10mm?


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Dryft
February 6, 2013, 11:35 PM
Hey y'all,

So, as it should be obvious to all, there's a bit of an ammunition shortage going on...

But, in Cabela's the other day, they had plenty of 10mm! Yeah, it's a little more expensive than some of the other handgun rounds out there, but in a quick look over at BulkAmmo.com they had plenty too and the price per round isn't a heck of a lot higher than .45 or anything else.

So, to that end, what are some of the top 10mm pistols out there according to you? This would be more of an "interesting option" question rather than "I've gotta buy one so I can get ammo" for one simple fact:

Ammunition producers are going to make the most popular calibers first.

I've never put a lot of thought into 10mm though, and would love to hear opinions!

Thanks y'all.

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Elkins45
February 6, 2013, 11:39 PM
If you get a Glock you can buy a 357 Sig barrel for it. That way you can have two calibers that might remain on the shelf longer during a freak out.

Glock and EAA are the only current production guns I know of with the exception of some high dollar 1911 makers. The best 10mm guns were the 10XX series by S&W but they have been out of production for 20 years now.

I love the 10mm (and also the 357 Sig) but I'm a reloader. Factory ammo availability only matters insomuch as its a source of reloadable brass.

C0untZer0
February 7, 2013, 12:04 AM
Yes you can get a big Glock and convert down to different calibers.

Another gun that I think is a nice 10 though is the EAA Witness Hunter:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=165394&stc=1&d=1338441245

orionengnr
February 7, 2013, 12:14 AM
Dan Wesson built several nice 1911 models. I have a stainless Bobtail Commander in 10mm.

saturno_v
February 7, 2013, 01:20 AM
The only 10mm in production and worth of consideration are the Glock 20 and some high priced 1911 like the Colt Delta Elite (not sure if still in production) and Dan Wesson/Kimber.


The Glock is strong and reliable but is not for everybody because of the "funny" trigger and lack of external hammer......and it is a polymer pistol.

Furthermore, the standard barrel has polygonal rifling which is not the best to fire hardcast bullets, which comprise a lot of the hot full spec wildlife defence 10mm ammo out there

Do yourself a favor and steer clear of the EAA pistols...Customer Service is a big joke (I would not trust that company to run a lemonade stand, let alone selling firearms)

The pistols itself have quality control isses, some run perfectly off the bat, others are jam-o-matic lemons....and you have to deal with EAA and pay for shipping to and from

To complete the picture, some EA Witness 10mm models cannot sustain a healthy dose of true 10mm ammo (meaning full SAAMI specs, not the 40 S&W power level of the common commercial 10mm ammo) without cracking the frame or the slide or doing some expensive modification (personal experience).


The last (and best for me) option is getting your hands on one of the S&W 10mm, the best platform for the round by far, but you better to hurry up because these are going up in price in the used market.

mljdeckard
February 7, 2013, 01:26 AM
A ways down on my list, I am considering a 10mm kit from Fusion Arms.

surjimmy
February 7, 2013, 01:32 AM
Bought this custom by Chuck Warner off this site about 3yrs ago. It is one of my favorite pistol's to carry. It is always on my hip when I go deer hunting. It is legal to hunt with a 10mm in Oklahoma, and it makes a great CC SD weapon,
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/surjimmy/IMG_1965.jpg

Inebriated
February 7, 2013, 02:00 AM
The Glock 20 and Colt Delta Elite are excellent guns.

If I were looking for a 10mm, the G20 would likely get my vote, closely followed by the Colt.

IdahoSkies
February 7, 2013, 02:05 AM
There are actually some 10mm revolvers out there that are pretty nice. EAA's Witness is nice, if you buy used check the slide, the early rounded slides had some teething problems but the later model ones work well. Witnesses (at least the large frame models) can swap out slides from a 22lr all the way up to the might 10mm. Very versatile.

Smith and Wesson has the 1006 model, not in production but they are around.

But Glocks handle the 10mm really well. In the Gen 3 series there are four pistols a 20 (full size) and a 29 ("compact" but really about the size of a 19). There are the "small frame" (SF) models of both as well. I bought a 29sf and it is my favorite pistol. It fit my hand better than the 20, but your mileage may very.

I don't like Glocks generally, but in a 10mm they really are one of the best things out there.

PabloJ
February 7, 2013, 02:36 AM
If you get a Glock you can buy a 357 Sig barrel for it. That way you can have two calibers that might remain on the shelf longer during a freak out.

Glock and EAA are the only current production guns I know of with the exception of some high dollar 1911 makers. The best 10mm guns were the 10XX series by S&W but they have been out of production for 20 years now.

I love the 10mm (and also the 357 Sig) but I'm a reloader. Factory ammo availability only matters insomuch as its a source of reloadable brass.
I would guy .40S&W barrel instead of .357Sig.

Osageid
February 7, 2013, 02:41 AM
I was new to the 10 mm world and bought a G20 SF, I absolutely love the platform! The G20 handles the full power loads very nicely! Can't go wrong with G20


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

plateshooter
February 7, 2013, 08:21 AM
I had an EAA Witness. Mine was a good trouble free gun but I always found myself wondering about the slide or frame cracking even tho it never did. I traded it on a Glock 20 and for me, it was a great move.

I have an extended aftermarket barrel in 10mm, and a 40 S&W conversion barrel as well. The gun is utterly reliable using either cartridge.

IMO the Glock 20 is the best thing going for 10mm at a reasonable price.

ku4hx
February 7, 2013, 08:39 AM
Glock 20 and Smith 1006 were my choices in the early '90s. If I were in the market for a third, I'd take either.

hAkron
February 7, 2013, 09:21 AM
10MM is a cool cartridge. Its got some interesting history, and there are some very neat guns chambered in this round. There is also a really great forum dedicated to this cartridge and the guns for which it is chambered: http://10mm-firearms.com/index.php Many of the members on that forum are also members of this forum.

hAkron
February 7, 2013, 09:31 AM
Do yourself a favor and steer clear of the EAA pistols...Customer Service is a big joke (I would not trust that company to run a lemonade stand, let alone selling firearms)

The pistols itself have quality control isses, some run perfectly off the bat, others are jam-o-matic lemons....and you have to deal with EAA and pay for shipping to and from

To complete the picture, some EA Witness 10mm models cannot sustain a healthy dose of true 10mm ammo (meaning full SAAMI specs, not the 40 S&W power level of the common commercial 10mm ammo) without cracking the frame or the slide or doing some expensive modification (personal experience).


