Where has all the ammo gone ?


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Jim, West PA
February 7, 2013, 02:03 PM
What exactly are they preparing for ?

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-21-6-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

It also amazes me that SA rifles in our hands are "assult weapons" and in thier hands...“Personal Defense Weapons.”.
The amount of beaurocratic hypocrisy that is continualy rammed down our throats is disgusting.

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mbt2001
February 7, 2013, 02:19 PM
The DHS is buying M4's...

As far as where the ammo is going / had gone. There are a lot of Fudd's and normal people that took a look at the board and decided that they wanted a gun and ammo. When you have millions of people wake up, there are shortages. That is what happened. My father-in-law has a .410 and and a 12gauge that he inherited. He had maybe a box of ammo as of 2 years ago. He just went ( 2 to 3 weeks ago) out and bought several hundred rounds. People like him and new gun owners, for the most part, are what caused the crunch and I am fine with that.

"They" want to make it LOOK like the "gun-nuts" are buying the guns and ammo. Quite honestly, that isn't what happened. There are a lot of people that got scared, especially since there is so much concern over the economy and other things.

ol' scratch
February 7, 2013, 02:32 PM
Oh when will they ever learn? Oh when will they....ever learn.

Russ Jackson
February 7, 2013, 02:35 PM
Quote from article:

To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month. Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.

Phatty
February 7, 2013, 02:44 PM
The DHS is buying M4's...

As far as where the ammo is going / had gone. There are a lot of Fudd's and normal people that took a look at the board and decided that they wanted a gun and ammo. When you have millions of people wake up, there are shortages. That is what happened. My father-in-law has a .410 and and a 12gauge that he inherited. He had maybe a box of ammo as of 2 years ago. He just went ( 2 to 3 weeks ago) out and bought several hundred rounds. People like him and new gun owners, for the most part, are what caused the crunch and I am fine with that.

"They" want to make it LOOK like the "gun-nuts" are buying the guns and ammo. Quite honestly, that isn't what happened. There are a lot of people that got scared, especially since there is so much concern over the economy and other things.
I agree. I think the ammo shortage is not (solely) a result of hoarding, but a simple consequence of more people buying guns. Most, if not all, people that buy a new gun buy ammo along with it. If you have a sudden surge of new gun buyers, that will overwhelm the ammo market and create a shortage.

SilentStalker
February 7, 2013, 02:56 PM
Eh, not that I am saying this is a bad report because I do not know for sure but this is infowars. They are not well known for validity.

ZVP
February 7, 2013, 02:58 PM
My Buddy sent me the Sportsmans Guide site and I looked up my needed ammo and BINGO!
"out of supply untill April" was all over the page!
Ok here it is Feb and they are gonna need 2 more months to recover and re-stock the shelves? That;s crazy!
Don'tyou think Obama gets a kickback from the manufacturers??? Wouldn't that be a Hoot?
Anyhow, I am stuck shooting Black Powdr and Airguns till the shortage subsudes! Not that I mind as these are my passions too. I just hate being forced to shoot certain guns and not others.
Heck I haven't even looked into RimFires yet. I bet tey are limited also.
Last Post-Election panic took nearly 6months to subside and for the shelves to get restocked, took nearly a year! It was stable for a couple years and look at it NOW!
BPDaave

Certaindeaf
February 7, 2013, 03:05 PM
Financial speculators/private resellers bought/are buying it all.

19-3Ben
February 7, 2013, 03:11 PM
Gone to hoarders everyone.
Oh when will they ever learn? Oh when will they....ever learn.

I just got a great laugh out of that. I too had thought of Peter Paul and Mary when I read the title.

As for where it actually is, it has made it into the hands of the end-users. Basically, a huge and sudden demand wiped out the supply chain more quickly than it could be refilled. It's like when everyone in the dormatory takes a shower at once before the big dance, so the water pressure is lousy. Just too much demand right now for ammo makers to keep up. I'm sure they'll catch up pretty quickly once the demand dies down. We just need to refill the proverbial pipeline.

mbt2001
February 7, 2013, 03:11 PM
Financial speculators/private resellers bought/are buying it all.

Conspiracy Theories...

Johnny Carson made a joke about toilet paper shortage. People went out and bought toilet paper, in fear of a shortage, and guess what, THERE WAS A SHORTAGE.

There are 400,000,000 people in this county. If 10% of the population went out and bought new guns and ammo that is 40,000,000 people. If they each bought 4 boxes that is 160,000,000 boxes for a combined 8,000,000,000 rounds, supposing each box was a box of 50. This is not even bringing in the estimated 90,000,000 gun owners that might or might not have also bought rounds. It could have even been more people. The point is that it is easily concievable that this "shortage" is just Fred and Joe * 10-50,000,000 buying a few boxes

That is a shortage and is basically what happened.

