I finally understand: Carbine for HD


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rgwalt
February 3, 2013, 11:58 PM
I finally understand why I've read/heard so much about carbines for home defense lately... I recently picked up one of my "drool" guns from a private seller, a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm set up to accept Beretta 92 magazines (I also own a 92 and thought it would be cool). My god, that gun is precise. I make ragged holes at about any distance out to 25 yards. Haven't been able to get to a longer range yet. I'm quite accurate with the iron sights. Once I finish zeroing in my red dot sight (Primary Arms 30mm multi-reticle on an American Defense Aimpoint low profile mount), I'm going to be even happier.

The long sight radius combined with the low recoil of this weapon is just fantastic. If I could talk my wife into a single gun corner safe for the bedroom, this would become my go-to home defense weapon. Plus, it is great against the Cylons! I've fired a few ARs and realize that they would make great home defense guns as well. Again, great sight radius, ability to mount flashlights and lasers galore, good ergonomics, low recoil...

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W L Johnson
February 4, 2013, 12:06 AM
Plus, it is great against the Cylons!

Remember a while back someone was making a barrel shroud that mimicked the one from the show. Think I saw them on gunbroker, been a while. Almost bought one at the time.

W L Johnson
February 4, 2013, 12:19 AM
Here they are
http://mfiap.com/i-7832697-mfi-battle-star-galactica-barrel-shroud-for-beretta-cx4-storm.html

rgwalt
February 4, 2013, 12:53 AM
Here they are
http://mfiap.com/i-7832697-mfi-battle-star-galactica-barrel-shroud-for-beretta-cx4-storm.html
You know, that is pretty cool... I may just order one...

rondog
February 4, 2013, 01:11 AM
I think pistol caliber carbines are great home defense choices, although I prefer an M1 carbine. I have two HiPoint carbines, a 9mm and a .40, and I'm confident enough in both of them to use them for the job. But, my Plainfield M1 got the position. Ultimak hanguard w/rail, mounted with a clone of an Aimpoint red-dot, 15 rd. magazine with two more in a pouch on the stock, it was a no brainer. Short, light, manuverable and powerful....what's not to like?

Personally, my AR15 is just too big and heavy to even consider when compared to the M1. But your 9mm carbine should be dandy. I know a guy who hunts deer with one of those, with the local game wardens blessings as long as he uses +P ammo.

Girodin
February 4, 2013, 01:58 AM
Personally, my AR15 is just too big and heavy to even consider when compared to the M1.

Get a lighter AR. Seriously. An M1 carbine weighs around 5.5lbs IIRC. I have an AR that weighs that. It really isn't that hard to build a 6 lbs or less AR. Weight can be a wash and the AR holds MANY advantages. Not to say an M1 carbine is not a viable defensive weapon. The storm is about 5.75 I believe. Any AR that is sub 7lbs shouldn't be too unwieldy if one knows what he or she is doing.

jehu
February 4, 2013, 07:36 AM
Shotgun = best home defense!!:what:

Hapworth
February 4, 2013, 08:08 AM
Shotgun = best home defense!!:what:
Totally debatable, endlessly debated, and off topic. OP's talking about a new appreciation of carbines for HD. ;)

Girodin
February 4, 2013, 11:07 AM
Shotgun = best home defense!!

Not at all per se true. One of the more interesting parts of the Magpul Dynamics shotgun DVDs was where both Travis and Chris stated they not only did not use a shotgun for HD but that they did not recommend them to most people.

A shot gun really only has two advantages vis-a-vis a carbine in a HD role. First, is terminal ballistics. A shotgun with the right ammunition is truly formidable. The second advantage (and it doesn't exist in all cases) is cost. One can get a pump shotgun that is a very viable choice for less than $200 (pardner pump, Maverick 88, Hawk 982, and a number of used guns). One can also spend well over $1k.

Shotguns generally speaking have a more difficult manual of arms if one wants to be truly proficient. Pump shotguns while arguably mechanically more reliable than some carbines are MUCH more prone to user induced failures under stress. Shotguns have limited capacity. Shotguns have recoil, particularly with slugs and buck that may make them difficult for some shooters to use well. Split times between follow ups and transitions are much slower, again particularly with ammo suited for HD. A cartridge like Hornady TAP presents less of a risk of over penetration or an errant round penetrating barriers. If one needs to go and retrieve a child a shotgun, particularly a pump gun may not be anywhere near the best weapon. Practically suppressing most shotguns is not nearly as easy as doing so with a carbine or handgun. A suppressor has huge benefits in a HD situation. A carbine can more readily defeat an armored attacker (admittedly rare, but not unheard of).

I like to train with both carbines and shotguns. I think either a good carbine or a good shotgun is up to the task if the user is. When someone starts spouting about a shotgun being per se the clear choice for HD, I think they don't really know what they are talking about.

Carbines actually have a lot of advantages. Some of which are what the OP has come to appreciate.

Deer_Freak
February 4, 2013, 12:49 PM
I have a 9mm carbine for my wife. I would use it for self defense if it was the first gun I could get my hands on. People knock the capacity of the shotgun all the time. Yet when I shoot a course of fire with a shotgun I always shoot it faster than I do with a 10 shot pistol (IDPA limits pistols to 10 shots). The good old tactical reload must work pretty good with a shotgun.

taliv
February 4, 2013, 02:22 PM
I finally understand why

funny how that phrase often follows experience, actually trying something.

beatledog7
February 4, 2013, 02:29 PM
Another good HD carbine is a lever action in .357Mag.

rondog
February 4, 2013, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Personally, my AR15 is just too big and heavy to even consider when compared to the M1.

