrespect, as I said, this is just my observation.

Yes, all man made objects will inevitably fail. I've just seen 1911s do it with more frequency than more modern designs. Even, yes, the M&P and Glocks.

WoodchuckAssassin
February 1, 2013, 07:42 PM
Personally, I carry one because It's really my only option right now. Well, that or my S&W 686 :D

It is a little big, but not so uncomfortable that I mind carrying it. When I practice drawing it from a CC holster, it goes to my hand like a magnet.

Plus I love a .45. When I get something smaller, it will still be on a 1911 frame.

tarosean
February 2, 2013, 12:38 AM
If you really want a SA carry gun, I'd carry a .40 HI-Power. You get five extra rounds in the mag and a safety that definitely doesn't release without effort.

except 40's only came from the factory with 10rd mags.

Girodin
February 2, 2013, 02:55 AM
The rarity of a 1911 running like a top 100% of the time is equally as such for many of today's newer designs failing occasionally enough to not be ccw worthy.

I think it really isn't very useful to talk about "the 1911" as if they all are a monolithic group with respect to reliability. The same is true for ARs and for the same reason. There are lots of manufactures who produce everything from really well made guns to junk.

I think it is fair to say that as a class striker fired polymer guns like Glocks and M&Ps are more reliable than all 1911s as a class. When we talk about individual guns the assement may be different.

It makes me think of Travis Haley's comments on the Magpul Dynamics handgun DVD. He basically says something to the effect that if there were two guns on a table, a glock/M&P/etc and a 1911 and he had to pick one up and go fight with it, he would for sure grab the former. Now if it was his 1911 he would grab that. He also states they see less issues with the poly striker fired guns than others.

Larry Vickers also has some good thoughts on the matter. Basically a 1911 isn't for everyone and the types of people who it is for know it because they know and understand the gun.

I wouldn't say a 1911 per se cannot be a very reliable gun. I wouldn't fault someone for carrying something else, most of the time I do. However, there are plenty of 1911s I would carry and there are some pretty serious gun guys that take them into much more serious and dangerous situations than what most of us face in our day to day routines.

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 07:02 AM
I think it really isn't very useful to talk about "the 1911" as if they all are a monolithic group with respect to reliability. The same is true for ARs and for the same reason. There are lots of manufactures who produce everything from really well made guns to junk.

I think it is fair to say that as a class striker fired polymer guns like Glocks and M&Ps are more reliable than all 1911s as a class. When we talk about individual guns the assement may be different.

It makes me think of Travis Haley's comments on the Magpul Dynamics handgun DVD. He basically says something to the effect that if there were two guns on a table, a glock/M&P/etc and a 1911 and he had to pick one up and go fight with it, he would for sure grab the former. Now if it was his 1911 he would grab that. He also states they see less issues with the poly striker fired guns than others.

Larry Vickers also has some good thoughts on the matter. Basically a 1911 isn't for everyone and the types of people who it is for know it because they know and understand the gun.

I wouldn't say a 1911 per se cannot be a very reliable gun. I wouldn't fault someone for carrying something else, most of the time I do. However, there are plenty of 1911s I would carry and there are some pretty serious gun guys that take them into much more serious and dangerous situations than what most of us face in our day to day routines.
You misunderstand. That's why I also brought up crafted, not mass produced, 1911s. There IS a difference. If I'm carrying a gun that is based on a 100 year old design, I want quality craftsmanship, not assembly line speed built 1911.

Like Glocks, I think too much ego is invested in the 1911. I own (sadly) only one at the moment. Others I've had weren't great, the one I have is fairly new, so I can't comment on its record.

I watch Larry. He has very good info. But, he contradicts himself there. If one must "understand" the gun under stress, thinking more about the gun than the fight, your family is going to have to sell that 1911 to help pay for your funeral.

I agree, there are many who carry them. I'm not one, and decidedly won't probably ever. I stand by my statement, and I'll leave it alone afterwards so as not to seem outright bashing, but there's better choices.

bigfatdave
February 2, 2013, 09:51 AM
I would not carry one. The safety is too easy to knock off and then you have a cocked gun pointed at your privates.this is just silly
-you can adjust the tension on the safety in a number of ways
-the gun has a grip safety anyway
-the hammer is not prone to falling without a trigger pull and the GS deactivated
-don't you use a holster?

bigfatdave
February 2, 2013, 09:55 AM
You misunderstand. That's why I also brought up crafted, not mass produced, 1911s. There IS a difference.
Right, that's why my P.I.-made sub-$700 compact Armscor guns run reliably with almost any ammo I stuff in them. They must be "high-end custom guns"

Well, one was made to my specifications out of the spare-parts bin at ArmscorUSA in Nevada, I guess that one is "custom", in that it was made from a demo officer frame and a 4" upper that was laying around.

