How fo you feel about gun shops selling on gunbroker instead of in their store.


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Queen_of_Thunder
February 4, 2013, 11:29 PM
I can on one hand understand why they may do it but leaving your customers without supply seems to be a bad business decision.

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carnaby
February 4, 2013, 11:35 PM
It's a two way street. Customers come in to fondle the guns and then buy on Gun Broker or from Bud's and then have their buddy with the FFL do the transfer for $10. Dealers need to make a living, but you raise a valid point. I try to buy (or did before I got an FFL) from local gun stores to support them.

On the other hand, during a crazy feeding frenzy like we have now, how do you expect gun stores to turn away from the sorts of prices they can get at auction?

Teachu2
February 4, 2013, 11:36 PM
They deserve the same loyalty in return.

TennJed
February 4, 2013, 11:46 PM
Not enough info to make a decision. If he sells locally at a fair price then cannot restock his inventory what good does that do the owner, employees, and customers? If he closes down in 2 months where does that leave the customer?

mnrivrat
February 5, 2013, 12:57 AM
It's called staying in business . Most stores that sell on Gunbroker offer the gun in house as well, until there is a bid on the item .

Some guns sell better in different parts of the country and the Internet has worked its way into the business profile of not just gun shops. You sell where you can, and sell to get the best money you can.

Twiki357
February 5, 2013, 01:36 AM
I don't see anything wrong with it. A retailer is going to go where he can get the most exposure and the best price for his merchandise. A gun sitting on a store shelf may be looked at a few times and listed for a given price waiting for that one person. The online auction exposes that gun to thousands of potential buyers and usually results in a higher sales price from bidders who are actually looking for it and want it.

Newcatwalt
February 5, 2013, 02:03 AM
I think any gun dealers that are not on line are short changing themselves.

willypete
February 5, 2013, 04:09 AM
I feel like it's none of my business.

Plan2Live
February 5, 2013, 06:04 AM
I feel like it's none of my business. This.

I have a bigger problem with people uisng the local store to ogle and fondle then buy on line saving just enough to be offset by the shipping and handling. If we continue this behavior we won't have to worry about what the local gun store does because there won't be any local gun stores.

evan price
February 5, 2013, 06:58 AM
It's their gun, they can sell it however they want.
I like having stuff available to me on gunbroker from all over.

Mobuck
February 5, 2013, 07:34 AM
Actually, very good business sense. Expanding your customer base far beyond the walkin level is bound to increase sales. Now , if you're the guy waiting for the oddball whatever to be discounted so you can score a bargain, it's not so good.

heeler
February 5, 2013, 07:53 AM
Before this potus induced panic came along a lot of dealers might have gone under without resources such as GB to sell their wares.
And a lot of them were selling their available firearms at just a hair above costs.
Here's an example.
In August of 2011 I bought a NIB Ruger LCP from a small dealer in nowhere Minnesota for $239.00.
After looking at this small town on my Atlas I had to wonder just how many customers a guy like this could reliably generate.
Thus he uses GB to help sell his guns.

BCCL
February 5, 2013, 08:26 AM
but leaving your customers without supply

The people that buy from them on GB are their customers to............

Queen_of_Thunder
February 5, 2013, 08:50 AM
What caught my attention regarding this practice was the website for this dealer. Plainly stated on the site was all ammo will now be sold on gunbroker or another gun auction site and not in their store.

MErl
February 5, 2013, 08:54 AM
I see this as perfectly valid and true:
Due to current market conditions we cannot accurately price some of our inventory. Until the situation stabilizes we will be listing that inventory on gunbroker and letting our customers set the fair price. Thank you for your understanding.

(No I have not actually seen that somewhere)

22-rimfire
February 5, 2013, 08:57 AM
The market for firearms has become a nationwide market, especially for collector grade and limited interest firearms. A gunshop may have a limited market due to location and advertising or offering to sell via the internet contacts is smart business.

Selling online is a double edged practice. But I think a net positve for the customer and business. Books are a good example of internet marketing. Rare books placed on the shelf of your typical antique dealer have poor exposure to potential buyers. And the national market access actually has driven prices down on such items. As I said, it is a double edged issue with pros and cons.

I also think that selling ammunition online exclusively is a poor business decision if they have a brick and mortar shop open to the public.

beatledog7
February 5, 2013, 08:57 AM
I do not "feel" about free enterprise: I do "think" about it. Therein lies the problem underlying so many issues today. We feel rather than think.

