30-06 primer question


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16in50calNavalRifle
February 1, 2013, 01:01 PM
Very unlike my usual approach to things, but given the astonishing and disastrous national behavior of the fall, I am thinking of hedging against a "worst case" scenario on reloading components. That is, stocking up as though the shortages/panic will persist well beyond 3 - 6 months.

I have intended to reload for my M1 Garand, but have yet to get the dies or components (still happily using CMP HXP surplus and saving the brass).

I noticed that Powder Valley has the Tula "NATO" 7.62 LRP in stock.

Question: are those primers the equivalent of the CCI #34 primers, and the appropriate type to use in a Garand load (less sensitive primers for use in a semi-auto)? If yes, as I believe to be the case, then I will get some of those and store them away until my HXP is gone.

Bonus question: PV also has Red Dot in stock. Not one of my powders so far, but it looks versatile. I reload for 9mm/38sp/45ACP. Is Red Dot a good powder to add to my stocks for those uses? Thinking of picking up some Red Dot and also some Vihtavouri (PV has a selection of that back in stock as well) - I know many reloaders tried "new" components during the last shortage out of neccessity, thinking of doing so out of pessimism .....

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USSR
February 1, 2013, 07:19 PM
I noticed that Powder Valley has the Tula "NATO" 7.62 LRP in stock.

Question: are those primers the equivalent of the CCI #34 primers, and the appropriate type to use in a Garand load (less sensitive primers for use in a semi-auto)? If yes, as I believe to be the case, then I will get some of those and store them away until my HXP is gone.

Don't know if they are the equivalent of the #34 primers, as I have never used the CCI primers. I recently bought the Tula Nato LRP's simply because the price was right ($75 for 5k). However, I wouldn't worry about using standard primers other than Federals. I have used 1,000's of Winchester LRP's in my 3 Garands for years without incident.

PV also has Red Dot in stock. Not one of my powders so far, but it looks versatile. I reload for 9mm/38sp/45ACP. Is Red Dot a good powder to add to my stocks for those uses?

Red Dot is a good powder for the .38 Spl and .45 ACP. I don't load for the 9mm, but Red Dot appears to be a bit too fast for that cartridge. Hope that helps.

Don

16in50calNavalRifle
February 1, 2013, 07:34 PM
Thanks, Don. For once I decided to bet on a worse case and went ahead and got the primers and Red Dot - and some V340 just for fun. As you said, the Tula LRPs are attractively priced, reason enough to give them a try. I am fairly sure they are like the CCI 34s (less sensitive), just wanted to confirm it. And as 30-06 will be the only bottleneck cartridge I have loaded, and it's for a semi-auto, I don't mind taking a few extra precautions.

You mention Federals - their SPPs are actually preferred for one specific load I do - for a revolver with a moderate hammer strike that I don't want to mess with. Only have 500 of those, so it looks like at least one "shortage" will have snagged me.

NWcityguy2
February 1, 2013, 07:42 PM
Alliant used to publish a full assortment of load for Red Dot in 9mm, 38spl and 45acp. Currently they publish very little. Here is a link to download their older reloading manuals. I currently like the 1996 one the best. Be warned, some loads that are still published are less than they were in 1996. Work up with care as always. http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant.html

The downside to Red Dot, and all large flake powders, is they do not always meter well in small handgun sized loads. They also have Green Dot in stock, which I am using for all of those calibers but only when the humidity is low. With 38spl though I break out the dippers.

If you want to buy now for those three powders, just looking through what they have in stock, I'd recommend getting Hodgdon Clays and HS-6 over Red Dot. Clays for 45acp and 38spl and HS-6 for 9mm. Clays works for 9mm too but is not recommended above 125gr bullets. Also with Clays the difference in weight between min load and over max is almost nothing, so double check your measurement.

16in50calNavalRifle
February 1, 2013, 07:51 PM
Thanks for that info, NWCityguy2. I will check out the older published data. Indeed, I was looking over the current Alliant data and it seems a bit spotty with some powders in some calibers (and their charts have some idiosyncracies that I need to figure out, including whether their single column for each powder/bullet represents starting or max load). But there are still several loads in the current chart that correspond to bullets I have in my stock, so no problem is anticipated.

