What are the common "uncommon" cartridges?


PDA






Skribs
January 31, 2013, 05:07 PM
The recent ammo scare has got me thinking that maybe something a bit more obscure is in my future. However, most of what I read is "9 vs. 45" or some derivative. Things like "9x25 dillon vs. .45 GAP" don't really come up, although those two might be in a bit of a different class.

Not including the pocket pistol rounds (sized around .380 ACP, .32 ACP, or smaller), what are some of the common uncommon cartridges used in semi-automatic handguns? What I mean is a cartridge that is not one of the big 5 that come up in caliber wars (9x19, .357 sig, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP), but which has conversion kits currently being produced for common handguns as well as factory ammunition available from at least one reputable manufacturer.

I'm curious to know about the popularity of various options, how they are available (i.e. which company makes a kit for which gun), and what the purpose of the cartridge is (i.e. why it was designed, what it is commonly used for, and why it is good for that use compared to other options). There are some that I know of, but I don't want to spoil my question by answering it before I get to see some responses.

If you enjoyed reading about "What are the common "uncommon" cartridges?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Bushpilot
January 31, 2013, 05:30 PM
38 Super is the only one that comes to mind...

meanmrmustard
January 31, 2013, 06:17 PM
38 Super is the only one that comes to mind...
Yup. Was thinking of getting a Rock Island in that today.

460 Rowland

Robbins290
January 31, 2013, 06:31 PM
7.62x25? A old soviet round.

ATLDave
January 31, 2013, 06:32 PM
The FN 5.7mm, 7.62x25, and the 9mmMak might qualify, although I don't know anything about the conversion kit availability for them. The first two are bottlenecked, sub-caliber cartridges intended to provide lots of penetration with a small or very small projectile.

The last is about the most powerful cartridge that can be run in a reasonably-sized blow-back design pistol, with ballistics somewhere between .380 and 9mm luger.

It's rare here in the US, but 9x21 is another option. Mainly used in countried where 9x19 is banned as a "military" round. My understanding is that it had some popularity with action pistol shooters, but it fell off after rimless .38 super became more readily available.

RainDodger
February 1, 2013, 02:38 PM
.38 Super - easy to handload, and can also be somewhat hotter than a 9mm. Plus you can use a variety of bullets, from .355 (9mm), to .356 (.38 Super), to .357 (.38/.357) depending on your actual bore. I've had good luck with both .355 and my standard 130 grain .356 bullets.

Here's my carry pistol:

http://www.hotelling.com/kimber2a.jpg

mesinge2
February 1, 2013, 02:39 PM
I personally want a 400 CORBON.

All you need to convert a 1911 is a barrel and recoil spring.

Skribs
February 1, 2013, 03:01 PM
What would be a good resource for information on the various calibers, especially the uncommon ones? Like I said, I don't know too much about what's out there aside from the big 5.

ATLDave
February 1, 2013, 03:27 PM
Reloading manuals, good ones anyway, give each cartridge a multi-paragraph write-up. Objective information, such as the size and weight of projectiles and their velocity, are there in tabular format.

Skribs
February 1, 2013, 03:28 PM
I may look into that. Only reloading I've looked into is shotgun, and the manuals I have don't have much of a write-up, it's all just technical information. I was looking more for generic information, like I asked above.

ATLDave
February 1, 2013, 03:44 PM
Reloading manuals are full of all kinds of interesting information, even if you don't reload. Understanding how cartridges actually work is pretty interesting. And learning about TRUE oddball cartridges, like .41 Action Express, is also fun.

Jim Watson
February 1, 2013, 04:19 PM
It sounds like you need a copy of Cartridges of the World.

The_Armed_Therapist
February 1, 2013, 04:30 PM
I don't intend to offend at all, but 5,000 posts and you're not sure what's out there besides the big 5? ;) Excluding pocket pistol calibers and revolver calibers, these are the ones that come to mind, in approximate order of availability.

.45 GAP
9mm MAK
.38 SUPER
7.62 TOK
5.7x28mm
.50 AE
9x21mm

smalls
February 1, 2013, 04:56 PM
Maybe a little less common than you're looking for, but 9x23 Winchester seems to have a decent following. I've thought about it from time to time.