This is good advice. The upper end EAA models don't seem to have the same problems as the base models, and EAA seems to be transitioning back to the square slide, but stories of poor customer service abound. Even the working ones are undersprung. Not that they are bad guns, but they are the most likely of the available options to require remediation right out of the box. The EAA Witness should really only be considered by people who know what they are getting into.

Again - NOT bad guns, but anecdotal evidence (based on Internet posts -- so whatever that's worth) suggests that there is a higher likelihood that you may have an issue with an EAA Witness than say a Glock or a new production Colt Delta Elite. Combine that with (again anecdotal evidence) that you might have customer service issues...I would choose this option only if I fully understood the caveats.

Another note - Some guys who shoot the 10MM Glocks suggest an aftermarket barrel that provide more chamber support than the factory barrel. This is especially true if you are going to reload, or use top end hot loads.

Older Delta Elites lacked proper chamber support, and were also susceptible to frame cracking. Colt now makes a relief cut in the frame to avoid the cracking.

returningfire
February 7, 2013, 10:26 AM
If you can get a 10 at a fair price do it. Had a Delta Elite, wish I still did. It's like this, 40S&W is the Cheerleader, and the 10MM in the Linebacker.

tarosean
February 7, 2013, 10:31 AM
Third gen S&W 10xx
The tank that just soaks it up and keeps rolling.

Dryft
February 7, 2013, 11:21 AM
You know, I started this thread out of sheer curiousity - now, I must say, I really want one!

That Delta Elite looks positively awesome, and though I've never been a huge fan, I would totally carry a Glock in the field and leave the .357 revolver at home.

Thanks folks, now I have to save up even more money. It never ends!

hoefj
February 7, 2013, 11:31 AM
i didnt see anyone mention RIA 10mm 1911. I picked one up about a month ago and i love it so far! RIA has a pretty good reputation for building reliable 1911's and mine hasnt been any different. something to look into. They have the tactical 1911 and the tactical 2011 (full length rail).

BigG
February 7, 2013, 11:39 AM
My fav?
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/BigG_photos/Picture19079.jpg

ATLDave
February 7, 2013, 11:45 AM
FWIW, I have an EAA 10mm Match Elite, and it's my favorite pistol. And EAA took reasonably good care of me when I had an issue. But the comments about those sometimes needing some tweaking are right. Once you've got it how you like it, though, you get a near-1911-quality trigger, way better chamber support than a Delta or a Glock (important for hot rounds and reloading), and a steel frame that really soaks up the recoil. And it's cheaper than the used 1006's you can find, or than the 1911's. JMHO.

Houser52
February 7, 2013, 12:02 PM
The 10mm Dan Wesson Bobtail is reliable, accurate and has plenty of power.
This 120# doe was taken at 45 steps. She only made it about 40 yards.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd66/houser52/IMG_0059_zps7ec40f64.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd66/houser52/10mmdeershoulderwound.jpg

Queen_of_Thunder
February 7, 2013, 01:20 PM
The Rock Island and the Colt Delta Elite are on my list to add to my S&W 610 and Glock 20.

saturno_v
February 7, 2013, 01:23 PM
The king of 10mm in my book....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Handguns/SW1006.jpg

mrnic3guy1989
February 7, 2013, 01:42 PM
G20 paying a tad under Six can't beat it but just need a aftermarket barrel for case support. 700 tops compared to the other options.

Dryft
February 7, 2013, 01:59 PM
I didn't know Rock Island Armory made a 10mm!

Always a good option.

OregonJohnny
February 7, 2013, 02:46 PM
I spent about 3 years, on and off, debating with myself whether or not to buy a 10mm. Maybe part of me was hopelessly waiting for S&W or Springfield to come out with a polymer 10mm to compete with Glock (I'm still waiting). Maybe part of me was trying to justify my 1911 as an all-around outdoor sidearm, if loaded with proper heavy flat nose +P loads. But every time I put the numbers to paper, the 10mm won hands down against all other common semi-auto cartridges, as well as some common revolver cartridges, when it comes to sectional density and energy, when using heavy hardcast loads from medium-length barrels. Not to mention the firepower of 15+1 rounds...

I finally broke down and bought a Glock 20SF about 2 months ago. I've got a year of black bear hunting, camping, and general "outdoors-ing" to do this year here in Oregon, and I'd like a capable, durable, lightweight sidearm to take along. Plus, the Glock is so ugly and durable, I don't care about getting it scratched up and dirty. Sure, I have a couple of .357 and .44 Magnum revolvers, but they are all heavier, wider, harder for me to shoot quickly and accurately, and hold MUCH less ammo than the Glock. 15 rounds of Double Tap 230-grain WFNGC @ 1,120 f/s. on my hip makes me feel a lot better than 6 rounds of any .357 Magnum.

The Glock SF models (which stands for short frame), feel just the slightest bit better in the hand than the regular models. In the G20SF, a few millimeters of width (from back strap to front strap) have been removed, allowing a slightly shorter trigger reach. I believe the Gen3 SF models have the same dimensions as their Gen4 counterparts, when used without any of the add-on back straps.

The Glock's polygonal barrel is not meant to be used with a large amount of lead bullets, but with quality hardcast gas-checked bullets (like the Double Tap referenced above), leading doesn't seem to be an issue with reviewers who have tested it. I've only put 10 or so rounds of this DT through my Glock so far, so I can't give you an accurate impression.

The only real downside I can think of with the Glock 10mm guns, is related to reloading (which is practically a necessity for 10mm). The pressure of the 10mm cartridge, coupled with Glock's rather loose tolerances in the chamber mouth area, give standard factory brass a little "belly" after being fired. I have successfully removed this small bulge from cases simply by running them through my RCBS sizing/de-capping die. But with multiple reloads of high-powered stuff, I'd keep a close eye on this symptom. I plan on using brand new brass for full-power reloads, and the once-fired brass for plinking loads. As others have mentioned, aftermarket barrels with much better chamber support can be found for the Glock 10mm guns, helping your brass last longer, and allowing you to shoot any kind of bullet you want.

The 10mm is a great round, with huge potential as an outdoor cartridge when loaded to it's top levels. And, as mentioned, 10mm ammo can often be found on gun store shelves when 9, 38, 40, 45, 357, and 44 are gone.

Jitterbug
February 7, 2013, 03:21 PM
I've been a 10mm fan since Smith came out with the 1006, since then I've had a G29 and currently have a 2007 Dan Wesson CBOB, it's a sweet pistol and makes for a very comfortable CCW for the front range in Colorado. I shoot and carry mine often.

