Armed School Guard. How to?


PDA






HoosierQ
February 1, 2013, 02:57 PM
I am all for this. Israel does it with great success and does so under a much more statistically plausible threat liklihood.

But here, in the US. How do we make that work? Here's why I ask. Given the fact that there are 10's upon 10's of thousands of schools in the US and there've been, what, 4 or 5 big shooting events in the last ten years or so...very low liklihood. You're also gonna need from maybe as few as 1 or 2 to easily 10 guards depending on the school to get the job done.

How do you keep all these folks trained and ready given they'll likely never have any real world practice...like say a Marine in Afghanistan gets, or a cop in Detroit or Miami gets? And maybe the bigger threat to the mission, how do you keep these folks on task...and keep them from becoming the cigarette, marijuana, and naughty tee-shirt cops? Three things that just about every school has in abundance.

I ask because I think this is what we should do. Not having any training as any sort of first responder or any military experience, how to we keep so many people sharp and ready for what will be a stressful unfamiliar event?

If you enjoyed reading about "Armed School Guard. How to?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
BHP FAN
February 1, 2013, 03:03 PM
this is how it's done!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MPMG3hWmMk

MtnCreek
February 1, 2013, 03:10 PM
Locally, they’re part of the Sheriff’s department. As far as them not smoking pot and checking out the HS’ers, the ones we have are generally older folks. Not that being older prevents such, but it probably helps.

I don’t know what kind of training ours have. If you’ve seen our deputies, you would figure there isn’t much PT going on. As far as funding, I don’t know, but I can find out.

HoosierQ
February 1, 2013, 03:44 PM
Well that's how he did it...and well done it was. How do we see to it that we have a corps of people that will maximize the probability of this kind of outcome?

I do not dispute the validity of the school guard. I want them to be a professional corps of people. Sort of like Israeli air marshalls or something. They don't get a lot of practice on real planes, with real passengers, and real hijackers either. That's because everybody knows that if you try any funny business on an Israeli airplane, you're DRT.

Claude Clay
February 1, 2013, 04:22 PM
I've figured about $100,000 per school per year for a police officer ( or any armed union person)
but tasers are ~500 each. add a wall safe for each yields a set up cost of about 10,000 per school plus annual expense of $100 each for maintenance.
training for those who want to sit in the emergency exit row---classrooms at the end of each wing/ each floor and the main office plus a pistol caliber carbine in the principals office...training would likely be donated by NRA instructors or given their dislike for 'us', local police.

Skribs
February 1, 2013, 04:23 PM
We don't need armed guards in the schools. They will cost the taxpayers' money and basically waste their time, because unless there is a shooting, the guard is just sitting there.

What we need to do is allow the teachers to be armed and encourage them to take defense courses specifically suited for the school environment. Paying for a $500 class per teacher would be a lot better than paying someone thousands of dollars a year to sit around.

It would also put more guns in the school to defend against attackers (i.e. if you have one guard, he could be the first target, and then no guards). Some schools may only have a few armed teachers, others may not have any unarmed, but the fact will be that there would be an immediate armed response against a threat against the kids.

BHP FAN
February 1, 2013, 04:37 PM
Skribs, what's needed is everything .... Claude's Tazers for Teachers program, armed guards, armed janitors, we have to lose the Gun Free Zone [free fire zone is more like what they are, anyway] US model, and go with Israel's much more intelligent model.

HoosierQ
February 1, 2013, 04:41 PM
We don't need armed guards in the schools. They will cost the taxpayers' money and basically waste their time, because unless there is a shooting, the guard is just sitting there.

What we need to do is allow the teachers to be armed and encourage them to take defense courses specifically suited for the school environment. Paying for a $500 class per teacher would be a lot better than paying someone thousands of dollars a year to sit around.

It would also put more guns in the school to defend against attackers (i.e. if you have one guard, he could be the first target, and then no guards). Some schools may only have a few armed teachers, others may not have any unarmed, but the fact will be that there would be an immediate armed response against a threat against the kids.
I do not see this ever flying. I think professional marshalls of some kind is the only way to go. No school system is going to arm teachers...at least not in any sort of urban (or maybe better described as non rural) setting. That's way too big of a shift of paradigm. Guarding soft targets is barely a paradigm shift at all. Hospitals all do it and it's not because they're full of drugs. They're soft targets chock full of people who are poorly positioned to defend themselves even if allowed to. We're a religious hospital corporation and we're crawling with armed guards...but our nurses and doctors and lab techs are not armed...but they're protected presumably. I'd feel better if we could carry mind you (I'm a desk jocky) but we certainly are making sure we have armed first responders 24/7. You should see our security HQ. Camera's on all the entrances, down all the hallways, and this proximity thingy that shows where each guard is on a 3D map of the place. I something happens at entrance six, you know there's a guy in hallway 7, etc.

hso
February 1, 2013, 04:43 PM
I'm more concerned how we keep the pedophiles out of the group.

Teachu2
February 1, 2013, 04:54 PM
We don't need armed guards in the schools. They will cost the taxpayers' money and basically waste their time, because unless there is a shooting, the guard is just sitting there.

What we need to do is allow the teachers to be armed and encourage them to take defense courses specifically suited for the school environment. Paying for a $500 class per teacher would be a lot better than paying someone thousands of dollars a year to sit around.

