One of the best values ever in a ...


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Danny Creasy
January 31, 2013, 10:41 PM
rimfire rifle is the CZ 452 Trainer (aka Special):

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/DSCN0408.jpg

Purchase one if you get the chance.

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viking499
January 31, 2013, 10:45 PM
The trainer is an awesome value. Along with the other 452 rimfire models.

juk
February 1, 2013, 12:03 AM
I would have to agree with you! I love mine. It's just a great all around rifle. It has me spoiled for sure. There can't be too many people that own these rifles in North Bama! Where abouts are you? I'm in Guntersville.

beatledog7
February 1, 2013, 12:17 AM
Yep. Super shooter and a great value. Probably the most gun for the money in my safe.

Girodin
February 1, 2013, 12:59 AM
What does one cost?

ColtPythonElite
February 1, 2013, 01:01 AM
I agree. I have a couple.

ColtPythonElite
February 1, 2013, 01:03 AM
What does one cost?
$350 or so

Bobson
February 1, 2013, 01:12 AM
A $350 .22LR has to be pretty spectacular for it to be a good value, IMO. For me, a good value (in guns) is when respectable accuracy, solid build quality, and authoritative reliability meet reasonable price. The lower the cost of the firearm (compared to its competitors), the more those other three factors can sink and still meet the mark of "good value." Likewise, the more expensive a firearm, the more I expect from it in accuracy, build quality, and reliability.

I think thats pretty much everyone's definition of value; if I were a business owner, appropriately meeting those four needs would be my business plan.

Considering the number of $150-$200 .22LR rifles that are available - some of which have excellent reputations regarding accuracy, build, and reliability (Marlin 60, Ruger 10/22), that CZ 452 must be downright epic.

Thoughts?

ColtPythonElite
February 1, 2013, 01:19 AM
I doubt if $200 will buy any new .22 that can rival a CZ in accuracy. The build quality is outstanding. Reliability? It s tough to build an unreliable bolt gun.

The average 60 or 10/22 can't hold a candle to the average 452,453,455 in terms of accuracy.

Danny Creasy
February 1, 2013, 07:30 AM
Hey juk, I live in the Shoals area. We have three weeks left at the range we built over 30 years ago. We were on a local municipality's retired landfill and they decided that we just had to go last year. "Can't have a shooting range in the city limits." Still looking for land.

Accuracy Bobson? Here is the first target I fired after winning the pictured rifle back in 2010 on Halloween obviously. I adjusted the open sights to my preference and finished with the half incher on the bottom bull. And, that is with kick around ammo at 50 yards.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/DSC04344.jpg

Reliable? This is actually my second Trainer. I purchased the first one back at the turn of the century and it just keeps getting better with wise use and modest care. The second one has nicer wood though.

eastbank
February 1, 2013, 01:11 PM
my 452 trainer shoots like a champ, my friends boy sure kills the squirrels with it. he was useing a old marlin .22 single shot with open sights. eastbank.

Jackal
February 1, 2013, 01:24 PM
Reminds me of the Remington 500 series. Pinpoint accurate, rugged, reliable and built well.

Napalm
February 1, 2013, 01:37 PM
I prefer the ultra lux....pictured not my gun http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz6/evolution1974/CZ%20452%20Ultra%20Lux/1280711433.jpg

Bobson
February 1, 2013, 01:42 PM
Seems like an outstanding gun :D

Girodin
February 1, 2013, 04:49 PM
$350 or so

It's too bad people didn't realize what a steal the Izhmash Biathlon/Sobol rifles were. I'm not sure if they are still imported or not. One used to be able to buy one for less than $250. They have superb triggers, are fully free floated, deeply recessed target crowns andthe one I shot would consistently shoot dime size 10 shot groups at 50 yards. Truly an outstanding value. Plus the toggle action is not only fast, but very cool.