I generally carry a 200 gr. BTB hardcast loaded at 1130 fps and consider it a decent woods load, in a pinch it would probably drop a Moose with a well placed shot if need be. I'd prefer my 4" 629 with 280 gr. BTB at 1150 fps and usually do have that on when in Moose or Brown bear country but the CBOB is a much handier carry then the 629 so if the largest critter is going to be a Black bear or lion I'm usually carrying the CBOB. A 200 gr. XTP at 1150 fps is a good lion load.

For when in the city I can swap a mag and run a 180 gr. Gold Dot at 1150 fps, this makes for a nice shooting load. A 180 XTP at 1200 fps is nice too but that is about the max that I want to push the 10mm 1911.

For plinking I run a 180 gr. bullet at about 950 fps and it's similar to shooting a .45 ACP.

Nobody mentioned Dan Wesson, find one on line if you want one of the nicest 1911's ever made, especially if you reload.

From a 135 gr. to 220 gr. from 1600 fps to 800 fps...it is a nice cartridge if I could only have one pistol it would be a 10mm.

Even though I'm not much of a Glock fan the G20's have a great reputation, if money was tight I'd get one of those or a good used 1006.

Dakotared
February 7, 2013, 10:53 PM
To chime in on EAA's customer service, In Dec I sent my 10mm wonderfinish in because the safety broke and the finish was coming off the inside of the slide. The side was not cracked.

When I sent it in they shipped it back about 3 weeks later and nothing was fixed. I called down to them the next day and talked with the lead gun smith. He was not pleasant to deal with but I kept my cool and explained the situation again to him. I sent it back to them. When I got it back I had a ambi safety, the older more squared slide, and adjustable sights. Now I fully agree that I should not have had to send it back to them the 2nd time, I feel that they took good care of me the 2nd time.

The gun is the most accurate one I own. I have never had any malfunction what so ever. And it fits in my hand way better then any gun I have ever had.

So if all you go on is how bad their CS is then you will be missing out on one hell of a good gun. And it has great case support so you will not be putting those smiles on your brass.

As much as I would love a Colt Delta they have worse case support then a Glock. My feelings on a Glock is that I should not have to buy a after market barrel just so I can shoot my gun. The one that comes with the gun should hold up to what it was designed to do.

meanmrmustard
February 7, 2013, 11:38 PM
To chime in on EAA's customer service, In Dec I sent my 10mm wonderfinish in because the safety broke and the finish was coming off the inside of the slide. The side was not cracked.

When I sent it in they shipped it back about 3 weeks later and nothing was fixed. I called down to them the next day and talked with the lead gun smith. He was not pleasant to deal with but I kept my cool and explained the situation again to him. I sent it back to them. When I got it back I had a ambi safety, the older more squared slide, and adjustable sights. Now I fully agree that I should not have had to send it back to them the 2nd time, I feel that they took good care of me the 2nd time.

The gun is the most accurate one I own. I have never had any malfunction what so ever. And it fits in my hand way better then any gun I have ever had.

So if all you go on is how bad their CS is then you will be missing out on one hell of a good gun. And it has great case support so you will not be putting those smiles on your brass.

As much as I would love a Colt Delta they have worse case support then a Glock. My feelings on a Glock is that I should not have to buy a after market barrel just so I can shoot my gun. The one that comes with the gun should hold up to what it was designed to do.
Except, the G20 wasn't designed with the true 10mm Auto cartridge pressures, but rather the lightened version that was the predecessor to the .40 S&W.

If you want popular factory loadings...then the G20 is fine.

If you want big boy performance, the barrel swap is a necessity. But, you can get threading, porting, muzzle brakes, and compensators to accentuate and modify performance. I'd say its worth the coin.

C0untZer0
February 8, 2013, 12:25 AM
Just FYI the EAA Witness Hunter is a different pistol than the regular full size Witness in 10mm

The full size Witness in 10mm is about an 8" pistol weighing 33oz, the Witness Hunter is a 10" pistol with a 6" barrel weighing 46 ounces. The longer / heavier slide makes a difference in the recoil characteristics and durability of the firearm.

saturno_v
February 8, 2013, 12:48 AM
Just FYI the EAA Witness Hunter is a different pistol than the regular full size Witness in 10mm

The full size Witness in 10mm is about an 8" pistol weighing 33oz, the Witness Hunter is a 10" pistol with a 6" barrel weighing 46 ounces. The longer / heavier slide makes a difference in the recoil characteristics and durability of the firearm.

...yes the EAA is still the same company to deal with....

Queen_of_Thunder
February 8, 2013, 02:27 AM
I didn't know Rock Island Armory made a 10mm!

Always a good option.
Yes there is a Rock Island in 10MM and I'm waiting for the call from the LGS that its in.

Thompsoncustom
February 8, 2013, 06:52 AM
Ya running a steady diet of the upper end stuff like Underwood's ammo through a Glock is a ticking time bomb.

S&W had one of the strong guns for 10mm but I would like to see over time how the RIA 10mm compares as the chamber of the new RIA is thicker then the old S&W's.

Tho if I was going to get a 10mm I think I would go with a witness because it's a CZ clone and I really like the CZ platform, probably would get the elite or higher because the base model's seem to have a higher chance of problems.

BigG
February 8, 2013, 09:51 AM
None of the 10mms built on the typical Colt/Browning design are going to be adequate for high pressure loads. Need to buy a dedicated platform or get a revo that shoots a true magnum.

I am a 10mm fan, but autos are good for some things but not platforms for max loading hot cartridges.

ATLDave
February 8, 2013, 10:46 AM
S&W had one of the strong guns for 10mm but I would like to see over time how the RIA 10mm compares as the chamber of the new RIA is thicker then the old S&W's.

Chamber thickness, or lack thereof, isn't where the problems come from. Nobody is blowing their chambers up. The brass fails long before the steel. Common problems running very hot rounds in a semi-auto include case failure, either from lack of case support or simply exceeding the strength of the brass around the case head, and then the mechanical effects of recoil on frame and/or slide (or their locking interface lugs or hood).

ATLDave
February 8, 2013, 10:51 AM
None of the 10mms built on the typical Colt/Browning design are going to be adequate for high pressure loads.

I think I understand what you're saying, but 10mm SAAMI pressure is 37.5k, IIRC, and .40 is 35k. So it's only a 7% increase in pressure. And 9+p is at 38.5k - higher pressure than 10mm. 10mm has greater case volume than either, so there's more force, but the peak pressure itself is not higher than several other common handgun calibers that work fine in tilting-barrel designs.

