Chris kyle shot dead


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Kim
February 3, 2013, 12:01 AM
Just breaking Chris Kyle author of "American Sniper" killed at charity for wounded vets by another vet who turned his gun on him.

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mljdeckard
February 3, 2013, 12:03 AM
This is terrible, my heart goes out to his wife and children. I have read his book, this man was a true warrior.

Kim
February 3, 2013, 12:04 AM
Discussion on Free Republic. The guy stole his truck and made a run for it. They have him. Happened at a charity shoot at a resort in TX. Close to Lawrence.

splithoof
February 3, 2013, 12:06 AM
Link?
I extend prayers for his family.
Without knowing any details, it reminds me why those who have seen the elephant don't generally say much about in public.

Kim
February 3, 2013, 12:08 AM
Chris was working with vets who had PTSD. They are saying the marine killed Chris and his neighbor.

Kim
February 3, 2013, 12:09 AM
The killer is Eddie Routh.

jdo1911
February 3, 2013, 12:14 AM
http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Famed-Navy-SEAL-Chris-Kyle-shot-killed-in-N-Texas-189539281.html

colorado_handgunner
February 3, 2013, 12:15 AM
Sad.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

hso
February 3, 2013, 12:17 AM
That's horrible!

Deltaboy
February 3, 2013, 12:19 AM
Prayers sent for his family and friends.

Cesiumsponge
February 3, 2013, 12:19 AM
Just saw this news posted by Thunder Ranch :(

PRAYER NOW PLEASE: As you know I have not been on the news but as some of you just posted...Chris Kyle was along with another instructor were murdered today at a range they were helping others.
I just got off the phone with one of Chris's friends who is an active Seal who confirmed that yes this is true. We need to pray for Chris's wife and children right now. There are other details but I can not share at this point...but it is confirmed that he is gone and we are heartbroken. We will post information on how to help the family in the next few days and as I get info I can share I will pass it on....now...lets pray. Heidi

22-rimfire
February 3, 2013, 12:20 AM
Sad. Very sad. Can't believe what people do sometimes. Makes no sense.

rugerdude
February 3, 2013, 12:24 AM
The injustice here is absolutely unfathomable.

InkEd
February 3, 2013, 12:25 AM
I hope the murder gets the death penalty.

Cesiumsponge
February 3, 2013, 12:30 AM
Okay, it sounds like the murderer was possibly another PTSD vet. That makes it doubly sad.
Chris had been volunteering his time to help Marine Corps veterans suffering from PTSD and mentoring them. Part of this process involved taking these veterans to the range where one of them snapped and killed Chris and his neighbor for reasons that remain unknown at this time. The perpetrator then stole Chris’ vehicle in an attempt to escape but we have received word that the police have since arrested him.

http://sofrep.com/16838/chris-kyle-another-brother-lost/

gpurp
February 3, 2013, 12:40 AM
Senseless and unfathomable. I had picked up his book a few weeks ago for a business trip and have maybe 25 pages to go. Prayers go out to family, friends, and yes even the murderer.

Ms_Dragon
February 3, 2013, 12:42 AM
My heart and prayers go out to his family and friends.

I also spare a thought for the shooter's family who will be devastated at what their loved one has done.

I hope everyone involved will find the love and support they need at this time.

mljdeckard
February 3, 2013, 12:46 AM
If you read his book, it makes it even worse. It has inserts from his wife, how she was feeling at certain times in his career, and it made me reflect on my own marriage that ended as a result of my deployment. She remarked; "Everyone depends on this man but me. Total strangers can depend on him to protect them, but I can't count on him to choose to stay home for once." He left the military to save his marriage, and was successful, and now this.

PGT
February 3, 2013, 12:46 AM
FFS. Uggh. :-(

http://www.thecraft.com/AboutUs.html

Chief Chris Kyle (USN, honorably discharged in 2009) is one of the top snipers in the history of the American armed forces. From 1999 to 2009, he recorded the most career sniper kills in United States military history. Iraqi insurgents feared Chief Kyle so much they named him al-Shaitan ("the devil") and placed a bounty on his head. His extensive combat experience includes sniping, close-quarters battle, reconnaissance, long-range desert patrols, personal security and the training for foreign allies. In addition to working and training with the elite Navy SEALs, Chief Kyle has also served with units from the Army, Marine Corps and other government agencies.

SEAL Team 3 Chief Chris Kyle served four combat tours in Operation Iraqi Freedom and elsewhere. For his bravery in battle, he was awarded two Silver Stars, five Bronze Stars with Valor, two Navy and Marine Corp Achievement Medals, and one Navy and Marine Corps commendation. Additionally, he received the Grateful Nation Award, given by the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs. Following his combat deployments, he became chief instructor for training Naval Special Warfare Sniper and Counter-Sniper teams, and he authored the Naval Special Warfare Sniper Doctrine, the first Navy SEAL sniper manual.

rcmodel
February 3, 2013, 12:55 AM
Sad situation.
But, as an old vet myself, this is very Cold for me to say for some of you.
And many of you will not understand it at all.

But Live by the sword, Die by the sword.

It's always been true throughout history.

Sometimes it's just time to hang it up when you retire from killing people for a living and find another line of work before you die by the sword yourself.

rc

usmarine0352_2005
February 3, 2013, 12:56 AM
RIP. A true warrior.



Now this will bring mental health issues, PTSD, vets, and guns into the spotlight.

FitGunner
February 3, 2013, 12:57 AM
Extremely sad. I was working on bringing Chris out to help open a new VA clinic. My prayers go out to his family. Rest in Peace Chris.

Prophet
February 3, 2013, 12:59 AM
Just rec'd word from a saddened Marine who heard the early reports. Horrible news. Chris Kyle was killed while still in service to his country as far as I am concerned.

Prayers go out for all involved.

usmarine0352_2005
February 3, 2013, 01:04 AM
Sad situation.
But, as an old vet myself, this is very Cold for me to say for some of you.
And many of you will not understand it at all.

But Live by the sword, Die by the sword.

It's always been true throughout history.