I would ask the OP the same question I've posed before: if it were your business and you wanted to save it or maximize its profitability by whatever legal and ethical means, would you not do so? If you can point to something unethical in the practice, and provide a reasoned rationale regarding why it's unethical, I'll listen.

Bubbles
February 5, 2013, 08:59 AM
What caught my attention regarding this practice was the website for this dealer. Plainly stated on the site was all ammo will now be sold on gunbroker or another gun auction site and not in their store.
Offer $2 per round for M855 and I bet they'd sell it to you.

We do a mix of sales with customers versus auction sites. We have some regulars and we know what they like to collect, so when a consignment comes in that we think will interest them we call them first. If we don't get a quick sale that way then the gun goes up on GB to whoever wants it.

mgmorden
February 5, 2013, 09:07 AM
The people on Gunbroker are just as much their customers as the people walking in their door.

Heck I've always been a proponent of gun buyers buying at their best price rather than "Supporting the LGS.". Whatever is in your best interests you should do. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't afford the LGS the same options when it came to selling their wares as I have when I'm buying.

pockets
February 5, 2013, 09:09 AM
No big deal......It is the year 2013.
Business models change constantly with technology and the times.
.

HOOfan_1
February 5, 2013, 09:11 AM
They deserve the same loyalty in return.

Right, if you don't like their practices, find another gun shop

W L Johnson
February 5, 2013, 09:43 AM
Their shop
Their guns
Their business

JohnBT
February 5, 2013, 09:51 AM
"How fo you feel about gun shops selling on gunbroker instead of in their store."

I have an internet connection. Posting ads on line saves me a trip to the store to see what they have for sale. The guns are for sale in their stores, too.

bannockburn
February 5, 2013, 09:57 AM
If it helps them stay in business so they can remain open as your local gun shop then I think it makes sense for them to sell online. It's a profit driven enterprise so they do what they have to do to keep it that way.

Queen_of_Thunder
February 5, 2013, 10:05 AM
The issue here has nothing to do with guns,only ammo.
So do you exclude those customers who come into the store that if you want to buy ammo you have to bid for it on gunbroker or another gunauction site. Seems like a business model for short term gain vs staying in business.

22-rimfire
February 5, 2013, 10:09 AM
Since the price would float on Gunbroker based on what the market will bear, the gunshop probably knows about what things are selling for and should offer the ammunition for sale at about that price if it is in keeping with their standard pricing practice.

Bottom line.... their stuff, their pricing.

I read all the time about customers buying on line to save $20 relative to the local gunshop pricing. I find that very irritating.

Bovice
February 5, 2013, 10:13 AM
A lot of stores sell guns on gunbroker, a lot of times it is stuff they have from trade-ins. I don't see how that hurts anyone. They're all free to do it.

gossamer
February 5, 2013, 10:24 AM
The issue here has nothing to do with guns,only ammo.
So do you exclude those customers who come into the store that if you want to buy ammo you have to bid for it on gunbroker or another gunauction site. Seems like a business model for short term gain vs staying in business.

Regarding Ammo: Is there anything that prohibits them from taking the "auction" - which is often a "buy it now" - if it sells in the store?

Nonetheless, with the notable exceptions in the world of firearms ammo is the commodity item. I've never read an economic or commercial case made for restricting a commodity to only one specific customer base.

In my business I've found that failing to sell something and make a profit is surest way to avoid staying in business.

My take on it is that the shortage we are seeing is more about end consumers and manufacturers than the retailers. It's their job to move the merch. The shortage isn't because of retailers selling online. It's because of "Us" (not THR "us" but the royal "Us.") and the mfgrs. IN other words, supply and demand.

Queen_of_Thunder
February 5, 2013, 10:25 AM
I do not "feel" about free enterprise: I do "think" about it. Therein lies the problem underlying so many issues today. We feel rather than think.

I would ask the OP the same question I've posed before: if it were your business and you wanted to save it or maximize its profitability by whatever legal and ethical means, would you not do so? If you can point to something unethical in the practice, and provide a reasoned rationale regarding why it's unethical, I'll listen.
Unethical probably not. Bad business decision I would say yes as this store has decided to not sell ammo to its customers in the store rather it you want ammo from them even if you are their local customer you have to bid for it on gunbroker. While there is short term gain in this model a business owner is likely to drive his regular customers elsewhere and in the end destroy his business.