BigG
February 8, 2013, 10:52 AM
Right. The autos have a feed ramp and unless they make an abominable ramped bbl that imho "#*@^%" the beauty of the Colt Browning design, the brass will fail somewhere long before you hurt the steel.

g_one
February 8, 2013, 02:34 PM
Here's a question for you 10mm 1911'ers:

I understand that there is some debate on the weight of your recoil spring to balance out how fast/hard the slide racks back, vs how fast/hard it returns to battery, when using full-powered 10mm loads.

But, I stumbled across some conversation somewhere that asked the following question, and I never found an answer to it: if you want to have a heavier recoil spring so that the slide doesn't rack back quite as hard, and you also want a lighter recoil spring to avoid having the slide rack forward too hard, couldn't this be accomplished by leaving the recoil spring just where it is from the factory, and getting a heavier mainspring? This seems like it would be the perfect setup: limiting the backstroke, and leaving the return to battery at a nice light weight. Or is there some part of 1911 operation that would be harmed by having a heavier mainspring?

ATLDave
February 8, 2013, 02:51 PM
Heavier mainspring is generally going to cause a heavier trigger pull. That may be OK.

I've also read suggestions about slightly changing the geometry of the slide/hammer interface to provide some additional resistance at the begining of the recoil stroke. Don't know if that's feasible or a good idea, but certainly was interesting to read about.

Dryft
February 8, 2013, 03:06 PM
QoT - I would love to hear your opinion of the RIA 10mm when you get it!

It seems like the real issue with 10mm is the reloading factor - ie: with commercial loads there isn't a big deal shooting them out of whatever firearm you should choose, yet it seems you can really up the power factor with handloads and that's where perhaps some firearms may not be build strong enough. True? I don't reload, yet, so this is not a topic I am all that conversant on.

This has been a really informative thread - thank you to all who have contributed!

ATLDave
February 8, 2013, 04:00 PM
Not exactly. There are some sources for "real" 10mm ammo, such as Underwood. And finding stuff that's a little spicier than full-power .40 is pretty easy, and .40's themselves can be somewhat hard on pistols.

Gag_Halfront
February 8, 2013, 04:11 PM
I'll go ahead and throw my support behind the EAA 10mm variants. I have the newer model Hunter as well as the standard. I'm admitedly a bit of a witness fan so my oppinion is a bit biased but I've put hundreds of rounds through the standard and a couple hundred through the Hunter and I love them both. I do have a problem with my hunter failing to feed the second-to-last round of the mag. I called EAA, they were friendly and offered to fix it if I sent it to them. I haven't yet though because I can't stand the idea of shipping one of my favorite guns and also because I have heard that the CS at EAA is so hit-or-miss. If it was a defensive gun I'd be more worried about getting it fixed, but it's really just a pretty toy. :-)

The RIA 10mm is definitely on my list of future purchases as soon as I can save up some bucks. I can't wait to hear from those who have them.

Thompsoncustom
February 8, 2013, 08:26 PM
Chamber thickness, or lack thereof, isn't where the problems come from. Nobody is blowing their chambers up. The brass fails long before the steel. Common problems running very hot rounds in a semi-auto include case failure, either from lack of case support or simply exceeding the strength of the brass around the case head, and then the mechanical effects of recoil on frame and/or slide (or their locking interface lugs or hood).

This may be the case with 10mm I really don't know much about the round but I can say with 99% confidence that this does not apply to 9mm. as I've run well over a 100rd at 65k and a few over 70k psi testing the strength of a hi point. Now in a under supported barrel you might be able to blame the brass failing but it would be more of a design flaw. I might just keep pushing the psi to see where the brass fails as the gun is next to indestructible but if it blows I'm not worried, wouldn't be holding it of course.

And I wouldn't say no one is blowing there chambers up I've seen plenty of glock photos with split chambers.

harrygunner
February 8, 2013, 09:31 PM
Like to support the 10mm whenever I can. Great round.

My EDC:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/harrygunner/10mm/10mm_commander_back.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/harrygunner/10mm/10mm_commander_top.jpg

Havok7416
February 9, 2013, 05:43 AM
S&W 610 all the way. Then you can shoot .40 S&W with NO barrel change!

redneck2
February 9, 2013, 07:29 AM
I've got a G-20 for my house gun, equipped with an M6 laser/light on the rail. My hands are kinda small and holding it is like holding a brick. I hand load 180 grain Speer Gold Dots over a case full of Blue Dot powder. No bulge and plenty of zip.

My daughter is just getting into shooting. He looked at a number of pistols. The G 20 was easiest to operate in terms of racking the slide, and the trigger pull (though long) is the smoothest.

Had a Delta Elite, sold it. Biggest problem for a hand loader is chasing brass all over the yard after a range session.

PabloJ
February 9, 2013, 08:39 AM
I've got a G-20 for my house gun, equipped with an M6 laser/light on the rail. My hands are kinda small and holding it is like holding a brick. I hand load 180 grain Speer Gold Dots over a case full of Blue Dot powder. No bulge and plenty of zip.

My daughter is just getting into shooting. He looked at a number of pistols. The G 20 was easiest to operate in terms of racking the slide, and the trigger pull (though long) is the smoothest.

Had a Delta Elite, sold it. Biggest problem for a hand loader is chasing brass all over the yard after a range session.
The G20 is wonderful gun. Matter of fact I'm picking up Gen 4 G20 today.

kBob
February 9, 2013, 10:46 AM
One of my inner gang in highschool lives in Montana these days and has bear sign on his property and neighbors loose stock. He is also a firearms professional.

He was always a 1911 fan big time. Liked big revolvers as well.

Today his daily working on the property gun is the Glock 20.

The only 10mm 1911 I really liked was the near mythical Springfield Omega. I only shot an example a few rounds but liked it. They were longslide, lengthened front to back gripped 1911-ish guns that came in a case with .38 Super and .45 auto barrels and springs as well as the 10mm.(they appealed to my inner lower case survivalist being) I did not like the smaller Delta Elite and the LER just did not do it for me.

I am a big anti plastic guy....but..... if I just had to have a 10mm semi auto that I might reasonably find I think it would be the Glock.

That S&W 610 revolver look intersting though.....

-kBob

PabloJ
February 9, 2013, 12:34 PM
The problem with 610 and steel 10mm S&W pistols is that they weigh as much empty as G20 with fully loaded 15 round magazine.