Sometimes it's just time to hang it up when you retire from killing people for a living and find another line of work before you die by the sword yourself.

rc





What?



He was trying to help his fellow vet who had PTSD issues.




What have you done to help your fellow vets? That comment is not highroad at all.
.

JohnnyK
February 3, 2013, 01:18 AM
rc that is cold.... i read his book not long ago Chris was a great American... r.i.p.

Deus Machina
February 3, 2013, 01:26 AM
Really, RC.
You expect to die in the field. Not with friends and comrades.

splithoof
February 3, 2013, 01:29 AM
I think rc was looking at a bigger picture. While a sad, tragic end, it does not surprise me.

mnhntr
February 3, 2013, 01:29 AM
Sad sad day for the spec ops community, the Kyle family, and all the people who know this American hero.

rcmodel
February 3, 2013, 01:30 AM
I know he was a great GI, and a great American.

So were many of my old dear friends who had PTSD from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.
Before any of us, myself included, knew what PTSD was.

Some of them fell on the sword later in life, long after it was over.
And they shouldn't have tried to continue in that line of work anymore and make a living off of it.


I'm sorry.
But you either know fellow vets like that and understand it.
Or you don't.

There is nothing I can do about that either.

rc

USAF_Vet
February 3, 2013, 01:50 AM
That sucks.

I reay don't know what else to say.

Damnit. That just sucks.

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 01:53 AM
I know he was a great GI, and a great American.

So were many of my old dear friends who had PTSD from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.
Before any of us, myself included, knew what PTSD was.

Some of them fell on the sword later in life, long after it was over.
And they shouldn't have tried to continue in that line of work anymore and make a living off of it.


I'm sorry.
But you either know fellow vets like that and understand it.
Or you don't.

There is nothing I can do about that either.

rc
Falling on the sword and having it thrust into you by those you try to help are vastly different.

Lincoln4
February 3, 2013, 02:03 AM
Damnit...

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

gspn
February 3, 2013, 02:24 AM
Really, RC.
You expect to die in the field. Not with friends and comrades.
+1. That is the only interpretation of that phrase...you live or die on the field of battle...not at home helping others recover.

And I'm a veteran...and I'm a hard and callous mo-fo.

Evergreen
February 3, 2013, 02:26 AM
Horribly sad.. I don't know what to say.. I have dealt with veterans who have had issues. My father is a Vietnam Vet.. I understand why RC says what he says.. But killing your own comrade, there is never an excuse..

No sympathy for the one who killed such a brave and noble soldier.

I give tons of sympathy, love and respect to Chris Kyle and his family.

rcmodel
February 3, 2013, 02:38 AM
Falling on the sword and having it thrust into you by those you try to help are vastly different.Kinda like my old army buddy who got beat to death with a coffee table leg by another Vietnam vet a few years ago?

He was trying to help him too.

But he hadn't written a book, or continued to try to "Live the Life" in BDU's and Original Instructor Belts, and make a living off of it after his discharge either.

So nobody gave a dam.
And nobody except his family and a few other vets who served with him even know who he was a few years later.

He was just another unknown Vietnam vet with a bronze star who was in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing, by trying to help another vet with problems like him.

I totally agree this Chris Kyle killing is a tragedy, and it should never have happened.
But I contend all the 5th. Army snipers I served with and built rifles for didn't come home from Vietnam and try to make a living off of it by writing books and going on TV shows like they are doing now.

But that was then, and this is now, and I should shut up!
Some of this simply can't be communicated well, or at all, unless.
Well unless!


rc

meanmrmustard
February 3, 2013, 02:40 AM
Kinda like my old army buddy who got beat to death with a coffee table leg by another Vietnam vet a few years ago?

He was trying to help him too.

But he hadn't written a book, or continued to try to "Live the Life" in BDU's and Original Instructor Belts, and make a living off of it after his discharge either.

So nobody gave a dam.
And nobody except his family and a few other vets who served with him even know who he was a few years later.

He was just another unknown Vietnam vet with a bronze star who was in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing, by trying to help another vet with problems like him.

rc
Which is ok? Where is it in reality that being killed by a fellow comrade is acceptable, or at the least, passable?

USAF_Vet
February 3, 2013, 02:50 AM
RC, your friends death is no less, and no more, tragic than Chris Kyle.

Yes, Chris had made a name for himself, but a lot of that was thrust upon him.

It's awful when any vet gets killed, but it happens. It's senseless and tragic and it sucks, but it happens.

Do the senseless deaths of our veterans deserve more attention? Who knows. I just want to be left alone, and when I die, however I die, I don't want to be made an example of.

I never met Chief Kyle, nor did I follow his career or his civilian endeavors very closely. Still, the loss of men like him, and like your friend simply suck. There's no way to justify senseless murders, and trying doesn't do any good. It just rubs people the wrong way.

DammitBoy
February 3, 2013, 02:52 AM
Rest easy Chief, we have the Watch.

Semper Fi - fair winds and following seas...

panhead58ak
February 3, 2013, 02:59 AM
What a sad sad day He was a true hero who went out of his way to teach what he learned to others to help stop the bad guys

slamfirev10
February 3, 2013, 03:02 AM
man, sad

rip

CmdrSlander
February 3, 2013, 03:04 AM
RIP

Once the 24 hour news cycle picks up on this is it will be held up as an example of the violence inherent in the gun culture, just you watch... gotta push the agenda.

Cosmoline
February 3, 2013, 03:33 AM
Who knows whether the killer was a vet and seriously, who cares? By murdering people and taking their stuff, the killer gave up any honor he may theoretically have had and became just another worthless goblin. A waste of salt.

And this isn't the first time a goblin has killed a vet who survived the horrors of war. It happened to a soldier back from Iraq at a bar not half a block from my work. Don't let your guard down. The punks can absolutely kill even the strongest.

RIP

Additionally, there is once again some notion that PTSD may have contributed to the murder. Please don't spread this nonsense. PTSD does not make anyone into a murderer. If some yahoo decides to shoot someone or beat them to death with a table leg, that ain't PTSD. Maybe it's some kind of psychotic disorder, or maybe it's just an evil choice. But it isn't PTSD. This nonsense keeps getting spread by those who ought to know better, and in the end every vet with PTSD is deemed a potential mass murderer by co-workers, bosses and friends. It's an ANXIETY DISORDER folks. It doesn't mean your damned cereal is telling you to kill people.