I highly doubt the CZ did anything better, let alone $100 better. I think those biathlons were one of the best values ever. No knock on the CZ, those Russian rifles were (perhaps still are) amazing values. I don't know what one goes for on the used market.

steveo452
February 1, 2013, 05:30 PM
I too believe that a CZ 452 .22 RF to be one of the best values in a rimfire today. The fit-n-finish as well as accuracy are well above anything in their price range. This is my American model that I've had for about five years. It has a leupold VXII 3-9X33 efr. These five shot groups we're shot at fifty yards from the bench, they we're fired consecutively (no cherry picking). The first group was from a cold, cleaned barrel. The rest are typical. It will shoot .6" - .7" at 100 yards fairly often. So yes I would say that CZ rimfire's are a real value.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/fritzy1911/DSCN0222.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/fritzy1911/DSCN0062.jpg

Danny Creasy
February 1, 2013, 08:29 PM
Girodin wrote:
It's too bad people didn't realize what a steal the Izhmash Biathlon/Sobol rifles were. I'm not sure if they are still imported or not. One used to be able to buy one for less than $250. They have superb triggers, are fully free floated, deeply recessed target crowns andthe one I shot would consistently shoot dime size 10 shot groups at 50 yards. Truly an outstanding value. Plus the toggle action is not only fast, but very cool.

I highly doubt the CZ did anything better, let alone $100 better. I think those biathlons were one of the best values ever. No knock on the CZ, those Russian rifles were (perhaps still are) amazing values. I don't know what one goes for on the used market.

I respect the BB but personally I can't stand them. We shoot a plethora of .22 sporter matches at our range and the BBs were really hot a few years ago with half dozen members purchasing them and using them. Here are some issues.

The trigger pull weight is often difficult to increase and that is an issue with the popular sport of CMP Sporter wherein the trigger must lift a 3 lb weight with out releasing the sear. One friend finally put a piece of flip flop sole behind it to give it resistance. The trigger was great for our other sporter matches that had no mininum trigger pull weight. It has a fine trigger from the factory.

To me it feels like a heavy board with no balance or liveliness.

I have witnessed the BB shooters jam the snic snac action too many times to count in rapidfire strings. The aforementioned friend seems to be the only one of the local BB shooters to have mastered the technique of working the straight pull bolt reliably. He would often coach the others, "you have to man handle it - work the h**l out of it."

Oh, I must point out. When you could still purchase the BBs new, a CZ 452 Trainer cost around $250 as well. One must compare apples to apples.

viking499
February 1, 2013, 11:22 PM
Shef, what were some of the other rifles on the line the day of the pic above? Many other CZ's?

Girodin
February 2, 2013, 12:54 AM
The trigger pull weight is often difficult to increase and that is an issue with the popular sport of CMP Sporter wherein the trigger must lift a 3 lb weight with out releasing the sear.

Interesting rule. Sounds like it might not be a good choice for such contests. I'm not surprised to hear that the trigger is less than 3 lbs. In its factory set up I like it.

To me it feels like a heavy board with no balance or liveliness.

Different guns fit people differently and we all have our personal preferences.

I have witnessed the BB shooters jam the snic snac action too many time to count in rapidfire strings. The aforementioned friend seems to be the only one of the local BB shooters to have mastered the technique of working the straight pull bolt reliably.

Interesting. I've never seen it. Nor have I seen it during an actual Biathlon where that Izhmash action is used. I don't doubt its more of a shooter issue than anything else. Just like with the shooters I see short stroking pump guns in 3 -gun.

When you could still purchase the BBs new, a CZ 452 Trainer cost around $250 as well.

Definitely a valid point if that was the case. I'm not sure when Izhmash guns were last available. I'm trying to think when I last saw one in a shop. Definitely a few years ago, but it was $240. At even money I don't know that I would argue one is per se better than the other. Of course my sample size with either gun is of course limited.

Danny Creasy
February 2, 2013, 10:07 AM
viking499 asked:

Shef, what were some of the other rifles on the line the day of the pic above? Many other CZ's?

The picture was taken of me on the firing line at the 2011 National Rimfire Sporter Match (Camp Perry, OH). I would have simply posted a quick link for you showing the match results with all of the rifles being used, but I cannot figure out the latest edition of the CMP website. Sometimes change is not good! :confused:

Anyway, there are three classes of rifles used in CMP Sporter competition; Open Sight (O Class), Telescopic (T Class), and Tactical. The various open sighted CZs like the Trainer aka Special, Lux, UltraLux, and FS dominate O Class. If memory serves me correctly from 2011, almost half of the top 30 O Class shooters used Trainers that day, and most of the other half used one of the other open-sighted CZs.

Up until 2010, the CZ American model was in the hands of many T Class shooters. However, there has been a recent, and sad trend to me, of the dominance of T Class by highly customized Ruger 10/22s (there is one such rifle's barrel appearing to the left in the pic). While they are within the letter of rules, I don't think they are in the spirit of them. But, as all shooting competitions tend to go, specialized equipment will always surface and then dominate the sport until they turn into equipment races.