Havok7416
February 9, 2013, 01:19 PM
The problem with 610 and steel 10mm S&W pistols is that they weigh as much empty as G20 with fully loaded 15 round magazine.
Some choose to see a problem, others may see reduced recoil in the high-end loads. When it comes to semi-auto 10mm guns the original S&Ws are still hard to beat IMO.

Elkins45
February 9, 2013, 05:20 PM
I would buy .40S&W barrel instead of .357Sig.

That defeats the purpose of having a gun that takes ammo likely to still be on the shelves. Everybody shoots 40, which means none will be available.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd66/houser52/IMG_0059_zps7ec40f64.jpg

Dude, you need to take some time off from hunting to see a dermatologist and get that nasty skin condition cleared up!

:D :neener::p

Thompsoncustom
February 9, 2013, 05:31 PM
Quote:
I would buy .40S&W barrel instead of .357Sig.
That defeats the purpose of having a gun that takes ammo likely to still be on the shelves. Everybody shoots 40, which means none will be available.


lol not around here .40 is the only thing left. No one here likes .40 i guess

PabloJ
February 9, 2013, 05:46 PM
lol not around here .40 is the only thing left. No one here likes .40 i guess
It defies explanation but just like four years ago the .40S&W ammo is plentiful.

Just about months ago I had choice of half dozen G24s at same table priced from $539 to $589. Did I get one? Noooo, I went for stupid five shot S&W 9mm revolver. I deserve to be kicked in the head by a donkey!:banghead:

Torian
February 10, 2013, 11:15 AM
I've been looking for a 10mm for CCW for awhile, and I recently picked up a new production 10mm EAA Witness Elite Match, and thought I'd throw in my two cents:

Picked it up for a little under 600 from gunbroker, and it came with one K10 magazine. The newer models have the serial number in black - mine is a 75xxx series.

I was torn between the Kimber Target and this gun, and ended up going with EAA because I wanted a double stack. I also wanted a 10mm that would devour full power loads like Underwood, and it doesn't disappoint. It weighs a little over 3 lbs loaded according to my scale, and has a great SA trigger.

I did make two changes to the weapon before shooting it. I replaced the factory spring with a 20 pound wolf spring (spring felt like it was around 12-14 pounds), and dropped in a henning guide rod (the design, according to henning, put stress on the frame over time). My goal to was save the frame and my wrist from as much recoil as possible. The factory spring is WAY too light to shoot anything but FBI sissy loads.

The new K10 magazines work well, and I just got an additional three sent to me from EAA (they are back in stock). They advertise them at 15 rounders, but only come with markings for 14 rounds, and I currently can fit 13 comfortably. Maybe they will loosen up over time.

I really believe they ironed out the slide issues that plagued this weapon for the last few years. They had a bad batch of steel they used to make slides, and used crappy magazines that didn't work with their weapons. While their customer service still isn't the best, after shooting this 10mm for awhile with full power loads, I have some confidence that they are back to making a good auto, at least as far as the Elite Match is concerned.

Spike_akers
February 10, 2013, 03:28 PM
The kimber eclipse custom II is available in 10mm.. they have the internal extractor too. Only reason I plan on giving it a try. http://www.kimberamerica.com/uploads/family-image/eclipseii.jpg

Backpacker33
February 10, 2013, 06:14 PM
I feel the S&W is the best choice. However, they seem to have disappeared from the used market.
I got to do a side-by-side comparison of the Glock and a Colt Delta Elite. Compared to the Colt, the Glock was difficult for me to shoot, I suppose due to its light weight. I also found the trigger hurt my finger, possibly due to the recoil.
The Colt exhibited impressive accuracy.

Backpacker33
February 10, 2013, 06:20 PM
Suits me. Shot off-hand.

Dryft
February 10, 2013, 08:03 PM
Well, gun shows occasionally treat me right!

All this talk got me itching, but I thought there wouldn't be a chance of seeing one of these any time soon - guess I was wrong, huh? Rock Island Armory 10mm Tactical, and it is all that and a bag o' chips.

Amazing fit and finish, solid as all get out, not even the slightest rattle. The front fiber optic is okay, we'll see how that looks outside, and the adjustable rear sight is beautiful. Trigger? Spectacular. Series 70. Well fit bobtail, and an ambi safety that locks in and out very well but will be replaced with a single side out of preference. It even has a magwell attached under the very nice grips!

Immediate changes? None. I'm gonna shoot it. Not a fan of skeletonized triggers, but that's not a big deal for the time being. The ambi will go, and I'll probably put in an extended mag release. The two magazines do not have bumpers installed, and that will be rectified at some point as well.

"Excited" is the word of the day folks.

2zulu1
February 12, 2013, 06:53 PM
Congratulations on your new Rock, looking forward to reading your range reports. I'm expecting to take delivery on a longslide tactical 1911 by summer time.

Currently I have a G20 and G20 SF, both with aftermarket Lonewolf barrels, plus there's a 6" KKM barrel if I want to push WFNs. Pushing JHPs to full 10mm velocities can be a big mistake, especially if the primary purpose is personal defense at personal defense distances.

Since the use of Underwood ammunition has been mentioned as a suggestion, I visited their website to learn more about their ammunition selection for the 10mm.
I'm dismayed by their Gold Dot selection because the 155/165gr bullets are being pushed too fast than the bullets were designed for.

http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto165graingolddotjacketedhollowpointboxof50.aspx

This what a 165gr Gold Dot's expansion should look like, 1.5 times the caliber with an advertised MV of 1150fps (#53970);

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/40165GD5370cowbone008.jpg

While this recovered GD was fired through a 40S&W carbine ~1500fps, three recovered 165gr Gold Dots shared the sheared off shape fired from a 1911/400 Corbon, <1400fps;


http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/40cal165GD1500fps016.jpg

The first customer review at the above Underwood link wrote highly about the wide expansion of a Gold Dot bullet, this 155gr GD (~1435fps) over expanded in a similar manner and is good for about 8" of soft tissue penetration;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/10mm155GD1420fps007.jpg

By comparison, a 357mag, 158gr, traditional Winchester JHP lead exposed design at 1437fps expanded 1.45x caliber and is good for ~19.5" of soft tissue penetration;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/357mag158grWinJHP1437fps005.jpg

What Underwood has failed to address for the consumer is that Speer engineers have designed their JHPs high velocity limit to 1300fps. Their advertised 155/1500fps and 165/1400fps Gold Dots far exceed their designed velocities, resulting in very diminished bullet performance. By contrast, the old school 357/158gr JHP was designed for magnum velocities some decades ago and still performs at magnum velocities today.