BLB68
February 3, 2013, 03:42 AM
If the "goblin" was a vet with PTSD, I think it's a bit out of line to be calling him a "goblin."

Actually, let's leave phrases like "goblin" to the gun rag hacks. Sounds too much like "gook" to me.

If you need to dehumanize people to bring yourself to fire on them, maybe you need to reevaluate some things.

ETA:


Additionally, there is once again some notion that PTSD may have contributed to the murder.

Perhaps not PTSD by itself, but sometimes it's just the tip of the iceberg. That's not saying everybody with PTSD is dangerous, but it's silly to think that some aren't.

Cosmoline
February 3, 2013, 03:47 AM
If the "goblin" was a vet with PTSD, I think it's a bit out of line to be calling him a "goblin."

Goblin is a title that's earned. If he murdered two men and took their truck, then he's a goblin. Whatever else he did or didn't do is irrelevant. He's a worthless waste of salt and nothing else. I don't have any respect for those who will murder in cold blood. Esp. when someone is trying to help them out. A person like that will kill his wife, his kids, or YOUR wife and YOUR kids. He's no good.

Some people are garbage when they go into the military and garbage when they come out. Obviously this guy was one of them. Not the military's fault. The sole responsibility is on the shooter's hands. And I hope they burn him for it.

That's not saying everybody with PTSD is dangerous, but it's silly to think that some aren't.

I'm not aware of military trauma causing ANYONE to become a murderer and thief. Anxiety disorders don't lead to schizophrenia. That's an urban legend and does a disservice to those vets suffering from legitimate war-related disorders.

BLB68
February 3, 2013, 03:50 AM
If he murdered two men and took their truck, then he's a goblin. .

I think you also missed the larger point that "goblin" is a juvenile term. Or does the guy hang out near Mordor on his days off?

Cosmoline
February 3, 2013, 03:59 AM
I'm afraid the better terms violate the house rules.

BLB68
February 3, 2013, 04:07 AM
Probably true. I just generally dislike the concept.

chris in va
February 3, 2013, 04:12 AM
I talked with a psychologist at the VA when I got some surgery done. He said the condition these guys are in coming back from overseas is terrible and there's a huge need for mental health professionals. Much of it is addiction to pain meds the military is so adept at handing out.

BLB68
February 3, 2013, 04:21 AM
Our current crop of vets are having a lot of problems with brain injuries from IEDs. This can affect people in a lot of ways, including bizarre and violent behavior.

A lot of pro football players have had a similar issue, to the point of where they're donating their brains to a "brain bank" to study the issue. Apparently the condition they suffer from can't be diagnosed until post mortem.

Trent
February 3, 2013, 04:51 AM
Getting shot at the shooting range is one of my fears that I can never fully dispel.

When there are "unknowns" around I have my guard fully up.

When there are friends around I have my guard fully up. And advise them to watch each other's backs, if there are unknowns around.

And I have a loaded gun in my pocket at all times when I'm alone, or first to arrive, or last to leave, unlocking or locking the gate. And my head is on a swivel.

It's sad that someone who served our country died in this fashion.

But, see a lesson in his death. Learn something from it. That way it's not wasted.

My .02.

Skylerbone
February 3, 2013, 05:43 AM
Definitely a sad day for his family, friends and those he helped mentor. I don't find rc's words cold at all, just simple truths as old as man. It takes a very unique person to do what is asked of veterans, to defy self-preservation by enlisting while, at the same time acquiring skills to save you from that very thing, being a soldier.

I should imagine any man who has done what Chief Kyle did should want nothing more to do with the mess. So, as rc pointed out, live by it, die by it. I know personally more than one vet I would never turn my back on, I have stared down the barrel of a loaded rife raised to shoot. I respect those who defend our nation but I do not seek out the company of dangerous men, even for good intent.

May he rest in peace.

Hatchett
February 3, 2013, 05:45 AM
Additionally, there is once again some notion that PTSD may have contributed to the murder. Please don't spread this nonsense. PTSD does not make anyone into a murderer. If some yahoo decides to shoot someone or beat them to death with a table leg, that ain't PTSD. Maybe it's some kind of psychotic disorder, or maybe it's just an evil choice. But it isn't PTSD. This nonsense keeps getting spread by those who ought to know better, and in the end every vet with PTSD is deemed a potential mass murderer by co-workers, bosses and friends. It's an ANXIETY DISORDER folks. It doesn't mean your damned cereal is telling you to kill people.
I can only hope that we as a country are at a point where this sort of call is left to educated mental health experts and not people who rant about goblins and people's value in "salt."

Blackstone
February 3, 2013, 06:52 AM
I was just lent his book by a friend a few days ago and was halfway through. So tragic, RIP :(

freyasman
February 3, 2013, 07:47 AM
I am preparing to retire after 20yrs of Active Duty, and I can assure you the vets we have right now are in for a VERY hard road ahead. Its no mystery to anyone in service why the suicide rate is through the roof; hopelessness and helplessness; and a person who is willing to kill himself, has no problem bringing others along for the ride. I was given a copy of the book by a friend of mine and its in my desk drawer.... I think I'll pull it out and get started on it.

"Lo, there do I see my Father....
Lo, there do I see my Mother and my Sisters and my Brothers....
Lo, there do I see the line of my people, going back to the beginning...
They do call to me...
And bid me take my place among them...
In the Halls of Folkvanger and Valhalla...
Where the Brave may live forever!"

CharlieDeltaJuliet
February 3, 2013, 09:01 AM
Very sad news... I just heard about it this morning...

clutch
February 3, 2013, 09:11 AM
Chief Kyle, I thank you for your service to this nation and your service to those who have served. RIP

Pilot
February 3, 2013, 09:27 AM
Very sad, and a tragic loss. I don't see him as really using his combat skills the way he was doing as "living by the sword". If he had become a mercenary/contractor, maybe, but to me I don't think that is a dishonorable way to make a living either. If we don't have enough sworn in troops to do certain jobs, what's wrong with a private firm filling in? To me it is akin to those that work in the defense industry making weapons, and being technical advisors. Nothing wrong with it, IMHO.