Certaindeaf
February 7, 2013, 03:12 PM
Quote from article:

To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month. Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.
Where did you get that information? I just looked and it's not there but for months there was a sticky above explaining essentially that they had the option to buy 450m over x years at x price. They did not buy 450m rounds. perhaps take note and not spread dreck

Certaindeaf
February 7, 2013, 03:14 PM
Conspiracy Theories....
Check all the classifieds everywhere etc. Joe has them... for a price.

mbt2001
February 7, 2013, 03:23 PM
It is important to remember that the DHS has:

Secrete Service
Immigration and Customs Enforcement
Immigration and Naturalization Service
Customs and Border Protection
The Coast Guard
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center
Federal Protective Service
TSA and Air Marshal Program
And a few other agencies like the Nuclear Incident Response Team

Many of these agencies have significant amounts of armed personnel. FLETC itself sees 60,000+ people per year in training.

The total population of the agency is 240,000 people. I will use that number, since as I said FLETC sees a lot of people and the coast guard has virutally everyone go through arms training. So

Even 1 billion rounds (much larger than the purchase) / 240,000 = approx. 4,100 rounds per person.

As you know, if we went to ThunderRanch for a weekend course we would need to bring 1,000 - 5,000 rnds of ammo.

mbt2001
February 7, 2013, 03:26 PM
Check all the classifieds everywhere etc. Joe has them... for a price.

*** is your point? You LOVE capitalism, but hate capitalists?

Captains1911
February 7, 2013, 03:28 PM
What exactly are they preparing for ?

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-21-6-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

It also amazes me that SA rifles in our hands are "assult weapons" and in thier hands...“Personal Defense Weapons.”.
The amount of beaurocratic hypocrisy that is continualy rammed down our throats is disgusting.

Actually, they are calling fully automatic weapons "personal defense weapons"....

Certaindeaf
February 7, 2013, 03:31 PM
*** is your point? You LOVE capitalism, but hate capitalists?
Of course not. A simple question was posited and I explained the mechanics, o conspirator.

Wolfebyte
February 7, 2013, 03:52 PM
The Fed Bid sheet is here: https://marketplace.fedbid.com/fbweb/fbobuyDetails.do?token===wBKxmaVGYR9Kcq5Ajq%2BRH6QAAAAAHeAAgAgTFCGg/FzzqQbJAAyVXBA0Or

at the bottom of it is a large .pdf file that shows the shipping/buying info.. Gonna get loud in Artesia, NM...

Jim, West PA
February 7, 2013, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim, West PA
What exactly are they preparing for ?

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchase...of-ammunition/

It also amazes me that SA rifles in our hands are "assult weapons" and in thier hands...“Personal Defense Weapons.”.
The amount of beaurocratic hypocrisy that is continualy rammed down our throats is disgusting.

Actually, they are calling fully automatic weapons "personal defense weapons"....

Thanx Captains1911. I miss read that.

Jenrick
February 7, 2013, 04:30 PM
Shoot the Federal Air Marshals service used to (my data is old, I don't know anyone in training there anymore) shoot close to a million rounds a class. That was for about 40 people. Think about how much ammo you shoot at a given range session of a couple of hours. Now think about shooting 8-12 hours per DAY multiple days per week, for several months. When it's your job to be the best, you can run through a lot of ammo.

Friend of mine taught at Mid-South, and military units would show up with a Conex (18 wheeler trailer basically) of ammo. They expected to shoot it all in a week with 12 guys. When you're really out shooting and training hard everyday, you burn through an immense amount of ammunition.

-Jenrick

whipper
February 7, 2013, 05:20 PM
DHS is buying them all up so they don't have any competition for civil unrest.

They are afraid they might lose.

JayBird
February 7, 2013, 05:20 PM
You guys are talking about 21 million rounds?

Come on, last year they bought over 1.6 Billion rounds.

This is nothing to their stockpile.

And since DHS has no mandate to operate outside US borders(they are not the US Army), than one can easily surmise those bullets are for use inside US borders. Now whether they 'plan' to use them on US Citizens is not yet known.

Deny it all you guys want, but DHS is NOT the army, and a stockpile of ammo that size should be eye opening.

Texasrpbrock
February 7, 2013, 06:03 PM
Won't matter how many bullets DHS buys.... They will need mags for them. And as of today, PMAGs are in stock at CTD for... Get this, you ready!
$99.00 for a thirty round PMAG!