It would also put more guns in the school to defend against attackers (i.e. if you have one guard, he could be the first target, and then no guards). Some schools may only have a few armed teachers, others may not have any unarmed, but the fact will be that there would be an immediate armed response against a threat against the kids.
Skribs, I agree with you completely. I'm a high school teacher, former LEO, and a long-time CCW holder. We have armed, sworn campus police in my school district. Most of the schools have one. That one drives a marked patrol car and parks in front of the school.
Taft, CA is about 30 miles away. Different district, but again has an armed officer. He was off-campus when they had the shooting a couple of weeks ago. Pretty easy to tell if the cop is gone, 'cuz the car is gone.
There are half a dozen former LEOs or military on my campus, including two ROTC instructors. Our Board of Trustees says "No" to us carrying on campus. It would certainly be a deterrent if they reversed that publicly. If we had an unknown number of unidentified armed teachers on our 18 school sites, would that give pause to BGs? I sure believe so.

Skribs
February 1, 2013, 04:57 PM
Hoosier, there are several counties across the country where this system is already in place. Tell them it's never going to fly.

HSO, same principle as I suggest with violent offenders: if they are considered that big of a threat to our kids, they should be locked up. The cities that effectively ban registered offenders from any place kids would be pretty much force these people into an unguarded prison, anyway. Unfortunately, the law will not be able to stop first offenders or those who haven't been caught before, but then again nothing will.

Carl N. Brown
February 1, 2013, 05:42 PM
Clinton 2000 had the COPS in Schools program.

About a third of our schools have School Resource Officers or SROs, some since 1997.

http://www.timesnews.net/article/9055834/hawkins-county-sheriff-says-sros-would-be-more-than-armed-guards
Jeff Bobo, "Hawkins County sheriff says SROs would be more than 'armed guards'", Kingsport Times-News, 7 Jan 2012.

Hawkins County Sheriff Ronnie Lawson said school resource officers should be more than armed guards, and taxpayers will get their money’s worth if county leaders approved a plan to put a deputy in every county school. ...
"Our SROs are more than armed guards. They’ll be directing traffic before and after school. We would be able to implement regular anti-drug programs in every school, regular safety programs and have better outreach into every community in the county."

http://www.timesnews.net/article/9055822/tenn-union-against-teachers-carrying-guns
"Tennessee union against teachers carrying guns", Associated Press, 7 Jan 2012.

http://www.timesnews.net/article/9055878/sullivan-county-board-of-education-eyes-sros-for-all-schools
Rick Wagner, "Sullivan County Board of Education eyes SROs for all schools", Kingsport Times-News, 7 Jan 2013.
The Sullivan County Board of Education's aim is to have a school resource officer assigned to all 20 school campuses in the county, not just the four high schools that have had SROs since 1997.

http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9025899
Rain Smith, "Police officers kill gunman at Sullivan Central", Kingsport Times-News, 30 Aug 2010.

My summary: Suspect Gowan entered school with two loaded guns; angry and irate, he threatened the school principal with a gun. The school resource officer, Carolyn Gudger, drew her gun and engaged Cowan in a standoff, allowing the principal to escape. Cowan demanded her to give him her gun and tell him where the fire alarm was. (Fire alarm, hallways full of kids, a nut with his and her gun? No way! Gudger kept her gun on him.) With him following she backed into an empty pod; within two minutes two police entered the school in response and converged on the pod. (Sheriff's department has drilled on this; rapid response reduces body count.) They ordered Cowan to drop his gun, he pointed his gun at them, when he swung his gun back toward Gudger, they fired and killed him near the entrance to the school library where several students were in hiding. As routine where I live, the state bureau of investigation did a shooting review and presented results to the grand jury; the shooting was deemed justifiable.

savanahsdad
February 1, 2013, 05:53 PM
this should cost $0 in most places maybe not in some big cities with high crime or small towns with 3 or 4 cops but for most of us liveing in cities with 12k to 40k there are more than a few extra cops on duty, my home town of 19k has more than a few to spare, I just saw a fender bender about 2hs ago , there were 2 cops there in under 4min. on snow covered roads , and I'm sure more were on the way,
so in most places post a few of the extra cop (cost $0) , get rid of those "gun free zones" (cost$0) let CCW holders carry at schools (cost $0) let teachers carry at school (cost $0)
don't "Post" a gaurd (or target ) anywhere, have a cop walk the hall so the bad guy wont know where he is safe , 25 years ago when I was in High School we had a County Cop walking the halls, you never knew where he was , some days you might see him 3 or 4 times a day, other days not at all, but his cruser was parked out front every day ,and 25 years ago we had gangbangers and drive by shooting where I grew up but we were safe at school , and where I grew up the city + county was over 100K mid size city,
with no gun free zones the bad guys wont know who or if anyone might shoot back , again cost $0

savanahsdad
February 1, 2013, 06:00 PM
Carl: we had that back in the "80's" I was class of "87" and it must have worked , as I don't remember any school shootings ,, great post thanks !

Vern Humphrey
February 1, 2013, 06:18 PM
Here in Arkansas we just voted a bill out of committee that would encourage school teachers and school staff to be armed, and to provide a modest pay incentive to them to carry.

If you enjoyed reading about "Armed School Guard. How to?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!