Vern Humphrey
February 1, 2013, 05:31 PM
When ammo is really scarce, walk into Walmart and see what's still on the shelves. I note that .45 Colt is usually available, even when 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP are sold out.

Skribs
February 1, 2013, 06:04 PM
The_Armed_Therapist, most of the threads I look at on this site don't pertain to the more fringe calibers, plus up until recently I was actively ignoring calibers that weren't in the big 5. I've seen a lot of other calibers mentioned, but I was just looking for some of the different options out there.

There are also a lot of things I find on various websites that I'm not sure if it's something that has any support behind it or if it was an idea 20 years ago that was virtually replaced 10 years ago by something different. In order for me to be interested in getting something in that caliber, it would have to have some current support, because I'm not into used guns or DIY type stuff.

There are a lot of cartridges I've read a little bit about but haven't seen mentioned here, which probably means they are probably too fringe for my needs.

ApacheCoTodd
February 2, 2013, 11:38 AM
9x23

Readily available projectiles and cut down good .223 brass for re-loading.

Lovin' it!

David E
February 2, 2013, 12:08 PM
I'd hardly count .357 Sig in the "Top Five."

Often, there is a box or two of that on an otherwise bare shelf.

10mm is another one, but works in reverse. You buy the gun in 10, then add the .40 (and 357 Sig) barrel(s) and shoot .40 until you can't find it. Oddly, this time around, finding .40 hasn't been too difficult.

I really like 9x23, but even in normal times, it's not easy to find it on purpose at gunstores.

bannockburn
February 2, 2013, 12:37 PM
I have always been a big fan of the. 38 Super cartridge. Plenty of power on tap when you hanload and in a M1911 platform very easy to convert to 9mm .

SharpsDressedMan
February 2, 2013, 12:47 PM
10mm in the 1911 isn't too common, either. A 1911 in .38 Super, 9x23, or 10mm would be the typical "non-standards". Actually, with just a small amount of trouble, a pistol could be set up to fire all three in the same slide and frame.

Skribs
February 2, 2013, 01:55 PM
David E, the reason I consider it part of that group is many manufacturers make guns chambered in .357 sig. I know 10mm doesn't really fit the bill, but it comes up in caliber ars a lot.

tarosean
February 2, 2013, 01:58 PM
7.62x25, and the 9mmMak might qualify, although I don't know anything about the conversion kit availability for them.


Im sure the entire mil surp gun would cost less than any conversion....

David E
February 2, 2013, 03:06 PM
David E, the reason I consider it part of that group is many manufacturers make guns chambered in .357 sig.

Which is a good thing as it pertains to your question. Which I thought was, what rounds are more available/easier to find than the "main" calibers right now? The .357 Sig fits that bill with only a barrel change. If you have a 1911 in .40, the same can be said for a 10mm barrel. One gun, three centerfire calibers with a barrel swap (and mags for the 10). Add the super odd/rare .22 TCM for one more option.

It's not relevant how often these calibers are mentioned in any caliber wars, then dismiss them if you think they're mentioned too often. If your goal is to get a slightly odd caliber to augment your current pistols, then a simple barrel swap will do that pretty well.

One can argue the merits of only having to stock for a couple calibers to perform your given chores, but another argument is to expand your calibers, since you're more likely to be able to find something you can use in times when ammo is hard to find....kinda like now.

BlindJustice
February 2, 2013, 04:11 PM
I have the Bar Sto .400 Cor Bon bbl. for my full size 1911 to switch from
.45 ACP

Not a semi-auto round, but since I shoot a 625 in .45 ACP with full moon clips, I also have in stock, a good supply of the .45 Auto Rim in loads hotter
than .45 ACP. .45 AR was introduced in the 1920s for the surplus M1917s
so users didn't have to use the moon clips.

R-

Fishslayer
February 2, 2013, 07:02 PM
When ammo is really scarce, walk into Walmart and see what's still on the shelves. I note that .45 Colt is usually available, even when 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP are sold out.

