Got an Anti to commit to a range day!


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cluck
February 1, 2013, 04:48 PM
After a long run campaign on FB against an old high school friend of mine, I wrangled her into committing to go to the gun club with me. She is VERY anti, has a law degree, and in my mind, is considered "dangerous to our cause". I used to never post on FB until I started seeing her sharing "Occupy the NRA" drivel. I couldn't hold my tongue. My intent is not to change her mind. That would be futile. My intent is to correct as much of the disinformation as possible, and expose the lies while showing her that firearms culture is:
A) Safe.
B) From ALL walks of life.
C) Safe.

My Pro2A Kungfu is very good. I can successfully defeat almost every kind of Anti2A attack. Facts, figures, and actual data also help me maintain the high road. I consider this a good opportunity to hold someone to truth and attempt to get them over their "hoplophobia", but I also consider it seriously, because I could be treading dangerously and the last thing I want to do is give an Anti some ammo. One asset. She admitted to me that her husband has been wanting to shoot firearms for about 15 years and he will be coming along. My wife is coming along also to give her the ladies perspective. She too is sharp in Pro2A.

I ask, Moderators, Members, and Pro2A Kungfu Masters, what are the most blatant lies that have been told from the other side that will help me undermine her argument?
I have two weeks to prepare for this and I have to be on my "A" game.
I might even start a thread called "Lightning round" where you all throw as many Anti attacks you have ever heard and see if I can deftly counter every one of them.
Thanks for the help.

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jamesbeat
February 1, 2013, 05:00 PM
AR's are extremely high powered and can be used to 'spray fire from the hip'.
Try to demonstrate that firing from the hip (unless you have some kind of special training and a LOT of practice) is extremely inaccurate.

Evil black rifles are somehow different to other semiauto rifles that hunters use.
Try to provide samples of both so that they can see that there is no functional difference.

Good people don't need standard capacity magazines.
Try a little role play. Get some ten round mags and ask them to imagine that they are defending their home against multiple armed intruders and see if they like the idea of having to do frequent mag changes in such a scenario.

ATLDave
February 1, 2013, 05:04 PM
Let the shooting do most of the work. There's a good chance that she'll feel the zen/flow concentration that it induces and at least see the appeal. Don't try to debate while you're on the range. Just shoot and teach safety and technique. Afterward you can discuss disagreements. JMHO, but I've done this a few times with some success.

cluck
February 1, 2013, 05:12 PM
No. No debate at the line. I told her I would treat her just like any first timer I was introducing to firearms. We'll save all debate for lunch conversation.

curlymaple42
February 1, 2013, 05:17 PM
Bring an M1 Garand so you can once and for all teach her the difference between a clip and a magazine! Or an Enfield, or similar clip fed rifle.

Good luck and we will be praying for you. Lol!



Sent from my DROID RAZR

Blackstone
February 1, 2013, 05:19 PM
It's good that you and her have been given this opportunity :)

miamivicedade
February 1, 2013, 05:26 PM
"You dont want to hunt with an AR-15 because it will blow up the animal"

cluck
February 1, 2013, 05:27 PM
AR's are extremely high powered and can be used to 'spray fire from the hip'.
Try to demonstrate that firing from the hip (unless you have some kind of special training and a LOT of practice) is extremely inaccurate.

Evil black rifles are somehow different to other semiauto rifles that hunters use.
Try to provide samples of both so that they can see that there is no functional difference.

Good people don't need standard capacity magazines.
Try a little role play. Get some ten round mags and ask them to imagine that they are defending their home against multiple armed intruders and see if they like the idea of having to do frequent mag changes in such a scenario.
Spray fire is completely ridiculous, totally hollywood, and is defeated by examples of when our own military and LEO's use that technique.......as in, NEVER.

We are going to a top notch range with all of the Class 3 niceties. I will be able to point out, "That is an Assault Rifle, THAT is a Sporting Rifle".
I'm also prepared to explain that a 30rd mag is standard and perfect "Emergency Preparation" examples of it's utility.

Chances are, she may fire a few from the Sig Mosquito, maybe even a few from the P238, but anything else.......? The grail would be to get her firing the PWS Mk107! Thats as "evil black gun" as it gets.

cluck
February 1, 2013, 05:38 PM
I also can't validate what I have read here that the police are not responsible for my safety.

