insanity at local gun shop!


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larry starling
February 1, 2013, 08:25 PM
Well on a whim I decided to venture to one of the more expensive gun stores in town. And low and behold plenty of pmags and AR's in stock. Unfortunately they seem to want to GOUGE way over MSRP for everything. Yep $40 Pmags and $1900 Bushmaster AR's. Best of all they have decided that due to the high demand for anything with a high Cap magazine that they will no longer offer layaway on those items. anything not High Cap still OK to layaway. So I guess I will have to add them to the list of stores I will never purchase anything from again. FWIW they must have had 100+ Pmags in stock.:eek:

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Carter
February 1, 2013, 08:27 PM
I went to a small little gunshop the other day and pmags were $50, gold dots were $70, and the ammo just got worse from there.


Its pretty normal right now. Sadly.

oneounceload
February 1, 2013, 09:04 PM
So, they are selling items at market price right now? What's wrong with that? They should sell them below market value so someone can come and buy them cheap and then resell them for a profit?

And when he does that, and he either can't get more inventory, or the wholesale cost has risen so he can't buy new inventory, then what? He then goes out of business.

WTBguns10kOK
February 1, 2013, 09:09 PM
This is not insanity. This is normal. Welcome to market fluctuation.

radar1972
February 1, 2013, 09:16 PM
It's called free-market capitalism where prices are set by the forces of supply and demand.

SaxonPig
February 1, 2013, 09:17 PM
Cashing in. May not be able to sell them next month.

I recall the panic of 1994. All guns and ammo flew off the shelves. Then the gun companies, ammo companies, and retailers had almost no business for the next two years as nobody wanted anything more at that point.

Grmlin
February 1, 2013, 09:29 PM
P-Mags for $40 and $50 wow that's cheap, the local shop here is over $70 for them, S&W sport $1800, AK variants over $1200. These shops must not be direct P-Mag distributers.

armedaccountant
February 1, 2013, 09:32 PM
Actually the problem is that it isn't a free market. When outside pressure or controls are put on the market it is no longer "free" and therefore is is out of balance. I am not faulting the dealer or the buyers in this market. Just pointing out this is not a free market.

Cesiumsponge
February 1, 2013, 09:48 PM
Vote with your dollars and shop with your feet.

Unless you want the power to force retailers to sell things at a price you're comfortable with.

k_dawg
February 1, 2013, 09:56 PM
3 choices:

Sell at normal price, be out of stock immediately.

Sell at increased price, customers can design if they need or just want it.

Sell at normal price, but limit the number. Works okay on ammo, less on firearms.

larry starling
February 1, 2013, 10:01 PM
The only problem with all the points made on here so far is that other stores in my market appear to have kept there prices somewhat stable and so far while there resupply has been slow it appearers to have remained steady. Just a observation on my part.

David E
February 1, 2013, 10:01 PM
Well on a whim I decided to venture to one of the more expensive gun stores in town. And low and behold plenty of pmags and AR's in stock. Unfortunately they seem to want to GOUGE way over MSRP for everything. Yep $40 Pmags and $1900 Bushmaster AR's.

Quite an accusation there, without knowing all the facts. Do you know much THE STORE paid for the Pmags? How about the AR? If you don't, then why are you claiming they're gouging?

$40 for a Pmag seems like a pretty good deal right now, especially since most everyone is out of them.

The LGS here told me that their distributors cancelled existing orders and re-did them with higher prices. Something that they bought for $20 and sold for $30 was now costing them $35. They put a price tag of $45 on it (a lower percentage markup) and get accused of gouging by uninformed people who post it on the Internet. :rolleyes:

larry starling
February 1, 2013, 10:10 PM
Disregard!

Cesiumsponge
February 1, 2013, 10:15 PM
One of my LGS is still selling at normal prices. The shelves are bare and you're free to jump on the waiting list though. You can do that or pay more for product that's in stock elsewhere. Your choice!

Teachu2
February 1, 2013, 10:19 PM
The best price in town on anything is always with the seller that doesn't have any in stock....

larry starling
February 1, 2013, 10:25 PM
FWIW went to the Flea market just to kill some time. And found plenty of GI magazines for $12. Has anyone else considered going and looking at there local flea markets?

akv3g4n
February 1, 2013, 10:33 PM
Yep. LGS by me has steel GI style mags with green followers for $20. That's all I used before the current panic and never had any issues. I can't justify the extra cost of the pmag personally.

