Oversized Patchless Round Balls?


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rodwha
January 31, 2013, 03:07 PM
Ever hear of such a thing as loading oversized RB's without a patch?

Here's a link to the thread discussing it:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/276944/

I'm intrigued. I'd give it a go with wads.

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Mike OTDP
January 31, 2013, 06:11 PM
It's not uncommon for MLAIC smoothbore shooters to do just that. The balls are frequently stippled...and loaded over a Cream of Wheat buffer.

Patocazador
January 31, 2013, 09:44 PM
You essentially do that with round balls in a cap & ball revolver.

Rattus58
January 31, 2013, 10:54 PM
You essentially do that with round balls in a cap & ball revolver.
hehe... indeed..... but it's interesting that you might have like a .450 bore and a .457 ball maybe over a cardboard wad...

xXxplosive
January 31, 2013, 11:20 PM
Always in my smoothbores.......example...I Rasp a .715 ball for my .72 Cal. using two Bastard Files....I roll the ball between the two files, one on the bottom and one on top untill the entire ball is rasped and just sits inside the muzzle of the gun...then I push it down with the rod, no patch, no buffer, right on top of the powder charge. Shoots beautifullly every time and reloading speed is just unbelievable.

Hunt this way with my .62 and .72 Cal. smoothbores.......love it.

rodwha
February 1, 2013, 11:14 AM
Sorry. I wasn't very specific. I believe the idea what loading an oversized RB in a rifled barrel. In essence loading it like a REAL.

xXxplosive
February 1, 2013, 02:16 PM
So then you'd probably have to pound her down with a mallet......to what avail ?

mdauben
February 1, 2013, 02:31 PM
So then you'd probably have to pound her down with a mallet......to what avail ?
I seem to remember reading somewhere that was the way the original European rifles that were the precursers to the American long rifles were loaded.

rodwha
February 1, 2013, 02:32 PM
I do believe a mallet would be necessary.

It's doubtful that there's a good enough reason to do so, but I do find it interesting. As I wouldn't want to need to carry my mallet in the field with me it's doubtful that it'd be a worthwhile adventure. But what if accuracy could be increased? Or if I could get good groups with a wider measure of powder?

And mostly I just wanted to know others knowledge as to whether or not it happened.

Cosmoline
February 1, 2013, 03:55 PM
I remember seeing an original account of Swiss(?) riflemen using wooden mallets. I'll have to try to track that down. IIRC the patching was developed later on in the 18th century as rifles became more common. Remember for the most part these were hunting weapons of aristocrats, not military weapons at all. And they had lots of servants to help.

As far as smoothbores aiming was pretty crude anyway so I don't think they cared much. But FWIW I've done both oversized balls and smaller patched ones in various smoothies. The best combo for me is usually an undersized ball with lubed heavy ticking. It functions as a sabot.

kBob
February 2, 2013, 12:06 AM
I could not open the link to the article without joining and I will not join yet another group.

That said, I have fired an original Jager Rifle made in the early 1700's at a German shooting club where a ball was placed naked in the muzzle and started with a mallet, then a short starter was used to push the bal a few inches down the bore with a mallet and then a near bore sized solid iron ram rod was used to hammer the ball home until a mark on the rod was reached.

Hammering a ball down the steel bore with an iron ram gave me the willies.

I was told that was how it was done in the southern German speaking states and neighboring regions when the rifle was new and that matches to 300 meters were held in the mid 1600s using such a bare ball system in thaat region.

As far a mallets go, the original Baker rifles of the British Army ( actually pretty much a copy of some of the Jager Rifles in use by various German small rifle military units of the time) used a patched ball but one so tight that it was stared with a mallet, short starter and mallet and had a fairly heavy ram rod.

-kBob

Curator
February 2, 2013, 10:26 PM
The only difficult part is finding the right sized round ball to fill the grooves. Bare balls shoot just fine, and are not hard to get started if made from pure lead. A sharp rap on your short starter will get them started in the bore and after that they should slide easily down on top of the powder if the bore is not fouled. I have shot .515 round balls with excellent accuracy in my .50 caliber New Englander. I do wipe the bore after every shot with a slightly damp patch to keep powder fouling from accumulating. I do not get any leading either. Accuracy is best with 60 to 70 grains of FFg Goex.

loose noose
February 3, 2013, 12:23 AM
Been there done that. Used a slightly larger ball .457 ball (pure lead) in front of a wonder wad, and 60 grains of 3f BP. Can't believe how accurate that load was at 75 yards. I'll have to chronograph that some time soon and see what kind of velocity I'm getting.;)

marechal
February 14, 2013, 01:51 AM
I use my ROA since 30 Years only with Cap, .457 round balls and bp

Works like a charm with heavy loads. Never had chainfires.

FreddyKruger
February 15, 2013, 01:45 AM
how well does it work on rifled barrels? I'd like to give it a go in my 58. Would rasping a 575 ball work?

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