In regards to the big whoppers that the antis are saying: it would help if I had information like, Who said it? When? Not necessary, but would improve my credibility.

dab102999
February 1, 2013, 05:39 PM
I don't know your shooting experiance but I would assume it to be pretty extensive. I don't know there shooting experiance but I would assume little to none. My approach would be to state with a lower caliber round. And load one at a time. Get them very comfortable shooting and go from there. Shoot different things then paper if you can. I myself have taught a few different people. None that I could say were strong antis but moreso people that just were never exposed to firearms, therefor scared of them. But even once they got comfortable I wouldn't let them try any rapid fire at all from anything but a good fire position. I would tell them this isn't. T.v. and that is not what guns are for.

As far as responces to them I would approach it as we are here to shoot and have fun. You sound like you know their game. You don't need an asnwer for everything just the major points. The rest will come together.

TRX
February 1, 2013, 05:46 PM
> No. No debate at the line. I told her I would treat her
> just like any first timer I was introducing to firearms.
> We'll save all debate for lunch conversation.

+100. Bring lots of ammo, and both some earplugs *and* muffs. A lot of new shooters are bothered more by the noise than the recoil.

If possible, go over basic safety and operation *before* you get to the range, where it's noisy and distracting.

HankR
February 1, 2013, 05:55 PM
From my experience,

Try not to be too preachy, let the fun soak in first. Especially if you get her husband hooked, you may have another chance.

I would try to borrow a .22 lr upper or a dedicated .22 lr AR pattern rifle, complete with adjustable stock. Show how the adjustable stock is so great for teaching smaller women and children to shoot. Show how the evil looks don't change the effect.

Take along an AR pattern in .223 and a traditional hunting rifle in .308 or 30-06. Arrange to have the cartridges lying side by side and show her that this measly thing in not too high powered for hunting, in many states it is considered illegal for hunting because it is underpowered. Depending on the rules at the range, shoot at some "exploding" targets with both rifles and show the different effects. (pop bottles full of water, over-ripe pumkins, etc -- don't forget to clean up the mess!) Perhaps also compare/contrast a pump 12 gauge. Let her shoot all of these, and she can feel that a 30-06 or 12 gauge has more oomph than the .223 even if you can't arrange the 'splodey targets.

Again in my experience, letting them have some fun with guns goes a long way towards diffusing the "why do you need" argument. And it's much more polite and PC than the correct answer;)

blarby
February 1, 2013, 05:59 PM
Fantastic.

All it takes is the trigger.

Good job !

Jackal1
February 1, 2013, 06:08 PM
Some good resources are:
FBI wounding factors .pdf (find it online) - discusses how bullets aren't magical unless the central nervous system is directly hit, otherwise most criminals are defeated by either just giving up at the sound of gunfire or massive blood loss which takes time.

Massad ayoobs book Stressfire 2: Advanced Combat Shotgun - mentions a criminal high on heroin that was able to fight back after absorbing 18 pellets of 00Buck, and was able to perform dynamic though non lifethreatening motions after absorbing 27 pellets of 00Buck & a single 38 Special. Note that each pellet of 00Buck is almost equivalent to a FMJ 9mm handgun bullet. This guy absorbed 28 shots and was still moving around. This is why high capacity handgun or rifle magazines are needed for the average citizen.

Gottlieb & Workmans book " armed self defense in a violent age" - 1981 ruling from U.S. District Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia in the 1975 case of "Warren v. District of Columbia" says it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." Translated that means the police are under no legal requirement to protect an individual citizen from harm. If you find yourself in danger, and the police do not come to the rescue in time, you are out of luck & on your own time.

BHP FAN
February 1, 2013, 06:14 PM
''Bring an M1 Garand so you can once and for all teach her the difference between a clip and a magazine! Or an Enfield, or similar clip fed rifle...''