Just because you saw a lemon once doesn't make an entire design unreliable,

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 04:06 PM
Right, that's why my P.I.-made sub-$700 compact Armscor guns run reliably with almost any ammo I stuff in them. They must be "high-end custom guns"

Well, one was made to my specifications out of the spare-parts bin at ArmscorUSA in Nevada, I guess that one is "custom", in that it was made from a demo officer frame and a 4" upper that was laying around.

Just because you saw a lemon once doesn't make an entire design unreliable,
As I said, too much ego invested. No sarcasm.

Girodin
February 2, 2013, 06:23 PM
I watch Larry. He has very good info. But, he contradicts himself there.

Or perhaps you misunderstand his point. I've not seen or read everything Mr. Vickers has said, there is quite a lot of it. Nor have I been in every single class he teaches I've never understood his instruction concerning the 1911 to include anything that would require thinking more about the gun than the fight. I'm not sure what specific comments you are interpreting to mean that or what you've seen/heard in one of his classes that you take to mean that.

but there's better choices.

Well before you can ever say better or worse you have to outline criteria. To say better without first defining the measure of better or parameters is to simply make an empty, and more or less worthless statement.

Even though I don't carry a 1911 most of the time, I find it absurd to suggest that there are not 1911s that are reliable and durable enough for concealed carry. Not all of that class is per se real high end custom stuff either. As stated there are some pretty serious shooters, guys that put 10s of thousands of rounds a year down range, and see hundred if not thousands of shooters put even more down range, who would agree other guns have few problems as a class than "1911s." However they would probably laugh at the proposition that no 1911 is up to being carried for very serious use let alone as a civilian CCW gun or that in every single case there is some gun that is per se "better."

There are actually some really good pieces and discussion out there by knowledgeable folks. Discussion that goes much above simply stating that A is better than B, or assuming that folks that pick this or that do so based on ego, status, ignorance, etc.

I wouldn't try to push everyone, or necessarily anyone to a 1911. However, I'd be careful what I said about their suitability for carry or what those who used them are basing their choices on. You are going to run up against some shooters that I promise you are VASTLY more experienced than you are, have shot many times as many rounds through their guns, have spent many more hours training than you, have been exposed to a much larger sample size of guns under adverse conditions, and likely have more experience in a gun fight than. You look silly making absolute statements calling out the equipment chosen by such shooters IMHO and I'd try to avoid doing so.

For example, how many training courses have you run your go to gun through? How many rounds have you put through it in a year? How many classes do you imagine Chris Costa (just to pick a random guy who I know at least at times uses a 1911) has used his Night Hawk in? How many rounds do you think it has seen. How many guns do you see run really hard in a year? How many do you think he sees run? Are you going to tell him his 1911 is ill advised or he shouldn't rely on it?

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 06:49 PM
As stated, again, I won't carry one. Seen too many, owned too many, that were unreliable.

Chris Costa runs a Night Hawk? You don't say...that makes sense. So, knowing that, why would I tell him his Night Hawk is ill advised?

Question for you: Would I try to talk Costa out of his Night Hawk, a 1911 that I would consider "crafted", not mass produced under the specification I DID give previously, for say a Ruger 1911? Just an example; that particular model is one I've only experienced to have a mediocre success rate in reliability. That isn't hearsay, that's my personal observation with several hundred rounds through each of 3 guns. Two of which choke a bit with both fmj and HPs. We are talking 33.3%... over three pistols of same make. One that some are very convinced is the cats meow. Just an example.

Being that I gave an example of what I wouldn't carry, and what Costa MIGHT, I think that Costa has the right idea. Since he shoots more than us, I imagine he's probably (not decidedly) opinionated as to whether a "crafted" gun trumps a mass produced 1911. I only speculate, but as for me, I'd rather have the NH or Wilson than a Ruger or RIA or even S&W; not because of elitism (I can't afford crafted guns like those at the moment) but because of tolerance stacking.

Edit to add: I reread my posts and let me respicify: If I could get a Wilson or a Nighthawk, I'd probably feel better about carrying one. I do not regard the whole design as uncarryable, so I apologize if I seem bashing. I'm not, just opinionated.