Cesiumsponge
February 1, 2013, 10:43 PM
I picked up Okay Industries USGI tan follower mags for $8 ea. I thought I was getting the older green follower mags too so it was a pleasant surprise. Source is dry now but not everyone is raising prices.

blkbrd666
February 1, 2013, 10:44 PM
That's all I used before the current panic and never had any issues.

Same here. Have lots of GI issue mags that were free and have never had any malfunctions. What is the big draw with pmags? I guess I need to get one and see what it's all about.

Grmlin
February 1, 2013, 11:37 PM
Didn't PMAG put all their distributers on notice about jacking up the price of their mags, if they did they would loose their distribution privileges.

slamfirev10
February 2, 2013, 02:27 AM
Same here. Have lots of GI issue mags that were free and have never had any malfunctions. What is the big draw with pmags? I guess I need to get one and see what it's all about.

i have a slightly used 1 for you for only $150.00 plus shipping and paypal fee :)

tarosean
February 2, 2013, 02:50 AM
Quite an accusation there, without knowing all the facts. Do you know much THE STORE paid for the Pmags? How about the AR? If you don't, then why are you claiming they're gouging?

$40 for a Pmag seems like a pretty good deal right now, especially since most everyone is out of them.

The LGS here told me that their distributors cancelled existing orders and re-did them with higher prices. Something that they bought for $20 and sold for $30 was now costing them $35. They put a price tag of $45 on it (a lower percentage markup) and get accused of gouging by uninformed people who post it on the Internet.


Hmmm... kind of odd that every single thing Ive purchased over the last few weeks. Guns, Mags, Ammo and AR parts were at the same prices pre- Dec 15th.

PoPo22
February 2, 2013, 04:14 AM
I constantly hear BS justifications from dealers who want to triple their investment and blame someone else. Its pretty simple and certainly nothing new. Decide what your priorities are and where your principles and loyalties lie. If you are so impatient that you are willing to support this type of business practice then its just like politics, you reap what you sow. Good luck.

savanahsdad
February 2, 2013, 05:01 AM
Hmmm... kind of odd that every single thing Ive purchased over the last few weeks. Guns, Mags, Ammo and AR parts were at the same prices pre- Dec 15th.
same here , just picked up some 380auto ammo the other day for $15 per 50 "brass reloadable" (was to lazy to load my own and was on my way to the range and I was low on 380auto) a few weeks ago I picked up 4 P-mags with dust covers for $15.00 each out in Montana, Mills Fleet Farm has 7.62X54 tuna cans for $109.00 same as last summer

Snowdog
February 2, 2013, 05:54 AM
It's called free-market capitalism where prices are set by the forces of supply and demand.

This.

After seeing what XM855 was selling for on Gunbroker, I decided to put 500 rounds up for auction and set the starting bid at exactly what I paid 12 months earlier with no reserve and see what happened. It sold for nearly $500.

There's nothing ethically wrong with that, nothing at all.

csd4682
February 2, 2013, 07:24 AM
My local gun shop has a stack of dpms lower parts kits for 199.95 doesnt event come with a grip. I was pleased to see that they have not sold a single one after 2 weeks. Made me sick to see that price on them. They are known for being expensive but thats just crazy. Im glad others also see it that way and are not buying them. I understand raising prices somewhat in this market but 200 bucks for a little package of plastic and springs is just bending over your fellow man. I will not be upset if they sit there for years and give them a constant reminder of how bad they were hoping to screw people.

On the flip side of things there are still some decent dealers out there. Code red firearms has held firm on their lowers at 149.00 shipped. They found out that people were buying them and then listing them on gunbroker for 350+ so they limited purchases to 3. They announced on their website and facebook that they did not condone the gouging and that was why they would be limting the purchase ammounts unless they know its a group buy or a dealer is buying them.

DeepSouth
February 2, 2013, 07:30 AM
This is not insanity. This is normal. Welcome to market fluctuation.


Yep.

Funny thing, since the panic I have auctually SAVED money. I haven't bought anything.;) Now when stuff comes back down......the old wallet may be hurting while restocking.

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 07:52 AM
Cashing in. May not be able to sell them next month.

I recall the panic of 1994. All guns and ammo flew off the shelves. Then the gun companies, ammo companies, and retailers had almost no business for the next two years as nobody wanted anything more at that point.
Good. That'll teach em.