Curlymaple is my hero!

somerandomguy
February 1, 2013, 06:16 PM
Take her to shoot one of those military style assault weapon AR-15's with the shoulder thing that goes up. ;)

Joking aside, do it. Might as well educate the anti while you do it that way she won't be so gullible. With a little luck you can probably convert her to our side. :)

doc2rn
February 1, 2013, 06:16 PM
My personal favorite, "those guns kill people!" I usually place said firearm in front of that person and yell "kill, maim, destroy"...to which I usually get a quisical look. Then you just say "nope" that type of inanimate object phobia is just what the anti's have worked it up to be. Fear of an inanimate object is irrational. People need to be accountable for their actions!
This is where I usually bring up the healthcare debate and how most states have pulled millions from the mental health fields.

cluck
February 1, 2013, 06:19 PM
Some good resources are:
FBI wounding factors .pdf (find it online) - discusses how bullets aren't magical unless the central nervous system is directly hit, otherwise most criminals are defeated by either just giving up at the sound of gunfire or massive blood loss which takes time.

Massad ayoobs book Stressfire 2: Advanced Combat Shotgun - mentions a criminal high on heroin that was able to fight back after absorbing 18 pellets of 00Buck, and was able to perform dynamic though non lifethreatening motions after absorbing 27 pellets of 00Buck & a single 38 Special. Note that each pellet of 00Buck is almost equivalent to a FMJ 9mm handgun bullet. This guy absorbed 28 shots and was still moving around. This is why high capacity handgun or rifle magazines are needed for the average citizen.

Gottlieb & Workmans book " armed self defense in a violent age" - 1981 ruling from U.S. District Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia in the 1975 case of "Warren v. District of Columbia" says it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." Translated that means the police are under no legal requirement to protect an individual citizen from harm. If you find yourself in danger, and the police do not come to the rescue in time, you are out of luck & on your own time.
Nice Jackal! All very good info.

jamesbeat
February 1, 2013, 06:35 PM
Right.
The only reason that I even said that you'd need a lot of training and practice was to cover my a$$ in case there was some weird esoteric use for spray fire that I wasn't aware of :D

I am partially referring to using a PGO shotgun, which should be slung lower than a shouldered arm, but even that isn't an ideal example because most agree that a shoulder stock is vastly superior.

I have changed my mind a little about my examples after reading the other replies.
I now agree that the 'preaching' should not take place during the shooting session.

Once they realise the fun they are having, they will perhaps get over their hoplophobia.
I think that the main driving force behind the anti mentality is the fear of the weapon itself, and the arguments they use are simply them trying to rationalize that fear.
If (when!) they have fun shooting, I'd say the battle will practically win itself.

cluck
February 1, 2013, 06:47 PM
Right.
The only reason that I even said that you'd need a lot of training and practice was to cover my a$$ in case there was some weird esoteric use for spray fire that I wasn't aware of :D

I am partially referring to using a PGO shotgun, which should be slung lower than a shouldered arm, but even that isn't an ideal example because most agree that a shoulder stock is vastly superior.

I have changed my mind a little about my examples after reading the other replies.
I now agree that the 'preaching' should not take place during the shooting session.

Once they realise the fun they are having, they will perhaps get over their hoplophobia.
I think that the main driving force behind the anti mentality is the fear of the weapon itself, and the arguments they use are simply them trying to rationalize that fear.
If (when!) they have fun shooting, I'd say the battle will practically win itself.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate all of the input I can get. It's why I started the thread. If I reply in a "counter" manner, it's because I am refining all of my arguments. I suspect her husband will have more fun than she will, but at the very least, education reduces ignorance which reduces fear.

jamesbeat
February 1, 2013, 06:57 PM
Absolutely, I took no offence whatsoever.
That's the pitfall of trying to apply reason to an unreasonable argument :D

Fryerpower
February 1, 2013, 07:09 PM
Quick review material:
About assault weapons: http://www.assaultweapon.info/
About the riddle of the gun: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun
The gun ban that misfired: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324081704578235460300469292.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
The police have no duty to protect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

-Jim

Waywatcher
February 1, 2013, 07:12 PM
The above piece linked from WSJ is actually really, really good. Thanks for sharing, Fryerpower.

OptimusPrime
February 1, 2013, 07:34 PM
Focus on having fun and staying safe.
That's the best argument you can have, asking "wasn't that fun? How about this gun? Want to try that one again?" Fun fun fun.
And if arguments do come up; fight data with data and fight perception with perception.

