Mosin: A thought on accurizing


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Mudcat Stew
January 31, 2013, 11:43 PM
In the recent buying frenzy on arms, I thought I should pick up another one.

Stumbled onto a Mosin at a pawn shop. No import marks to speak of. It's a 36 Izhevsk with a round receiver. Finish is worn off and the stock is fairly scarred up but certainly serviceable. The bore looked great and I decided to pick it up when the owner agreed that $100 tax and all was enough for the gun.

After a cleanup on the gun the only matching numbers are the receiver and the front of the bolt assembly. The mag, stock and rear bolt all have differing numbers.

I was planning on leaving it stock, but after seeing all the mismatched numbers I may refinish the stock and reblue it.. who knows.

Anyways. I shot it while it was dirty last weekend and decided I had gun. After drifting in the front sight, I managed a 5 shot 5 inch group.. 3 of which were in 2. Done free standing and I am not a great shooter.. more of a pie plate popper.

After cleanup, I shimmed the trigger spring with three beer tops and have got it to what I think is about 2 to 2.5 lb. pull. I plan on getting some aluminum foil and shimming further to get it as close to a hair trigger as possible.

Problem is... and here is the question.. after you shim that trigger, the trigger has a lot of play till you get it back. It flops a bit.

On another Mosin.. I made a scout rifle out of.. I put a return spring in it to eliminate the flop.

I am thinking backwards on this one. What if I put a light "keeper" spring in the group. Rather than a spring that pulled the trigger forward from the point of execution(dunno if that is the right term), put in one that held it against it.. so trigger play wouldn't be a factor.

Your thoughts?

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vit
February 1, 2013, 02:34 PM
Sounds like a possible Spanish Civil War rifle. Post pictures before doing any work to it.

Rail Driver
February 1, 2013, 02:40 PM
I don't understand people that want a uberlight trigger on something like a mosin - Hair triggers can be extremely dangerous if not handled properly.

Besides that, while I understand making the rifle look nice and all, doing too much to a Mosin is like polishing a turd - It's a mosin and will always be a mosin, why try to turn it into something it's not?

rcmodel
February 1, 2013, 02:43 PM
plan on getting some aluminum foil and shimming further to get it as close to a hair trigger as possible.Aluminum foil & pop tabs??? Seriously??
Thats just really a bad idea.

A military trigger is long & heavy on purpose to the striker won't slip off the sear when operated fast and slam-fire.

Lots of championship shooters have mastered a heavy military two-stage trigger in the past and continue to do so today. You can too.

Don't play with fire by trying to make it something it cannot ever be.
Namely, a safe hair trigger!

If you want a 100% safe light trigger, buy one.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/559350/timney-trigger-mosin-nagant-1-1-2-to-4-lb-steel-matte

http://www.huberconcepts.com/Mosin-Nagant_Trigger_Replacement.htm

rc

LoonWulf
February 1, 2013, 03:01 PM
Im with RC, there is too much slop in the firing pin/sear engagement to try make the mosins trigger super short.

Shadow 7D
February 1, 2013, 03:11 PM
Listen, if it's a SWC, (the bolts were kept separate so the NEVER match, it's never been rearsenaled...)

touching it will destroy the 100-150 in value over a similar MN

Just saying, before you start knocking dollar signs off the gun,
do your due diligence and find out what you have.

If you MUST mod the trigger, consider one of the aftermarkets, VS. shimming, with shimming you are loosing engagement area, and will make it unsafe after a point, one that is usually passed by those trying for a target rifle trigger.

The Fins actually modified their sear engagement, but that to isn't something you just pop a dremil on, as you need to have a sloping engagement to minimize the chance it might fire when dropped
A aftermarket drop in has all this engineering done for you.

caribou
February 1, 2013, 07:20 PM
If your a pie plate popper baseing your rifles accuracy on freestanding ,offhand shooting, I think the rifle is mighty fine as it is and you should practise more.

That is the best way to accurize, from what Ive read, in the original post.

practise, practise, practise.

adelbridge
February 1, 2013, 10:11 PM
Chances are the bore is pitted and worn so unless you dump new gun money into it it will never shoot like a new gun

caribou
February 2, 2013, 01:53 AM
"The Bore looked great" quoted from he who looked at the bore and bought the rifle would indicate that bore condition is not pitted or worn and not a factor in th accuracy question.

Shimming for a light trigger can be trouble in itself, so go slow and test often. They do sell the springs the Finns used to eliminate trigger slack, Google up "Mosin trigger spring" an you can fine them or replicas cheap like.

macadore
February 2, 2013, 11:14 AM
Aluminum foil & pop tabs??? Seriously??
Thats just really a bad idea.

A military trigger is long & heavy on purpose to the striker won't slip off the sear when operated fast and slam-fire.

Lots of championship shooters have mastered a heavy military two-stage trigger in the past and continue to do so today. You can too.

Don't play with fire by trying to make it something it cannot ever be.
Namely, a safe hair trigger!