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 07:55 AM
Hmmm... kind of odd that every single thing Ive purchased over the last few weeks. Guns, Mags, Ammo and AR parts were at the same prices pre- Dec 15th.
Same here. Sounds like some are indeed gouging.

Went on Thursday: 556 $9.99 for box of 20

Complete lower for $399

9mm for $12.99 for box of 50.

So, why are some stores exponentially higher? Cuz they're greedy. At least my LGS cares about the customer more than JUST the profit.

Fremmer
February 2, 2013, 10:18 AM
Thanks Obama! Now that's hope and change we can all believe in! You're great!

bikerdoc
February 2, 2013, 10:38 AM
The LGS here told me that their distributors cancelled existing orders and re-did them with higher prices. Something that they bought for $20 and sold for $30 was now costing them $35. They put a price tag of $45 on it (a lower percentage markup) and get accused of gouging by uninformed people who post it on the Internet.

My LGS got his order canceled and was not resupplied- reason was he did not do enough volume.

jcwit
February 2, 2013, 10:39 AM
There was a time in history when the retail stores were all local and looked out for their customers, that period is past. The attitude now is all how much can I get, and this holds true not only for retail but for the masses, it's why we have the welfare problem we have.

With that said, it makes no never mind to ME as I stocked up years ago. Plinking .22 RF ammo, $8.00 a brick. Primers, less than $10.00 a thousand. Powder, approx $7/$8 bucks a lb. Have way more than enough to satisfy my hobby.

David E
February 2, 2013, 01:25 PM
Hmmm... kind of odd that every single thing Ive purchased over the last few weeks. Guns, Mags, Ammo and AR parts were at the same prices pre- Dec 15th.

Pray tell, where might that be?

David E
February 2, 2013, 01:42 PM
I constantly hear BS justifications from dealers....

Yet some, perhaps even most, of the justifications have merit.

Does that mean every shop is looking out for the customer? Of course not, but if a store has $40 on a Pmag or $12.99 for a 20 rd box of .223, it doesn't mean they've jacked up all the prices.

The store I referenced is long out of PMags, as they can't find any to replace their stock. They are one of the few places to have 9mm in stock but they are still selling it at their pre-panic prices.

They found some 5.56 (as opposed to .223) coming in from Israel and bought it up. Their price was $11.99 per box because they were able to send a truck to the dock to pick it up. It seems some people think that unless they sell it for the pre-panic $8.99 price, they are gouging. :rolleyes:

David E
February 2, 2013, 01:49 PM
Same here. Sounds like some are indeed gouging.

Went on Thursday: Complete lower for $399

So, why are some stores exponentially higher? Cuz they're greedy. At least my LGS cares about the customer more than JUST the profit.

Sounds like YOUR store, judging by the price on that lower. (unless, of course, it cost THEM more money than before....which is my point)

tarosean
February 2, 2013, 01:59 PM
Pray tell, where might that be?


Champion Firearms
Hunter Guns & Ammo
Academy
Gander mountain
MidwayUSA
DSG Arms
Botach Tactical

spyder994
February 2, 2013, 02:48 PM
I walked in my LGS this morning to see if they had any ammo available and was second in line when I walked in. The guy in front of me was being charged $30 for 50 rounds of American Eagle .38 special solids, so I decided to walk out. I'll just wait till Walmart or Cabelas start to get the stuff back in stock :) .

David E
February 2, 2013, 04:19 PM
Champion Firearms
Hunter Guns & Ammo
Academy
Gander mountain
MidwayUSA
DSG Arms
Botach Tactical

Midway is out. Academy has a 3 box limit, but you can only buy ONE box per caliber. They had 10 boxes of American Eagle for $12.99 per 20 rd box. Not pre-panic prices or policies.

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 04:24 PM
Sounds like YOUR store, judging by the price on that lower. (unless, of course, it cost THEM more money than before....which is my point)
No doubt. But it's a Smith Sport lower, in like new condition (might be new) and lacks a removable trigger guard.

I'd spend that for the Smith Sport lower waaaayyyy before I'd go $600 for a New Frontier lower on Armslist.

Wish it WAS my store...not that lucky.