He was helping vets that had PTSD. I think that is very admirable. If he made a living from his prior service and skills also, more power to him.

RIP.

4v50 Gary
February 3, 2013, 09:30 AM
A fair wind to carry you to Valhalla Chris. RIP and condolences to his family.

zeek96
February 3, 2013, 09:31 AM
Tragic loss, thoughts and prayers to the family.

cacoltguy
February 3, 2013, 09:49 AM
Terrible news

On a side note I'm kind of getting tired of "PTSD" being used to explain away everything bad a serviceman does. For the record I served in Iraq in combat. In my opinion this is nothing more than a symptom of a culture and society that has lost its way morally. These guys are part of a generation raised by single mom's, video games, and a morally corrupted entertainment industry. Now we have half of them claiming PTSD so they can collect a disability check for life and use it to explain away every dumb thing they do in life. I never heard of a soldier from WWII doing things like this, never heard of Civil War soldiers going on rampages (way more stressful and traumatic wars than Iraq or Afghanistan) And yes guys got plenty of concussions (probably more so) from explosions in those conflicts as well so that comment about "IED's and brain damage" is nonsense. Let's face it, something has changed in society and it's not the brutal nature of war. PTSD is just a scapegoat being used to explain away the failure to accept personal responsibility.

Skyshot
February 3, 2013, 10:15 AM
Sad situation.
But, as an old vet myself, this is very Cold for me to say for some of you.
And many of you will not understand it at all.

But Live by the sword, Die by the sword.

It's always been true throughout history.

Sometimes it's just time to hang it up when you retire from killing people for a living and find another line of work before you die by the sword yourself.

rc
I kind of thought the same thing. Very tragic but, I believe Mr. Kyle left this world doing what he wanted to do. As for PTSD, you can never know what demons are in a mans brain. Sometimes it is just a thin line that keeps one from crossing into insanity. The demons came out in this man, hence, I see RC's point of view.

herkyguy
February 3, 2013, 10:21 AM
He proved himself on the battlefield and in interviews it was readily apparent that he was a patriot above all else....

Droid noob
February 3, 2013, 10:23 AM
This is horrible. To make it through numerous tours, then be cut down by your own.

Double Naught Spy
February 3, 2013, 10:37 AM
Very sad news indeed - a terrible shame.

This drives home the fact that shootings most definitely can and do happen at gun ranges and can and do happen to highly skilled people. Just because you are at a gun range, don't think that you are safe from bad people. These incidents are rare, but they can even happen to the best.

monotonous_iterancy
February 3, 2013, 10:56 AM
These guys are part of a generation raised by single mom's, video games, and a morally corrupted entertainment industry. Now we have half of them claiming PTSD so they can collect a disability check for life and use it to explain away every dumb thing they do in life. I never heard of a soldier from WWII doing things like this, never heard of Civil War soldiers going on rampages (way more stressful and traumatic wars than Iraq or Afghanistan)

At first I thought you were claiming that PTSD isn't real, which is mistaken. It was called "Soldiers Heart" in the Civil War, and "Shell shock" in WWI. Upon re-reading, I realize that you're not doubting it's existence, but rather the number of claims of it today.

I have no personal experience with PTSD, but could this increased rate be due the fact that it's more socially acceptable to talk about it in years past?

Or could the current generation of veterans is less adapt at processing what happened to them?

xXxplosive
February 3, 2013, 11:00 AM
Why I don't go to public ranges any more...........swept way too may times.

OptimusPrime
February 3, 2013, 11:27 AM
I think I have discovered the real benefit of a public thread forum like this; open air therapy. Reading all of these posts from front to back is a brief descent into our own internal thoughts/fears/rationalizations. This forum is really serving as a microcosm of a grief cycle. All of us have these same conflicting emotions occurring in our minds when we learn about prominent events like this.

We all think it's a real tragedy for a patriot to lose his life. We all say a prayer for a husband father and son taken too soon. We all appreciate the service, the record, the continuance of helping fellow vets. We also all know that there's a risk involved in a high-profile status. We all know that guns and gun paraphenalia have a certain degree of danger (that we mitigate as professionally as possible of course). The yin and yang in our minds alternates between shock and trying to grasp meaning in tragedies with a certain "darker" element that whispers "at least he went honorably as a soldier would prefer." Yes a soldier expects it on a battlefield but that day had passed. The next closest thing is a firing range, and that appears to be what he sought. More honorable than falling off a ladder and no less of a loss to his family.

Everyone posting here is right; just at different stages of coping with the news.
God bless; Chief Kyle.

Vurtle
February 3, 2013, 12:30 PM
I have been wanting to meet him for a long time. That will never happen now. I hope his family will manage through this crisis in a positive way. He has left a legend and his kids will hopefully have that legend to guide them through their lives. My grandfather was a legend in my community and died when I was very young. To this day, people still remind me of the character he had and all though I barely remember him I know exactly who he was and who I should be because of him. I hope Chris's kids benefit the same.

Cosmoline
February 3, 2013, 01:32 PM
I can only hope that we as a country are at a point where this sort of call is left to educated mental health experts and not people who rant about goblins and people's value in "salt."

It will be left to a Texas jury, and I'm completely satisfied with that. The criminal's lawyer can come up with whatever lame justifications he can. He can blame it on brain injury or PTSD or too many video games.

Personally I'm sick of criminals, I'm sick of psychos shooting good people down and I'm sick of the lame excuses.

BBQJOE
February 3, 2013, 02:32 PM
I've read a number of the articles.

Would someone please provide one that says anything about it being a charity event.

Much needed, thanks.

BCCL
February 3, 2013, 03:54 PM
I doubt it was an organized event, I saw a report earlier, that they arrived there around 3:30 and the bodies were found about 5:30, so it doesn't sound like anyone else was there but them.

