Can we please stop saying "Assault Weapon"


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miamivicedade
February 1, 2013, 11:58 PM
This made up term is part of the reason there is so much confusion out there. Just listen to the wisdom of Ted Cruz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi6gZU01yF8

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M2 Carbine
February 2, 2013, 12:07 AM
I look at "assault weapon" just like "Saturday night special".

It is usually used in a anti gun way.


Just today a lady started talking about "assault weapons". As usual I asked her what is a "assault weapon", and of course she didn't know.

So I completely threw her off track by making it clear she didn't know what she was talking about.

miamivicedade
February 2, 2013, 12:12 AM
And I do the same when people use that term around me. But we gun owners and advocates should not be using a term like that. It's a term that misleads people, and as Cruz said, makes people uncomfortable.

We will never get more people on our side if they continue to believe that an AR-15 is an "assault weapon".

InkEd
February 2, 2013, 12:17 AM
I completely agree! I made a joke about it in another post.

Mine are counter-assault rifles! They are for protection.

BearGriz
February 2, 2013, 02:05 AM
I know this isn't towing the "party line," but I don't care if we/they call them "assault weapons" or "EBRs" or "military-style rifles."

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

I'm pretty sure that firearms enthusiasts called them by all of those terms before the gun grabbers did, and in the end I think we look actually sort of silly whining about semantics rather than debating the issues.

But if you think that "assault rifles" is pejorative or implies something evil, then you can refrain from using that term. Personally I don't mind it; I've called them by that term for years and never thought it implied anything evil. Instead I've sought after these firearms because they were so close to their full-auto counterparts. If they weren't so similar, we wouldn't like them so much. I like "assault rifles," and I'm not ashamed to say it.

We act like the omission of select fire (in favor of semi-auto) transforms these firearms substantially. In my book they are still really, really close, and to me that is actually a selling point.


However, I will admit that terminology is a part of politics. Republicans had a clear agenda in mind when they worked hard to change "estate taxes" to "death taxes" in common discourse. One person says they are "pro life," and another claims to be "pro choice." You have people "defending marriage," and others seeking "marriage equality" and "civil rights."

In all these cases, the terms are meant to frame the debate, but I think that most of us most of the time are not swayed by the semantics. Instead we look into the real issues and weight the merits of each case.

And lastly, when it comes to these types of firearms, I think most Americans have made up their minds what they think an "assault weapon" is. (This ship has sort of sailed.)

Solo
February 2, 2013, 04:52 AM
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
Yes, but you're more likely to sell canola oil than rapeseed oil.

BHP FAN
February 2, 2013, 04:59 AM
words matter. If we can't keep it straight, how in the heck can we educate anyone?!

coloradokevin
February 2, 2013, 05:08 AM
This whole campaign for stricter gun laws is being built on the basis of a fancy word game... the enemies of gun rights are marketing to the American public by using any number of the different buzz words/phrases we've heard over the years. This includes "assault weapons", of course, but also includes plenty of other phrases we've heard over the years:

"reasonable restrictions"

"fringe gun owners"

"high-capacity magazine"

"military grade ammo/weapons/slings/whatever"


We need to at least be mindful of the fact that how we talk plays a role in how successful we are at preserving our rights. I really think we're doing ourselves a disservice by referring to our guns as "assault rifles". They aren't assault rifles, they're simply rifles. Calling them assault rifles is no more useful than calling them "murder sticks" (a term I hope the left doesn't try to pick up on from this thread).

These rifles ARE modern sporting rifles, they ARE semi-automatic rifles, they ARE useful rifles. They ARE NOT "assault rifles". Any time I use that term these days, I try to put it in quotations, just to emphasize the fact that the colloquial term for these guns is not necessarily the most accurate or representative way to refer to them.

Isaac-1
February 2, 2013, 06:09 AM
I personally hate the term "modern sporting rifle" I think it is a blatant lie, and everyone in the conversation knows it, it is as bad as or worse than assualt rifle just in the other direction. It is much like calling gang members, socially disadvantaged youths, it causes anyone that uses the term be immediately judged as petty and takes the focus off the real topics of the conversation. I have no problem with semi-auto rifle, clumping AR's in with Remington Speedmasters, but what I would personally prefer is a term that encompasses the modern AR / AK platforms, maybe something more neutral like Modern Modular Rifle, or Configurable Long Gun Platform to embrace the mix and match lego nature for these guns. As these are terms that we might be able to sell to the fence sitters.