CLP
February 2, 2013, 05:30 PM
Actually the problem is that it isn't a free market. When outside pressure or controls are put on the market it is no longer "free" and therefore is is out of balance. I am not faulting the dealer or the buyers in this market. Just pointing out this is not a free market.
An example of "outside pressure or control" would be gov't regulations. This is simply supply and demand economics. Doesn't mean you have to like it if you find yourself a consumer on a pricing incline. On the other hand, if you have ever been aware of how tenuous 2A rights actually are in this country and bought dozens of mags, ammo, etc., anticipating this day- then you're probably relieved.

CLP
February 2, 2013, 05:31 PM
Champion Firearms
Hunter Guns & Ammo
Academy
Gander mountain
MidwayUSA
DSG Arms
Botach Tactical
Don't forget the good people at Brownell's.

jrdolall
February 2, 2013, 06:10 PM
This is not price gouging. Raising prices on staples like milk, bread and gasoline during a natural disaster is price gouging IF the cost to replenish those goods at the store level remain the same. For the vast majority of us our gun and ammo purchases are not really necessities but are luxuries we buy when the fancy strikes us or we have extra cash on hand.
This is simply supply and demand. I can give you a current example.
Right now the cost of leafy vegetables out of California, Arizona and Florida is extrememly high due to weather which has limited availability. Large distributors like Sysco or US Foods normally have contract prices on, say iceberg lettuce, for about $10 per case. Due to lower availability just about all major contracts have had "escalotor clauses" kick in. Walmart and Kroger are included in this higher price. In nearly all instances they are also being pro-rated so instead of 1,000 cases they may get 500 from their supplier. They are all calling every other supplier and being real friendly about how they want to start doing business with them and really just need this new supplier to "step up" and help them out.

Virtually every supplier is in the same situation. They have limited supplies due to low yileds and they need to do all they can to cover existing volumes so they tell walmart to take a hike. Walmart now has 500 cases of lettuce at double the normal price at a time when every other grocery store is limited on supply as well. Walmart doubles the price of their lettuce for two reasons. They want their normal lettuce to be available to their normal customers and they want to cover their additional costs.

Companies like Sysco will actually refuse to sell lettuce to a customer that does not normally buy lettuce from them. They only got 5k of the 10k they needed to cover their existing customer base that buys lettuce every week so they won't sell a customer that is trying to pick them off. I imagine LGS are trying to do something similar.

The growers appear to be making lots of money with prices being double what they were 3 months ago but that is not true. They have lost much product and left it in the field because of poor quality so their yield per acre is often less than half what is normal. Instead of getting 2,000 cases of lettuce per acre they are getting 900 cartons so the doubled price really isn't making them any more money. We can talk percentages and mark-up all day long but at the end of the day it only matters how many dollars you put in the bank.

PS I firmly believe there are plenty of businesses out there that are price gouging.

JonnyGringo
February 2, 2013, 07:08 PM
Well these shortages do separate the dedicated shooters from the talkers alright.

Fishslayer
February 2, 2013, 07:41 PM
i have a slightly used 1 for you for only $150.00 plus shipping and paypal fee :)

Ahh! Musta got it from "less expensive than soil!" :D

I would happily pay $40 per for a few Mini-30 rebuild kits...

Texpatriate
February 2, 2013, 07:53 PM
Been into several gun stores in West Tennessee and here is what I have found, some encouraging, some disgusting:

L&A Firearms in Union City- they wanted $2499 for a Colt 6920 and $750 for an M&P Shield. All of their tacticool rifles were wearing jacked up price tags. DPMS's for $2000+ and even Norinco SKS's for $500+:banghead:


Gunslinglers in Dresden, TN- Had used gen 3 Glocks for $688, Winchester bulk packs of .22LR for $51.99. When I asked the lady behind the counter about the high price on the .22LR ammo, she responded breathlessly "oh sir, those are hollow points". I laughed and walked out of the store. :cuss:


Final Flight Outfitters in Union City- They were all out of .22LR, and most range ammo, but all prices looked to be the same as they would have been 2 months ago, including prices on remaining standard capacity mags and ammo.:)


Fortunately I am not desperately looking for anything right now, but when all of this is over, I will make it a point to remember who did what.

moto_stevo
February 2, 2013, 08:10 PM
I just shot a .22 rifle match today. Noticed a box of federal .22 lr value box on the shelf for $55.
Glad I had ammo

thorazine
February 2, 2013, 08:37 PM
gold dots were $70

You think that is bad...

