9mm decision time


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g_one
February 5, 2013, 01:31 PM
Ok guys, I know that variations on this conversation happen pretty often, and I'm usually the one thinking to myself, "why ask us when you can read through the tons of other research and opinions?", but it's nice to get some conversations going and get some fresh opinions.

Even though it's not, let's assume that this handgun is going to be the only other handgun I will ever own besides my CCW. I'm asking specifically as it pertains to:
Use: range gun + motorcycle open carry + home defense
Reliability: even though I plan on keeping it cleaned and well lubed, I want something that will still be reliable even if I don't.
Good feeding with all types of ammo (cheap factory stuff, handloads)
I won't be feeding it a steady diet of +P, but I want it to be able to stand up to it if I ever decided to.

The most common advice is, put your hands on it and get whatever feels best. Well, I completely agree, so don't worry about any input on ergonomics and handling. I've put all four of these guns in my hand and shot a box of ammo through all of them at one point or another over the last five years, and they all feel just fine to me.

And to add one last comment to a long-winded... the 92 is only on there as a long shot. I really like the way it looks, and with a set of thin grips it feels good in my hand, but I haven't heard great things about it in terms of how well it stands up over time and getting boxes of ammo pumped through it.

Thanks thr!

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ATLDave
February 5, 2013, 01:45 PM
The first three have the classic Browning configuation of controls, with a frame-mounted, down-to-fire safety. That both allows and really demands that the safety be "ridden" by the strong-hand thumb while you shoot. The Beretta is not the same, in that (unless you find one of a few very rare, out-of-production models) the safety is on the slide, and is up-to-fire.

With a pure range gun, a different control layout may not matter much, but for home defense, it may be advisable to pick the layout you like best.

Of the three Browning-type guns, only the 1911 was not designed around the 9mm. While there are 9mm 1911's that run well, they often have reliability issues, because the length of the 9mm round is much shorter than a .45ACP. You'd need to really research whether a particular make and model of 9mm 1911 is reliable enough for HD. Also, one of the great advantages (for those of us not currently subject to a 10-round mag limit) of 9mm is the ease with which high capacity can be had. Unless you're talking about some kind of double-stack not-a-true-1911, you're giving that up in a 1911.

Between the BHP and CZ in SAO, you're down to guns that are comparable in many ways. The BHP is a little thinner, if memory serves, and carries a slightly smaller magazine. The BHP trigger likely won't be great unless/until you deal with the magazine disconnect, and maybe 1 other issue. The CZ might have a slightly lower bore axis, but it's not as though a steel-framed, full-size 9mm is going to pose recoil problems anyway.

All good guns, but for what you've described as the use, I'd go with the CZ or the BHP, with aesthetics, availability, and price dictating the final choice for me.

g_one
February 5, 2013, 01:47 PM
Good point on the BHP trigger - I've looked into the magazine disconnect issues that it has, and I'm certain that if I do end up with a BHP, that will be the first thing to go

guyfromohio
February 5, 2013, 01:50 PM
For me.... It's the beretta or cz. I went beretta, but close.

DMK
February 5, 2013, 01:54 PM
For me.... It's the beretta or cz.

I agree. I have a CZ-75 and used to go shooting with a guy that had a Beretta 92. Both guns are comparable. About the same weight, size, capacity, reliability. The CZ is a bit cheaper, the Berreta is a bit prettier. You can't go wrong either way.

I love my CZ. Never let me down. Plus you can get a 22LR Kadet slide for it.

tnelson31
February 5, 2013, 01:58 PM
I have an RIA 1911 in 9mm and love it. The factory checkmate mag likes round nose only, I have two springfield branded metalform 9FRS-794 mags that do not mind hollow points.

For me it comes down to being single action only. I only use it at the range but if I was to use it for HD I would get a CZ75 SA for the extra capacity.

rjrivero
February 5, 2013, 02:00 PM
If it ain't a beauty contest, Glock 17 or M&P. If it is a beauty contest, then the 92 is the winner.

Roadking Rider
February 5, 2013, 02:01 PM
Love them CZ's.
179154

PabloJ
February 5, 2013, 02:05 PM
I would take stainless Beretta in .40S&W.

Dentite
February 5, 2013, 02:10 PM
Sounds like you've done your due diligence and ATL Dave has laid the general pros-cons of each very well IMO.

Now you just have to bite the bullet and buy the one you think you will enjoy the most.

Here's the good news...if after buying one you are still unsure you can always buy the other one now or later and have both...or all.

Maybe just think of it as which one should I buy first :)

The history, esthetics and feel of the BHP called to me so that's the one I bought. And the one I continue to buy haha.

C0untZer0
February 5, 2013, 02:17 PM
I can't stand slide mounted safeties flip-up safeties.

You didn't say if cost was an issue so I'd recomend the BHP, just because its classic.

The CZ 75B SA is as good a gun as the Browning and a lot cheaper.

