Black powder load data for .44 mag


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9w1911
February 4, 2013, 04:18 PM
I own the lyman book and its lacking on some info,
anyone here stuff 3f in a .44 mag case?

new to BP but seems fun

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TurtlePhish
February 4, 2013, 04:43 PM
With BP it's usually fill it to the point that there's no air space left in the case. Use a drop tube to fill the cases.

It's not possible to stuff enough BP in a case to blow an action built for smokeless. Space between the powder and bullet can be dangerous, though.

quaid
February 4, 2013, 05:30 PM
It's not originally a BP cartridge. (Not that it can't be done though!)

blarby
February 4, 2013, 06:16 PM
I'd also like this info, if anyone has done it.

9w1911
February 4, 2013, 06:18 PM
i am hearing 30grns of 3f

Hammerdown77
February 4, 2013, 06:47 PM
You can load black powder in just about anything. I even saw a YouTube video of a guy shooting black powder loads in his 1911.

Figure out where the base of the bullet will be when seated to the crimp groove. Add about an 1/8" to that. Fill up the case with black powder to that line. Now weigh it. Then, take whatever dispenser you are going to use and adjust it until it throws that weight. Load away!

Cosmoline
February 4, 2013, 06:52 PM
.44 Mag is just an elongated and strengthed .44 Russian, so in a real sense it is a BP case. There's no reason it can't be loaded with black. Other than getting soot on your minty Smith & Wesson ;-)

I like using compression dies with these kids of rounds, it makes it a lot easier to push down the powder. Just load like a .45 Colt BP, use cast bullets and if possible cast bullets with BP friendly lube.

targetshooter22
February 4, 2013, 07:16 PM
I load this with great success and frequency. The 200 grain LRNFP has enough space for about 33 grains of fffg. Accuracy with well lubed bullets is excellent. We call it the 44 extra long Russian.

9w1911
February 4, 2013, 08:26 PM
Any issues.with a plated Berry bullet in 240gr ..I do have lswc in 240gr also.

targetshooter22
February 4, 2013, 08:34 PM
Carrying enough lube to keep the fouling soft is the key to accuracy. I cast my own Big Lube design bullets (MAV Dutchman design for the 44), the use a lube sizer to put in a large amount of lube made from Crisco and soy wax. This method keeps things working well, and the load is quite accurate; basically the second shot is as accurate as the 100th. It is my understanding these bullets are commercially available from a couple of sources, as are the molds.

9w1911
February 4, 2013, 08:55 PM
so what you are saying is i cannot use a plated bullet?

Cosmoline
February 4, 2013, 08:57 PM
For the first few shots it probably won't matter much. But it ain't a match made in heaven. You could possibly help matters a little with a card/lube wad/bullet stack. But you'd have to use a rammer to get the powder down. And I don't know how well it would actually work.

I also seem to remember something about very low FPS plated rounds shredding jackets. Not sure about that one though.

bluetopper
February 4, 2013, 09:37 PM
There are very good reasons modern cartridges don't use black powder any more.

savanahsdad
February 4, 2013, 10:11 PM
go to Hodgdon's web site , look up there Cowboy loads, there are loads for Triple Seven and Pyrodex , and how to load them
hope this helps ,

9w1911
February 4, 2013, 10:43 PM
thank you^^

blarby
February 4, 2013, 10:45 PM
There are very good reasons modern cartridges don't use black powder any more.

But I can't make nitrocellulose.

We all have our reasons.

Reefinmike
February 4, 2013, 11:11 PM
blackpowder shotshells with very fine glitter mixed in with birdshot would be a hoot on a busy windy day at the trap range :neener:

targetshooter22
February 5, 2013, 12:22 AM
Black powder cartridge at non-magnum velocities isn't inferior, it's just different. I think the plated bullets and their jacketed kin will not give you the results you are looking for in terms of target shooting, but they will go bang, and at least the first few will be reasonably accurate. If you want to take up cowboy action or some BPCR shooting sport, you will want to go with a lead bullet that carries a lot of lube.

Incidentally, clean up isn't more work (I think it's less), it's just different. I use Ballistol mixed with water (1 part Ballistol, 7 parts water), some paper towel, and a bore snake. Using this method, it takes me about an hour or a little less to clean two pistols, a levergun, and a shotgun. In a pinch, hot soapy water and an air compressor work too. If you use the "usual" mart-mart solvents, it will take much longer. :)

9w1911
February 5, 2013, 05:12 AM
For now I dont want to be a cowboy action shooter, but,,I do want to shoot the guns and shoot similar loads, also BP seems like a fun time. I look at it like this, I have a 44 lever, I can shoot bp, I have some LSW, and some LRNFP on the way so why not?

9w1911
February 5, 2013, 05:14 AM
I dont have a coach gun yet but bp in that would be awesome

blarby
February 5, 2013, 09:14 AM
So, it would seem the important part here is no air gap.

Compressed load.

Making sure its tight, just like in a muzzle loader, yes ?

FROGO207
February 5, 2013, 12:12 PM
You could try Trail Boss and avoid the soap and water cleanup. It is a smokless propellant that mimics BP with the smoke and all but does not muck up the barrel and you load it like regular smokeless also you can use jacketed/plated bullets as well. BUT DO NOT COMPRESS IT. Hodgdon has loads and a tutorial of how to find a load for your bullet/cartridge if you can't find any data. I would go there first due to the ease of using it. Then if you want a little more smoke and frequent cleaning between shots like in the old days get your black powder and go fer it. JMHO

9w1911
February 5, 2013, 02:15 PM
yea I shoot a ton of trail boss, it is one of my favorite powders, even a max load is light.
Im not looking for sub 800fps rounds, I have so much different types of smokeless I can achieve just about any velocity with any bullet I own(which I love IMR4227)
No the want to load BP is purely that, just to load it and learn about it.

Cosmoline
February 5, 2013, 02:22 PM
I love TB but it's a very different experience and tends to have very sedate velocities. BP can actually get things going pretty fast. It's also danged hot, so be prepared for that. I wear a leather gauntlet on the off hand.

Hammerdown77
February 5, 2013, 03:21 PM
If you use your cast bullets, you need to replace the lube with something black powder friendly. The stuff that comes in commercial cast bullets will not work well, and make it very hard to clean afterward. At least with real black powder. Some of the substitutes (like Triple Seven) are compatible with smokeless lubes.

I would not use the plated bullets unless you use a lube cookie.

The key to continued accuracy and easy cleanup when shooting real blackpowder is LUBE. The more the better.

9w1911
February 5, 2013, 08:08 PM
I am using triple 7 not real bp

Cosmoline
February 5, 2013, 08:44 PM
Forget all that stuff about compressing it then. You're going to fare much better with the real thing I think.

I've shot smokeless-lubed cast bullets quite a bit. It may add a bit to fowling but it's not the end of the world. You can add a lubed pat under it if you want, too.

9w1911
February 5, 2013, 09:12 PM
great thanks for all the insight!!!

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