Extreme Shock Ammunition jumped to $1,000.00 a box!!

http://www.extremeshockusa.com/gfx_splash/top_2.jpg

tarosean
February 3, 2013, 12:51 AM
Don't forget the good people at Brownell's.

They are on my timeout list right now.. They irked me a while ago with a return/exchange that just sat there for about a month with out any communication from them.

Ignition Override
February 3, 2013, 12:56 AM
Most price bubbles deflate. It's just a matter of when and what rate.
If retailers sell at market prices, they why wait until panic cools and less profit can be made?

If my approx. $250 Yugo Mauser 48A is ever valued at $300-400 in Today's dollars, then here we go (FTF only).
It will be cherished in a warm, loving home, as many recent AR acquisitions are.

tarosean
February 3, 2013, 01:00 AM
Midway is out. Academy has a 3 box limit, but you can only buy ONE box per caliber. They had 10 boxes of American Eagle for $12.99 per 20 rd box. Not pre-panic prices or policies.

Just be diligent about checking places online. Midway is restocking quite often but it doesnt last more than an 1hr or so.

JohnKSa
February 3, 2013, 01:01 AM
One LGS in my area is selling Glock 19 mags for $120.

traderpats
February 3, 2013, 02:08 AM
And before I forget: "High capacity" is a liberal term meant to instill fear in the unwashed masses so lets try to get away from sounding like liberals. Most all ar type rifles come with a "standard capacity" magazine in the 30 rd variety.

Like most other firearm related stuff, I'm a stickler on using proper terminology.... :)

David E
February 3, 2013, 12:44 PM
Don't forget the good people at Brownell's.

Who are out of stock!

Woman goes to the butcher and asks how much his roast beef is. "$5 a pound," he says.

The woman says, "But the butcher down the street only charges $4 a pound."

The butcher asks, "Then why not buy it from him?"

She replies, "Because he's out."

"I see," said the butcher. "Well, when I'm out, I only charge $3 a pound."

herkyguy
February 3, 2013, 03:13 PM
LGS which is also a pawn shop is selling .223 for $1 per round. The owner laughs/brags about how much he sells. He also only keeps one AK and a few ARs on the shelf at any given time to keep the panic going. Prices are OK on non AWB guns, but you still need to know what you're looking for or you'll get ripped off. Walmart is completely out of everything.

But the silver lining is that I have spread my wings a bit and tracked down two much smaller mom and pop styled gun/hunt/outdoors places that are truly friendly and charge reasonable prices.

Had we not hit this panic, I'd probably still be in the dark regarding the smaller shops. so some good has come from all of it perhaps.

351 WINCHESTER
February 3, 2013, 03:29 PM
We have many gunshops where I live. My lgs sells at normal prices. The biggest gun shop we have (whose name I will not mention) sells at whatever the market will bear. Needless to say they have forever lost my business and the business of many of my friends.

Droid noob
February 3, 2013, 03:44 PM
The reputable shops have kept their prices the same. The only thing they've done is limit how much you can buy at one time. For example, 2 box limit for each caliber, only 2 mags per transaction, etc. I'd rather deal with that than these other guys gouging. One store is selling Glock mags for 50 bucks each. I went down the road and picked up two at $34 each instead.

To each his own on "market value". I know I'm watching who gouges and will be shopping elsewhere when things get better.

kfox
February 3, 2013, 04:02 PM
We have one local shop that had AR's advertised for a Saturday sale for $799 on Thursday then when Saturday arrived he changed them to $1799. His store your choice to buy or not but if I had went after one for $799 and he told me sorry they are now $1799 it would be the last time I was in his store. I will still purchase from him as he did not do this to me. But it will be less and only what is a good price where before I considered him a GOUGER I would have paid a little more just to get it. Another local shop still sells his AR's for the before price as he gets them in, I believe I will purchase a little more there. (He had 8# Varget Saturday for $149)
:)

Grmlin
February 3, 2013, 04:16 PM
From just a couple of the pawn shop/gun stores I have looked into they are selling used guns (all) above new prices and new at astronomical prices. Got kicked out when the sales person said isn't that a deal $469 on a used Walther P-22 my reply, I could purchase that same model brand new for about $370 + tax just down the road didn't sit well. I guess I should have just stopped at that and not commented on the rest of their stock but the only thing even close to actual market price was a Mosin Nagant for $150

goldie
February 3, 2013, 04:24 PM
You want insanity from a local gun shop ? how about 6500 for a 223 scar, 3100 for a sig556 scm.Didnt dare look at the IMI Galil in 308 :what:

oneounceload
February 3, 2013, 04:25 PM
JohnKSA
Are they actually SELLING those mags for $120, or are they ASKING $120 for them?