If you are going to get a 1911 in 9mm, get one that's built from the ground up for the 9mm, not simply a company's 45 model but chambered in 9mm. Although I have to say, the 1911 in 9mm doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I always think "why not get a BHP?"

clang
February 5, 2013, 02:23 PM
I voted for the Hi-Power, mostly because of it's history and the fact that it was my first 9mm.

That being said, if the Beretta feels great to you, you should get it.

If you want a "lasts a lifetime" gun, something in all stainless steel is not a bad choice (the S&W 5906 comes to mind). No rusting is a good thing. The polymer guns (Glock, M&P, XD, etc. etc) are not bad choices either.

Pilot
February 5, 2013, 02:38 PM
I couldn't vote. I've got every one of those guns, and couldn't/wouldn't part with any of them. If you had the HK P7 on there I'd blow a gasket.

If you must decide, get the Browning Hi Power first followed by the CZ-75 variant, Beretta 92, and the 1911 in no particular order. I only chose the BHP first as to their relative rarity these days, especially for a reasonable price.

No worries on the Beretta 92FS holding up. It is a tank, and will feed anything. I just bought one, after avoiding them for years, and years. It is now one of my favorites.

mdauben
February 5, 2013, 02:58 PM
Subjectivly, I find the looks of the HP to be superior to all the others. I also like the handling and trigger much more than the 92. I've never shot a CZ so I can't comment on their handling.

PGT
February 5, 2013, 03:38 PM
I bought a Beretta and a CZ clone (EAA/Tanfoglio Witness Match). The Witness is tits but I haven't gotten the 92FS yet to compare.

C0untZer0
February 5, 2013, 03:53 PM
:) I bought my first handgun in 1985 - an H&K P7M8

I have never had a single failure with it EVER

I remember being at the Leesville, LA Walmart gun counter and the clerk told me to buy a Beretta 92 instead. He said it felt better in the hand, held more rounds, and was $50 cheaper.

The Beretta was $500, the P7M8 was $550 :)

BlindJustice
February 5, 2013, 04:25 PM
I have a CZ 75B in 9mm Parabellum, - very reliable, accurate and it fits
my hand DA/SA & has the thumb safety so you can carry it cocked &
locked but I manually drop the hammer to the safety ( half cock ) position. I also have a 1911 in .45 ACP as well as a 625 in .45 ACP. fwiw.

Randall

Outlaw Man
February 5, 2013, 04:40 PM
I agree with everything ATL Dave said. I can't say ANYTHING bad about the 92. I really like its design, other than the lack of a John Browning-style safety, so much so that I bought a Taurus PT92. I haven't been lucky enough to find one of those elusive thumb safety Berettas anywhere near my price range.

My personal preference is the Hi Power, purely because of looks and how it feels in my hand. It could just as easily have been the CZ for the same reasons.

Oh, and the John Browning safety bit was completely in jest. I believe neither of his designs mentioned here originally had a thumb safety. They just tend to be associated with them.

meanmrmustard
February 5, 2013, 05:17 PM
9mm and CZ75, a "match" made in heaven. :D

That's my vote.

Pilot
February 5, 2013, 06:14 PM
Yes, add a HK P7 variant (P7M8, P7M13, or P7 PSP) to the list to make it even harder for me to decide. :D

csa77
February 5, 2013, 06:41 PM
for me its got to be the Browning Hi Power. there aren't many pistols that rival its widespread use and history. for me its got the best ergonomics and looks of any pistol I have ever held.

Captcurt
February 5, 2013, 06:58 PM
Had to go with HP mainly because of my HP Practical in 40 S&W. I don't like the grips on the 92 (feels like I'm holding a 2x4). Love 1911 but would save them for 45 ACP. The CZ would be my second choice but they are a nice piece of equipment.

bc1023
February 5, 2013, 07:24 PM
The Browning HP for sure.

I'm fortunate enough to own just about every high end and/or classic 9mm ever built, but the plain old Hi-Power is my favorite. :)


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/022-7.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/023-4.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/020-3.jpg

beatledog7
February 5, 2013, 10:00 PM
I've never fired a 1911 in 9mm or a BHP, but I can reflect on the other two. The Beretta feels enormous in my hand, the CZ feels just right. Both shoot well and are about equally accurate, though I have not run a head to head test. The CZ is the better looking gun. From what I read and hear, both are about equally reliable.

The Beretta is more flexible, but that's because you specified a CZ-75B SA. I do not carry SA pistols and therefore would not have one as my only gun. Unless there is a reason why you specified an SA, why not consider a normal SA/DA model? After all, that's how the 92 works.

For the use you specify--only gun--and the specific models you list, I'd go with the Beretta. But given a little leeway, I'd buy a CZ-75B

Jim PHL
February 5, 2013, 10:11 PM
I voted BHP. Best looking gun out there in my opinion and feels great in my hand. If I could only own 1 9mm my others would go, the HP would stay. Mine is extremely accurate and 100% reliable with any ammo I've fired in it. (I'd also add I don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices.)