JLe˛dhas
February 2, 2013, 07:01 PM
I carried my 1911 for a couple of years when I first started CCW. I have now switched over to a G30.

Girodin
February 2, 2013, 08:57 PM
The thing about a night hawk or the like is you really up the odds of it being put together right. That doesn't mean no there are. You can have tolerance staking or you can have them run like a top. I have for example a cheap norinco that has who knows how many rounds through it. I'd trust that gun more than a nib (unproven)night hawk and honestly as much as my 3-4k 1911. Now if I were going to grab either an unknown norc or an unknown nighthawk I'd grab the latter. I'd totally concur that all 1911s are not equal and some are not guns I'd carry. I more took exception with comments I read to suggest the design isn't viable. If it weren't it wouldn't still be so popular. I think we probably agree that most folks would be better served and get a better value with another design. But that is a different question that whether it is practical to carry any 1911.

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 09:03 PM
The thing about a night hawk or the like is you really up the odds of it being put together right. That doesn't mean no there are. You can have tolerance staking or you can have them run like a top. I have for example a cheap norinco that has who knows how many rounds through it. I'd trust that gun more than a nib (unproven)night hawk and honestly as much as my 3-4k 1911. Now if I were going to grab either an unknown norc or an unknown nighthawk I'd grab the latter. I'd totally concur that all 1911s are not equal and some are not guns I'd carry. I more took exception with comments I read to suggest the design isn't viable. If it weren't it wouldn't still be so popular. I think we probably agree that most folks would be better served and get a better value with another design. But that is a different question that whether it is practical to carry any 1911.
And I apologize for that. I never meant that the platform wasn't viable.

There are a FEW I'd carry. Night Hawk would be one for sure. So, I guess maybe I would carry a 1911. It just depends on whom.

Is it practical to carry a 1911? Depends.

Not a Ruger, Smith, RIA, Para, or Kimber.

coondogger
February 2, 2013, 09:47 PM
Does anyone have any experience with the Theis holster? How does it compare to the Crossbreed or Galco King Tuk. These are the three that I am now considering.

docnyt
February 2, 2013, 11:04 PM
Does anyone have any experience with the Theis holster? How does it compare to the Crossbreed or Galco King Tuk. These are the three that I am now considering.

Theis is very similar to Crossbreed Supertuck. I've only work King Tuk a few times so I can't comment on long term comfort. They're all well made holsters.

Girodin
February 2, 2013, 11:04 PM
And I apologize for that. I never meant that the platform wasn't viable.

Some people, like me, are slow readers and sometime miss the true meaning of what someone is writing.

I'd say that if a particular Ruger, Smith, RIA, etc worked well it would be no less viable than a Nighthawk. High end 1911s are not magic. And not even all high end guns are built to maximize reliability or to be particularly suitable as a carry gun. I'd add that often much of what you are paying for over a certain point has very little to do with reliability. Now if you pulled 1000 of each off the line how many would work well out of the box? That may be a different issue. So would a discussion of how they would hold up to 10K rounds of shooting.

Ankeny
February 3, 2013, 12:15 AM
In a ccw, I want a weapon that will go bang, cycle, and go bang again quickly, accurately, and reliably.

That's why I am currently carrying my V-Bob. The pistol has proven to be as accurate (well almost) and as reliable (for sure) as the high end 1911's that I have had, including customs from Matt McLearn, Benny Hill, and Bob Londrigan. The DW may not have the fit and finish of a Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, or Ed Brown, but my particular specimen is darn accurate and nuts reliable.

As far as shooting quickly and accurately, I seem to do a bit better than most of the shooters that I encounter on the square range. What more could a person ask for? Capacity maybe? I quess...in that case I could opt for a S_I or a Wilson Spec Ops (my next purchase).

As far as carry, mine rides in a Mitch Rosen holster OWB held up by either a 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 wide five stitch belt depending on the size of my belt loops.

FWIW, I have spent a lot of time behind a Glock, CZ, and a couple of Smiths. They are all great guns. I just prefer the 1911.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 12:48 AM
Some people, like me, are slow readers and sometime miss the true meaning of what someone is writing.

I'd say that if a particular Ruger, Smith, RIA, etc worked well it would be no less viable than a Nighthawk. High end 1911s are not magic. And not even all high end guns are built to maximize reliability or to be particularly suitable as a carry gun. I'd add that often much of what you are paying for over a certain point has very little to do with reliability. Now if you pulled 1000 of each off the line how many would work well out of the box? That may be a different issue. So would a discussion of how they would hold up to 10K rounds of shooting.
I give examples I know, which cover a decent spectrum. I will not carry them.