Just ask yourself how many times have you had this conversations with some non gun person:

Q, What is this Modern Sporting Rifle the NRA is talking about?

A. It is the most popular class of semi atuo rifles being sold today and is used for all sorts of sporting and hunting purposes,........

Q, hum, I stil don't know what you mean

A. The AR-15 and AK-47 are popular examples of this class

Q, So its an assualt rifle?

A, Yeah, but we don't like to use that term we prefer modern sporting rifle (and they hear, yeah its an assualt rifle, but we would much prefer if you called it a fluffy cudly gun)

XD 45acp
February 2, 2013, 07:54 AM
I get tired of them saying " AR" in AR-15 stands for Assault Rifle. UGH!!!!!!!!

PowderMonkey
February 2, 2013, 08:02 AM
'Assault weapon' is the 'crotch rocket' of the performance motorcycle world, one that I also reside in.

We shooters and gun owners, see first hand with our own eyes, nothing but responsible use of AR's through competitions like Camp Perry and Multigun (3Gun), and plinking at the range. Thus to us it's a modern sporting rifle. The non gun folk don't see guns in person AT ALL, all they see is the news and that is Aurora and Sandy Hook. So, of course they have no problem with the term Assault Rifle, because the only time they hear about it, it's just been used to assault someone and it's all over the TV.

We performance motorcyclists, who ride extremely powerful modern motorcycles lawfully and sensibily on the road while wearing leathers and full face helmets even in the 80's in the summertime (ATGATT) - well we call our machines sportbikes. Non-riders who see flip-flop boy with a wifebeater and a backwards ballcap doing stand-up wheelies down the interstate in traffic - yup it's always going to be a 'crotch rocket' to them for sure. All they see firsthand is misuse.

Ragnar Danneskjold
February 2, 2013, 08:43 AM
I personally hate the term "modern sporting rifle" I think it is a blatant lie, and everyone in the conversation knows it, it is as bad as or worse than assualt rifle just in the other direction. It is much like calling gang members, socially disadvantaged youths, it causes anyone that uses the term be immediately judged as petty and takes the focus off the real topics of the conversation. I have no problem with semi-auto rifle, clumping AR's in with Remington Speedmasters, but what I would personally prefer is a term that encompasses the modern AR / AK platforms, maybe something more neutral like Modern Modular Rifle, or Configurable Long Gun Platform to embrace the mix and match lego nature for these guns. As these are terms that we might be able to sell to the fence sitters.

Just ask yourself how many times have you had this conversations with some non gun person:

Q, What is this Modern Sporting Rifle the NRA is talking about?

A. It is the most popular class of semi atuo rifles being sold today and is used for all sorts of sporting and hunting purposes,........

Q, hum, I stil don't know what you mean

A. The AR-15 and AK-47 are popular examples of this class

Q, So its an assualt rifle?

A, Yeah, but we don't like to use that term we prefer modern sporting rifle (and they hear, yeah its an assualt rifle, but we would much prefer if you called it a fluffy cudly gun)

First of all, no one even owns and AK-47 unless there are some on the NFA. The Avtomat Kalashnikova Model 1947 is an automatic rifle. Just like the M16 or M4. It was replaced by rifles such as the AK-74 and the AKM. The AK-lookalikes that people buy at Dunham's are not 47s. And calling them such is just as ignorant as saying you can buy an M16 at Dunham's. M16 =/= AR-15. AK47 =/= AK lookalike. I'm sorry, but I can't take any of your arguments seriously when you didn't even bother to learn what the weapons actually are.

Second, unless you're using your rifle to assault something, it's not an assault rifle. Shooting paper targets is a sport. That's what most of us use them for. Sporting rifle. Is any bolt action rifle with a scope automatically a "sniper rifle"? Of course not. A sniper rifle is any rifle used by an actual sniper. If you're not a sniper, your rifle isn't a sniper rifle. It's just a precision rifle with some optics. And if you're not assaulting something, your rifle isn't an assault rifle.