Get a lighter AR. Seriously. An M1 carbine weighs around 5.5lbs IIRC. I have an AR that weighs that. It really isn't that hard to build a 6 lbs or less AR. Weight can be a wash and the AR holds MANY advantages. Not to say an M1 carbine is not a viable defensive weapon. The storm is about 5.75 I believe. Any AR that is sub 7lbs shouldn't be too unwieldy if one knows what he or she is doing.


Mine IS a carbine. I compare handling the AR vs. handling the M1, and the M1 is hands down far easier for ME to handle, move with, manuever with, and shoot.

This (now mounted with a Nikon scope).....

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20AR15/DSCN3457.jpg

is just not as easy for me to handle and operate as this.....

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20M1%20carbines/DSC_0494.jpg

Sorry, I love my AR, but for home use I'll grab the M1 first.

PGT
February 4, 2013, 03:45 PM
I had an FN FiveSeven/PS90 combo for the same reasons. With all the recent drama, I parted with them for a nice sum and ended up buying a 92FS (and some others).

jmr40
February 4, 2013, 07:11 PM
I finally understand why I've read/heard so much about carbines for home defense lately.

You've just dscovered why shotguns are rapidly being replaced in LE and the military. While a shotgun is a viable choice it's abilities have always been overstated and it's negatives glossed over.

JFrame
February 4, 2013, 07:18 PM
Another good HD carbine is a lever action in .357Mag.

10-4 on that...I have a 12 gauge pump ready to go, but would not hesitate to call my Winchester Trapper into service. :cool:

To address the OP's point -- I agree. I don't have the greatest eyes on earth, and the superior sight radius and "pointability" of the Trapper allows me to do things at 25 yards that would be the stuff of dreams (or more practice than I can muster) with a revolver...


.

DMK
February 4, 2013, 08:35 PM
I've always loved carbines. Here are my two favorites. Both light and handy. The AR is not noticeably heavier than the M1, if at all.

One day I'm going to add a .357 lever action to the family. I've always wanted one of those.

http://myplace.frontier.com/~dmk0210/myarms/carbines.jpg

PGT
February 4, 2013, 08:36 PM
sexy para! I want one...so sweet

DMK
February 5, 2013, 07:51 AM
Thanks PGT!

It's a CMP Inland that I put in a repro stock.

Sav .250
February 5, 2013, 08:04 AM
You can use what ever you like for HD. Nothing like plenty of fire power in case of a home invasion by some un-savory character. Protection of home and property is foremost.

In the after-math, I`m thinking your home/trailer/apartment, etc looking like a scene from the movie, Scare Face. Hope you have good insurance.

Batty67
February 5, 2013, 08:56 AM
I have both an M1 carbine (AO modern version) and a Marlin Camp 45. Not sure which I like better.

chris in va
February 5, 2013, 04:24 PM
Keep one thing in mind if you plan to use a carbine or shotgun for HD.

Talking with 911 while holding a long gun is very awkward. The lady protecting her kids in the recent HD shooting is a prime example.

W L Johnson
February 5, 2013, 08:43 PM
Talking with 911 while holding a long gun is very awkward. The lady protecting her kids in the recent HD shooting is a prime example.

One of the reasons why I like bullpups.

harvester
February 5, 2013, 09:23 PM
Carbine with sling, side arm for use with phone. Adds redundancy too.

JFrame
February 5, 2013, 09:29 PM
Carbine with sling, side arm for use with phone. Adds redundancy too.

Yup -- I don't consider a long gun and handgun necessarily mutually exclusive. :cool:


.

barnbwt
February 5, 2013, 10:21 PM
Rail-mounted phone holster. What? :D

TCB

TimboKhan
February 5, 2013, 11:58 PM
Taliv has a point. A long time ago, I would have argued the point about how much better a pistol was at home defense. Then I saw an article by Clint Smith in which he demonstrated that a carbine isn't any longer than a pistol is when held at arms length. I tried it, and sure enough, my assumption was wrong. To be fair, I had never done much work with a carbine, though I did do MOUT training with an A3 so I knew a few tricks. In any event, the AR that sits about 10 feet from me right now is loaded and ready to go if I need it, and that is a comfort.

Nothing wrong with having wrong assumptions if your willing to admit when you're wrong and are open minded enough to reconsider your views and try new ideas if you don't have much experience.

wnycollector
February 6, 2013, 06:20 AM
Another good HD carbine is a lever action in .357Mag.

+1 on that. I love my 20" Rossi .357.

Valor35
February 6, 2013, 01:37 PM
+1 on that. I love my 20" Rossi .357.

Double that, exactly!

steveo452
February 6, 2013, 04:31 PM
Thats my go to HD rifle aswell a Rossi M92 in .357msg. very sweet carbine.

76shuvlinoff
February 6, 2013, 07:55 PM
I make em sit together and make nice.

Colt 6920 next to...
Rem 870 next to...
Marlin 1894c in .357,

Every one topped off.



.

Kybill
February 6, 2013, 10:13 PM
I bought the cx4 storm in 9mm not long ago, what a fun and easy gun to shoot. As you stated the iron sites ate very good but with the red dot target acquisition is even faster.

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