I've had Sigmas that were 100%, and have range buddies that would carry a wooden spoon over it. Not me. If a gun is reliable, to me, then its riding in my holster or truck. It's a $300 gun, but I'd carry it, and over the very few listed 1911s I've shot above. You, nor I, can fire 1000 each of said brands making that point moot: the lightning strike chances of a reliable 1911 dropped in mud, or sopped in rain, or beat up from hitting the pavement for ANY reason is exemplified by a quality made gun. I work in a machine shop, its my living, and the tolerance stacking of mass made guns breeds failure. I'm not willing to be that 1 in a 1000 that dies due to a 1911 malfunction. I'll carry a G21.

Edit to Add: Would you carry a P11 or a G26, if you could only afford one?

mljdeckard
February 3, 2013, 12:54 AM
The only Nighthawk I ever shot jammed.

asia331
February 3, 2013, 12:54 AM
I've never understood why so many folks think the 1911 is too large for CC. Honestly I find my 1911's to be the most easily concealed full size sidearms in my inventory riding flat and tight against my hip. Combined with quality leather (holster & belt), weight isn't even close to being an issue for me and I'm 5' 9" and 165lbs.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 12:58 AM
The only Nighthawk I ever shot jammed.
Don't tell Chris Costa that.

Girodin
February 3, 2013, 01:05 AM
I give examples I know, which cover a decent spectrum. I will not carry them.

The thing to remember is that if one's experience with any given make and model is only one or two guns then it is actually statistically pretty meaningless. Even if one had a sample of five or even ten of the same make and model it would be a pretty meaningless sample size. You'd need to have hundreds of randomly selected guns, 250 would be a good start and 400 or so would be much better. I'm going to guess you've not, handled let alone used extensively, hundreds of any given make, let alone model. Am I wrong? I know I haven't. This is a big part of why I'm most concerned with the actual gun in hand

Don't get me wrong I've seen particular guns that have really rattled my confidence in a model or maker, but its important to keep perspective. The same can be said to those that tout a model based on the relatively minute sample sizes most of us see. This is why I put a little more weight in the opinions of those that get to see hundreds and hundreds of guns run hard in substantially similar circumstances.

Girodin
February 3, 2013, 01:13 AM
The only Nighthawk I ever shot jammed.

Even that doesn't mean anything unless you deduced the cause. Was it a mag issue, an ammo issue, an operator issue or a gun issue. The first couple are the most common causes. If a gun issue what type of failure was it and what was the cause? Was it the result of a worn spring (all guns will fail if the recoil spring is spent), improper maintenance, say very high round count with no lube or the like. Even if it was a gun issue, and not one that was a result of easily avoided neglect , see the above comments about sample size.

I know your Costa comment was tongue in cheek, but it goes back to the point of the gun one has is what matters. I'm sure Costa isn't going to forsake his well prove Nighthawk because someone somewhere experienced a failure with a gun from the same maker (assuming of course it was a gun issue) any more than he is going to dump his M&P from reports in this thread of an M&P failing, or any more than you'd dump your carry gun if someone told you they had used one (and probably one time) and it jammed. Perspective.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 01:14 AM
The thing to remember is that if one's experience with any given make and model is only one or two guns then it is actually statistically pretty meaningless. Even if one had a sample of five or even ten of the same make and model it would be a pretty meaningless sample size. You'd need to have hundreds of randomly selected guns, 250 would be a good start and 400 or so would be much better. I'm going to guess you've not, handled let alone used extensively, hundreds of any given make, let alone model. Am I wrong? I know I haven't. This is a big part of why I'm most concerned with the actual gun in hand

Don't get me wrong I've seen particular guns that have really rattled my confidence in a model or maker, but its important to keep perspective. The same can be said to those that tout a model based on the relatively minute sample sizes most of us see. This is why I put a little more weight in the opinions of those that get to see hundreds and hundreds of guns run hard in substantially similar circumstances.
I'm going by platform, and those guns that I've experienced within the means of "mass produced".

Once again, no.

Edit to Add: it isn't all about cost, its about who, what, and how that goes into making a 100 year old design worth carrying.