At the moment a few boxes of $1/round defensive stuff is the only pistol ammo on the shelves at Walmarts in my area. .38 Super & .357 SIG seem to have lasted the longest. During the Great Ammo Drought of '09 one Walmart had the same two dusty boxes of .357 SIG on the shelf for a loooooong time.

The only real way to ensure a good supply in times like these is to reload. I've heard many, many times that "It's not worth it to reload 9mm." hehe... guess what...:neener:

Of the "common uncommon" calibers I would probably go for a 10mm.

Rollis R. Karvellis
February 2, 2013, 08:44 PM
If you have a .50AE Desert Eagle, it can be converted to .44mag, .41AE, .357mag, but I'm not sure if .41mag was ever made. Also one of the smaller company's are coming back out with a 1911 in .357mag.

wally
February 2, 2013, 09:27 PM
The only real way to ensure a good supply in times like these is to reload.

Not really, tried to buy any primers lately?

Fishslayer
February 2, 2013, 11:43 PM
Not really, tried to buy any primers lately?

Actually, no, but I did swap some .22LR for SRP and some brass for LPP the past couple days.

Some of us tinfoilers have been panic buying for the past 4 years. :uhoh:

It's easier to stockpile components than loaded ammo.

David E
February 3, 2013, 02:30 AM
It's easier to stockpile components than loaded ammo.

Not sure how you reached that conclusion, but I'll counter with: It's easier to shoot loaded ammo than it is to shoot components

Skribs
February 3, 2013, 03:18 AM
As to reloading, my Dad is actually considering getting a press to do 9 and .380. I currently have a press for my shotgun, although I'm just now getting components for it...didn't have any problem ordering most of the stuff online, but most stores were low on powder.

It's not relevant how often these calibers are mentioned in any caliber wars, then dismiss them if you think they're mentioned too often. If your goal is to get a slightly odd caliber to augment your current pistols, then a simple barrel swap will do that pretty well.

I see your point. However, it is relevant in that I already know about these two (.357 sig and 10mm specifically), so going over those again in this thread would be redundant.

One can argue the merits of only having to stock for a couple calibers to perform your given chores, but another argument is to expand your calibers, since you're more likely to be able to find something you can use in times when ammo is hard to find....kinda like now.

I used to argue those merits. Unfortunately one of those merits is price, which is a big factor for me.

maxyedor
February 3, 2013, 03:36 AM
Of the common uncommon rounds, the one that stands out around here is .38 Super. Seems to be available at all the non-Walmart ammo distributers, and the brass, bullets and dies are readily available at the reloading stores I go to. Because it's a common conversion for the 1911, it's IMHO the best answer to your question.

Lots of other cool conversion calibers out there, but most are to a very uncommon round. If it's hard to find on a normal day, it's still hard to find in a panic.

I think reloading is really the answer. Because powder, and primers carry from one round to the next, it's very easy to CYA on many calibers for less. With small primer .45 brass being more and more common, small pistol primers and a jug of powder can be extremely versatile. Most pistol charges are very light, so 8lbs goes a looong way, if you store your components as components, you can easily make whatever you want to shoot, as you need to shoot it.

SharpsDressedMan
February 3, 2013, 07:48 AM
Converting a .45 caliber 1911 to .38 Super is not the easy task that dropping a .357 Sig or 9mm barrel into many .40 weapons is. The 1911 requires either a 9mm or .38 Super slide, .38 Super barrel, mag, and replacing the EJECTOR on the frame to accomplish the task of changeover. A bit more expensive and complex. However, a .38 Super barrel CAN be installed in most 10mm 1911's and 9mm 1911's with little effort or modification, as they use similar ejectors to the .38 super, and often work "as is".

David E
February 3, 2013, 11:15 AM
Everyone touting reloading as the solution to the current ammo crunch apparently is not aware of the current reloading component crunch.

One needs a bit of forethought and planning when it comes to stocking components, too.

Vern Humphrey
February 3, 2013, 04:19 PM
The only real way to ensure a good supply in times like these is to reload. I've heard many, many times that "It's not worth it to reload 9mm." hehe... guess what...
Amen!

Lay in a good stock of powder and primers, get a mould, and make friends with your local tire dealer.

If you enjoyed reading about "What are the common "uncommon" cartridges?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!