My AZ CCW dilemma


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BBQJOE
February 2, 2013, 03:44 PM
I have my permit.
AZ no longer requires the permit to carry concealed.
Whether to renew or not is my question.

On the one side, it allows me to purchase firearms without going through the background BS.
On the other side, even though it can really never be said, I feel comfortable with the arms I own, and don't foresee any purchases in the future.

I have never needed to show it to any LEO's, but I believe if I ever do, it shows that I might be a more responsible gun owner than some others.

Having a CCW puts me on someone's list somewhere, for whatever purpose.
Then again, letting it lapse probably still keeps me on the list.

If they ever to decide to repeal non-permitted carry, I'd hate to have to reapply for a permit.

I suppose I ought to just keep it, huh?

Edited to add: I forgot that it also gives me the right to carry in other states.
Never mind, I'll just keep it.:D

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Arp32
February 2, 2013, 03:55 PM
Mine expires soon too, I plan to renew just to avoid the hassle of the background checks. Saved me at least 30 minutes of waiting at a recent gun show.

Plus can't permit holders carry in restaurants that serve alcohol as long as we aren't drinking?

BBQJOE
February 2, 2013, 03:59 PM
Plus can't permit holders carry in restaurants that serve alcohol as long as we aren't drinking?
You know, that's a really good question.
Since they passed no permit necessary to CCW, I don't recall it addressing the restaurant/bar issue as far as needing a permit or not.

I'm pissed. I should know this.

Arp32
February 2, 2013, 04:52 PM
Looks like we can:

http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concealed_Weapons/Questions/#25

My understanding is that this (and the background checks) is one of the few advantages of having a CCW now that you don't "need" one. Also I am convinced having one got me out of a speeding ticket from DPS

MasterSergeantA
February 2, 2013, 04:57 PM
I basically agree with all of the above. Carrying in a restaurant isn't an issue for me. But the ease of processing the 4473 makes it attractive to me (and the dealers like it as well) and the reciprocity helps me as I am often required to travel quite a bit. I try to avoid the occupied territories, but everywhere else, it is handy. Just renewed mine.

BBQJOE
February 2, 2013, 05:02 PM
Well I knew that a permited ccw holder can be in an alcohol serving environment if they don't drink.
The question this raised for me, is does a person have to have a ccw to carry in them, or can anyone now do it since ccw isn't needed to carry ccw.

skeeziks
February 2, 2013, 05:07 PM
Without a doubt I would renew....
But what's all this talk of not having to go thru a background check? I live in FL and have to pay for the NICS even tho I have a CWP.
Is the law different in AZ?

Fryerpower
February 2, 2013, 05:09 PM
If you maintain your permit you will have reciprocity with 36ish states that recognize Arizona's permit.

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Jim

PedalBiker
February 2, 2013, 05:10 PM
It also helps keep you out of trouble in the "gun free school zones".

BBQJOE
February 2, 2013, 05:14 PM
Without a doubt I would renew....
But what's all this talk of not having to go thru a background check? I live in FL and have to pay for the NICS even tho I have a CWP.
Is the law different in AZ?
When purchasing a firearm in AZ when presenting a ccw, no background check is done, just the usual forms.

danez71
February 2, 2013, 08:33 PM
https://www.ccwazschool.com/reason.html

Nine Reasons Why You Still Want the Permit

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed a bill into law, allowing Arizonians 21 and older to carry a concealed weapon without a permit, background check or training class. Of course you’ll still have to legally be able to own and carry a firearm in order to take advantage of the new law.

