Paying off G20 opinions and info wanted.


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mrnic3guy1989
February 6, 2013, 01:31 PM
I recently put $200.00 down on a gen 3 G20 at mg LGS for $598.00 that's including tax and background check fees. I want to shoot the heaviest and hottest loads I could find from buffalo bore and double tap. I have read that their maybe insufficient case support in the stock Glock chamber and will be buying an after market Lone wolf 6.02" barrel for added support and velocity. Also a heavier stainless steel guide rod and spring 22#s. I plan on reloading and hand loading in the future as well eventually making my own hot loads. Is this setup recommended or will the stock glock eat it and ask for seconds?

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Ryanxia
February 6, 2013, 01:34 PM
Not to bring your question off topic but this is one of the reasons universal background checks are no good, some places it seems already have "background check fees" imagine what those fees will be when you have to go through a dealer to transfer a firearm?

mrnic3guy1989
February 6, 2013, 01:37 PM
I wrote and e-mailed Rothfus district 13 PA, and Bob Casey here in Pennsylvania.

PabloJ
February 6, 2013, 01:43 PM
I recently put $200.00 down on a gen 3 G20 at mg LGS for $598.00 that's including tax and background check fees. I want to shoot the heaviest and hottest loads I could find from buffalo bore and double tap. I have read that their maybe insufficient case support in the stock Glock chamber and will be buying an after market Lone wolf 6.02" barrel for added support and velocity. Also a heavier stainless steel guide rod and spring 22#s. I plan on reloading and hand loading in the future as well eventually making my own hot loads. Is this setup recommended or will the stock glock eat it and ask for seconds?
Congratulations. The G20/G21 are among the best duty type weapons ever made. The stoutest load I use sporadically is Winchester 175gr 'Silvertip'. The advice you seek should be obtained from the manufacturer.

2zulu1
February 6, 2013, 02:48 PM
I have a gen 3 G20 with a Lonewolf barrel and stock recoil spring/guide rod setup. I also have a G20 SF with Lonewolf barrel, stainless guide rod with a flat ISMI 22# recoil spring, in addition, there's a 6" KKM barrel that's currently in the G20.

Early on there was a very bulged Winchester casing that couldn't be resized and I haven't shot through a Glock 10mm barrel since that experience.

Be sure to test JHP bullet expansion and integrity before you spend a lot of your hard earned $$$s on boutique ammunition. Speer #14 limits their JHP bullet designs to 1300fps. While their shallow cavity Gold Dots can and are driven faster, there are no shallow cavity Gold Dots for the 10mm.

This

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/10mm155GD1420fps007.jpg

and this


http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/40cal165GD1500fps016.jpg

are what Gold Dots look like when they are driven faster than their design and construction parameters. Other JHP designs can and do fragment worse than Gold Dots, seriously diminishing soft tissue penetration. If you handload, you can find a JHP's velocity sweet spot that will determine the bullet's impact velocity window.

The 10mm will push a lot of stuff out of the way when a lot of stuff gets in the way, but 40cal JHPs have their limitations.

One of the best attributes of the 10mm is its potential as a trail/hunting caliber, especially when loaded with heavy WFNs or XTPs. :)

Adam the Gnome
February 6, 2013, 03:23 PM
There is a G20 in the case here that I wish would come home with me.
Is this background check fee a new thing? Bought a pistol from Buds a few weeks ago with no fee.

Teachu2
February 6, 2013, 03:33 PM
There is a G20 in the case here that I wish would come home with me.
Is this background check fee a new thing? Bought a pistol from Buds a few weeks ago with no fee.
It varies by state.

jmr40
February 6, 2013, 06:17 PM
I've never had a problem with Double Tap or several other pretty hot loads. I chronogaphed 200 gr hardcast @1315 fps with no problems. The G-20 and S&W 1006 series are the only 2 gun designed from the ground up for the hottest 10mm loads. You won't have any problems.

Edarnold
February 6, 2013, 10:10 PM
The only way to find out if your Gen 3 Glock stock barrel supports the case sufficiently is to shoot something like the Silvertips and check the cases for excessive expansion. There have reports of Glock K-Bs from several generations, supposedly the later production guns have fewer problems.

In my opinion, the concern about driving bullets like the Speer 'too fast' from the 10mm round is putting too much weight on the FBI test standards. If the bullet blows a cantaloupe size wound cavity in a human torso, whether it penetrates 12 inches or not is moot. Time was, bayonets had 17" blades because 'they had to be'. Then some guy made observation that the human torso is only about 8" thick: since then bayonets have gotten much shorter and nobody has complained.