Words mean things.

Fleetman
February 2, 2013, 08:46 AM
+1 on banning the term "assault weapons" when referring to rifles. I get into plenty of debates on another site I belong to.....BITOG.com.

I've repeatedly stated that my property is full of weapons; bricks, sticks, rocks, and my grandkids baseball bats. My AR's and AK's are incapable of assaulting anyone unless I task them to....otherwise they are just metal, plastic, and wood....no brain, no intent, and certainly not capable of getting out of the safe unless I let them.

"Assault weapon" is the buzz word for the Obozo administration.

vulcandeathbuny
February 2, 2013, 08:51 AM
Had a die hard anti that works with me completely against ar15 because he believed the media.... well about 14the days of debate along with properly educating him on the subject he is now shooting them and wanting to buy one.

steveracer
February 2, 2013, 09:00 AM
This is right up there with CLIPS and MAGAZINES.
If we don't use the CORRECT terms (not interchangeable, not at all) than how exactly are we supposed to educate others.
And BTW: "clip" and "magazine" are as different as "anvil" and "railroad track". Just as "assault rifle" and "semi-auto rifle" are as different as "blimp" and "helicopter".
To call them interchangeable is just INCORRECT and makes you sound like an idiot who doesn't care about this stuff at all.
I don't call my shoes "tires". Idiotic.

miamivicedade
February 2, 2013, 09:03 AM
A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Thanks for the attempted wisdom, but you obviously miss the point and are a danger to other gun owners. Why call it a rose if it's a daisy?

Xfire68
February 2, 2013, 09:08 AM
BearGriz and Isaac-1, even though you find the differences to be nonexistent between AR's and assault rifles. The truth is by actual definition they are different.

Calling the AR "The Modern Sporting Rifle" is pretty spot on. The vast majority of people that buy AR's today use them for sporting purposes.

As a "responsible" gun owner you should do your best to properly educate anyone who asks. Misinformation only clouds the issues.

JFrame
February 2, 2013, 09:10 AM
Can we please stop saying "Assault Weapon"

I totally agree.

We cannot allow the leftists to define and characterize the firearms we own. The guns I own aren't used for "assault," and in fact, none of them have even been used as "weapons" other than a couple of .22's for squirrel-hunting (but then, doesn't that define them as "sporting arms," per the leftist credo?).


.

Axel Larson
February 2, 2013, 09:33 AM
Man Leahy was there ugh I mean my state voted for him. But yes explaining why they are not assault rifles does change peoples minds, my wife explained the difference to her mother and now her mother has no problem with them, just have to work on her dad.

Stugots
February 2, 2013, 09:43 AM
Man Leahy was there ugh I mean my state voted for him. But yes explaining why they are not assault rifles does change peoples minds, my wife explained the difference to her mother and now her mother has no problem with them, just have to work on her dad.

Here's my response from Mr. Leahy.....

Thank you for contacting me about the school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, and gun control in the United States. I appreciate hearing from you on this very important issue.

The tragedy in Newtown left me shocked and horrified. As a father and grandfather, I cannot begin to imagine the pain and grief that the families of the victims are experiencing. Many constituents, like you, have written in to me in the past few weeks to express their support for meaningful changes to federal firearms policy. I have heard from parents, grandparents, veterans, teachers, hunters, and children, all expressing their belief that our laws need to be improved, and urging Congress to act. I have also heard from Vermonters, like you, who are concerned that new legislation could interfere with our Second Amendment rights.

I grew up hunting in Vermont and am still an avid target shooter. I value our Second Amendment rights, and the Supreme Court has said definitively that Americans are guaranteed its protections. But like all of the rights guaranteed by our Constitution, it is not absolute. I agreed with Justice Scalia when he wrote in the Supreme Court's District of Columbia v. Heller decision that the Second Amendment does not prohibit reasonable regulations. The factors underlying the terrible tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, are complex, and involve a host of issues relating to mental health treatment, firearms policy, and school safety. It is my hope that as this conversation continues, the Senate will hear from many Americans, including experts from law enforcement, from the mental health community, and from leaders in our educational system.