Thankfully the LGS I shop at haven't adopted this model.

bodam
February 5, 2013, 10:38 AM
I don't have a problem with them expanding their sales, but when you ask if they have a gun, and they tell you it is going directly on GB, then it gets irritating.

So if I walk in the door, you won't sell it to me? Whatever

gossamer
February 5, 2013, 10:38 AM
Thankfully the LGS I shop at haven't adopted this model.

So who is having this problem then?

nathan
February 5, 2013, 10:42 AM
Not a surprise, they want to get the best price they can get for their guns . They are getting smarter nowadays.

SSN Vet
February 5, 2013, 10:51 AM
A vast majority of the LGS threads here bash local store owners for being understocked, overpriced and short on social graces.... :rolleyes:

Now that Bud's can't ship next day, people are bemoaning that fact that the local store has opted to move it's inventory on line too. :eek:

Who'd of thunk it? :confused:

ApacheCoTodd
February 5, 2013, 11:06 AM
It's their business and their inventory.

I have no claim to another man's possessions, his trade or the fruits of his labor.

If I am the part of a more effectively supportive customer base both in volume and income, a smart businessman will consider me over the potential internet sale and its inherent complications. If I and those in the vicinity of the shop do not provide seemingly sufficient commercial support it's a smart decision to seek those customers elsewhere.

After all, the fella's running a business and no doubt supporting a family as well.

Browning
February 5, 2013, 11:12 AM
Obviously their stuff, they can do what they want with it.

I'd find another LGS and avoid that one though.

Mike Sr.
February 5, 2013, 11:21 AM
a) I think the net is a great place for a customer to find guns that may not be found in a local gun store or when a gun shop will not carry, nor order a specific model. And the net is a great place for a shop owner to sell what is not selling in his store.

b) As for purchasing new: I have not found a new gun on the net that I can not buy at a 'net' price at my local gun shop. One of my favorite local gun shop is Guns Unlimited here in Omaha. I bought my very first gun from there in 1969 and have been buying there again over the years.

The net provides us all with an opportunity to sell a used firearm at market value vs nickles and dimes vs a trade value! In turn more money to buy locally or order. If one has trouble w/ a new purchase the local gun shop is more than helpful vs a net purchase where the philosophy is: let the buyer beware....

There is always a risk, hopefully nothing significant occurs!

JohnBT
February 5, 2013, 11:23 AM
"The issue here has nothing to do with guns,only ammo."

Why didn't you say so in the first place? You said "gun shops" in the title and repeated it in your original post. Not a word about ammo.

Guns or ammo, it doesn't make any difference to me how they advertise it.

John

theautobahn
February 5, 2013, 11:38 AM
Even though, as others have said, it's none of my business, it admittedly used to bug me a little bit. Then I realized that selling the occasional high-end item online allowed him to keep the pricing on the rest of his stuff super-low, so I'm 100% behind it. Well, 98% anyway.

rdhood
February 5, 2013, 12:11 PM
I purposefully DON'T look at and fondle guns in the LGS that I use for FFL transfers. I don't believe it is fair for me to take up their time only to purchase from someone else. I will try to see what their price is on a gun before I purchase over the internet. Frankly, they seldom have anything that I couldn't purchase cheaper elsewhere.

mdauben
February 5, 2013, 12:36 PM
I can on one hand understand why they may do it but leaving your customers without supply seems to be a bad business decision.
Most of the brick-n-mortar gun stores I see on Gun Broker usually include statements in their listings that the auction may be closed if they sell the gun in the shop. This seems a fine way to do buisness to me. IMO any buisness that ignores the internet these days is cutting their own throats.

I purposefully DON'T look at and fondle guns in the LGS that I use for FFL transfers.
My FLGS generally has a very good selection (at least before the "panic") and competative pricing. The only time I went to online retailers or auctions is if I was looking for a gun they didn't have and could not get me in any reasonable time. I have nothing but contempt for people who use local buisnesses to window shop and then do all their buying online. :mad:

Cosmoline
February 5, 2013, 12:53 PM
It's called staying in business

This. The internet sales have allowed several local shops to keep going even during down times in the local market.