12Bravo20
February 3, 2013, 01:20 AM
I have 2 Rock Island pistols, a full size Tactical and a compact model. Both are reliable for me to carry. I am 5'10", 145 lbs and don't have any problem concealing either one. I haven't had any problems out of either one. As far as price, just because a pistol costs $1500-$2000 doesn't make it any better than a $500 pistol.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 01:23 AM
I have 2 Rock Island pistols, a full size Tactical and a compact model. Both are reliable for me to carry. I am 5'10", 145 lbs and don't have any problem concealing either one. I haven't had any problems out of either one. As far as price, just because a pistol costs $1500-$2000 doesn't make it any better than a $500 pistol.
If a pistol costs several hundred more for a reputable made gun vs a mass produced, poorly or rarely QCd gun, it isn't better?

Sometimes it is what you're paying for that designates what you get. I'm not seeing many $2000 RIAs, not that they aren't good. But find me one in the league of quality of a Wilson that's only $500. Because I'll take it!

DMK
February 3, 2013, 01:26 AM
If I'm not carrying my J-frame revolver, this is what I carry.

Colt CCO. It's a Commander slide (4"barrel) on an alloy "Officer" frame (6 or 7 round mags). I put some thin Alumagrips on it to slim it up even more. It's light weight, has great sights, easy to shoot, reliable and chambered in 45ACP. The best gun for for IWB carry IMO. It's a shame they don't make more 1911s in this size. AFAIK, only Kimber, Colt and Sig made them in this form factor.

I used to carry it in a Milt Sparks Summer Special, but for the last couple years I've been using a Kholster Full Moon. Much more comfortable.

http://myplace.frontier.com/~dmk0210/myarms/CCO2.jpg

http://myplace.frontier.com/~dmk0210/myarms/Colt-CCO.jpg

Fishslayer
February 3, 2013, 01:31 AM
Absolutely my preferred carry gun.

Would have never guessed given your screen name. :D

mljdeckard
February 3, 2013, 01:35 AM
The only reason I mentioned the Nighthawk jamming was to point out that the law of diminishing returns applies to 1911s in particular. Everything fails sooner or later.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 01:37 AM
The only reason I mentioned the Nighthawk jamming was to point out that the law of diminishing returns applies to 1911s in particular. Everything fails sooner or later.
But, some vastly less than others. I'll take those, thank you.

12Bravo20
February 3, 2013, 01:45 AM
Fit and finish is better on more expensive guns, but that doesn't mean that they won't have problems either. You get good and bad from all manufacturers regardless of price. If I had my choice, I'd have the old 'rattle battle' I carried during Desert Storm- 100% reliable even in sand.

I can give 1 example of an expensive 1911 being a lemon. I went shooting with a buddy, me with my Rock and him with his Wilson. His pistol definitely had better fit and finish but did not shoot any better and he had a lot of failure to eject/stovepipe problems. My Rock didn't have 1 single hiccup.

No I'm not saying that a $500 gun has near the fit/finish as a more expensive gun, but price does not always mean reliability

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 02:08 AM
Fit and finish is better on more expensive guns, but that doesn't mean that they won't have problems either. You get good and bad from all manufacturers regardless of price. If I had my choice, I'd have the old 'rattle battle' I carried during Desert Storm- 100% reliable even in sand.

I can give 1 example of an expensive 1911 being a lemon. I went shooting with a buddy, me with my Rock and him with his Wilson. His pistol definitely had better fit and finish but did not shoot any better and he had a lot of failure to eject/stovepipe problems. My Rock didn't have 1 single hiccup.

No I'm not saying that a $500 gun has near the fit/finish as a more expensive gun, but price does not always mean reliability
And I've used cheap Turkish 1911s that were more trustworthy than Rocks. Because your one Rock suits you doesn't sell me or erase my experience.

I'd carry neither, end of my story.

Zardaia
February 3, 2013, 02:20 AM
Carried a 5" 1911 no problem IWB for about two years till I went to a glock 21. 1911 shoots better, but I've come to the conclusion that even in .45 more rounds is better and the glock shoots plenty good enough.

Girodin
February 3, 2013, 02:24 AM
But, some vastly less than others. I'll take those, thank you.

What exactly are you basing this on? I'm not saying it is or is not the case. However, what is your bases, specifics please, for this assertion? You singular experience with a RIA is no more or less meaningful than someone else's or someone's with any other model.

Its not very helpful to just assert something fails vastly more often with out backing that assertion up with anything.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 02:57 AM
What exactly are you basing this on? I'm not saying it is or is not the case. However, what is your bases, specifics please, for this assertion? You singular experience with a RIA is no more or less meaningful than someone else's or someone's with any other model.

Its not very helpful to just assert something fails vastly more often with out backing that assertion up with anything.
See post 81 and 89. I was asked my opinion, same as you.