Even O Class shooters have started building custom 10/22s with big clear open sights attached.

Girodin
February 2, 2013, 06:36 PM
While they are within the letter of rules, I don't think they are in the spirit of them.

Can I ask why? I don't know much about the even and some am legitimately interested to hear why that is. Thanks.

Danny Creasy
February 2, 2013, 06:50 PM
http://www.odcmp.com/Comm/Rimfire.pdf

soonerfan85
February 2, 2013, 07:23 PM
Really like the CZs . Maybe one of these days.

If your budget doesn't allow for a $400 rimfire but still want an accurate rifle, look for a Romanian M69. This was shot at 50yds in light rain with a $20 Tasco 4x scope using my range bag as a rest. Started with the middle target to sight in scope. Began 5 shot groups at upper right and moved clockwise. Tried the two small targets last using 3 shots. I'm not patient enough to get the best from the rifle.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k5/triumphdaytonafan/Romanian%20Model%20M69/M6925yds.jpg

The M69 definitely leaves a lot to be desired in the looks dept. :)

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k5/triumphdaytonafan/Romanian%20Model%20M69/M69.jpg

I have a NIB BRNO 611 that I've never shot. I think it's time to buy a CZ to shoot.

Danny Creasy
February 2, 2013, 08:03 PM
I remember seeing the Rominian Trainers at gun shows in the 90s selling for $39.95. I have yet to ever fire one. But, I have heard they are good bang for the buck.

Congratulations on the fine shooting.

soonerfan85
February 2, 2013, 08:16 PM
Sheffield, do you know if the CZ trainer was built to mimic, for lack of a better word, any particular military bolt action rifle ?

Wish My old eyes were still good enough to shoot open sights. Tri focals aren't very helpful on the range. :mad:

Even the M69s are selling for $125 to $150 now.

Girodin
February 2, 2013, 08:25 PM
I've thought of getting one of those Romanian ones. They were like $90 five years ago. If they can still be had for $125-150 I should probably just do it or I'll be kicking my self like I am for not just buying another K31 a few years back when they were much cheaper. Do you know where one can find a M69 in stock these days?

Danny Creasy
February 2, 2013, 09:14 PM
soonerfan85, I think they just liked the idea of calling it a trainer. It is not modeled after any military rifle. It is actually the beech stocked version of their CZ 452 Lux which has a Turkish Walnut stock. These two models usually have about a $75 to $100 price differential.

The CZ 452 action is actually fashioned after the BRNO #1, 2, 3, etc.

Both of the two CZ 452 "Trainers" that I have came with boxes labeled 452 Special.

Oh, be careful about what you see out there. The CZ rimfire models have been produced in a dizzying array of variations. I have known folks to go on the search for a Special/Trainer and come home with a 513 Basic. The Basic employs a single screw action to stock attachment design and it has a very basic trigger design that uses a wheel and leaf spring. I have one of those as well. It is very rugged, attractive in a simple way, and mine will shoot as well as most of my CZ 452s. But, the trigger on the basic is creepy and heavy. Hold out for a Special/Trainer. In Europe, the Basic is called a Farmer.

Pic of my 513 Basic with a Weaver RV-7 on board in Leupold 11mm tip-off rings:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/DSC04297.jpg

soonerfan85
February 2, 2013, 09:16 PM
Looks like libertytreecollectors.com has them for $150. I don't know anything about those guys.

MrBorland
February 2, 2013, 09:30 PM
Gotta agree with the OP that the CZ452 Trainer is an excellent rifle. Dern near the perfect all-arounder, IMO.

I have a scoped 452 Varmint & an UltraLux that's fitted with BRNO aperture sights. Prone at 50 yards, with an NRA smallbore target, sling, and CCI SV ammo, I'm getting scores like the one below (the "flier" in the 9-ring was called - the result of an "idiot thought" just as the shot broke :cuss:).