Inebriated
February 3, 2013, 04:00 PM
From what I read, he and the other man that were killed both knew the shooter, and were supposedly friends.

Sad, indeed. I wish the families the best.

Evergreen
February 3, 2013, 04:08 PM
Terrible news

On a side note I'm kind of getting tired of "PTSD" being used to explain away everything bad a serviceman does. For the record I served in Iraq in combat. In my opinion this is nothing more than a symptom of a culture and society that has lost its way morally. These guys are part of a generation raised by single mom's, video games, and a morally corrupted entertainment industry. Now we have half of them claiming PTSD so they can collect a disability check for life and use it to explain away every dumb thing they do in life. I never heard of a soldier from WWII doing things like this, never heard of Civil War soldiers going on rampages (way more stressful and traumatic wars than Iraq or Afghanistan) And yes guys got plenty of concussions (probably more so) from explosions in those conflicts as well so that comment about "IED's and brain damage" is nonsense. Let's face it, something has changed in society and it's not the brutal nature of war. PTSD is just a scapegoat being used to explain away the failure to accept personal responsibility.
I agree with you in the fact that our society tries to stamp a single label on very complicated issues. We are at the mercy of psychiatrists and miracle drugs to solve all our problems. My father is a Vietnam Veteran and he has said the same thing as you do.


It will be left to a Texas jury, and I'm completely satisfied with that. The criminal's lawyer can come up with whatever lame justifications he can. He can blame it on brain injury or PTSD or too many video games.

Personally I'm sick of criminals, I'm sick of psychos shooting good people down and I'm sick of the lame excuses.
I agree with you as well.. The murderer deserves no honor and no respect. Many brave soldiers risk their lives and endured horrible hardships to save their fellow soldiers lives. This man in cold blood, murdered a very brave and noble soldier. His death is not just a loss for his family and friends, it's a loss for our entire country. The man who shot him will probably spend the rest of his life in prison/mental institution, with a free TV/entertainment, weight equip, food, shelter all paid by our tax dollars. Whatever led to him being a murderer doesn't diffuse my anger for this injustice.

PGT
February 3, 2013, 04:14 PM
CNN coverage: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/03/justice/texas-sniper-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

They didn't miss the chance to get an AK-47 reference in. < rolleyes >

Ms_Dragon
February 3, 2013, 04:42 PM
Texas still has the death penalty, right?

gym
February 3, 2013, 04:48 PM
***, this is getting rediculous. Prayers go out

helitack32f1
February 3, 2013, 05:35 PM
I was devastated to hear of this news this morning. I had heard of Chris Kyle due to his record as a sniper but got to really see the humanity of the guy when he was on the reality show Stars Earn Stripes. He seemed to be a very confident yet likable and down to earth guy and seemingly humble and caring person, as evidenced by his work and concern for fellow soldiers and their well-being.

While some may disagree with his choice to be on television, I relish the fact that I had the opportunity to see the personality and humanity of Mr. Kyle as well as some other very accomplished heroes as they worked with inexperienced celebrities on this show for charity.

As I understand it, Chris Kyle and another concerned buddy were helping a guy, apparently suffering from PTSD, by taking him to the range where he gunned them down. Kyle was in the process of setting up a benefit shooting competition to take place in March or something. I think these two stories may have become mixed to give some the impression that this shooting actually occurred at a charity shooting competition.

I am deeply saddened by this loss and grieve for his wife and two children.

SharpsDressedMan
February 3, 2013, 05:55 PM
I think what RCModel stated was just a detached observation. No malice intended. I have wondered if the same might happen to me at times. Kind of like the end of the "Shootist". Carry a gun all your life, and the spritual or Kharma odds might catch up with you even after you retire.

Airbrush Artist
February 3, 2013, 05:58 PM
I wonder how the Media and Obama and Biden will slant this horrific Murder to their pathetic Agenda? if they surround themselves with Children nothing is off limits..

hueyville
February 3, 2013, 06:23 PM
Yes this is sad, prayers for the.survivors, etc. What rcmodel said I totally understand and don't see.any offence. It is just as sad when a veteran or civilian gets killed in an auto wreck. Just less spew on the television and internet about it. Last trip to the local indoor range where I only went due to only place.and time I could schedule a class with a particular student. It was hot in the range. When we exited where they have a little lounge I unbuttoned my overalls and slipped out of a threat level 3a vest with level 4 trauma plates. Since I am 157 pounds nobody noticed till I actively removed it. Most patrons were surprised and asked why the vest. I replied bluntly that I don't know none of y'all, don't trust y'all with my life and from what I just saw in there most of you need to either learn to shoot, learn range safety or sell your.guns because half of you are accidents waiting to happen. They employee working.behind the counter broke up laughing. A good many of the patrons were upset at my comments.

Browning
February 3, 2013, 06:51 PM
I think what RCModel stated was just a detached observation. No malice intended. I have wondered if the same might happen to me at times. Kind of like the end of the "Shootist". Carry a gun all your life, and the spritual or Kharma odds might catch up with you even after you retire.
Malice intended or no maybe RCModel should go form a club with Jessie Ventura.

This whole idea that Kyle somehow 'had it coming' for killing in the service of his country, for continuing to shoot and opening up a training school, for having the audacity to write about his experiences and helping Servicemen and women who might be having trouble adjusting to civilian life is ridiculous to the point of stupidity.

Whatever, continuing this conversation is pointless and if it isn't a good example of Schadenfreude I don't know what is.

Hopefully the wives and children of both men adjust to life without a father and husband and hopefully the murderer gets what's coming to him.

Ms_Dragon
February 3, 2013, 06:55 PM
Hahahah! Ain't that the truth and the truth hurts Hueyville.

The looks on their faces would have been priceless.

flip888
February 3, 2013, 07:27 PM
i just got his book. its sad to hear hes dead. i cant imagine why the murderer wanted to kill him.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
February 3, 2013, 07:39 PM
I know of several people who suddenly died. They each had someone out to get them.

It made me wonder, did they really die, or did they change their identity to start a new life? I'm sure it's no fun going around looking over your shoulder everywhere you go.