If no permit were needed, then why does the CCW program still exist, and why are so many people still applying for CCW permits? Even with the passage of the Constitutional Carry law in Arizona, there are many benefits to obtaining a CCW permit. Here are a few
1.Reciprocity -An Arizona CCW permit allows you to carry a concealed weapon in over 30 other states that have a reciprocity agreement with Arizona. Without a permit, Arizona citizens cannot carry in these states.
2.Restaurants Serving Alcohol -An Arizona CCW permit allows you to carry a concealed weapon in restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises (as long as you don't drink and the restaurant doesn't post a sign forbidding the presence of firearms). Without a permit, Arizona citizens cannot carry in establishments that serve alcohol (for example Chili’s, Applebee’s, Z-Tejas, Pea Wei, Chipotle).
3.National Parks - Congress approved a new law allowing loaded firearms in national parks starting Feb. 22, 2010. That means people can openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms and also may carry concealed guns as allowed by state statute. But if I read it right you need a permit to carry a concealed firearm in national parks unless you have a state-issued CCW permit. Without a permit, Arizona citizens cannot carry concealed in Federal Parks (i.e. the Grand Canyon, etc.).
4.Near Schools - Ability to carry a concealed weapon within 1,000 feet of a school. It is almost impossible to travel through the Metropolitan Phoenix area without crossing a 1,000 foot boundary of a school. You will need a permit to conceal carry throughout the valley. (Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act)
5.City of Phoenix ordinances prohibits the possession of a firearm in a city park of 1 square mile or less where posted "Carrying a firearm in this park is limited to persons who possess a permit issued pursuant to A.R.S. § 13-3112." Without a permit, Arizona citizens cannot carry in these city parks.
6.Background Checks -A Concealed Weapon Permit streamlines the purchase of a firearm in that no background check is required.
7.Distinguishing the White Hats from The Possible Black Hats - Law Enforcement nationwide currently uses concealed carry permits across this country to immediately identify a lawful citizen. Having an Arizona CCW helps law enforcement officials determine who to be a good guy because they know you have a CCW permit when they run your plate or license. This not only tells them that you are trained in gun safety and knowledgeable on gun laws, but it also tells them that you have passed Federal background checks and are not mentally unfit or a convicted felon.
8.Legal Defensibility - If you ever had to use a firearm in self-defense, the fact that you have gone through firearms training may help your case if you go to trial.
9.Benefits of Training - The training you receive helps you become a more responsible gun owner by making you aware of the legal ramifications of carrying a firearm, training you on safety issues, and giving you an awareness of the proper mindset you should have if you choose to carry a firearm.

stogiegila
February 2, 2013, 08:45 PM
What Danez said.

Enough said. :cool:

Airbrush Artist
February 2, 2013, 08:46 PM
In Ohio If Police runs your vehicle tags ,It shows on their computers That You Carry,Thats a Good thing....

BBQJOE
February 2, 2013, 09:48 PM
Thanks danez71.
No question in my mind whatsoever now.:)

misanthropic777
February 2, 2013, 10:20 PM
Those are the reasons I'm renewing mine.

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 10:24 PM
As for carrying in a restaurant that serves booze: If you're drinking, best leave it.

If not, carry.

It's the same with driving; the next choice you make after alcohol may be your last.

NavyLCDR
February 2, 2013, 10:29 PM
In Ohio If Police runs your vehicle tags ,It shows on their computers That You Carry,Thats a Good thing....

Absolutely wrong. In Ohio, running the tags on the vehicle returns the name and address of the registered owner of the vehicle, and then they can use the name and address to determine if the registered owner of the vehicle has a concealed handgun license. That information means absolutely nothing until the officer determines that the registered owner of the vehicle is in the vehicle or not - and then, IF they are carrying a gun, they can use that information to cite the person, IF they are carrying a gun, for not informing the police officer if they can get the pen onto the paper before the person carrying the gun has a chance to notify.

meanmrmustard
February 2, 2013, 10:31 PM
In Ohio If Police runs your vehicle tags ,It shows on their computers That You Carry,Thats a Good thing....
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Guess what? You've just been inadvertently admitted to probable cause for search and seizure.

NavyLCDR
February 2, 2013, 10:32 PM
3.National Parks - Congress approved a new law allowing loaded firearms in national parks starting Feb. 22, 2010. That means people can openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms and also may carry concealed guns as allowed by state statute. But if I read it right you need a permit to carry a concealed firearm in national parks unless you have a state-issued CCW permit. Without a permit, Arizona citizens cannot carry concealed in Federal Parks (i.e. the Grand Canyon, etc.).

Wrong. A concealed weapons permit is nowhere mentioned in the National Park Law. The National Parks Law only removed the authorization of the Secretary of Interior to regulate firearms in National Parks. If it is legal to carry a firearm without a permit in a state outside the National Park, it is also legal to carry a firearm inside the National Park in that state without a permit because there can be no additional regulations inside the park other than the state laws.

splithoof
February 3, 2013, 12:32 AM
Everyone should have an Arizona permit, even us folks in California. Although California refuses to recognize the permits from other states, having one for me is partly symbolic (a term our socialist's here like to use frequently). When in discussion with several elected officials about retirement, I have shown it to them, explaining that there is indeed hope at the end of my career, thus being in a "free" state, where I will be moving, and TAKING MY TAX DOLLARS WITH ME. They don't like to hear that, and have said so. Yes, there is satisfaction in causing that kind of irritation. Yea!

danez71
February 3, 2013, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by danez71
3.National Parks - Congress approved a new law allowing loaded firearms in national parks starting Feb. 22, 2010. That means people can openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms and also may carry concealed guns as allowed by state statute. But if I read it right you need a permit to carry a concealed firearm in national parks unless you have a state-issued CCW permit. Without a permit, Arizona citizens cannot carry concealed in Federal Parks (i.e. the Grand Canyon, etc.).