One thing that I am especially concerned about is the role that mental health records play in the purchasing of firearms. The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is an FBI database that is intended to provide licensed sellers with a quick and easy way to determine if, among other things, a buyer has a history of mental illness. Unfortunately, the majority

Axel Larson
February 2, 2013, 09:49 AM
Not to derail the thread but what they don't get is for someone's rights to be taken away they must have due process ie go to court. A doctor has no place deciding who can and cannot own a firearm that is for a judge and jury.

Airwolfe1
February 2, 2013, 09:59 AM
I have to agree with banning the term "assault weapon". The term was coined by the "Anti's", and the "lame stream" media propagated the fallacy. Why would anyone supporting the 2 Amendment, want to use a term coined, by our opponents specifically to create negative and misleading conotations towards an AR or AK style firearm. Modern Sporting Rifle is, in fact, a more accurate term that reflects what the rifle really is.

Gordon_Freeman
February 2, 2013, 10:10 AM
I like the term modern sporting rifles. It's simple and easy to remember.

gthotchkiss
February 2, 2013, 10:17 AM
'Assault weapon' is the 'crotch rocket' of the performance motorcycle world, one that I also reside in.


+1, I've had similar conversations on both terms. Typically it doesn't change the person's terminolgy, however I still feel obligated to explain it to people who are ignorant on the subject.

Walkalong
February 2, 2013, 10:29 AM
It's not likely to happen. The media has drilled it into the average persons heads for too long. It has "stuck" as they say. Gun owners are just about as bad.

Just call it an AR 15, or an AK, or whatever. :)

Manco
February 2, 2013, 12:42 PM
I like the term modern sporting rifles. It's simple and easy to remember.

I don't like either of these terms, and I don't allow them to persist in any conversation I have about gun rights with an anti. They're just rifles--they may have somewhat different characteristics, but they're still just rifles. I don't like the idea of calling any rifles "sporting rifles" either, as well-intentioned as that may be, because it unintentionally reinforces the notion that sporting is the only legitimate use, as much of the population seems to believe.

Rifles are tools that can be used in a variety of ways, for both good and evil. How they are used is up to the individual who uses them, not the rifles themselves or any labels that we slap on them, and the evil purposes (e.g. murder) have all long been codified into law.

Redlg155
February 2, 2013, 12:58 PM
You would have better luck with getting folks to know what the difference is between a clip and a magazine. And NO.. a stripper clip is not a stag film.

Both gun owners and non gun owners are just as guilty. The new catch phrase.."Weapons of Mass Destruction".

coloradokevin
February 2, 2013, 02:07 PM
I personally hate the term "modern sporting rifle" I think it is a blatant lie, and everyone in the conversation knows it, it is as bad as or worse than assualt rifle just in the other direction. It is much like calling gang members, socially disadvantaged youths, it causes anyone that uses the term be immediately judged as petty and takes the focus off the real topics of the conversation. I have no problem with semi-auto rifle, clumping AR's in with Remington Speedmasters, but what I would personally prefer is a term that encompasses the modern AR / AK platforms, maybe something more neutral like Modern Modular Rifle, or Configurable Long Gun Platform to embrace the mix and match lego nature for these guns. As these are terms that we might be able to sell to the fence sitters.

Just ask yourself how many times have you had this conversations with some non gun person:

Q, What is this Modern Sporting Rifle the NRA is talking about?

A. It is the most popular class of semi atuo rifles being sold today and is used for all sorts of sporting and hunting purposes,........

Q, hum, I stil don't know what you mean

A. The AR-15 and AK-47 are popular examples of this class

Q, So its an assualt rifle?

A, Yeah, but we don't like to use that term we prefer modern sporting rifle (and they hear, yeah its an assualt rifle, but we would much prefer if you called it a fluffy cudly gun)

I strongly disagree. Just because someone jumps to the conclusion that it is an assault rifle doesn't mean that it is. Your question and answer dialogue makes sense, right up until you presume that, because someone who knows nothing about guns calls it an assault rifle, it should be so.