IMHO

2zulu1
February 7, 2013, 02:37 AM
^^^^^^ Hey, if you choose to disregard Speer engineer parameters, FBI protocol tests and like 8" of penetration, then load for uber fast velocities. :)

ku4hx
February 7, 2013, 07:46 AM
I have a Gen2 20 bought in 1991; it has the most generous chamber you'll find on any Glock. The highest power Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and my own (which rivals them both) produce no case bulges. I use Starline brass for max loadings. I did find BB's advice to use a heavier recoil spring to be true in providing small velocity variations.

The beauty of the 10mm cartridge is its versatility. I too like full house wrist-benders, but a good 175-180 grain cast boolit at about 1,100 fps is a joy to shoot.

mrnic3guy1989
February 7, 2013, 08:42 AM
2zulu1 and ku4hx thanks for your input as well as everyone else. 2zulu1 those pictures are much appreciated the over powered Hp pic was wild. I won't be carrying HP in the G20 I just got it for backpacking and a hunting sidearm but if anyone knows of any reasonable target ammo I'd love to hear it.

Thank you, Mrnic3guy

ku4hx
February 7, 2013, 09:10 AM
... anyone knows of any reasonable target ammo I'd love to hear it.
With a couple of notable exceptions, most commercial 10mm ammunition is watered down from the original spec and its full potential. What exactly are you looking for?

For a long while I shot IDPA with my model 20. My "target" load was a 175 grain TCL right at 1,100 fps. For the 10mm that's a mid range "target" load.

You can always look here: http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/10mm?sort=1&group=3

tarosean
February 7, 2013, 09:35 AM
Reloading will be your only source of reasonable ammo.

mrnic3guy1989
February 7, 2013, 09:53 AM
1,100 fps won't suffice, I suppose when I get the money Ill have to pick up the equipment and learn to hand load and reload.

Fencer
February 7, 2013, 10:46 AM
I am an avid reloader, and early own I was noticing the "Glock Bulge" around the bottom of the case in my Gen3 model 20. I ordered a 6" ported Storm Lake barrel and have not had the issue recur. If you are going to be hand loading, especially if you are loading super hot loads, I would suggest a barrel with good case support.

Fishbed77
February 7, 2013, 11:39 AM
background check fees.

Not sure where you live, but I've never paid a background check fee.

That sounds entirely unconstitutional.

ku4hx
February 7, 2013, 12:27 PM
1,100 fps is not sufficient for what? How much power do you need to punch targets? My "Summer load" is a 150 grain Golden Saber BJHP over 16.5 grains of AA9. Out of my G20 it clocks at 1,450 fps avg. My "Winter load" is a 180 grain Golden Saber BJHP at 1,300 fps avg. using the same powder. But neither of them are what most shooters would classify as a "reasonable target load".

mrnic3guy1989
February 7, 2013, 12:30 PM
Sry I was reading n posting during class for target loads I don't mind rly but wild prefer equal or nearly equal performance to what I will carry.

chris in va
February 7, 2013, 02:26 PM
I suspect a NICS check fee will be commonplace if 'universal' checks become mandatory. Gun stores don't charge if you buy a gun from them, but if someone just wants a transfer done between parties, it's the store's time you're using to do it with.

2zulu1
February 7, 2013, 03:45 PM
2zulu1 and ku4hx thanks for your input as well as everyone else. 2zulu1 those pictures are much appreciated the over powered Hp pic was wild. I won't be carrying HP in the G20 I just got it for backpacking and a hunting sidearm but if anyone knows of any reasonable target ammo I'd love to hear it.

Thank you, Mrnic3guy
I like Missouri Bullet Co, 150grs should make for a good practice weight.

For serious critter carry try Double Tap's 200gr WFNGC to handload. Avoid DT's 230gr WFNs as they weigh in between 221-223 grains. My current 200gr WFNGC load chronographs in the low 1200s through a 4.6" barrel, it goes through a lot of bone that destroys JHPs.

OregonJohnny
February 7, 2013, 04:39 PM
Avoid DT's 230gr WFNs as they weigh in between 221-223 grains.

Just curious, but is there a reason to avoid this load from Double Tap other than because of a slight misrepresentation in their advertising by 7 grains of bullet weight?

A 223 grain .40 caliber bullet is still significantly heavier than a 200 grain .40 caliber, with better sectional density. The heavier bullet will almost certainly penetrate deeper when both bullets are pushed to their full velocity potential in identical barrels, all other things being equal (bullet shape, brinell hardness, meplat diameter).

Mainsail
February 7, 2013, 04:46 PM
I don't have a chrono, but my wrist says that (oddly enough) the aluminum cased Blazer ammo is hotter than some other 10mm practice rounds I've shot. Not terribly scientific I know.