I'd love to give Rimfire Sporter a whirl. Fortunately for me, the CMP Eastern Games host one, and they're held just up the road. :)


CZ452 UltraLux, BRNO sights, 50 yards prone, CCI SV, 49-3x:
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/becke016/GunsTargets/CZ452LuxBRNOsights12-14-12.jpg

Danny Creasy
February 2, 2013, 09:52 PM
The UltraLux is possibly the most elegant rifle in the line

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/CZUltraLux-1.jpg

with the possible exception of the FS model:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/DSC03805.jpg

:o The FS is not a miniature. It is dwarfed by the 4XL t-shirt. That year at Perry, I was late getting over to the T Shirt stand and that is all they had left. I am a big guy but not that big.

soonerfan85
February 2, 2013, 10:19 PM
Love the wood and stocks on those rifles. Once I find a Marlin 39 or Winny 9422 lever action a CZ will be in my sights.

blkbrd666
February 2, 2013, 10:39 PM
Nice rifles sheffieldshootr. Where did you find them around there? And, out of curiosity, what landfield did everyone use as a range? I grew up in Tuscumbia...always just shot around the house since I lived out on Wheeler Mtn.

Danny Creasy
February 2, 2013, 11:57 PM
Hey black bird,

The range was started in Sheffield's industrial park (near the Reynold's can plant and blue star concrete) by a group of private citizens. The former site of an old US Pipe facility was later used for a landfill for decades and the city had a long lease on it. After it ceased to be an active dumping site, the group approached the city in the early 80s and asked if they could build a shooting range and maintain it with the Sheffield Police being able to use it for qualifications, practice, etc.. They got the green light and that is how it came to be.

It grew from a handful of members to over 480 as of late. I served as club president for 15 years and later as the Rimfire Match Director. I am proud of the rimfire match schedule we developed. We hold six different rimfire matches each month from silhouettes to benchrest to CMP Sporter and an IDPA bunch and a Cowboy Action crew also hold monthly Sunday afternoon matches.

The city council gave us a year to vacate last February. It was their land (they actually purchased it when the lease ran out in the early aughts), so we had no protection under the Alabama Range Protection Act.

My CZs came from local gun shops usually by special order. Now, Gander Mountain has arrived in Florence and keeps some in stock.

However, I think a new shooter would be apprehensive about buying a .22 with the total disappearance of .22 LR ammunition from sales counters and online suppliers. I am helping a college student, my wife's best friend's son, learn about the shooting sports. They have no firearms in their home and he has been attending our last few weekly matches and using my rifles and ammunition. He listens, is safe, and has some of the better natural skills that I have come across. He and his Dad have been discussing his first firearms acquisition but it is a trying time to enter the market.

I ramble but isn't that what makes these forums fun. Like a conversation with friends.

blkbrd666
February 3, 2013, 12:23 AM
I know where the concrete place is...never knew there was a range anywhere around there. I left after I graduated from UNA...still have family there though. I was looking for a bolt action .22 a while back...couldn't find a CZ anywhere so I finally bought a Savage to play with. I may start looking again after I finish restoring this little Marlin I found at a local shop. I sure miss living out where I could shoot all day in the backyard.

GlockFan
February 3, 2013, 12:28 AM
For anyone who is interested. Romanians for $119...no mag though.

https://www.royaltigerimports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92&Itemid=154#!/~/product/category=2251802&id=14498140

Girodin
February 3, 2013, 01:36 AM
sheffieldshootr, those are beautiful guns. I really like the latter one. You've sent me google searching for an FS model. I may just have to get one. I've been buying mostly black rifles as of late, it may be time for a pretty wood and blue gun like that.

GlockFan, thanks for the link to the Romanian. Now to to find and price mags.

Danny Creasy
February 3, 2013, 09:43 AM
Thanks Girodin for the kind words.

For scoped shooting the CZ 452, 453, and 455 American, Varmint, Silhouette, and Style models are stocked appropriately with higher combs.

Here is one of my two CZ 452 Americans:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/CampPerry2008-3.jpg
It is scoped with a Sightron HBR II fixed 6X42 for CMP Sporter use in the above pic.

Here is my 452 Varmint set up for our 90 yard fun match called The Raptor Match:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/DSC04747.jpg
We speed shoot at little steel chickens on the highpower rifle range using a stop watch and bi-pod from prone. It is a hoot! From a standing start, the shooter has one minute to go prone and engage the string of five chickens with 10 rounds. The aggregate number left standing from three strings is your score and the low score wins. Several folks usually clean em, so we have shoot-offs with only five rounds allowed. That's where things get exciting. Please note how high the Blazers grouped at 50 yards (lower right bull) after being zeroed at 90 yards for the Raptor.

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