LEO rifle quesiton


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JBrady555
February 2, 2013, 02:02 PM
I have a quick question for those who know more about the police than I do. My question is do LEO's use semi automatic rifles or select fire? That question goes for local law and also special swat teams and so forth. Thanks for any info.

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soloban
February 2, 2013, 02:03 PM
Most of the Feds have select fire weapons.

xfyrfiter
February 2, 2013, 02:09 PM
A lot of smaller depts use surplus m16's, and have for a few years.

Mr Woody
February 2, 2013, 02:11 PM
The vast majority of police cars that have rifles will be semi-auto. Full-auto is more expensive and has more liability so a local department normally will not use them for all officers

A few cars will have full auto but that would be rare and probably related to that particular officer being an SRT (SWAT) teem member.

A local Swat teem will probably have full auto rifles.

The federal officers will probably be full-auto.

This is an 'in general' - the politicians will do whatever they want.

Bikewer
February 2, 2013, 02:33 PM
I'm not aware of any departments locally (St.Louis area) that issue anything other than semi-auto. We use the Rock River AR.
The local county SWAT outfit uses an MP3 variant for full-auto fire.

PD2BP253
February 2, 2013, 02:42 PM
My FED agency uses select fire M4A1...

Neo-Luddite
February 2, 2013, 02:46 PM
Many small town departments get M-16a1&2 from Fed Gov on a (more or less) permanent loan arangment. For those purchasing they can buy whatever they want but most go with semi for liability and simplicity; weapons can be sold to individual officers then and become their property. Select fire weapons always stay the property of the department. They become a liability to dispose of as they can only then go to title 2 dealers or other departments.

Carter
February 2, 2013, 02:50 PM
Every department I know, even Highway Patrol, uses semi autos. A lot departments in NC say officers can buy their own rifles, so that is a limiting factor. SWAT teams on the other hand are a whole different ball game.

xjsnake
February 2, 2013, 02:56 PM
Our local sheriffs dept issues Semi Auto M4gerys to all officers. My buddy on the force used to be with a different department and was issued a full auto MP5 there.

akv3g4n
February 2, 2013, 03:57 PM
They become a liability to dispose of as they can only then go to title 2 dealers or other departments.

I don't think title 2 dealers can buy them unless they were manufactured and registered before 1986 though. Am I incorrect?

hak
February 2, 2013, 04:01 PM
FBI that I know have select fire ARs and select fire .40 cal MP5 (and semi auto pistols).

Old Dog
February 2, 2013, 04:42 PM
Our M-4s are semi-auto. We do have H&K MP5s for our cool guys, though (Oakleys and balaclavas included).

WC145
February 2, 2013, 04:49 PM
By far the majority of patrol rifles are semi auto and there's a large number of cops out there that have to provide their own rifles. I'm one of those. My patrol rifle is a SIG 556, semi auto of course.

Steve in PA
February 2, 2013, 04:56 PM
The vast majority are semi-auto. A neighboring department has some military surplus full-auto M16's, however they have been converted over to semi-auto.

IMHO, for the street officer, there is no need for a full-auto rifle

Telekinesis
February 2, 2013, 05:11 PM
I don't think title 2 dealers can buy them unless they were manufactured and registered before 1986 though. Am I incorrect?

Dealers and manufacturers can purchase post '86 machine guns, they just can't sell to individuals. The only difference between them purchasing a pre '86 and post '86 machine gun is that for the post-sample, they need a demo letter from local law enforcement (which in most areas is not very difficult to get).

Full-auto is more expensive and has more liability so a local department normally will not use them for all officers

My local SOT has mentioned to me once or twice that a lot of companies offer select fire ARs to SOTs and gov agencies for a very minor mark up. IIRC CMMG only adds a $50 charge to make any weapon select fire.

No argument on the liability though. I think in the grand scheme of things, police shouldn't have access to full auto weapons except in very limited circumstances.

lemaymiami
February 2, 2013, 05:15 PM
I've been out of police work for 17 years so my contribution is a bit dated..

On my small agency (100 sworn) in south Florida it was strictly semi-auto rifles (but they were few and far between), most (me included) carried dept issued shotguns. The only exception was our SRT which was armed with H&K MP5's with select fire capability among other weapons.


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At one point towards the end of my career I was called out to initiate an internal look at a shooting that involved our SRT. It was a dope deal gone bad (no one brought money, no one brought dope... everyone brought guns.) that ended up in a running gun battle through a large shopping center parking lot at night.... The good news is that no one on either side was wounded in the exchange and all the bad actors went to jail. When I got to the scene and saw all the shell casings from our SRT (I quit counting since there were boxes and boxes of empties over a 200 yard foot pursuit).... without hitting anything at all (something about running and shooting -it's best left to the movies...) I held my breath until we were certain that the only damage had been to cars and buildings. My first recommendation was that we change our policy and not allow our officers to use full auto except as a necessary last resort in self defense situations only..... Can't remember if anyone listened to me since it was a while ago. To this day I'd advise any carrying select fire weapons in police work to do their best to never use that capability. Too great a risk of very bad outcomes in urban areas... but it does make for interesting entertainment at the movies.

THe Dove
February 2, 2013, 05:17 PM
I think most LEO's rifles are semi auto/3 round burst. As far as mag capacity, I would say 20 rounds. Now all this is for the normal unit on the beat. I'm not talkin 'bout SWAT, SORT, ERT, etc.....

The Dove

JBrady555
February 2, 2013, 05:32 PM
Thanks for the info, I was just doing some research to support my "anything law enforcement deems necessary to do their job should be legal for civilian defense" view point.

Makes sense to me because we are dealing with the exact same criminals that they are. I'd like the same firepower that they think is sufficent.

WC145
February 2, 2013, 05:44 PM
Like I said, the majority of patrol rifles are semi auto, we don't have a need for full auto. The standard is the AR15 with 30rd mags and iron sights. Clearly there's a lot of people that think cops have some "in" that hooks them up with the good stuff. Fact is, it isn't like that. In the real world, budgets, liability, training time, weapon and ammunition availability, and many other factors play a role in who carries what and why.

allaroundhunter
February 2, 2013, 05:47 PM
The vast majority of police cars that have rifles will be semi-auto. Full-auto is more expensive and has more liability so a local department normally will not use them for all officers

False. For us civvies? Yes, it is more expensive. However, since LE does not have to buy weapons in the registry their weapons cost only slightly more than a semi-automatic derivative.

Around my area, local LEs use semi-automatic rifles. I have never seen our local SWAT team with MP5s (and I have seen them deployed several times for bomb threats).

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