Other "modern sporting rifles" could include the Ruger Mini 14, Ruger 10/22, or Browning BAR. Those are all relatively modern designs in the history of firearms, and those are all semi-automatic rifles. Those are NOT "assault weapons", even by the previously applied legal definition. An AR-15 and AK-47 are as different as they are similar (just like the Ruger 10/22 is as different as it is similar to each of those rifles), and you seem to be buying into the idea that these rifles are only useful for assaulting things.

What exactly qualifies a gun as an assault rifle to you?


An AR-15 has several modern advantages that makes it a great choice as one of the preeminent examples of a modern sporting rifles. None of these attributes are things that most people will ever use for combat or criminal purposes (they might do dual purpose in that role, but that isn't what most people buy them for). Allow me to explain some of the features that people like:

1) Durable finishes that stand up to hard use while hunting or playing in the field.

2) Reliable designs that function out-of-the-box without gunsmithing or other modifications

3) Modular designs that allow you to switch upper receivers easily for different purposes (a varmint upper for long range shooting, a 16" barrel for in-the-woods, a different caliber upper for hunting, etc).

4) Factory peep sights that are far easier for most shooters to acquire more easily than more conventional notch-and-blade sights.

5) Picatinny rails and accessory rails allow the user to add a variety of optics to a widely available and standard type of mount. This setup also allows optics to be switched out quite easily when compared with more historic designs.

6) multi-position telescoping stocks allow the rifle to easily fit me and my girlfriend for length of pull (she's much shorter, and likes the length of pull to be shorter).

7) Threaded barrels allow for the addition of recoil reducing muzzle brakes or hearing protecting sound suppressors.

8) Designs of these rifles readily accommodate the use of slings, bipods, and other accessories that some old designs don't allow for.

9) Pistol grip stocks are believed to be more ergonomic by some shooters (and arguable point)

10) These designs are capable of achieving ridiculous accuracy when compared to older guns.

11) Detachable magazines make it easier to load AND unload, switch types of ammo, deal with malfunctions, and keep shooting without fiddling with the action of the rifle.


So, there's a whole bunch of reasons why these MODERN SPORTING RIFLES are different than more historic designs. Not one of these reasons involves the ability of the rifle to assault anyone, though some have obviously used these rifles to do so (though not very often, statistically). Regardless, not one of those features suggests that the rifle would be used to assault someone. I sure didn't buy my AR-15 target rifle with the intention of assaulting anyone. Granted, my work rifle is used in a role where it may be tasked with shooting someone, but the same can be said for the 870 shotgun I carry at work, or the Glock with the 10-round magazine that I carry at work, or the bolt action rifles we field as sniper rifles. The role of the gun is determined by its end user, not by its design.


As such, please tell me: WHAT IS AN ASSAULT RIFLE?

Isaac-1
February 2, 2013, 02:30 PM
I just want to clarify that, I am on our side, I own both an AR and an AK, along with various other rifles, I understand the difference between an AK-47, AK-74, AKM, etc. However drawing a fine distinction here when talking to the general public is just the very sort of thing that I see as a distraction from the core isssue, (they will see it as nitpicking) perhaps it might be better to have said something like a Semi-Auto AK-47, because saying a Rommy G AKM would just confuse any non gun person out there. As to this claim that the semi auto and full auto version of the AKM are two completely different rifles, lets be honest here, the semi auto version of the AKM (at least in the US) is a full auto version where one group of parts that controls cyclic rate has been removed, a hole was NOT drilled in the reviever and a small tab was cut off of the bolt assembly. Sure this changes the fuction of the gun to semi auto, and it would take some work to restore this function, but that does not make it a completely different gun. I will give you that in the case of the AR platform there are more machining differences between the semi and full auto versions.