Give me your figures in PM, notes or otherwise, as to the amount of failure of mass produced vs crafted 1911s.

My basis is that even what some would consider good 1911s fail, more so than those made by a knowledgable pistol smith. Call it what you will. I've stated that too much ego is put into the 1911, I stand by that. I do t want to bash, but i refuse to carry it. I'll shoot them, enjoy them, but if I'm going to the supermarket late at night...I'm grabbing the G21, CZ75, Makarov, or even the SR22 ive never had a hiccup with.

Our mileage always varies.

Girodin
February 3, 2013, 04:46 AM
My notes? I have no clue. I don't have enough experience with them. I own a few 1911s however that's not enough to draw any reasonable conclusions. I can add to that those of some friends and what I've seen in some classes. In sum, I don't have enough exposure to enough guns to draw any meaningful conclusions. The truth is neither do you. So you can go on all you like about mass produced this and high end that but in reality you don't have enough experience with enough guns to be able to make the conclusions you've been positing here do you? You are making sweeping generalizations and when asked what they are based on you have vaguely referred to anecdotal experiences witha couple guns and them simply offered more conclusions. Again carry what you want, but if you are going to make such sweeping and comclusory statements don't be shocked when one wants you to back them up with more than just the fact that you believe them. Further, you've been pretty quick to be dismissive of other people's anecdotal experiences but put a lot of stock in your own. When it comes to there being too much ego involved why is that true for those folks and not you? Or are you just repeating lines from Yeager YouTube videos?

My basis is that even what some would consider good 1911s fail, more so than those made by a knowledgable pistol smith

Ummm that is not a basis. That is a conclusion. I am asking for the basis of that conclusion. A basis would be what guns you've owned, what ones you used and what that use was, how many rounds you've shot through various 1911s and other guns, what you've seen at completions, classes or the range. A basis could even just be what you've read or been told. Just stating another conclusion as if it were a fact, however, is not a basis. Rather, it seems to suggest you have no real basis for your opinions and assertions.

I think we have crossed into the land of obsurdity in saying or at least implying sr22 is something to carry and no 1911 short of a custom or semi custom is. You are entitled to chose a sr 22 and believe it is better than any 1911 from Dan Wesson, any trp, any sig, etc. just don't expect people to take you too seriously.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 09:05 AM
I do not need to be taken seriously, not a requisite for me when I choose a carry pistol.

Yeager? That guy who popped of at the mouth and hurts our cause? I think not.

I've not been dismissive, I just don't want to bash. It seems every time I type on this thread that I am, which was never my intention.

I've had several Rugers fail, had friends with the R1 of which one of two was problematic. Seen at least a half dozen RIAs at the range at one time. Most hiccuped. My good friend and work associate curses the day he bought his Sig. I've watched two Sigs fail to feed hollow points, sometimes at all. They're not cheap, but of two I've shot, neither met MY standard. I don't get the option of testing several hundred of each make. But the ones I know well have had over 1000 rounds through them, and that's low balling.

I guess, for your sake, I'll have to begin keeping notes of exact rounds downrange. But, it'd be hard since I don't keep guns that refuse to be a problem. For those that think I'm an elitist or hate 1911's, I have a RIA in .38 Super in layaway as a range toy.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 09:24 AM
My notes? I have no clue. I don't have enough experience with them. And I've owned enough to have a qualm about carrying one.

[/QUOTE]Ummm that is not a basis. That is a conclusion.[/QUITE]
No, it's an opinion. One that is mine. Obviously there's several people on here that feel THEIR gun works well, I've not had this experience. "All 1911s suck" is not a fact which I tout. "Some suck, and I'd carry really no 1911" is closer to my words.
[/QUOTE]I think we have crossed into the land of obsurdity in saying or at least implying sr22 is something to carry and no 1911 short of a custom or semi custom is.[/QUOTE] If it runs better for me than a 1911, what's obsurd about it? Near perfect performance with a myriad of ammo types and brands, exceptional accuracy, fits in m center console; loaded with Stingers, I don't feel undergunned. I at least have faith in it, due to a knowledge of the performance of my gun. Same with my others: I don't keep crappy guns, inaccurate or prone to problems. My SR22, while not an ideal caliber choice, is trustworthy.