RCArms.com
February 1, 2013, 07:38 PM
Love taking antis to the range for the first time

Points I've Learned over the years.

start small. 22LR.
This is especially true for younger and female first time shooters. You want them to see how fun it can be and use bullseye targets only. No B21 or silhouettes.

NO über high power stuff. Check your testerone at the door. You are not looking impress the new shooter by giving them a 300 WinMag or .50AE that they will remember how bad it hurt them. Save the more powerful stuff for their second range trip.

Bring an evil assault weapon with you, preferable an AR. Don't tell them it's an assault weapon till after they shoot it. Let them enjoy the ergos, accuracy, and fun factor before you tell them they just shot an assault weapon.

NO TALK about power, knockdown, wounding efficiency, usefulness for hunting/defense. That conversation will be lost on a first time shooter and to be candid, may do more harm than good.

NO talk about mag capacities. Bring low caps and high caps. If your running hi caps, down load them to 20 or so, but still refer to them as standard 30 rd mags. The message here is "gee I was shooting with the 30 rd mags, but the rifle was going empty often".

Make the range trip about THEM. You can get some trigger time for yourself later, keep your guest at the bench and shooting as long as they are interested. A 22 AR or a Sig 522 works awesome for this. My 522 has become a favorite for new shooters that I take to the range.

Concentrate All your effort into showing them a fun and safe day at the range. You want them to leave with a smile on their face and maybe some new perspectives to think about. The ultimate win is for them to ask you if you would bring them to the range again.

This battle is one with one new shooter at a time.

Bring eyes and ears for them. NEW in package and gift it to them at the end of the day for your next range trip.

Make sure you offer their targets to take home if they want.

Important: make sure you are not positioned next to some mall ninja or tactical wanna be on the line. If you can, ask the range staff to create distance between you and other shooters if possible as you have a new shooter with you.

Oh yeah, and HAVE FUN

Grassman
February 1, 2013, 07:45 PM
Don't adjust the stock on your AR too quick, that stuff is scary. :neener:

avs11054
February 1, 2013, 07:50 PM
The police have no duty to protect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_...ct_of_Columbia


I'd never seen this one until today. Also try Castle Rock vs. Gonzales. A mother of three daughters kept calling PD because her husband was violating restraining order protecting her and her daughters. The officers never arrested him beacuse she had let him violate the order before. He ended up killing the three girls and then went to the police station and died in a shootout w/ PD.

For future arguments, I'll have two cases to cite.

Fryerpower
February 1, 2013, 07:54 PM
What RCArms.com said in post #25, it is all about safety and fun.

Know your stuff in case SHE brings it up, but it is all about safety and fun.

Jim

savanahsdad
February 1, 2013, 07:56 PM
take your evel black gun or any other auto-loader and shoot some groups and shoot them slow..... it seems the gun-grabers think all auto loader are for is fast shooting , much like sports cars, just because they go 200mph dosen't meen everyone drives them that way , same with guns

cluck
February 1, 2013, 08:09 PM
Quick review material:
About assault weapons: http://www.assaultweapon.info/
About the riddle of the gun: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun
The gun ban that misfired: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324081704578235460300469292.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
The police have no duty to protect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

-Jim
Yeah! These are great! Sam's article condensed much of the data I already had. I'm not at all worried about the range time. I'll just do what I naturally do and everything should be great. If we arrive early, we should have a pretty good range choice. They have an awesome live fire simulator which has enormous fun factor.
This thread is my worksheet for this "project" so thank you all very much.
*wiki link is no good?*

bergmen
February 1, 2013, 08:10 PM
I just introduced two new shooters to handguns this past Sunday. He had only handled rifles once for a cursory role in a play, she had never seen or handled a firearm at all.

Here's how I went about it:

1) I began by stating that loaded firearms coupled with irresponsible handling (negligent, criminal, etc.) can result in serious injury or death. Hundreds of people (I didn't have or need the actual statistic) are injured or killed each year by such action.

2) Having said that, the component that creates the safety issue is the handler, NOT the gun. A loaded gun can be set on a dresser pointed right at you and will not go off by itself, it takes the interaction of a human to do so.

3) Safety is what prevents negligent shootings. I will teach the four safety rules that MUST be followed at all times a person grasps a firearm, and following these religiously will result in safe handling. I relate that my brother and I have been actively shooting for over fifty years with zero safety issues because we always, ALWAYS followed the safety rules.