Romeo 33 Delta
February 5, 2013, 01:28 PM
I LOVE IT! Over the years I've managed to pick up some really unusual rifles from gunshops selling on Gunbroker. Case in point, most recently I was able to locate and purchase a beautiful Winchester 43 in .25WCF ... with a Weaver J-4! I already had 43s in .22 Hornet, .218 Bee and .32 WCF, but NEVER expected to find one in .25 WCF. Or, how about a Newton First Model with a J-4 in a Stith mount? Trust me, you WON'T ever see rifles like that in my neck of the woods.

silicosys4
February 5, 2013, 02:24 PM
I can't complain, unless the gun is marked "NFS due to auction" in the case. I buy more guns online than I do locally because I get better deals through auctions than I do at my LGS. Every once in a while a consignment gun comes through my LGS that the owner has consigned for a low price, I picked up my last Colt like that. And the more LGS's putting their items up on online auction, means I have more selection online.
So if my LGS can find a better buyer online than I am willing to be, more power to them. I'll still run my transfers through them and buy guns from them when they are priced right.

Walkalong
February 5, 2013, 02:29 PM
Their shop, their rules, but yes, if I am a local customer and they would not sell to me, I would be irked with them. However, it is their business to run as they may, and their chance to take as far as alienating local customers.

Redlg155
February 5, 2013, 03:24 PM
Ok..new twist,

Store owner/Business takes orders (no cash exchange-just an order with cc on file ) and places them on backorder status. Backorders come in and instead of filling them at promised prices, sells them on GB or other site.

Ethical or just maximizing profit? I say this becuase it was rumored on other forums that this has been happening. But then these are rumors.

MagnumDweeb
February 5, 2013, 03:45 PM
I have no loyalty to any LGS. I have only loyalty to me, myself, I, some family, and my fiancee. Everyone else is expendable. If the LGS doesn't have the price I want I'll look elsewhere simple as that. I'd do the same thing if I was them. I mean heck, how many of us buy our ammo online or at Walmart to save not having to pay LGS ammo prices, even before this panic and conspiracy theory fountain.

If I had some sense of loyalty to a LGS and I found out they were doing this then I might give a hoot. But otherwise, let them do what they want so long as they let me do what I want. I've only ever bought a gun from a legit LGS three times in my life. Everything else has been armslist, gunbroker, and private sales. And I own over two dozen firearms.

SSN Vet
February 5, 2013, 04:01 PM
It's their business and their inventory.

I have no claim to another man's possessions, his trade or the fruits of his labor.

If I am the part of a more effectively supportive customer base both in volume and income, a smart businessman will consider me over the potential internet sale and its inherent complications. If I and those in the vicinity of the shop do not provide seemingly sufficient commercial support it's a smart decision to seek those customers elsewhere.

This Sir, is the most refreshing and logical post, reflective of the values of a truly free people and economy (absent any form of gub'ment or crowd based coercion) that I have read in a loooooooong time.

I commend you for it.

Bubbles
February 5, 2013, 04:45 PM
Store owner/Business takes orders (no cash exchange-just an order with cc on file ) and places them on backorder status. Backorders come in and instead of filling them at promised prices, sells them on GB or other site.

Ethical or just maximizing profit? I say this becuase it was rumored on other forums that this has been happening. But then these are rumors.
Maximizing profit. OTOH I have heard of a few distributors doing that to gun stores, even after being paid.

SlamFire1
February 5, 2013, 05:16 PM
I have a friend who owned a camera store. People would come in to handle the cameras, see how they functioned, the features, then leave to buy them on line.

It is very hard for a brick and mortar store to compete against the web.

dbp
February 5, 2013, 05:28 PM
This.

I have a bigger problem with people uisng the local store to ogle and fondle then buy on line saving just enough to be offset by the shipping and handling. If we continue this behavior we won't have to worry about what the local gun store does because there won't be any local gun stores.
I bought my Glock 26 Gen4 on Gunbroker because I could save $100 over the best price at LGS. That was after shipping and FFL fees were added - still saved $100.

Maybe $100 means more to me than some others. Used to buy 8 boxes of 9mm ammo. :(

jeff-10
February 5, 2013, 08:35 PM
I've always encouraged my local gun shops to sell on GunBroker, that way I can view the inventory and prices without going to the store. It also means they usually carry a larger inventory because they move more product. I have previously bought a shotgun I first viewed on GunBroker at the store.

All these questions on the forums about the morality of merchants selling there products during a price bubble is a little disconcerting. Honestly, I cannot imagine picking up anything gun related for the next 3 months or. I figure by then the supply will again catch up with demand and I can pick up what I want without the craziness.

mrvco
February 5, 2013, 08:44 PM
If they make their inventory available in-store, then I don't have a problem with it. The store near me that does quite a bit of GunBroker sales definitely has the best in-stock inventory and prices in the area, although the service can be hit-or-miss.

xwingband
February 5, 2013, 08:50 PM
A gunshop... I don't really have a problem with as the increased audience could get them more sales and thus purchasing power with distributors. I've bought more at the place that has the best selection. I could have saved $50 if I went to another store but I wanted to compare two models and the more expensive one had both.