As a seller, I can ask for the moon for something all day long, whether I get my price is something different.

IF they are selling and getting that amount, then they have their product priced right for the market in that area. If not,the they will need to reevaluate their price

PoPo22
February 3, 2013, 07:36 PM
"Quote:
Originally Posted by PoPo22
I constantly hear BS justifications from dealers....
Yet some, perhaps even most, of the justifications have merit.

David E,
Does that mean every shop is looking out for the customer? Of course not, but if a store has $40 on a Pmag or $12.99 for a 20 rd box of .223, it doesn't mean they've jacked up all the prices.

The store I referenced is long out of PMags, as they can't find any to replace their stock. They are one of the few places to have 9mm in stock but they are still selling it at their pre-panic prices.

They found some 5.56 (as opposed to .223) coming in from Israel and bought it up. Their price was $11.99 per box because they were able to send a truck to the dock to pick it up. It seems some people think that unless they sell it for the pre-panic $8.99 price, they are gouging. "

David E,
I agree if someone has to pay extra for an item that they are entitled to make the margin of profit they normally would, that's not an issue. If they are actually caring for their customers they can make less and take care of their customers, that is laudable.

If on the other hand they triple or quadruple their profit margin to take advantage of the "panic", I will no longer support that vendor, like everything else it is a choice made from principles. If they can survive in the "long haul" without my business then more power to them, but they will lose "this" steady customer for the rest of my life and I'll wish on them what they deserve, in my opinion. People justify these type practices by saying "that's just smart capitalism", they can sell it for whatever profit they want, but not to me.

This is exactly why this country is in the state its in now (in my opinion), no moral compass, no principles, just politicians babbling empty words and promises. If one wishes to believe this way then so be it, we each have a choice and draw our line in the sand according to what we believe. Good Luck.

Droid noob
February 3, 2013, 07:58 PM
One LGS in my area is selling Glock 19 mags for $120.

They should be boycotted once things bounce back. I wouldn't shop there again. IMO, it's one thing to sell msrp, but another to charge 4times the msrp

nwilliams
February 3, 2013, 09:47 PM
Our cost on everything hasn't changed at the gun shop I work at so we price everything exactly the same as we did prior to the madness. We have trouble keeping stuff stocked but our policy is that we don't price gouge.

We get a lot of customers wanting to put guns on consignment and asking ridiculous prices, we simply tell them to sell their guns somewhere else and try to sell them if they aren't willing to ask a reasonable price.

I also do all the online Gunbroker listings for our shop and we have a bunch of black rifles on auction right now and when I list them I start the auction at the MSRP and let the people bid up as much as they are willing to pay.

JohnKSa
February 3, 2013, 10:37 PM
Are they actually SELLING those mags for $120, or are they ASKING $120 for them?I strongly suspect that they are actually moving mags off the shelves at that price. Panics make that kind of thing possible.

oneounceload
February 4, 2013, 12:03 AM
Then they are NOT gouging, but pricing them according to market pricing forces

JohnKSa
February 4, 2013, 12:18 AM
I didn't say they were gouging.

I didn't make any commentary at all, in fact. I was merely responding to the thread title and providing a local example of insanity at a LGS.

Regardless of whether it's panicked people buying mags for 4-5x what they're actually worth because they haven't planned ahead and/or don't know of other sources, or whether it's a local gun store price-gouging, or whether it's alien mind control, it's still insanity.

oneounceload
February 4, 2013, 12:40 AM
Maybe, but they are buying them for exactly what they are worth at that moment in that location, and if they are willingly paying the asking price, then that is not insanity.....at least to them.

X-JaVeN-X
February 4, 2013, 12:44 AM
So, they are selling items at market price right now? What's wrong with that? They should sell them below market value so someone can come and buy them cheap and then resell them for a profit?

And when he does that, and he either can't get more inventory, or the wholesale cost has risen so he can't buy new inventory, then what? He then goes out of business.
You can't try to side with the "free market" argument as a way to tell people that they are wrong for boycotting a store for selling items at current "market value". Those people choosing to boycott are in fact exercising their power within that free market to boycott that store. That store is free to gouge (or sell at market value...however you wanna see it), but the consumer is also perfectly free to not shop there as well as do their best to convince others to do the same.