Edit to Add: 1500 through my G32, still no failures. Twice that in the SR with optimal performance. No failures in my Canik or Witnesses yet at nearing the 500 round mark. Just to name a few that've survived with me and get to stay.

bigfatdave
February 3, 2013, 09:33 AM
I've had several Rugers fail, had friends with the R1 of which one of two was problematic. Seen at least a half dozen RIAs at the range at one time. Most hiccuped.What magazines?
What ammo?
What maintenance schedule?
Were they bubba-gunsmithed with a dremel to "polish 'er up reel good"?

Are you really going to trust something based on the rollmark on the side or the initial design, rather than doing your own reliability testing?

12Bravo20
February 3, 2013, 10:28 AM
To the original OP, I have absolutely no problems carrying a 1911 as EDC.

Everyone's opinion on what brand/type pistol is better is like asking opinions on automobiles. That being said, some love carrying a single action semi-auto while others prefer double action, while others prefer revolvers. No right or wrong answer. Like anything a cheaper version will get the job done but a more expensive one will be more refined. There is no guarantee that what ever you buy regardless of price will not be a lemon.

I can only speak from my own experience. I carry a 1911 and also small polymer compacts. I'm happy with either as long as they are reliable. When I first got to Saudi in 90 I was issued a pistol along with my M60. I chose to carry a 1911 because at that time the M9 pistols were having trouble functioning in the sand where as the 1911 didn't.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 11:16 AM
What magazines?
What ammo?
What maintenance schedule?
Were they bubba-gunsmithed with a dremel to "polish 'er up reel good"?

Are you really going to trust something based on the rollmark on the side or the initial design, rather than doing your own reliability testing?

Magazines were factory.
I clean religiously, oil lightly, as do those I shoot with. We are anal.
No bubba jobs done. If its something that makes me nervous to do, I'll find someone reputable who isn't nervous.

I don't buy based on brand.

My favorite and best shooting guns are CZ clones.;)

bigfatdave
February 3, 2013, 12:13 PM
Many factory mags are junk, some are great - most malfunctions are mag-related, so swapping magazines might have cured the "problems" you saw, for instance Armscor guns come with ACT-mags, which are OK range-toy magazines, but not suited to social work the way Wilson (expensive) or MetalForm (not so expensive, but you generally give up a round) are.

You missed the ammo question (ronnie reloader's special rounds? cheap steelcase? light target loads? hardcast lead wadcutters? {mine don't mind the semiwadcutters, even - I run them for bowling pin matches} blazer? federal?)

Light oil is nice, but my 1911s like grease on the rails and various other points, it works better for carry because it doesn't dribble away from where I want it

The more you post on the subject, the less troubleshooting I see you doing and the more knee-jerk reaction is implied. Skipping the entore troubleshooting phase and declaring an entire class of (proven design) guns unreliable is like declaring sedans unreliable because you saw a few on the side of the road.

WCraven
February 3, 2013, 01:21 PM
I love my full size RIA G.I. as the gun has ran flawless and shoots perfect with fixed sights, if i had to do one thing to it i would have a trigger job done and then it would be perfect. the only thing i hate about a Glock is it's like carring a 2x4 as it's so darn wide.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 01:28 PM
Many factory mags are junk, some are great - most malfunctions are mag-related, so swapping magazines might have cured the "problems" you saw, for instance Armscor guns come with ACT-mags, which are OK range-toy magazines, but not suited to social work the way Wilson (expensive) or MetalForm (not so expensive, but you generally give up a round) are.

You missed the ammo question (ronnie reloader's special rounds? cheap steelcase? light target loads? hardcast lead wadcutters? {mine don't mind the semiwadcutters, even - I run them for bowling pin matches} blazer? federal?)

Light oil is nice, but my 1911s like grease on the rails and various other points, it works better for carry because it doesn't dribble away from where I want it

The more you post on the subject, the less troubleshooting I see you doing and the more knee-jerk reaction is implied. Skipping the entore troubleshooting phase and declaring an entire class of (proven design) guns unreliable is like declaring sedans unreliable because you saw a few on the side of the road.
You don't see 100 year old cars on the side of the road, either. Unless they're going to be shown off, like a 1911 at the range.

I don't like to grease too much: In my line of work, grease sometimes hurts rather than helps. It can ADHERE debris to vital parts or moving surfaces, which can gunk up the works.

Ammo, usually Federal Champion, PMC bronze, Hornady critical. No reloads.

I'll try to remember others.

jad0110
February 3, 2013, 01:31 PM
Many factory mags are junk, some are great - most malfunctions are mag-related, so swapping magazines might have cured the "problems" you saw, for instance Armscor guns come with ACT-mags, which are OK range-toy magazines, but not suited to social work the way Wilson (expensive) or MetalForm (not so expensive, but you generally give up a round) are.