Sometimes too for selection, even they don't have it and online was my only option. I wanted a 22/45 months ago and no one had it.

I have a real beef with a distributor selling online though! They're exploiting their relationship with the manufacturer by selling at retail prices. Making yourself the middle man and the end man to me is unethical. I saw this with a KSG on gunbroker, it was a distributor. That pissed me off to no end since I haven't seen some kel-tec models at all, gunshows included, and they put a few up online.

mdauben
February 8, 2013, 11:17 AM
Store owner/Business takes orders (no cash exchange-just an order with cc on file ) and places them on backorder status. Backorders come in and instead of filling them at promised prices, sells them on GB or other site.

Ethical or just maximizing profit? I say this becuase it was rumored on other forums that this has been happening. But then these are rumors.

Maximizing profit.
I'd have to disagree, IMO while not illegal it is unethical. I know some people don't seem to place much value in verbal agreements these days, but if my LGS pulled this on my I would never do buisness with them again. YMMV.

Dr.Rob
February 8, 2013, 07:16 PM
Plenty of retailers do both.

Now granted I'd hate to see it online, go to the store to look it over and find in the meantime it's sold... but that's a chance you take.

JohnnyK
February 8, 2013, 11:33 PM
i do like gb and have bought a bunch of stuff from gb... but I find it interesting when compaines like Atlantic firearms who has sold out on pretty much all of their rifles and I'm on a couple of their "we'll notify you when this is back in stock" lists they have some rifles on gb... whether there are people in line for those rifles or not, I don't know but I would find it annoying and in bad taste if there were people waiting for a specific firearm and the retailer had it in stock but wouldn't sell to them so they could list on gun broker... my .02

WardenWolf
February 8, 2013, 11:51 PM
All it does is increase visibility and availability of their product. Gun shops, particularly those that deal in used guns and surplus guns, often get some unusual items in that have a niche market. They may not be able to sell them easily locally, but they may get big bucks for them online. It's an excellent way for them to continue in business and find buyers for items that may be difficult to sell. Basically, it's an important part of doing business in the modern world.

Some people may hate me for saying this, but I've purchased very few of my firearms from local shops. Why? Simply because no one ever has had what I want when I had the money to pay for it. Lots of items are just floating around, but there's no reliable supply at any given point. So when I have money available, and am wanting something specific, where do I go? The Internet, of course. If I can find it from someone local, that's a bonus, but, if not, I don't sweat it.

Atlantic Firearms
February 9, 2013, 09:57 AM
JohhnyK , we have been selling on Gunbroker for 8 -10 years and allocate about 90% of our items for sale via the web site and a few for Gunbroker. Gunbroker offers us a advertising tool and more customers find our web site. So if we get in 15 rifles 12 go to web site sales and the others to Gunbroker and that has been the way for years .

Garmangabis
February 9, 2013, 10:04 AM
Nothing is stopping you from sitting at home and shopping at the local store from your computer. Having worked in a gun store I can assure you the "loyal" customer does not buy everything from one source, free market economics is exactly that, free. The laws of supply and demand.

I would rather the gun store be financially healthy and still there than refuse to sell on line and close.

U-235
February 9, 2013, 11:23 AM
I don't see anything wrong with using all available resources to sell your products. I do agree with others that the online inventory should be available to anyone who walks in to the store.

We use the term "Local Gun Shop" a lot but most business owners today even if it is a two person mom and pop operation will have some sort of online presence. Once you are online you are no longer local, you are connected world-wide.

420Stainless
February 9, 2013, 05:17 PM
My favorite LGS sells stuff online all the time - don't bother me a bit. He usually posts items that don't have a high demand locally, but may be of particular interest to a select set of customers. I also wouldn't be surprised if he called his usual set of local collectors to tell them what he has before he posts them, but since I'm not big money I don't know that for sure. Might as well get niche merchandise out in front of as many possible interested buyers as he can rather than sit on it for months waiting for the right person with the right opportunity to come in. In the same way, he doesn't have any real problem looking up something I'm interested from someone else's online inventory and doing the transfer for me. In the meantime, he still gets a fairly decent supply of interesting used guns coming through his shop that I get to go fondle on a regular basis.

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