Speer does make shallow cavity Gold Dots that perform at elevated velocities. By increasing/decreasing the surface area within the JHP's hollow cavity, engineers design the velocity window sweet spot for each JHP. Magnum and 357SIG Gold Dots have shallow cavities while slower velocity calibers have deeper (increased surface area) cavities.

This is where Underwood has made another fundamental mistake in their product offerings, and this time it's with the 38 Super. Underwood loads the Super with 124gr Gold Dots, and XTPs, to 1350fps. Speer on the other hand uses the shallow cavity 125gr Gold Dot at 1335-1370fp for the 357SIG.

Again we can see a dramatic difference when the wrong bullet is used at the wrong velocity design. Like the 155gr Gold Dot pictured above, this is what a 124gr Gold Dot looks when it's pushed to fast;


http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/124GD1268fps003.jpg

For comparison, 38 Super/125gr Gold Dot @1436fps, ~15.6" soft tissue penetration;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/38Super125GD1436fps05321240grsrecovered006.jpg

For me, the 10mm comes into its own as a trail or a hunting caliber. Reduce velocities when carrying JHPs, 180s perform very reliably in the mid 1200s giving good penetration and crush cavities. For busting up bones and very deep penetration it's hard to beat the heavy WFNs at whatever velocities one wants to push them. :)

Xfire68
February 12, 2013, 07:24 PM
I was never a fan of Glock's but really wanted a 10mm. I just could not seem to save up the funds for a STI Perfect 10 so the G20 was it.

Only have owned it a few months but, this Glock has made me a big big fan!

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Ledge68/IMG_4470_zps2a2bd210.jpg

Torian
February 12, 2013, 08:27 PM
Some good points were made about gold dot. Great bullet, but even bonded...doesn't seem to hold up as well at higher velocities. This is why my bullet of choice is the XTP for underwood loads. It's a tough bullet (non bonded) and gives good penetration characteristics as a hollow point.

I still like the higher velocities of underwood loads. If I have to deal with some distance shooting, it's nice knowing there will still be plenty of energy around to hit the target. The bullet doesn't expand as nicely...it's a trade off.

ATLDave
February 12, 2013, 09:43 PM
Hornady's manual says their 180 gr .40/10mm are good to 1450fps. Only 1300 for the 155 grains, through.

Torian
February 12, 2013, 10:36 PM
Yep, my carry load is the 180 grain at 1300 FPS for the 10mm.

Xfire68
February 12, 2013, 11:51 PM
I have been loading up Nosler bullets in 135,180 and 200g. I have not tested them for expansion but, they are super accurate and a bargain for JHP's!

I have a number of loading's with Power Pistol, Blue Dot, Unique and about to try some 800x. The 135g with a nice amount of Power Pistol lights up the range!:evil:

2zulu1
February 13, 2013, 02:22 AM
I like the Nosler bullets, decent performance at an excellent price for JHPs that work.

Power Pistol lights up the darkness, 1911 45 auto 230gr Golden Saber @975fps;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/45acp230grGoldenSaber74grPowerPisto.jpg

Contrast that with a G20 IMR 800X, 175gr Silvertip @1400fps;

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/10mm175grSilvertip10gr800X6.jpg

The major reason I drop 180s to the mid 1200s from 1300fps is because of unreliable bullet performance at 1300fps. Going back over my notes from several years ago, a 180gr Gold Dot @1300fps impact velocity had a recovered core weight of 118.7grs, located fragments weighed 29.2grs and 32.1grs were not accounted for. A 180gr XTP at the same velocity was marginally better with a recovered weight of 144.7grs.

A 155gr XTP @1570fps had a recovered weight of 117grs while a 175gr Silvertip @1300fps weighed 150.1grs and expanded to 0.726".

By comparison, a 230gr Gold Dot in 45auto @984fps expanded to 0.735" and weighed 230.9grs. I did an 80 yard shot with the 1911 and had a recovered weight of 228.7grs.

The reason I bring up the 45 auto, 230gr Gold Dot @984fps is because it outperforms a 10mm/180gr fragmented bullet. While many people will look at 10mm energy numbers and think 'more power' means better terminal performance, this is not true. The momentum of the 45/230/984fps is heads up with the 10/180/1300fps, when the 180s fragment they lose momentum and therefore lose penetration. Drop 180 velocity a little and the bullet will increase penetration.

powder
February 13, 2013, 02:43 AM
3rd gen Smiths. I have 2 of the 1076s and love the tanks. 9 + 1 single stack, get the palm swell grips if you have larger paws...

foxs
February 13, 2013, 08:06 AM
I am going after the Glock 29

PabloJ
February 13, 2013, 08:58 AM
3rd gen Smiths. I have 2 of the 1076s and love the tanks. 9 + 1 single stack, get the palm swell grips if you have larger paws...
Looked over used 1076 few weeks ago. The asking price was $599 but I could not justify >$400 for it. It has not been made in years and soon parts and magazines will be made of UNobtainium. Bought Gen 4 Glock 20 and am very satisfied with the purchase.

Xfire68
February 13, 2013, 02:41 PM
2zulu1, what media are you using to test these bullets?

2zulu1
February 14, 2013, 03:32 AM
2zulu1, what media are you using to test these bullets?
Here's a link to bullet tests that push their design/construction limits a bit. :)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7484901#post7484901

Now that temps are warming up a bit, I should do more tests. I have a good inventory of 40 cal bullets to test in 10mm in all the popular weights; Sierra, Nosler, Remington, Winchester, Speer and Hornady. The goal will be to find each bullet's sweet spot fired from a 6" barrel. I'm expecting delivery of a custom 1911 long slide by summer and will be doing load development using a G20 with 6" KKM barrel.

I also need to head out to the range and get more bones as my current supply is dwindling.

Demitrios
February 14, 2013, 04:07 AM
HarryGunner, that EDC you've got there is one sexy pistol. Where'd you get it?

Xfire68
February 14, 2013, 04:09 AM
Now that temps are warming up a bit, I should do more tests.

Dude you don't have to rub it in! LOL Spring is not kicking down the door around here yet!

XTP's have always been a favorite of mine but, I have gotten attached to Nosler's lately do to cost alone. I have yet to test the expansion on these JHP's but, from what I have seen it's a solid choice if fps is not to high. From what you have posted in your tests it seems as tho most of these JHP's have a "Speed Limit".