4) I use driving as an analogy. A car parked in the driveway presents no safety risk until a driver gets behind the wheel, starts it up and puts it into "Drive". Once that is done, the driver must devote the necessary level of attention to avoid a wreck or other safety issue until the car is parked and the engine shut off.

5) Zipping open a gun case is analogous to shifting into "Drive" and you stay in "Drive" until the gun case is zipped closed.

6) Safety supersedes all actions regardless of anything else and is never compromised no matter how well other skills are being practiced.

I took my time and allowed 2-3 hours for everything. This included detailed descriptions of single-action revolvers, double-action revolvers, striker-fired semi-autos, DA autos and a quick explanation of SA autos. Also a quick description of how cartridges fire, etc. I encouraged the taking of notes or even capturing on video if they so desired. All of the handguns were handled, actions worked, dry fired, unloaded check protocol, etc.

After the shooting session (which went excellently, very safe, very accurate shooting) I followed up with an e-mail with pictures and thorough descriptions of the firearms they both shot (S&W K-38 .38 Special, S&W 442 Airweight .38 Special, Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum - that he shot, she didn't - Glock G19 9mm, Glock G36 .45 acp).

We took our time and didn't rush any part of this. We stopped shooting when we did everything we wanted to do.

They left ecstatic, extremely enthused. They couldn't thank me enough and they couldn't stop talking about it for two days afterward. Visiting a gun shop is next and I offered to tag along if they wanted (they wanted).

As others have suggested I would stick to the safety, descriptions of the firearms/calibers and shooting techniques.

Both of my "students" were fascinated by how old the designs and calibers were going back to before 1900 in many cases, early 1900 for the rest.

I have done this about five times already. All of my previous "students" are firearms owners, LTC holders, NRA members and local gun club members. I expect my latest "students" to do so as well.

It's all good.

Dan

Fryerpower
February 1, 2013, 08:20 PM
*wiki link is no good?*

It works for me, but you can go to google or wiki and search Warren vs District of Columbia.

-Jim

Ms_Dragon
February 1, 2013, 08:43 PM
Use the Australian example that Australian women are 3 times more likely than their American counterparts to be the victims of rape and assault since our gun restrictions were put in place.

With more and more women choosing to live on their own and pursue careers it has become a necessity for a woman to take her personal safely into her own hands.

No, the police are not going to be there physically, in that moment, to stop a rape or a home invasion or a brutal assault from happening to her.

In a lot of cases the unarmed woman can only hope that she is left with the capacity to actually call the police and get help after an assault and not left bleeding, concussed or shot.
Or perhaps someone like the neighbors heard the ruckus and called it into the police.

Fryerpower
February 1, 2013, 08:48 PM
Thanks for the segue Ms Dragon!

I cannot find a link to this letter. I don't know how true it is. It just rings true...

"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)


Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.

If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force.

Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion.
Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force.
You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations.
These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a armed mugger to do his job.
That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury.
This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst.
The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter.
It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.) "

Jim

tactikel
February 1, 2013, 09:05 PM
Sorry wrong thread.

jamesbeat
February 1, 2013, 09:05 PM
That WSJ article was awesome.
I found it particularly pertinent that he said that any increased sense of safety after a gun ban would be a false one.
This struck a chord with me. The antis are all for making us 'safer', but their policies actually do the opposite of that. They are so irresponsible, because not only do they want to make everything less safe, they are also giving a false sense of security.

How reprehensible to put the public in danger and at the same time tell them that they are safer.

radar1972
February 1, 2013, 09:08 PM
Don't try to overdo it the first time out. If you can demonstrate to her and convince her that a semi-automatic rifle (no matter what it looks like) fires one bullet for each trigger pull, then you will have accomplished a great deal.

wickedsprint
February 1, 2013, 09:10 PM
If it hasn't been said yet, I'd recommend dressing nice. Tucked polo and slacks.

Fryerpower
February 1, 2013, 09:14 PM
If it hasn't been said yet, I'd recommend dressing nice. Tucked polo and slacks.
And if you have a CCW permit and it is legal, carry one or more of your handguns concealed. Many people don't understand how easy it is to carry for your own protection without having to drastically change the way you dress. Same goes for your wife if she has a CCW permit.