If you want a 100% safe light trigger, buy one.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/559350/timney-trigger-mosin-nagant-1-1-2-to-4-lb-steel-matte

http://www.huberconcepts.com/Mosin-Nagant_Trigger_Replacement.htm

rc
Those triggers cost as much as the rifle.

tech30528
February 2, 2013, 04:35 PM
Nice thing about these rifles is that you can still find good barrels for them if you keep looking, and that is about all that matters. I built one last year, a 1932 Izzy hex, just see if I could. My budget was $500. For that I got a scope mount and drop bolt kit, a Barska 6x24 scope, cut the barrel to 22 inches and installed a JP recoil eliminator and a Timney trigger. Had to cut down the stock a bit so it isn't pretty yet but that wasn't the point. I wanted to see if it was possible to build a cheap 30 cal that shot cheap (about 18 cents a round) milsurp that is readily available. As it tuns out without any bedding it shots under 2MOA with 1971 Bulgarian and 1986 Russian milsurp, which while not great is certainly good enough for hunting or field survice and I've been out to 400 yards with it.

So it worked. The next step was gong to be to go with a nice laminate thumbhole stock for it, found some nice custom stuff in the $300 range. But then Promag debutted the Archangel stock for it a couple of weeks ago and made it a removable mag bolt gun so I'm going to go that way. It solves the loading problem with having the scope over the top of the bolt and it seems ammo manufacturers are catching up to it as well. I've seen hunting rounds from 150 grain ballistic tips to 182 grain match grade to 220 grain soft points.

I've got one more unmolested MN sitting around, after the panic I may try to find a few more for future projects. They're cheap, fun, and I think they might just be the next 10 22 when it comes to aftermarket parts and there are a lot of them around. So far the only aftermarket barrels I've seen for them are reworked heavy machine gun barrels but I think it won't be long before some starts producing them.

tech30528
February 2, 2013, 04:40 PM
If you said that about a Remington 700 I would understand, but the triggers are not expensive. I got my Timney for $80. That new Archangel stock is $238, twice the price of he rifle but still a good deal and it is precut for the Timney. It's tough to build and shoot a decent 30 cal for less than you can with the Mosin.

Joshua M. Smith
February 3, 2013, 03:26 PM
Hello,

Please don't shim your Mosin's sear. It's dangerous.

Try these links:

http://www.smith-sights.com/article-accurizing-mosin-nagant.php

http://www.smith-sights.com/article----accuracy.php

http://www.smith-sights.com/accurizing-the-mosin-nagant-a-year-later.php

Make a two-stage trigger:

Here is a trigger I modified while taking time to record the manufacturing process. Please bear in mind that this is during manufacture and it does not yet have grease or bluing on it.

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o560/Smith-Sights/Private/super%20secret%20squirrel%20stuff/4.jpg

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o560/Smith-Sights/Private/super%20secret%20squirrel%20stuff/3.jpg

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o560/Smith-Sights/Private/super%20secret%20squirrel%20stuff/2.jpg

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o560/Smith-Sights/Private/super%20secret%20squirrel%20stuff/1.jpg

If you need steps to make this trigger for yourself, I'll outline it for you if it keeps you from making this hair trigger you speak of with shims and such.

Regards,

Josh

drhenzler
February 3, 2013, 03:45 PM
Probably the best video ever done.
http://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5540
<http://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5540>

2nd Best
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/51810-poor-boy-mosin-nagant-trigger-job.htmlhttp://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/51810-poor-boy-mosin-nagant-trigger-job.html

Others for good cross section of ideas...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/08/chris-dumm/a-bubba-gunsmiths-guide-to-the-mosin-nagant-trigger/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty_u4jo3GHc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0KmJV6n8N4

http://www.universalshootingsports.com/index.php?topic=20.0

raindog
February 3, 2013, 04:03 PM
There are drop-in triggers for the Mosin. I think Timney makes one as well.

Other accurizing steps:

(1) Extreme cleaning. A few wet/dry cycles with CLP are not even close. I recommend an electronic bore cleaner (homemade is fine) and use of a powerful solvent like Butch's Boreshine. It's not unusual to go through a half-dozen electronic bore cleaner cycles with a lot of wet/dry solvent cycles in between, perhaps with brush scrubbing.

(2) Slug your barrel. Shooting .308 barrels out of a barrel that slugs to .311 is never going to give you much accuracy. Mosin barrels vary widely. You'll be happiest handloading.

drhenzler
February 3, 2013, 10:57 PM
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/51810-poor-boy-mosin-nagant-trigger-job.html

Arkansas Paul
February 3, 2013, 11:53 PM
After cleanup, I shimmed the trigger spring with three beer tops and have got it to what I think is about 2 to 2.5 lb. pull. I plan on getting some aluminum foil and shimming further to get it as close to a hair trigger as possible.


This has got to be a joke. Assuming it will work with any kind of consistency, just how long do you expect pop tabs and tin foil to do the job? Not exactly materials that were made to be used as trigger assembly parts.

Also, you're attempting to put a sub 2 lb trigger on a gun with no safety to speak of. Remind me to never go to the woods or range with you if you're carrying a gun that you've worked on with pop tabs and tin foil.

tmccray45
February 4, 2013, 10:27 AM
I'm with Raindog about the question of cleaning.

I had cleaned my Mosin many times with Hoppes #9 and was never able to group very well. I put the rifle aside in frustration.

It was a dark and stormy night . . . and I had nothing better to do than manufacture a electronic bore cleaner. Easy enough to do. (Google it.)

What a difference it made with my '42 Mosin. It brought all kinds of crud out of the bore - the solution turned a nasty thick brown. I did it three times, changing the solution each time. I finished with a cleaning using Hoppes #9 and took it to the range. It's not as accurate as my Remington .308 or my 7.62x39 Mauser action, but I wouldn't feel hesitant taking it deer hunting out to 100 yards. It shoots about 2 - 3 inches at that range.

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