The biggest problem you may have with the G20 is the way it makes you want a G29 as well.

http://www.topohiker.com/2Gs.png

Dakotared
February 7, 2013, 07:01 PM
If you want the best 10mm ammo that you can BUY go to underwood http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx

If you want the best 10mm ammo anywhere load your own :)

Now if you want a gun that you do not have to modify to shoot said best round Do not get a g lock:p

Seven For Sure
February 7, 2013, 07:27 PM
It's the standard $5 NICS fee as far as I know. If you hav'nt purchased from a valid FFL you would'nt know about it. Nothing wrong buying a used firearm legally by way of non-FFL but that may be why you're not familiar with the form and $5 charge.

Seven For Sure
February 7, 2013, 07:31 PM
I suspect a NICS check fee will be commonplace if 'universal' checks become mandatory. Gun stores don't charge if you buy a gun from them, but if someone just wants a transfer done between parties, it's the store's time you're using to do it with.
I've bought *** firearms in the last 20 years. Rifles, handguns - they all had NICS forms. Used to be in Florida NICS was'nt required for CWP holders but it is now for all.

meanmrmustard
February 7, 2013, 09:27 PM
I recently put $200.00 down on a gen 3 G20 at mg LGS for $598.00 that's including tax and background check fees. I want to shoot the heaviest and hottest loads I could find from buffalo bore and double tap. I have read that their maybe insufficient case support in the stock Glock chamber and will be buying an after market Lone wolf 6.02" barrel for added support and velocity. Also a heavier stainless steel guide rod and spring 22#s. I plan on reloading and hand loading in the future as well eventually making my own hot loads. Is this setup recommended or will the stock glock eat it and ask for seconds?
The Lone Wolf is a better choice. The chamber support allows for protection from bulging.

gearhead
February 7, 2013, 09:51 PM
I've never paid a NICS check fee, every handgun I've ever purchased was from an FFL.

Dakotared
February 7, 2013, 09:55 PM
Why should one have to buy a aftermarket barrel just to shoot the round that the gun was made for? Too many glock guys find this acceptable.

mrnic3guy1989
February 7, 2013, 10:10 PM
Thanks again all for your input. Does anyone recomme kkm barrels or any other drop ins over Lone wolf?

mrnic3guy1989
February 7, 2013, 10:16 PM
Well Dakota I just am a fan of Glocks less moving parts more rounds and are like the Ak47 of handguns. For just under 600 for the gun 175 for the barrel that's compare to sly cheap to a customized 1911 or colt delta idk prices on those or the EAA but I wild guess the block with a new barrel is cheaper. I think glock just made the gun with less support because most 10mm loads are not utilized to full potential however I have heard otherwise that it may be just fine. My theory is that the chamber has more tolerance to increase realiability like the ak47 is loose they say looser is better idk just a thought.

mrnic3guy1989
February 7, 2013, 10:17 PM
I live in SW Pennsylvania we have to pay a fee and have a background check to buy and I even needed references for my carry permit.

meanmrmustard
February 7, 2013, 10:32 PM
Why should one have to buy a aftermarket barrel just to shoot the round that the gun was made for? Too many glock guys find this acceptable.
It wasn't designed around full power loads. 10mm "lite" isn't exactly the threshold of power for the Glock, its the chamber that's the hindrance.

It's a reloaders cartridge; I find a barrel swap acceptable if necessary to tap into a weapons true potential.

K1500
February 8, 2013, 12:00 AM
Shoot it stock first. I believe newer G20's have a tighter chamber than the older ones. My G20sf handles the limited amount of Underwoods and Winchester STHP just fine, with no pronounced smilies.

Hamburger
February 8, 2013, 12:05 AM
Double Taps should be just fine.

We've seen enough of them chrono'ed on YouTube

2zulu1
February 8, 2013, 01:19 PM
Just curious, but is there a reason to avoid this load from Double Tap other than because of a slight misrepresentation in their advertising by 7 grains of bullet weight?

A 223 grain .40 caliber bullet is still significantly heavier than a 200 grain .40 caliber, with better sectional density. The heavier bullet will almost certainly penetrate deeper when both bullets are pushed to their full velocity potential in identical barrels, all other things being equal (bullet shape, brinell hardness, meplat diameter).
Good points.

Other issues with the DT 230gr WFNs is they have a tendency to tumble in trajectory after about 20'-30' when fired through a Glock barrel. Aftermarket barrels, such as Lonewolf, correct this problem.

The box of DT 230gr WFNs I have were very poorly lubricated, the 200grs were properly lubed and weighed w/i tenths of a grain, +/- 200grs.

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