Agreed. The 1911 platform is cursed in the same manner as the AR platform with a plethora of crummy magazines. I run the MetalForms with Wolf springs and Colt mags in my 5" Springfield Milspec with good results. The only reliability issues I've experienced with it were related to ammo (it doesn't like Blazer 230 grain FMJ) and a defective replacement mainspring that was way too weak (it was a Wolf with only around 10 to 12 lbs of closing force ... the other 5 springs from Wolf all measured in spec).

In addition, having dozens of different companies producing 1911s and components doesn't help with consistency. I imagine if you had 30 companies making Glocks you'd have the same issues. There is no great mystery with the 1911 design, and it isn't all that different than today's designs.

Personally, at 6'7" and 190 lbs, with a good belt (1.5" bullhide belt from thebeltman) and holster (Gary Brommeland Max Con V), I find a 5" steel 1911 to be super easy to carry and conceal IWB. I also carry 4" S&W N frame without too much trouble, though I do have to wear fairly baggy shirts. To the newbies, I can see where a 1911 would appear to be too big for carry. It looks pretty bulky sitting in the gun shop display case. That is until you look at the width and realize it is only a shade over an inch wide. But as always, they aren't for everyone. Weight isn't an issue with a quality belt and holster, though if you have lower back pain (which I do experience sometimes), it can be a little much.

mljdeckard
February 3, 2013, 02:43 PM
I never had a problem with the Kimber factory mags, I screwed bumper pads on their bases, and used rhem for years. But I did eventually switch to Wilson 47Ds.

Ankeny
February 3, 2013, 03:42 PM
Not that it means much, but I have seen a lot of guns malfunction, including: 1911s, 2011s, CZ 75s, CZ SP 01, M&P, Glock 34, Glock 35, Glock 17, Colt Python revolvers, S&W revolvers, TC Contenders, Springfield XD, and the list goes on. I won't own a gun unless it is dead nuts reliable, and I have had reliable 1911s, 2011s, CZs, M&P, Glocks, H&K, and the list goes on and on.

FWIW, I once had a Les Baer PII that I had re-barreled at around 30,000 rounds by Benny Hill because of a crack developing near the link. I shot the gun another 10-15K before selling it when I stopped shooting L10 in USPSA. The only malfunction I recall having with that pistol was caused by an upside down primer. Then again, I never dropped the gun in the mud then run over it with a duece and a half before rinsing it off with rancid swamp water.

medic_guns
February 4, 2013, 11:34 PM
I'm 5'8", 158 lbs. I carry a 1911 every day. Sometimes IWB, sometimes OWB. I have a gun belt, not regular belt. I never have any issues. It is a tad heavier than some guns. I love the trigger, the way it shoots, how thin it is, etc. I especially love loading 200gr SWC on my dillon for it. The gun shoots very nice and is reliable.

Double Naught Spy
February 4, 2013, 11:47 PM
I don't like to grease to much: In my line of work, grease sometimes hurts rather than helps. It can attract debris, which can gunk up the works.

Grease does not attract gunk or anything else. It has no such properties of attraction. Certain petroleum products may trap gunk encountered but does not actually attract them.

meanmrmustard
February 5, 2013, 05:44 AM
Grease does not attract gunk or anything else. It has no such properties of attraction. Certain petroleum products may trap gunk encountered but does not actually attract them.
I'm hoping you don't take offense, but duh?

I'm aware it's not an actual magnet, that's not what I meant. But yes, go and put grease, high pressure, lithium, or even just vasoline, on something in a shop, and 9/10 in lickity split it'll have picked up dust, metal shavings, grinding dust, etc. Fine particles will travel by air, and they will end up in any seemingly impenetrable nook or cranny and stick to your lube. Nature of the beast.

I've noticed the same with guns; while some lube is necessary on high wear areas, I don't go too thick, as debris, fouling, lint, brass particles will find it and begin to muck things up.

This is how I should have worded it. I was kinda figuring people would've realized what I meant, rather than literal semantics. But, for your sake, we will call it adhesion rather than attraction.

rodinal220
February 5, 2013, 04:40 PM
A 5" 1911 in a Milt Sparks EX and proper heavy belt carries quite nicely.1911s are slim and one of the better full size guns to conceal,Glocks(I like em!!) are like trying to hide a 2x4.
The Commander and Officers/Defender/Agent are even easier to carry,especially the ones with the aluminum frames.

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