BrainOnSigs
February 14, 2013, 04:47 AM
A good friend and myself occasionally shoot various types of ammo in a manner that allows us to recover the bullets for examination. We have shot thru wood, glass, cardboard, water jugs, and water soaked products. This was our 2nd trip with 10mm included. We were firing into water soaked reams of copier paper that were held tightly together with duct tape. Two reams stood up back to back stopped all hollow point ammo in the 2nd ream, except the .45 ammo...it was recovered in the 1st ream. The reams are very hard on bullets and certainly not meant to be compared to tests using ballistic gel. Very un-scientific testing but enough info is gathered to form some educated conclusions....more importantly it is a lot of fun.

The 9mm was shot thru a G19, the .40 thru a S&W M+P, the 10mm thru a G20SF, and the .45 ACP thru a Les Baer 1911.

A note in regards to the 10mm ammo: all the bullets recovered exhibited failure/fragmentation.

9mm 147 gr Federal LE Tactical HST: Recovered weight = 147 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.727" (This is an anomaly due to a single lead petal that stretch out in an irregular manner). (No fragmentation at all).

9mm 147 gr Speer GD: Recovered weight = 147 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.584" (I believe this expansion to be more normal for a 0.355" bullet). (No fragmentation at all).

.40 S&W 180 gr HST: Recovered weight = 173.9 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.759". (Minimal fragmentation with 6.1gr. not recovered).

.45 ACP 230 gr HST: Recovered weight = 229.6gr. Widest expansion point = 0.837". Extremely minimal fragmentation with 0.4 gr not recovered. (This bullet's expansion was perfect, with beautifully formed petals).

10mm 200 gr Hornady XTP (Underwood): Recovered weight = 178.2 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.665". (This is the only 10mm that was fired that didn't exhibit massive fragmentation/bullet failure).

10mm 180 gr Hornady XTP (Underwood): Recovered weight = 160.0 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.658".

10mm 180 gr Speer GD (Underwood): Recovered weight = 107.4 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.638". (Complete bullet failure).

10mm 180 gr Montana Gold (Buffalo Bore): Recovered weight = 119.9 gr. Widest expansion = 0.561" (Complete bullet failure with 10 fragments founded, but note that this ammo penetrated the deepest of all 10mm ammo fired).

10mm 165 gr Speer GD (Underwood): Recovered weight = 109.7 gr. Widest expansion = 0.619" (Complete bullet failure).

Very casual conclusions:

1) The HST bullet performs incredibly well at standard pressures and normal FPS ranges for all calibers shot. (I will be loading my G19 with some of my 147 gr HST ammo from now on).

2) The 200 gr XTP in 10mm maybe the only bullet (from what we have tested) that is holding up to the "hot" 10mm loads. This is due to not only the excellent bullet construction but this load had the slowest FPS of any of the ammo we used (my guess).

3) Current design .40 caliber bullets being pushed 200-300 fps faster for 10mm loads will cause some sort of bullet failure....in many cases extreme failure. Again...the paper reams are very, very hard on the bullets. (We considered bullet failure when the copper jacket separated from the lead portion of the bullet and caused major fragmentation).

4) We chrono'd the Underwood stuff and it was very consistent plus an average of 50 fps faster than advertised. This usually isn't the case for other 10mm offerings.

Questions:

1) How would a .40 caliber HST bullet hold up in a "hot" 10mm load?

2) Is bullet failure/fragmentation a bad thing if the penetration of the largest recovered piece is deep enough to incapacitate? (Example: The Buffalo Bore bullet left a track of sharp copper shards all the way from the 1st start of expansion all the way to the largest piece of recovered lead. This ammo fragmented the greatest out of what we have tested but penetrated the deepest. This would have been a very ugly wound in living tissue).

A final side note: Underwood 10mm 180 gr FMJ zipped thru 4 reams of paper, 2 water-filled gallon jugs, and into 8" of wet sand. Nice to know if a G20 was a back up in large 4 legged critter country.

OilyPablo
February 14, 2013, 08:56 AM
As a 10mm fan with a G20 and a S&W 1006, I love 10mm threads. I am tired of downloaded commercial 10mm offerings, some are pretty weak - but these are just FMJ (FN) plinking ammo, so I do buy some of the hotter offerings by the smaller companies. So thanks for the info!

Don't have much to add, but has anyone seen tests on Montana Gold 155 gr HP's? I'm sure these were made for .40S&W cartridges, but I got 1000 of them for a song early last year. A friend and I loaded 400 of them up about middle raneg per the book (and 1000 hot 180gr FMJ). Unfortunately I have not measured velocity, but they seem to have all the perceive recoil of Buffalo Bore and Underwood. I'm just wondering what they do at 1500-1600 FPS. :eek:

BrainOnSigs
February 14, 2013, 06:20 PM
Montana Gold sucks...SUCKS...as far as using their .40 caliber offering pushed to full power 10mm loads in regards to the bullet holding together.

That said...complete bullet failure everytime, but this ammo penetrated the deepest of all 10mm ammo fired.

http://brainonsigs.smugmug.com/Other/Things-that-go-BANG/i-S4VhqNn/0/XL/Buffalo%20Bore%20180%20JHP-5-XL.jpg

OilyPablo
February 14, 2013, 06:23 PM
ahahhahahahahaha..............not the first I heard that. Oh well I'm just using them for plinking anyway. THANKS!

Still if an attacker got shot with that at 1600 fps, he might go "ouch".

calaverasslim
February 14, 2013, 06:31 PM
I have a 1076 sitting right in front of me. Folks are trying to buy it, but they ain't offered enuf yet.


;)

ATLDave
February 14, 2013, 06:41 PM
Just a quick note: At least in rifle rounds, Fackler thought fragmentation was a good thing: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6694223

Provided there is adequate penetration, fragmentation generally increases wound volume.

*NOVA*
February 14, 2013, 07:04 PM
I have a Glock 29 SF - added grip extenders to the two mags, tru-glo sights, Lone Wolf extended, ported barrel. Replaced the Slide Release and Slide Locks with aftermarket parts.

Very pleased with this gun - Intended use is open carry, or back up gun for hunting.
Can use the Glock 20 mags. Its kinda nice being able to carry so much firepower in such a compact package.

harrygunner
February 14, 2013, 10:23 PM
'Demitrios' Thanks. Here's its story: http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/the-adventure-of-building-a-10mm-commander/

Xfire68
February 14, 2013, 10:45 PM
Montana Gold sucks

Montana Gold is not and has never been a SD bullet. They (Just ask them) are a target shooting only bullet. Why the JHP? Well many many competitive shooters feel the JHP's are more accurate then FMJ's.

There are a lot of bullets that look like SD bullets but, are not. So be sure to check info on them if that is your intended use.