Not saying this didn't happen, my prayers go to his family and friends. Just something to ponder. We will never know.

Double Naught Spy
February 3, 2013, 07:44 PM
Why I don't go to public ranges any more...........swept way too may times.

This obviously wasn't an issue with being swept by a gun at a public range. This was a double murder at a high dollar resort range called Rough Creek Lodge and Resort. Check out the prices...
http://www.roughcreek.com/shooting-sports/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/american-sniper-author-chris-kyle-fatally-shot-article-1.1254181

Ms_Dragon
February 3, 2013, 08:01 PM
What the devil has the price of the resort have to do with anything?

Rembrandt
February 3, 2013, 08:10 PM
.......But he hadn't written a book, or continued to try to "Live the Life" in BDU's and Original Instructor Belts, and make a living off of it after his discharge either.......Army snipers I served with and built rifles for didn't come home from Vietnam and try to make a living off of it by writing books and going on TV shows like they are doing now.


Sounds like resentment for the path he chose after getting out. Nothing new here, others have written books and a few autobiographical movies. Sgt. Alvin York, Audey Murphy, Carlos Hathcock, Jesse Ventura, John McCain, Scott Grady and lots of retired Generals. Ulysses S. Grant, Omar Bradley, Eisenhower, Swartzkopf, Powell, Petraus, Franks, and many more.

jman74
February 3, 2013, 10:06 PM
What the devil has the price of the resort have to do with anything?
I think the comment was in reference that this was not an accident, but a intentional double homicide.

Double Naught Spy
February 3, 2013, 11:05 PM
I think the comment was in reference that this was not an accident, but a intentional double homicide.

Actually it has everything to do with the comment about public ranges. Public ranges are often known for being less well run, in part from being less well funded and are often inexpensive places for people to shoot and we see lots of complaints about all the yahoos showing up.

Rough Creek is a high dollar facility, at least by comparison to the majority of Texas ranges. It isn't going to be a typical public range where you all sorts of yahoos banging away in a less than fully controlled/muzzle disciplined manner and the type of situation that a lot of us don't like about public ranges. The numbers of folks present are going to be typically lower as a higher dollar resort facility...which is apparently the very specific case as noted here where Chris Kyle, Chad Littlefield, and the shooter (goblin, bad guy, or whatever you want to call him) were apparently the only people on the range and as a result not noticed as in trouble until after being found shot to death.

Evergreen
February 3, 2013, 11:51 PM
This person was as capable of stopping a crazed killer any place, anywhere as anybody here. As sad as I am to say this, this man was killed by a person he trusted. This could have happened to anybody, anywhere. Whether it happened in a luxury golf club or in the middle of nowhere in the desert, it doesn't matter. If some crazed killer you trust pulls a gun on you and shoots you while you are not looking, you are as good as finished, usually.

There is a reason why serial killers are very effective at what they do. They are generally people you trust and who seem like reputable and respected people. These people thrive off of this image to find their victims when they are most vulnerable to attack.

Sadly, Chris Kyle put his trust in the wrong person. Anybody you go shooting with, is someone you trust your life with.

This is sad, but I think all the hypotheses and theories of why this happened is useless. It's time to face the music of life.

I really don't even know if there is anything that could be said. Maybe the only advice I can give is spend a month getting to know somebody before you go and turn your back to them, while they are holding a gun. If you are not willing to do that, then you will just have to face there is always a risk. Even I am not willing to do that, as if I meet somebody I think I like, I'd probably just go out and go shooting with him. Done it many times, with people who were still mostly strangers.

If a Navy Seal and hero like Chris Kyle couldn't have stopped this murder, don't expect that you easily could have. Nobody ever expects a friend or a person they trust to murder them.

4v50 Gary
February 4, 2013, 12:25 AM
Here's something from Arfcom. Purportedly the killer's family did not want him released from the mental hospital.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1435347_mom_just_called_____Chris_Kyle_related_.html

Double Naught Spy
February 4, 2013, 12:56 AM
I have not been able to verify that elsewhere about begging to not let him be let out (but certainly may be plausible), but found this interesting about Kyle, which might support the notion that he had taken Routh to the range to help him.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20130203-alleged-shooter-of-navy-seal-chris-kyle-tasered-after-becoming-aggressive-with-jailers.ece

Kyle had his own struggles after returning from Iraq. He found it hard to adjust to civilian life and was depressed. His journey inspired him to help other veterans by taking them on trips to shoot, hunt or relax.

“If these guys are out there sacrificing for me, I feel like it’s my duty to give to them when they come home — no matter what it’ll be,” Kyle told The Dallas Morning News in 2012.

Kyle started Dallas-based security firm Craft International, which hosted training events at the gun range where he was killed. Kyle also helped found FITCO Cares Foundation, which provides home exercise equipment to injured veterans and those struggling with PTSD.

BHP FAN
February 4, 2013, 01:35 AM
he had hung up his sword...in 2009.

rtz
February 4, 2013, 01:47 AM
Maybe I missed it; what was the motive? We should know by now.

Double Naught Spy
February 4, 2013, 02:47 AM
No known motive made public yet.

REPOMAN
February 4, 2013, 10:39 AM
RIP_____ Chris & Chad....... Thank you both for your service and everything that you all had been doing to help your fellow soldiers in need..... Prayers going out to all involved especially the families, wives, and children of Chris and Chad.....

horsemen61
February 4, 2013, 10:58 AM
Rip

Akita1
February 4, 2013, 11:35 AM
Sad situation.
But, as an old vet myself, this is very Cold for me to say for some of you.
And many of you will not understand it at all.

But Live by the sword, Die by the sword.

It's always been true throughout history.

Sometimes it's just time to hang it up when you retire from killing people for a living and find another line of work before you die by the sword yourself.

rc
Cold is definitely right, perhaps even inappropriate...but will defend your right to express your view. As I often say on this forum, the BOR does not come with a multiple choice option...

Having said that: he was retired, not active duty. He was shooting targets, not enemy combatants. He likely saved more lives than he took during active duty.

If you're saying that Karma came calling or something of that nature, not sure any of us have the universal knowledge to accurately decipher such things. In my experience we do that to rationalize circumstances we can not possibly understand.