I always load low- to mid-range loads, so no worries about using older data.

Already put in the order, but yes I see H-6 a lot in connection with 38 Special. Maybe next time. Let's hope the component situation will ease before too long. Meanwhile I get to try two new powders, something I'd planned to do eventually in any case.

NWcityguy2
February 1, 2013, 07:56 PM
No problem. Alliant only publishes max load, so reduce 10% and work up to what they say.

Back in 2005 Alliant dropped most of their load data for handguns and some of their rifle stuff as well. Right now they only publish loads for bullets that Speer makes and their choices in powder are almost random.

16in50calNavalRifle
February 1, 2013, 08:08 PM
I know this was the subject of another recent thread, and I'm not repeating exactly what the OP argued there, but I do find it puzzling - as a business matter - that powder vendors would not provide as much useful info as possible regarding ..... uh, how to use their product!

I'm not a good customer who will use a wide variety of products in large quantities, but if I were that type I can see being stymied by the oddly incomplete data provided by powder makers. If I'm selling powder, I want people to be using it to shave and treat fleas on the cat and anything else that makes them buy it (just joking to make the point). I surely don't want them puzzling over why, in a given caliber, there is no data for some of the most commonly used bullets, while there is data for almost every other bullet, including oddballs.

The absence of such a thing tells me I'm wrong here, but I would think a manual/database destined for big sales would be one in which someone compiled ALL of the permutations/loads for ALL of the most common powders with ALL of the most common bullet types, using not test barrels but common firearms with the most common barrel lengths (just to make the info even more useful in the real world where the products are used). Seems such a thing would be a must-have for everyone, from one-caliber occasional reloaders to those with serious cases of reloading disease.

ArchAngelCD
February 2, 2013, 01:28 AM
16in50calNavalRifle,
Red Dot, like all the Alliant Dot powders is actually a shotgun powder, not a handgun powder. Of course we have found most shotgun powders can also load handgun cartridges too but it's primarily a shotgun powder. That would explain the lack of handgun load data along with the fact most powder companies have added many powders to their catalog over the past Decade or so. Many of those powders are more suitable for handgun loading so they are moving away from listing data for less suitable powders like shotgun powders. Of course this is only my opinion and I can be wrong...

16in50calNavalRifle
February 2, 2013, 01:48 AM
Thanks Archangel, good points. I look forward to trying Red Dot and N340 and there are sufficient load data for my purposes. So far I have simple and modest needs - plinking and practice and informal competitions - though at some point I'd enjoy the challenge and the benefits of reproducing the recoil of my self-defense rounds in cheaper reloads.

Depending on my consumption rate and the length of the madness, it looks like I might be OK. But I feel badly for new gun owners and new reloaders (was a new owner during the last panic and know what it's like to constantly search for available and affordable ammo). I know one club I shoot at is already changing some of their events to rimfire (though there you run up against the really interesting 22LR shortage).

For my Mosins I trust there are as yet many unemptied warehouses in Ukraine and Russia with spam cans of 54R to the ceilings, but it would be nice if Tula or S&B would decide to expand their capacity and churn out primers to meet American demand (and if PPU makes their reasonably priced Garand 30-06 ammo a regular production run, I might hold off reloading for the M1 a while).

Hard_Cast
February 2, 2013, 02:51 AM
16in50calNavalRifle,

Don't worry too much about primer selection in the Garand. I'd agree to stay away from the Federals, as they seem on the sensitive side, but any other standard primer should do fine to light 4895 or 4064 class powders. The Tula's give me a dud every couple hundred rounds, but it almost always lights the second strike. About the same frequency in factory Tula 7.62x39 as well... But in a pinch, they will work fine.

Instead, focus on seating depth, making sure all primers are at least flush or slightly below. DO WHAT IT TAKES, be it more adequately removing old primer crimp or cleaning primer pockets, to get those buggers in there... and you'll have no worries.

On a different note-- I know you already said you bought powder, but Accurate #5 works GREAT in all three- .38, 9, and .45 ACP -- for me, and it meters FLAWLESSLY. Fine particles + lotsa graphite. Good powder.

Patrick

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