Jim

Fred_G
February 1, 2013, 09:19 PM
If it hasn't been said yet, I'd recommend dressing nice. Tucked polo and slacks.
Highly recommend a t shirt... Hot brass and Polo shirts can be, well uncomfortable. Might mention that to the new shooters as well.

Some great comments and suggestions so far.

wickedsprint
February 1, 2013, 09:37 PM
Highly recommend a t shirt... Hot brass and Polo shirts can be, well uncomfortable. Might mention that to the new shooters as well.

Some great comments and suggestions so far.

Never had this problem but I guess it's possible.

Fred_G
February 1, 2013, 09:58 PM
Never had this problem but I guess it's possible.
I have. Had a 9mm brass sized burn on my chest for a week. Want the new shooters to have a good time, not get a burn. ;))

Fryerpower
February 1, 2013, 10:21 PM
Polo shirt with a t-shirt under it.

I caught a hot casing between my shooting glasses and my eye brow once. Not fun...

Jim

gp911
February 1, 2013, 11:15 PM
Hot brass dropping into your collar hurts too. The advice on this thread is excellent. No big boomers that could hurt or scare them, but a variety of small to medium power stuff of varying types. Making the trip all about them is essential, you want them to enjoy themselves and honestly it sounds like her husband may be converted quickly and help soften her hard line position, plus it's great that it will be their first trip to the range together. Just have fun and expect to have a great lunch conversation afterward. Best of luck to you, keep us posted!

gunsandreligion
February 2, 2013, 12:14 AM
As one poster said, try to stay away from others at the range who could portray a negative image of the type of people that are into shooting. i.e. mall ninjas, people who may "help" you train them, and those exibiting unsafe actions.

Isaac-1
February 2, 2013, 12:18 AM
If it were me I would try to divide this into core components, maybe have them over for a couples dinner before the trip to the range. While not at the range with other people in a relaxed setting cover safe gun handling, and let them hold and handle some unloaded guns, let them get a little comfortable touching the "evil" things in a relaxed social environment, don't over do it show them maybe half a dozen or so guns of various types (assuming you have a reasonable collection), start with the wood grain "hunting looking" ones, ideally I would pick something like a revolver and a semi auto handgun, along with a basic bolt or lever rifle, a pump or semi auto shotgun, and if you have one end with the evil black gun of your choice. When you go to the range work through the list in a similar order, also if possible use some type of reactive target, water jugs, etc.

bergmen
February 2, 2013, 12:45 PM
I have. Had a 9mm brass sized burn on my chest for a week. Want the new shooters to have a good time, not get a burn. ;))

I recommend a baseball type hat. This will cover the shooting glasses and prevent hot brass from going down the shirt (generally).

Dan

Sam Boca
February 2, 2013, 01:29 PM
Just take her. Take a revolver, a semi-auto handgun and a semi-auto rifle with standard capacity mags. Explain that a .357 magnum is more powerful than most semi-auto handgun calibers. Heavy concentration on safety and showing her proper technique. I wouldn't take too many guns because people can get overwhelmed with information overload. Try not to go when there are a lot of other people there. Let her make up her own mind based on the experience.

cluck
February 2, 2013, 01:58 PM
Good call. I usually go to the range pretty casual. This if definitely one for dress casual.

cluck
February 2, 2013, 02:00 PM
LOL! My wife wore a v-neck tee to the range once. ONCE! cute little triangle burn right on the sternum.

cluck
February 2, 2013, 02:04 PM
Use the Australian example that Australian women are 3 times more likely than their American counterparts to be the victims of rape and assault since our gun restrictions were put in place.

With more and more women choosing to live on their own and pursue careers it has become a necessity for a woman to take her personal safely into her own hands.

No, the police are not going to be there physically, in that moment, to stop a rape or a home invasion or a brutal assault from happening to her.

In a lot of cases the unarmed woman can only hope that she is left with the capacity to actually call the police and get help after an assault and not left bleeding, concussed or shot.
Or perhaps someone like the neighbors heard the ruckus and called it into the police.
Thank you for this one! Stats about women are perfect. Does Austrailia have a crime stat database like the FBI?

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