JohnKSa
February 4, 2013, 02:42 AM
Maybe, but they are buying them for exactly what they are worth at that moment in that location, and if they are willingly paying the asking price, then that is not insanity.....at least to them.First of all, I haven't said, nor do I believe that the gun shop is doing anything illegal. The magazines belong to them and they can price them any way they want.

I think that you believe I am saying that the gun store is doing something criminal and that's causing you to defend their actions when no defense is really necessary.

With that out of the way:

1. Willing compliance with a demand is not evidence that the demand is reasonable or "sane". A person can comply willingly with an insane request or demand for a number of reasons.

Let's look at just one possible reason by examining the definition of the word "panic".

Panic: Sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior.

"Wildly unthinking behavior" is quite an apt description of "insanity".

2. The idea that "sanity" can be defined, one person at a time based on what the person in question feels is sane or insane (as you imply when you say "at least not to them"), is, to say the least, problematic. If the standard of sanity for a person is how that person feels about his own actions at the time in question, then no one is ever insane and no one ever does anything insane.

3. The idea that the mags are worth exactly what they're marked because panicked people are willing to pay the price is not really consistent with reality. During this same timeframe, I found one online retailer selling the identical item (which was in stock--at least for awhile) for $25 + shipping, and there were (and still are) several other local gun stores (within 10 minutes drive) selling the same items for less than half of the marked price at the particular local gun store in question. The people are paying $120 aren't paying that price because the mags are worth exactly what they're marked but because the people are panicked, because they don't know where else to get them and because they think if they don't get them instantly they might not ever have the chance again. None of those things makes the mags worth $120, it just means that the people buying them are not acting rationally, or do not have sufficient information to make a rational decision. In other words, insanity.

gc70
February 4, 2013, 03:45 AM
Some hoarders who are manipulating market prices will be able to sell their goods at inflated prices before they run out of idiot buyers and some will not.

David E
February 4, 2013, 07:49 PM
LGS which is also a pawn shop..... keeps one AK and a few ARs on the shelf at any given time to keep the panic going.

You think he's got a few cases of ARs in the back and trickles them out to "keep the panic going?"

But the silver lining is that I have spread my wings a bit and tracked down two much smaller mom and pop styled gun/hunt/outdoors places that are truly friendly and charge reasonable prices.


Unfortunately, these shops will be the hardest hit because they won't be able to restock anytime soon.

David E
February 4, 2013, 07:57 PM
Some hoarders who are manipulating market prices.....

I'm curious how these "hoarders" are able to manipulate anything.

oneounceload
February 4, 2013, 09:02 PM
Sorry, Javen, but you seem not to understand supply/ demand and free market pricing, especially in a retail scenario

texasgun
February 4, 2013, 09:08 PM
just plain stupid....

the AWB will (most likely) be up for votes in March. It won't even make it thru the Senate but if .... it will fail with near certainty in the House.

Once the AWB is defeated an AR ban is pretty much off the table for the near future. Maybe they bring it up for votes again in 2yrs or so... maybe they won't.

That being said: once it's clear that AR's won't be banned on a federal level within any short/mid-term time-frame... prices will collapse.

That guy who bought 4 x SIG M400s for $1,000/each will at some point have to sell them because he needs to pay rent/fuel and whatnot. So there will be quite a few AR's being on the market. New production will stay high and with no ban in near future they won't sell that quick...

My year-end bonus will be paid out in March and I'm planning on getting a nice AR in April ... if prices are still very high - I just wait a few more months :evil:

p.s. that guy who is selling .223 for $1/rd will also no longer see his business when ammo suppliers have caught up with production. Especially as a "ammo ban" is even less likely than a AR ban

InkEd
February 4, 2013, 09:10 PM
That's pretty normal these days.

gc70
February 4, 2013, 11:04 PM
I'm curious how these "hoarders" are able to manipulate anything.

I don't know if "hoarders" or simply "speculators" is the best word to describe the people who swoop into stores that sell at normal prices and clean out the inventory for resale at vastly inflated prices. Locally, they manipulate prices by monopolizing the supply. In aggregate, and along with panic buying, they have been able to monopolize much of the supply nationally.

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