IMHO we should show some respect for a fallen hero, let his loved ones grieve and have a scientific discussion later.

Ehtereon11B
February 4, 2013, 11:46 AM
I never had the opportunity to meet the man but was scheduled to meet him at a conference in March and maybe get him to sign my copy of American Sniper. Very sad day indeed for the military community.

788Ham
February 4, 2013, 12:58 PM
cacoltguy, post #62,

I've never heard this put so poignantly, in such words to not leave one wondering what was just said. Truly sad one of the militaries best was cut low in such a sad, sad way.

RIP Chris, Semper Fi

Viet Nam Vet

gym
February 4, 2013, 01:10 PM
As I said I deeply regret this happening, but please don't allow this to influence some kind of forced Karma thing. I was almost killed with no gun, and survived with a gun on more than one occasion. If I had my choice, as I am sure Chris would have wanted, I would choose to be armed.
If you are unarmed you have no say in the matter, in this case it was a sneaky coward who shot him, but many times you can see it coming, and to not be armed is to have no control over your life, and that of others.
Having had it both ways I swore I would never give anyone the power of deciding if I live or die, without having a say in that decision.
If you are unarmed, you have no say, unfortunatelly in this case he didn't see it coming, which can happen to any of us. It was fast and hopefully painless, but I am sure if he could have seen it coming, it would have ended differentlly.

Outlaw Man
February 4, 2013, 03:13 PM
I was fortunate enough to meet Chris Kyle (very) briefly at the SHOT Show this year. I couldn't imagine meeting a nicer, more upstanding guy. Got him to sign an autograph for my brother who is currently in the Navy. He signed it, "thank you for your service." That a guy who has given so much for his country still feels the need to thank others for their service tells me all I need to know. America lost a great guy.

HoosierQ
February 4, 2013, 03:24 PM
Terrible news

On a side note I'm kind of getting tired of "PTSD" being used to explain away everything bad a serviceman does. For the record I served in Iraq in combat. In my opinion this is nothing more than a symptom of a culture and society that has lost its way morally. These guys are part of a generation raised by single mom's, video games, and a morally corrupted entertainment industry. Now we have half of them claiming PTSD so they can collect a disability check for life and use it to explain away every dumb thing they do in life. I never heard of a soldier from WWII doing things like this, never heard of Civil War soldiers going on rampages (way more stressful and traumatic wars than Iraq or Afghanistan) And yes guys got plenty of concussions (probably more so) from explosions in those conflicts as well so that comment about "IED's and brain damage" is nonsense. Let's face it, something has changed in society and it's not the brutal nature of war. PTSD is just a scapegoat being used to explain away the failure to accept personal responsibility.
You never heard about it, probably not. WWII and the Civil War spawned just as many damaged men (more because of the gross numbers of them) that every war does. Vietnam was supposed to be the worst because of the political climate. The Middle East wars may be the worst because of the multiple tours of duty and the whole brain injury thing. But in the end, war breaks a certain percentage of the men that fight them and the only real key/cure seems to be getting as many years between the man and the conflict as possible without anything bad happening. The vast majority manage to pull this off to one degree or another. Some are perfectly normal, some kinda zapped out but harming no one...a few do bad things.

PGT
February 4, 2013, 03:32 PM
I was fortunate enough to meet Chris Kyle (very) briefly at the SHOT Show this year. I couldn't imagine meeting a nicer, more upstanding guy. Got him to sign an autograph for my brother who is currently in the Navy. He signed it, "thank you for your service." That a guy who has given so much for his country still feels the need to thank others for their service tells me all I need to know. America lost a great guy.
Wow. Thanks for sharing....sounds like he was a standup guy yet humble too (not a surprise, I know).

gym
February 4, 2013, 04:08 PM
The difference now a days is that we take people who never did anything remotelly dangerous, the opposite of our forefarthers, and stick them in a war zone with a gun, expecting that they will adapt. In days of old, people were brought up with a different mental and physical toughness.
You can't take a kid who watches movies and goes to clubs, and stick him in a war zone in 6 months, and expect there to be no mental problems.
years ago people had a harder road working in steel mills and on farms or factories before that. They were more apt to integrate into a military lifestyle than today. The same goes for every new illness on TV each week, we are a product of our own "soft" way of life.
That is why we didn't have all these "syndrones" back then.

Vurtle
February 4, 2013, 04:41 PM
Well said Gym

JohnBT
February 4, 2013, 04:44 PM
The descriptions of PTSD in war go way, way back in the literature, although not by that name. For instance, in 1915 the term shell shock was coined. Other names from that period were included traumatic hysteria, soldier's heart and war exhaustion, but shell shock stuck.

Googled up at random, www.las.illinois.edu/news/2009/ptsd

It's happened in every war it appears. In WWII the U.S. rotated the more severely impaired out of the line for rest.

John

sean326
February 5, 2013, 04:40 PM
When you veterans start talking stuff like "die by the sword", I step back, i'm not in that club. If i didn't do it i don't wear the T-shirt or talk the talk.

Kyle did not live by the sword, he was not a thug or mercenary. He was a guy who could have lived for 80 years, just 4 out of those 80 potential he spent in battle. We needed him and he raised his hand and did what he was told. he paid his dues and did his part and deserved to live a long, prosperous life with his family. I spent 15 years in the fire service, i don't think i deserve to die in a fire because i chose low pay, hard work and an uncomfortable environment for a small part of my life.

My son is in the reserves now. If someone orders him to sniper school or something similar he'll say yes sir and do his best, he's a really, really good boy. If he happens to shoot people and then comes home he deserves our respect, gratitude and any help we can give him. He deserves to live a long and happy life knowing that he did his part when we needed him..... he does not deserve to "die by the sword"

Just my thoughts, I'll understand if you vets tell me to shut up, that i just don't get it.

Sam Cade
February 5, 2013, 05:06 PM
The descriptions of PTSD in war go way, way back in the literature, although not by that name.

Way, way WAAAAY back.

Herodotus mentions what we would consider PTSD numerous times.