The point I am trying to make is what we say and what people hear are not always the same thing, as can be illustrated by this you tube clip from a british comedy show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJKGGhcXUM

ExTank
February 2, 2013, 07:09 PM
The only time I use "assault weapon" is when I engage an anti and attempt to show them:

A) It's a completely made-up term;
2) A ban on them is cosmetic (heh) and not a true solution to the problems of gun violence;
#) If they feel the need to "do someting!" to protect their children, buy car seats and use them, supervise their kids around water, or any elevated space or position, keep matches and lighters away from their kids, and make sure medicines and household cleaners are properly secured from their kids.

mastiffhound
February 2, 2013, 11:37 PM
I always call it by name(AR-15, AKM copy) or semi auto rifle because, duh, that's what they are. I like the terms M4gery and A4gery too. They aren't "assault weapons" they are fakes. They look real but they're not! Speaking to the uninformed makes you want to scream. They scare the poor ignorant peasants the same way they scared them with WMD's in Iraq. Of course it wouldn't be so easy to do this but many of these fools weren't taught to think for themselves. If you've been over fed a steady diet of crap that's what you will regurgitate.

Airbrush Artist
February 2, 2013, 11:41 PM
No Firearm is a WEAPON until its in use...

Kevin Rohrer
February 2, 2013, 11:49 PM
I get tired of them saying " AR" in AR-15 stands for Assault Rifle. UGH!!!!!!!!

I always thought it stood for Armalite Rifle, or Automatic Rifle. I don't believe it stands for Assault Rifle, but am willing to be shown evidence to the contrary.

As for the term Assault Weapon, calling any semi-auto weapon by that term is comparable is playing into the hands of the Antis. Don't do it. Instead, educate the uninformed and misinformed as to the difference.

Jim Mac
February 3, 2013, 12:06 AM
well since our own homeland security dept now calls them personal defense weapons (even though thiers are select fire) I think we should get used to calling our AR's, and AK's the same or PDW's jim

JTHunter
February 3, 2013, 12:13 AM
"Accurate" nomenclature has never been desirable by the libs and antis. They want to demonize anything they don't like. This is just the most recent battle.

OilyPablo
February 3, 2013, 12:14 AM
Sport Utility Rifle

rhinoh
February 3, 2013, 08:07 AM
I don't care for the term "assault rifle" either. When pressed, and if I care to, I will admit to owning "defense rifles".
I can not envision me personally ever using them in an assault role, I can envision using them in a defensive role if the unfortunate need arises.
Frankly I hope neither ever happens.

sean326
February 3, 2013, 08:52 AM
I always thought it stood for Armalite Rifle, or Automatic Rifle. I don't believe it stands for Assault Rifle, but am willing to be shown evidence to the contrary.

As for the term Assault Weapon, calling any semi-auto weapon by that term is comparable is playing into the hands of the Antis. Don't do it. Instead, educate the uninformed and misinformed as to the difference.
It stands for Armalite Rifle, i think the guy you quoted agrees with you.

klover
February 4, 2013, 09:59 PM
then I be sure to describe how I would not own one unless the evil simply oozes out of it onto the floor and mucks up the place with gallons and gallons of evil everywhere;)

When they think about it for a bit, they are usually de-fused.

RetiredUSNChief
March 15, 2013, 04:55 PM
Can we please stop saying "Assault Weapon"

This made up term is part of the reason there is so much confusion out there. Just listen to the wisdom of Ted Cruz.


Methinks this is the whole reason for the term, my friend. To that end, you'll never get the gun control crowd to change.

:scrutiny:

UhKlem
March 16, 2013, 10:28 AM
I like to refer to my serf guns as castrati because they only get to sing single high notes, and with their original designed equipment permanently removed they will never know the satisfaction of the long low growl of a magazine dump in a brief second or two. Next to a manly baritone 40mm thump gun, their true inadequacy is evident to all but the most feminized anxiephiles so prominent in this Age of the Wimp. Perhaps our real problem is we can't buy scented pink bullets.

beatledog7
March 16, 2013, 10:53 AM
My take:

"Assault weapon" is a valid term for whatever implement or body part one uses to initiate an assault with intent to harm on another person or group of persons. Define the term that way, and no firearm owned by 99% of us will ever qualify. For that matter, the overwhelming majority of us will never commit an assault on another person with any sort of implement or body part.