IdahoSkies
February 5, 2013, 10:31 PM
"If it fits your hand" get the CZ. If shot all four and you really have two groupings. The 1911 is different, do you want a 1911? I think around a 9mm its like a mule, its not quite right, but it gets the job done. The Berretta, the slide mounted safety was a killer for me. Just totally different from what I have ever used, and I didn't like it. The BHP and the CZ, very very similar. I felt the CZ fit better and liked the recoil in my hand better. Your mileage may vary.

jim243
February 5, 2013, 11:12 PM
I chose none of the above. While I would recommend the CZ, the SA is such 1960's old technoligy that the BHP actually does it better with it's 1916 design.

It's time to get with the DA/SA actions that provide much more versitility in use and function.

My vote goes to the CZ 75 P-01 or PMR or even the 92 or PT92 all which can be used SA or DA. While I was born in the 1940's, I don't intend on using the technology of 70 years ago.

Just my opinion.
Jim

wow6599
February 5, 2013, 11:17 PM
I have owned 3 of your 4 choices - no 1911 in 9mm.

The 92 didn't stay with me very long....... I can't choose between the BHP or CZ 75......

Flip a coin

TrailWolf
February 6, 2013, 12:26 AM
Glock 17 :)

Voyager
February 6, 2013, 01:25 AM
Ok guys, I know that variations on this conversation happen pretty often, and I'm usually the one thinking to myself, "why ask us when you can read through the tons of other research and opinions?", but it's nice to get some conversations going and get some fresh opinions.

Even though it's not, let's assume that this handgun is going to be the only other handgun I will ever own besides my CCW. I'm asking specifically as it pertains to:
Use: range gun + motorcycle open carry + home defense
Reliability: even though I plan on keeping it cleaned and well lubed, I want something that will still be reliable even if I don't.
Good feeding with all types of ammo (cheap factory stuff, handloads)
I won't be feeding it a steady diet of +P, but I want it to be able to stand up to it if I ever decided to.

The most common advice is, put your hands on it and get whatever feels best. Well, I completely agree, so don't worry about any input on ergonomics and handling. I've put all four of these guns in my hand and shot a box of ammo through all of them at one point or another over the last five years, and they all feel just fine to me.

And to add one last comment to a long-winded... the 92 is only on there as a long shot. I really like the way it looks, and with a set of thin grips it feels good in my hand, but I haven't heard great things about it in terms of how well it stands up over time and getting boxes of ammo pumped through it.

Thanks thr!
I'd be partial to the Beretta, the CZ, and the Browning in about that order. Great nines all.

miles1
February 6, 2013, 03:53 AM
Ive had a Beretta and RIA on your list.Ive shot a friends BHP(sweet shooter).

I'll never ever part with my CZ 75.

bannockburn
February 6, 2013, 05:42 AM
One 9mm. pistol only...then it would have to be a Browning Hi-Power. Fits my hand perfectly and it has all of the necessary improvements already done to it (better high visibility sights, larger ambi safety, and a very nice trigger right out of the box). Closest runner-up would be the CZ-75B SA. Distant third would be a Commander size gun in that caliber.

Jed Carter
February 6, 2013, 08:16 PM
Had a CZ 75B and PCR, had the Beretta 92FS, still have a Colt MKIV Series70 1911 9mm and STI Trojan 9mm. May add a CZ 75B SA to my collection, but if I could only have one it would be the STI 1911.

taraquian
February 6, 2013, 10:38 PM
I voted CZ, that was what I bought when I made almost this same list a few years ago. However I chose CZ based on it being DA/SA over the HiPowers SA. I ruled out the Beretta due to the 'backwards' safety. I am looking for a Taurus 92 with the frame safety, and an Arcus DA HiPower clone....I'm not really much help am I?:)

Mikhail Weiss
February 6, 2013, 11:29 PM
This probably has no bearing whatsoever on your decision-making process, but if you picked the Beretta 92, you could use its magazines in Beretta's CX4 Storm carbine, were you ever to acquire one. Not sure the magazines for the others are cross-compatible with any sort of similar carbines.

Meanwhile, however, my vote goes to the Browning Hi-Power.

Pilot
February 7, 2013, 07:35 AM
I ruled out the Beretta due to the 'backwards' safety.

I avoided the Beretta 92FS for twenty years, mostly for this reason. I recently bought one on a lark, and I LOVE it. I am a huge BHP, and CZ fan and own several examples of both, but for an all around 9MM for home defense or range, the big Beretta or one of the 92 Compact variants are excellent. They are very well made, fit and finish is fantastic, and they are EASY to work on and modify yourself if you so choose. I spent $20 in parts from Brownells, and easily replaced my hammer spring, and hammer with lighter versions to make the already excellent trigger better.

I keep the safety off on my Beretta. I see no need for engaging one on a pistol with a long, DA first pull. My CZ PCR, Sigs, etc and other decocker guns, plus my DA revolvers have no safety and they carry just fine.

tarosean
February 7, 2013, 08:57 AM
BHP or Beretta.
Hi power is the most ergonomic out of all those, nice full size pistol that is thin and easily concealable. The beretta is good and there are several variations of the 92 from DA without a safety to SAO models.

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