If the value of PMAGs keeps going up when it's time to pay the tax man, I'll just send a couple of PMAGs to the IRS for payment.:)

InkEd
February 7, 2013, 06:18 PM
They are afraid that local law enforcement will not support (and therefore not do anything about violations of) some of the draconian laws that are going to be inflicted on the civilian population. DHS is gearing up for possible encounters of civil unrest.

They are NOT the military! They do not engage in combat!

Where there is smoke, there is fire. People need to quit being so trusting of the government.

G21NE
February 7, 2013, 06:49 PM
Please note that order is for 100,000 rounds of each caliber-(and 40,000 rounds of the 9mm fmj) someone's math is off, probably due to the wearing of a tin foil hat.....

Strange Bob
February 7, 2013, 09:56 PM
Please note that order is for 100,000 rounds of each caliber-(and 40,000 rounds of the 9mm fmj) someone's math is off, probably due to the wearing of a tin foil hat.....
Much higher numbers is what I've found with a simple Google search.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/09/why_does_homeland_security_need_14_billion_rounds_of_ammunition.html

Plenty of other sites bantering around numbers from 700 million rounds to this 1.4 billion. Where do you get your figures from?

AethelstanAegen
February 7, 2013, 10:46 PM
mbt2001 and Jenrick have the answer for you guys. A ton of ammo is burned in training. Everyone need to calm down. As a federal department covering the training for a plethora of agencies they are going to have high ammo needs to keep those training programs running. Everyone put away your tin foil hat.

oneounceload
February 7, 2013, 11:11 PM
Please note that order is for 100,000 rounds of each caliber-(and 40,000 rounds of the 9mm fmj) someone's math is off, probably due to the wearing of a tin foil hat.
really?

An approximation of how many rounds of ammunition the DHS has now secured over the last 10 months stands at around 1.625 billion. In March 2012, ATK announced that they had agreed to provide the DHS with a maximum of 450 million bullets over four years, a story that prompted questions about why the feds were buying ammunition in such large quantities. In September last year, the federal agency purchased a further 200 million bullets.

To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month. Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.

30 years of war against????? only one group - us pesky conservative "extremists"

The federal agency’s primary concern is now centered around thwarting “homegrown terrorism,” but information produced and used by the DHS to train its personnel routinely equates conservative political ideology with domestic extremism.

A study funded by the Department of Homeland Security that was leaked last year characterizes Americans who are “suspicious of centralized federal authority,” and “reverent of individual liberty” as “extreme right-wing” terrorists.

The Teacher
February 8, 2013, 12:14 AM
Please note that order is for 100,000 rounds of each caliber-(and 40,000 rounds of the 9mm fmj) someone's math is off, probably due to the wearing of a tin foil hat.....
G21NE is correct. Everybody is mis-reading the bid solicitation. It requests pricing per 1000rds in quantities of 100 115gr 9mm, 100 165gr .40S&W, and 40 124gr 9mm, totaling 240,000 rounds. Go back over the past year and look at the other bid solicitations and they say the same thing. This brings them to a grand total of 1.6 MILLION not BILLION rounds in the last 12 months. Barely enough for one full New York magazine for all 240,000 of their employees. The larger totals included in each line of the bid are simply that...totals.

Scare tactics and sensationalism to bring in viewers and readers, and bring in revenue.

G21NE
February 8, 2013, 12:32 AM
G21NE is correct. Everybody is mis-reading the bid solicitation. It requests pricing per 1000rds in quantities of 100 115gr 9mm, 100 165gr .40S&W, and 40 124gr 9mm, totaling 240,000 rounds. Go back over the past year and look at the other bid solicitations and they say the same thing. This brings them to a grand total of 1.6 MILLION not BILLION rounds in the last 12 months. Barely enough for one full New York magazine for all 240,000 of their employees. The larger totals included in each line of the bid are simply that...totals.

Scare tactics and sensationalism to bring in viewers and readers, and bring in revenue.
Yeah, I was referring to just this order, didn't know about the previous ones. Just takes a little reading....

With the major ammo shortage going on now, people are just jumping to conclusions and panicing. Please don't be like the antis and panic.

Just a little irresponsible of the author of the article....

here's a link to the document, check for yourself: https://marketplace.fedbid.com/fbweb/fbobuyDetails.do?token===wBKxmaVGYR9Kcq5Ajq%2BRH6QAAAAAHeAAgAgTFCGg/FzzqQbJAAyVXBA0Or

AethelstanAegen
February 8, 2013, 12:44 AM
30 years of war against????? only one group - us pesky conservative "extremists"

Calm down, dude. That's not the case. DHS is not planning a 30 year war against you. They are buying rounds for training programs which is entirely normal. Contrary to what you might think, most federal employees are not jack-booted thugs itching for the chance to start a civil war. They are average Americans also interested in preserving (and typically sworn to protect) the constitution. Everyone needs to take a serious deep breath and chill out a bit.