But the non-thinking, anti-gun type of person will never allow for any definition other than that which the pregressive media feeds him or her, even if it is meaningless and vague.

steelerdude99
March 16, 2013, 11:48 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8812151#post8812151

see the THR General Gun Discussions under subject Terminology/Buzzwords post #2 which is a YouTube video on how the term assault weapon is used.

sugerwater
March 16, 2013, 03:07 PM
I thought AR stood for Americans Rifle. It's what we Patriots own.

TrickyDick
March 16, 2013, 07:27 PM
It's a rifle. just a rifle, nothing more, nothing less. the best way to describe certain rifles are to describe it's action. i own 2 bolt action rifles and some semi-automatic rifles. that's the only important characteristic. whether it has detachable magazines, or bayonets is irrelevent to it's operation. so if one wishes to call it an "Assault weapon" then it only proves that they're lacking proper education on such things.

45_auto
March 16, 2013, 07:47 PM
It's a rifle. just a rifle, nothing more, nothing less.

If it has certain legally-defined cosmetic features, it's also an assault weapon whether you like it or not. Only education required is a knowledge of the law.

No4Mk1*
March 16, 2013, 08:07 PM
I don't like "assault rifle" as That implies being the aggressor. I also dislike "modern sporting rifle" because the 2nd amendment does not say "a well regulated sports team, being necessary to the entertainment of citizens, shall not be infringed." I just call 'em semiautomatic rifles, militia weapons, or fighting rifles, because that's ultimately what they are for.

Prophet
March 16, 2013, 08:10 PM
I call mine a rifle.

OilyPablo
March 16, 2013, 08:13 PM
I don't like "assault rifle" because it's NOT.

sig228
March 16, 2013, 08:19 PM
I said this already, I will say it again:

I think we should embrace the term instead of hiding behind it.

I own an assault weapon. It's legal. Get over it.

Pvt. Pyle
March 16, 2013, 08:50 PM
These are the problems with this whole deal, some people who buy these rifles have to put 100 lights, 7 lazers, 3 slings, and tape together 5 mags then go shooting and imagine they are the Rock in the new GI Joe movie, and post pictures on their facebooks being so tough and manly with their assault weapons that can take down an intruder without waking the neighbors.

Thats why assault weapons win, because that stuff sells. None of those things can be used and the rifle still be considered a Modern Sporting Rifle. The same with sniper rifle. Its ridiculous on both sides of the line.

rodregier
March 16, 2013, 08:53 PM
If you let your opponents pick the vocabulary for the debate you have given up significant ground at the beginning of the contest.

x_wrench
March 16, 2013, 09:15 PM
the way i see it, is ONLY the GOVERNMENT, and select few civilians that pay a hefty TAX, have "assault weapons". the rest of us have semi automatic firearms that LOOK like, but function unlike "assault weapons". therefore, the government is trying to ban its own firearms, but will gladly apply the law to anything resembling the real thing. it would not surprise me to see them ban even plastic look alike toys. the real problem is, that the anti-gun politicians behind these ideas have such little knowledge of what they are talking about, that they will inevitably screw up the entire thing. which will be fine as far as they are concerned, because it will allow them to grab many more guns than they originally intended. and by the time the laws get straightened around, or repealed, all the guns collected will already be automobile parts.

slimjimriggins
March 17, 2013, 02:21 AM
My good friend from another state recently posted a response on my FB page that stated, "Civilians should not be alowed to have assault weapons. They do more harm than good in society." I was shocked. I calmly explained to him many points that have been discussed on this board, but the main point I tried to make was that "assault weapon" is an arbitrary term, and that it covered my Ruger Mini-14 and 10/22. These were two of my firearms which he himself had shot a few times when I took him to the range! He let the issue be, but about a week ago he once again spoke out against assault weapons. I told him I couldn't be friends with someone who ignored logic, and that I was disappointed because I thought he was more intelligent than that. He replied that he had plenty of intelligence, AW's are bad, etc, so I deleted him as a friend. He and I were pretty good friends, so what I really wanted to do was see him in person and beat some sense into him. It hurts when you realize your friend is a jackass.

breakingcontact
March 17, 2013, 03:14 AM
We never called them Assault Weapons, even in the military.

OilyPablo
March 17, 2013, 09:08 AM
We never called them Assault Weapons, even in the military.