I can vaguely recall a description of a returning classical era Greek soldier who kept going into the fields and killing livestock with his sword when he would have his "overload" moments but I can't precisely remember the attribution.... anybody?

Cosmoline
February 5, 2013, 05:08 PM
The killer is currently strapped down to a chair, frothing at the mouth and gibbering. They've had to zap him to get him to calm down a little. He allegedly said he "sold his soul for a pickup".

So I think we're way beyond PTSD here folks. Lots of questions need to be asked as to why he was ever allowed to leave the mental hospital, how he got a firearm and who could have warned the police that a madman was on the loose. In the end his own sister had to call it in out of fear for her own life.

SoCalNoMore
February 5, 2013, 05:16 PM
If anyone is interested, here is a link to buy a shirt in memory of Chris and proceeds go to help his family.

http://tacticaltshirts.com/shop/shirt-chris-kyle-memorial-t-shirt/

HoosierQ
February 5, 2013, 05:26 PM
Cold is definitely right, perhaps even inappropriate...but will defend your right to express your view. As I often say on this forum, the BOR does not come with a multiple choice option...

Having said that: he was retired, not active duty. He was shooting targets, not enemy combatants. He likely saved more lives than he took during active duty.

If you're saying that Karma came calling or something of that nature, not sure any of us have the universal knowledge to accurately decipher such things. In my experience we do that to rationalize circumstances we can not possibly understand.

IMHO we should show some respect for a fallen hero, let his loved ones grieve and have a scientific discussion later.
The way I read this post was that having been a warrior in life, and then maintaining a high profile as such after retirement, he may well have given occassion for this psycho to "prove his mettle" against someone his twisted mind may have perceived as a worthy, if not superior adversary. I read this post rather differently than some. There are many other similar warriors, who will have experienced similar things, fought similar wars, done their duty as called upon to do it, who are now, having retired, selling tires, plowing fields, rolling steel, selling stocks and bonds, or taking out tonsils...but who are not making the specific nature of their service known to all.

That's how I read this post.

Ryanxia
February 5, 2013, 05:30 PM
A real shame.

Double Naught Spy
February 5, 2013, 11:29 PM
Motive?

Apparently Routh had become exceptionally paranoid.

When Routh arrived around 5:45 p.m., his brother-in-law Gaines Blevins said he was “acting and talking strangely.” Routh told his brother-in-law and sister, Laura, that he and two other people “were out shooting target practice and he couldn’t trust them so he killed them before they could kill him.” Routh told them “he traded his soul for a new truck.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20130205-911-recording-sister-of-man-accused-of-killing-sniper-chris-kyle-chad-littlefield-feared-for-her-life.ece

JohnBT
February 6, 2013, 11:45 AM
I don't recall Herodotus' tale of a soldier killing livestock, but around 450 B.C. Sophoceles wrote a play about Ajax and the Trojan War.

Ajax, having been driven mad, kills a large number of cattle thinking they are his fellow soldiers. When he eventually comes to his senses he cannot deal with the humiliation and commits suicide.

hueyville
February 7, 2013, 01:50 AM
A follow up to my previous post in this thread about always wearing body armor at a public range. Only reason I have been using the local indoor range is a local doctor wanted me to teach him and his wife firearms safty, shooting and tactics. Although he realizes I am good at my job he has thought me always donning a 3a vest before going in a concrete room full of people I don't know who are all shooting guns as paranoid. Since we started training he has purchased 2 Smith scandium frame 7 shot 22 mag wheel guns for super light jogging weapons, 2 Sig Sauer .380's, a Khar compact 9mm and a 12 gauge. With the High Standard.22lr he had it is good start on his collection. Tonight went to his house for lessons in tactics and some exercises with dummy rounds. Mag swaps, clearing jams, etc. He has seen details on this incident on the news several times and says he has been nervous a time or two at the range. Once when a guy handed a class 3 Uzi to his girl friend who had never shot a gun and got a bit wild. Before leaving I sized them up and tomorrow ordering them each a lightweight level II vest and a level IIIa with plates. He is not going back to the range till he gets them. A dozen mixed new to experienced shooters all blazing away in a concrete room is an accident waiting to happen. In a range a vest is same idea as seatbelts even if you intend to avoid a wreck and condoms when you sleep with a stranger. In all these scenarios odds are low something will go bad. But if it does, it will be real bad. A vest rated to 9mm which is most common range caliber is cheap. Just a thought. Won't stop an intent looney with an AK but a mishandling of a pistol nearby could be taken from catastrophic to a scary experience.

TyGuy
February 7, 2013, 01:53 AM
Guess I should put on my level IV plates the next time I go GAT? Probably not a bad idea.

DammitBoy
February 7, 2013, 10:04 PM
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535999_333745060065617_344628569_n.jpg

Cesiumsponge
February 11, 2013, 08:18 PM
They held the memorial service for Chris Kyle yesterday at the Cowboy's stadium. It was pretty low key. Not much news being made of it. Here's one of the photos taken by an attendee.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/604069_553771857980283_597786272_n.jpg

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/11/4613810/huge-turnout-expected-for-chris.html
http://www.theintelligencer.com/article_6f04c184-ff7f-5c5b-b2be-76173a8eb700.html

mrvco
February 11, 2013, 08:29 PM
The descriptions of PTSD in war go way, way back in the literature, although not by that name. For instance, in 1915 the term shell shock was coined. Other names from that period were included traumatic hysteria, soldier's heart and war exhaustion, but shell shock stuck.

Googled up at random, www.las.illinois.edu/news/2009/ptsd

It's happened in every war it appears. In WWII the U.S. rotated the more severely impaired out of the line for rest.

John
I have no first hand experience with such things, but having friends and family who do, I found David Grossman's book On Killing (On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society) very informative.

Tinpig
February 11, 2013, 08:35 PM
Highly decorated Iraq war veteran Chris Kyle is tragically murdered and not one word. The silence is deafening, Mr. President.

But let's be honest...if Mr. President had spoken about Chris Kyle's murder many would have accused him of insincerity, and of using a veteran's death to highlight gun violence and further his own agenda.

Tinpig

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