2zulu1
February 15, 2013, 05:33 PM
A good friend and myself occasionally shoot various types of ammo in a manner that allows us to recover the bullets for examination. We have shot thru wood, glass, cardboard, water jugs, and water soaked products. This was our 2nd trip with 10mm included. We were firing into water soaked reams of copier paper that were held tightly together with duct tape. Two reams stood up back to back stopped all hollow point ammo in the 2nd ream, except the .45 ammo...it was recovered in the 1st ream. The reams are very hard on bullets and certainly not meant to be compared to tests using ballistic gel. Very un-scientific testing but enough info is gathered to form some educated conclusions....more importantly it is a lot of fun.

The 9mm was shot thru a G19, the .40 thru a S&W M+P, the 10mm thru a G20SF, and the .45 ACP thru a Les Baer 1911.

A note in regards to the 10mm ammo: all the bullets recovered exhibited failure/fragmentation.

9mm 147 gr Federal LE Tactical HST: Recovered weight = 147 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.727" (This is an anomaly due to a single lead petal that stretch out in an irregular manner). (No fragmentation at all).

9mm 147 gr Speer GD: Recovered weight = 147 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.584" (I believe this expansion to be more normal for a 0.355" bullet). (No fragmentation at all).

.40 S&W 180 gr HST: Recovered weight = 173.9 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.759". (Minimal fragmentation with 6.1gr. not recovered).

.45 ACP 230 gr HST: Recovered weight = 229.6gr. Widest expansion point = 0.837". Extremely minimal fragmentation with 0.4 gr not recovered. (This bullet's expansion was perfect, with beautifully formed petals).

10mm 200 gr Hornady XTP (Underwood): Recovered weight = 178.2 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.665". (This is the only 10mm that was fired that didn't exhibit massive fragmentation/bullet failure).

10mm 180 gr Hornady XTP (Underwood): Recovered weight = 160.0 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.658".

10mm 180 gr Speer GD (Underwood): Recovered weight = 107.4 gr. Widest expansion point = 0.638". (Complete bullet failure).

10mm 180 gr Montana Gold (Buffalo Bore): Recovered weight = 119.9 gr. Widest expansion = 0.561" (Complete bullet failure with 10 fragments founded, but note that this ammo penetrated the deepest of all 10mm ammo fired).

10mm 165 gr Speer GD (Underwood): Recovered weight = 109.7 gr. Widest expansion = 0.619" (Complete bullet failure).

Very casual conclusions:

1) The HST bullet performs incredibly well at standard pressures and normal FPS ranges for all calibers shot. (I will be loading my G19 with some of my 147 gr HST ammo from now on).

2) The 200 gr XTP in 10mm maybe the only bullet (from what we have tested) that is holding up to the "hot" 10mm loads. This is due to not only the excellent bullet construction but this load had the slowest FPS of any of the ammo we used (my guess).

3) Current design .40 caliber bullets being pushed 200-300 fps faster for 10mm loads will cause some sort of bullet failure....in many cases extreme failure. Again...the paper reams are very, very hard on the bullets. (We considered bullet failure when the copper jacket separated from the lead portion of the bullet and caused major fragmentation).

4) We chrono'd the Underwood stuff and it was very consistent plus an average of 50 fps faster than advertised. This usually isn't the case for other 10mm offerings.

Questions:

1) How would a .40 caliber HST bullet hold up in a "hot" 10mm load?

2) Is bullet failure/fragmentation a bad thing if the penetration of the largest recovered piece is deep enough to incapacitate? (Example: The Buffalo Bore bullet left a track of sharp copper shards all the way from the 1st start of expansion all the way to the largest piece of recovered lead. This ammo fragmented the greatest out of what we have tested but penetrated the deepest. This would have been a very ugly wound in living tissue).

A final side note: Underwood 10mm 180 gr FMJ zipped thru 4 reams of paper, 2 water-filled gallon jugs, and into 8" of wet sand. Nice to know if a G20 was a back up in large 4 legged critter country.
Testing bullets is tedious and very time consuming, thank you for sharing your results. Never thought of using copy paper. :)

BrainOnSigs
February 15, 2013, 07:44 PM
Testing bullets is tedious and very time consuming, thank you for sharing your results. Never thought of using copy paper. :)

In a pinch 2 reams of copier paper duct taped together would make for a poor man's body armor. :D

Dryft
February 15, 2013, 07:54 PM
Hey folks,

How do you guys feel about Precision Delta's ammunition offerings?

D.

Torian
February 15, 2013, 11:18 PM
Were the tested gold dots of the bonded variety?

Xfire68
February 16, 2013, 01:02 AM
Hey folks,

How do you guys feel about Precision Delta's ammunition offerings?


It's in the same category as Montana Gold. It's target ammo.

I have loaded and number of 124g JHP's from Precision Delta and they are accurate but, not meant as a SD bullet.

Yes anything can be used as a SD bullet but, intended purpose is key IMO.

A good target/hunting/SD for the cost is Nosler Sporting JHP's. They seem to hold good weight and expand well.

powder
February 20, 2013, 03:46 PM
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/SMITH%20%26%20WESSON/NUMBERED%20SERIES/cID1/mID58/dID261

Complete spring kits for the 10xx and 45xx series of S&W 3rd gen. pistols through Wolff. If THIS is an indicator of parts going AWAY!? HaHa!! :p

Jessie James 58
February 20, 2013, 09:15 PM
I have a 1006 and 2 EAA Witness pistols in 10mm. I can say that I love all of them. I have shot over 1000 rounds in both of the EAA pistols and they still look and work like new. The one thing I did was to install a 20# Wolf spring in each of them. That was to slow down the slide and so I did not have to look 30 to 40 feet from the firing line to find my brass. They are tack drivers.

Panzercat
February 21, 2013, 12:41 AM
Here's an ARMSCOR 10mm (1911 frame) in stock if anybody is seriously looking into one (http://www.slickguns.com/product/armscor-ri-tact-10mm-8rd-5-bl-vz-arm51918fc-561). Don't know much about em, but it looks interesting.

Dryft
February 21, 2013, 10:51 AM
Panzercat - I have the RIA 10mm and it is fantastic. Shoots very well, the construction is very good, and I like that it has a bull barrel instead of dealing with the bushing.

The trigger is not particularly spectacular, but that's an easy fix! Really nice to have the LPA rear sight as well, and RIA uses Novak cuts, so if you want to swap anything out it's easy.

Shot side-by-side with a 1911 in .45, you can definitely feel the difference. I hesitate to say I like the 10mm a little better... :)

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