Exactly. It's an arbitrary term used to brainwash.

CajunBass
March 17, 2013, 09:19 AM
I know this isn't towing the "party line," but I don't care if we/they call them "assault weapons" or "EBRs" or "military-style rifles."

I don't watch the TV news much but I caught a few minutes of the local yesterday. They were discussing a rally to call for the banning of "military-style rifles."

Y'all want to stop calling them that too? What do you want to use now?

The other side is going to call them whatever they want to call them. They don't give two hoots in a windstorm what we call them. If you don't want to call them "assault rifles" feel free not to but don't think it will change anything.

OilyPablo
March 17, 2013, 09:41 AM
They were discussing a rally to call for the banning of "military-style rifles."

Right there. Proof we are winning. Yes it matters.

Now, how big was this rally?

303tom
March 17, 2013, 09:44 AM
Would not hurt my feelings one damn bit...................

kwguy
March 17, 2013, 10:32 AM
The anti's look for some ominous sounding catch phrase that they can use to put fear into people. 'assault weapon' is one phrase. It's true, the military doesn't even call them that. For many in the military, the M4 carbine is actually a personal defense weapon (aircrews, tankers, etc). But the anti's can't call it THAT, because that doesn't support their agenda.

Calling it a "military style" weapon just laughable. I guess a corvette is a "racing style" car, (and those red ones are the REALLY dangerous ones, better watch out for them).

We won't change what they want to call them, because they don't actually care that their terminology is jacked up. They are going to go for the emotion. Period.

breakingcontact
March 17, 2013, 10:44 AM
Calling it a "military style" weapon just laughable. I guess a corvette is a "racing style" car, (and those red ones are the REALLY dangerous ones, better watch out for them).

I think the left's technique on this matches how they battle people. They can't go after the true category of weapons because that is too large, so they have to create a group that is easily identifiable (with their made up definition).

This is the same as they don't separate people by ideology, such as believing in family, wanting lower taxes, they separate people by skin color.

They love to attack and demonize individuals or whatever they are pursuing based upon the terminology they control.

It's pretty effective generally.

kwguy
March 17, 2013, 11:46 AM
Unfortunately, it is generally effective...

danez71
March 17, 2013, 12:36 PM
If they're allowed to ban based on 'style' (military style assault rifle) then are children are all hosed years down the road.

The Hummer was a military style 4x4.

Sportsmanguide (and others) sells tons of military style cloths, axes, tents, mess kits, watches, ... on and on.

Heck, Walmart sells camo military style cargo shorts.


They are not going after a 'capability'. The are going after a 'style'.



Its not enough that we complain to each other that 'they' dont know what they are talking about and its not fact based.


We must point out to others that the politicians are using arbitrary subjective 'style' and not objective capability to erode the 2A, and by doing so, they are also eroding the 1A.


Isnt a style a form of expression? AKA what the 1A is all about?

GEM
March 17, 2013, 01:33 PM
Sig228 is correct. You won't convince folks they are nice guns. We own them because they are not nice. If you go for the sporting excuse, then they are quite easy to ban.

We don't own them to be modern sporting rifles - sport is a side effect of training.

clutch
March 17, 2013, 02:07 PM
I use the term AR, EBR :rolleyes:, and MSR but I never call them assault rifles nor do I call my fairly inexpensive bersa .380 a 'saturday night special'.

I personally like 'modern sporting rifle' because for most of us that is what we are using them for.

I will not use the anti's words. They don't need any help projecting their message.

Sambo82
March 17, 2013, 03:20 PM
If "AK" is an incorrect term as some are saying for describing a semi auto rifle based off of the Kalashnikov pattern, isn't "AR-15" the same error if Armalite didn't produce the rifle in question? Do we really want to get into splitting those kind of hairs in our day to day gun conversations?

Ultimately when talking to someone about these firearms I think that tact and charisma is more important than terminology. Being a terminology-nazi to someone who doesn't know any better might win the debate, but it won't change any minds. Sure, correct people on "assault rifle" or "clips" but do it in a constructive way.

I mean, what if your mechanic condescendingly told you that your car isn't powered by a "motor"?

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