GLOOB
February 8, 2013, 07:25 AM
Securing is not the same thing as buying.

Example from my industry, electronics. I'm working on a project and need to source parts. I request a number of components from a company at my target price. They accept, decline, or make a comeback offer. If they accept, my quote will be good for a specified time frame. It may be as long as two years or even more.

This does not mean I bought the parts. In the meantime, I will secure quotes for the rest of the components I need for the project, as well as quotes for the pcb manufacture. I will not purchase until I have secured everything I need to complete the project. And if my client backs out in the meantime, no sweat. I haven't actually purchased anything. If the project goes through, I still don't necessarily buy all the parts at once. I may have secured a large number of parts in anticipation of future demand for the finished product. If it's a flop, only part of that quote may ever get filled.

Imagine if Apple had to actually purchase a million of every single iPhone component upfront, before even bringing the iPhone to market. No, they get quotes up front so they know what that cost will be if and when, and that they won't get screwed when there's no prearranged price and/or supply, and their whole business depends on certain critical parts. The one company making X could up their price, arbitrarily.

Gone to hoarders everyone.
Oh when will they ever learn? Oh when will they....ever learn.
Maybe DHS has simply outhoarded the hoarders in anticipation of Obama's second term? Their bid guarantees they get first dibs at the prepanic price. The price of our ammo goes up astronomically, because of the election that everyone saw coming. Added to the fact that the manufacturers have to set aside 450 million rounds a year (or w/e the number is)... just in case DHS decides to buy those rounds.... which further reduces the current supply until the manufacturers build up a big enough reserve of inventory and/or ramp up production sufficiently to ensure the DHS contract can be met if acted upon.

If you think about it, the more overpriced ammo you buy right now, the better the deal DHS has made for itself. You're increasing the value of their options. So if you're all up in arms about DHS "buying" all this ammo, then your best path is to wait it out and shoot less!

USAF_Vet
February 8, 2013, 10:08 AM
Stopped in my LGS yesterday, they had 100 round packs of Remington golden .22, bleh, for $6.99. They also had 124gr 9mm Remington golden sabers on sale, $26.99.

They had gotten in about 1000 rounds of 5.56 which sold out 5 minutes after hitting the counter. They didn't even bother putting it on the shelf. I showed up a couple hours late to get any.

Only 500 round .22 bulk packs they had was match grade for $97.

They did have some 6.5 Jap on the shelf. I might go back and buy a box.

TwoEyedJack
February 8, 2013, 12:56 PM
Obama wants a large force not bound by the posse comitatus act. This is not going to end well.

Kansan
February 8, 2013, 01:58 PM
A ton of ammo is burned in training. Everyone need to calm down. As a federal department covering the training for a plethora of agencies they are going to have high ammo needs to keep those training programs running. Everyone put away your tin foil hat.

Most of the purchase was JHP, which does not sound like training ammo to me

The Teacher
February 8, 2013, 02:11 PM
Most of the purchase was JHP, which does not sound like training ammo to me
Please go back and look at the actual bid solicitation. Here is the link:

https://marketplace.fedbid.com/fbweb/fbobuyDetails.do?token===wBKxmaVGYR9Kcq5Ajq%2BRH6QAAAAAHeAAgAgTFCGg/FzzqQbJAAyVXBA0Or

It is 240,000 of training ammo. It even says commercial leaded training ammo on the solicitation, and is being shipped to their training facility. Take off the tinfoil!

texasgun
February 8, 2013, 02:28 PM
i think if the government would really be planning on waging a 30yr war against its own citizens.... JHP 9mm rounds will be your least problem .... just think what a few hundred drones in the sky would do....

seriously... let's all put the tinfoil hats away. they purchased TRAINING ammo and divided by the various groups/headcount it's actually not that much....

AethelstanAegen
February 8, 2013, 02:46 PM
Most of the purchase was JHP, which does not sound like training ammo to me

Even if it was the JHP ammo, many agencies like to do extensive training shooting with the ammo they will actually be carrying.

Obama wants a large force not bound by the posse comitatus act. This is not going to end well.

Give me a break. I don't know why everyone thinks DHS is going to become some personal army to the president that would act without questioning orders. This has all started to get rather ridiculous guys. If we can't be sensible here it really puts us gun owners in a very bad light. It certainly doesn't help our case against current proposed legislation if everyone's ready to declare a revolution over tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories.

Larry Ashcraft
February 8, 2013, 02:57 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=701798

Conspiracy much?

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