Wrong. A concealed weapons permit is nowhere mentioned in the National Park Law. The National Parks Law only removed the authorization of the Secretary of Interior to regulate firearms in National Parks. If it is legal to carry a firearm without a permit in a state outside the National Park, it is also legal to carry a firearm inside the National Park in that state without a permit because there can be no additional regulations inside the park other than the state laws.

Yes... that info is 1/2 wrong... like being sorta pregnant ;)

The blue part is right.... the red part in wrong. The author contradicted himself.


I think it stems from this:

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upload/Firearms-in-IMRparks2-2010.pdf

A permit is required to carry concealed
weapons. Some concealed-weapons permits
are recognized in multiple states, but many
are not. It is the gun owner’s responsibility to
know and understand what laws apply.


But in that same NPS pdf, the very 1st part says this:

Congress approved a new law allowing loaded
firearms in national parks starting Feb. 22,
2010. That means people can openly carry legal
handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms
and also may carry concealed guns as allowed by
state statute.

AZ doesnt require a permit to CC so in AZ portions of National Parks, no CWP is needed.

almostfree
February 3, 2013, 01:49 PM
I have a non-resident AZ CWP and I have renewed it since the passage of constitutional carry and will continue to do so. This may have changed, but the last time I was in Phoenix, there were signs at Phoenix Mountains park that prohibited carry for individuals without a CWP. I started a thread about it to see if those signs were still applicable and the consensus back then is that they are.

NavyLCDR
February 3, 2013, 01:51 PM
The blue part is right.... the red part in wrong. The author contradicted himself.

The part in blue is only partially correct as well (and, thus, partially incorrect). The word "concealed" nowhere appears in the National Park law either. ANY method of carry that is legal outside the National Park is also legal inside the National Park within the same state, which includes open carry as well as concealed carry in those states where open carry is legal.

When this first came out, many people tried to make the subject a lot more complicated that it was. The law simply did away with any additional regulations that existed exclusively inside National Parks.

BBQJOE
February 3, 2013, 02:01 PM
Please excuse my shiny tinfoil hat for a second...

Another thought that occurred to me, is what if AZ isn't really being a good guy, allowing non-permited CCW, and is trying to lull those with permits to let them expire, so as to pass a no CCW law later that many wouldn't be able to fight because they have no permit?

Arp32
February 3, 2013, 03:18 PM
I wouldn't worry about that chain of events. If that was the goal they'd just make the permits void, as well.

Besides, we live in Arizona. Plenty of stupidity, but not in that direction.

danez71
February 3, 2013, 05:53 PM
The part in blue is only partially correct as well (and, thus, partially incorrect). The word "concealed" nowhere appears in the National Park law either. ANY method of carry that is legal outside the National Park is also legal inside the National Park within the same state, which includes open carry as well as concealed carry in those states where open carry is legal.

When this first came out, many people tried to make the subject a lot more complicated that it was. The law simply did away with any additional regulations that existed exclusively inside National Parks.


The whole sentence of which I only partially made blue is:

That means people can openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms and also may carry concealed guns as allowed by state statute.

Im not sure where the difference is... or where your disagreeance is.


Just because the federal law doeasnt use the word 'concealed' doesnt mean that you cant actually spell out that in regards to both open and concealed, just follow your States' law.

PavePusher
February 3, 2013, 07:00 PM
1. You are already on someone's list. Probably several lists. Why worry about that now?

2. The permit gets you a slight expansion of your Rights, like CC in restaurants that serve alcohol.

3. As you already caught, reciprocity in other states. Since none of my relatives live in Arizona (were I currently reside), that's a big one for me, as I have to travel to see them.

PavePusher
February 3, 2013, 07:02 PM
Well I knew that a permited ccw holder can be in an alcohol serving environment if they don't drink.
The question this raised for me, is does a person have to have a ccw to carry in them, or can anyone now do it since ccw isn't needed to carry ccw.
You must have the permit to CC in an establishment that serves alcohol.

www.handgunlaw.us

Twiki357
February 4, 2013, 03:33 AM
What Danez71 said, EXCEPT for number 7. AZ is one of the states that do not report individuals with mental problems and, as far as I know, there is no tie-in in AZ between a CCW holder and his/her drivers (or vehicle) license

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