How much does grip stippling help?


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Skribs
February 7, 2013, 05:33 PM
I've owned a few handguns, including XDm (full grip and compact), M&P compact, and LCP. I've never had any problems holding on to these, but it seems custom stippling on the grip (and sometimes in weird places, like above the trigger guard) is pretty popular. I'm wondering what actual benefit the stippling provides.

From my perspective (please don't flame me for it) making it rougher would only decrease comfort, especially while carrying, and I find simple textures are more pleasing to the eyes. Am I missing something here?

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tarosean
February 7, 2013, 05:37 PM
I think people stipple them for two reasons. Customization, it's not like you can change grips like most guns. and a lot of people shoot with gloves and it helps grip them better.

ku4hx
February 7, 2013, 06:00 PM
I think it's a bit like additional chrome on mine and my wife's motorcycles. It's a mod we both wanted to do that added little utility in most cases. Sure, some chromed parts will resist corrosion more than when they were painted, but it looks good and we like it. It adds a certain personalized flair. I think certain cosmetic-like mods on a gun are very similar.

Some stippling is utilitarian true, but some just adds that additional "look" and "feel". Similar to engraving the metal on a fine shotgun. Doesn't shoot a bit better with the engraving, but some sure looks good.

Sam Cade
February 7, 2013, 06:20 PM
I'm wondering what actual benefit the stippling provides.


It allows you to increase the amount of traction that your hand gets on the weapon. More aggressive textures allow your weapon to remain under control during a partially flubbed drawstroke,less than optimal initial grip or if your grip is compromised by wearing gloves or environmental factors like mud, sweat,rain or heaven forbid it blood.






From my perspective (please don't flame me for it) making it rougher would only decrease comfort, especially while carrying, and I find simple textures are more pleasing to the eyes. Am I missing something here?

Comfort and aesthetics have little value in a defensive weapon. Shootability trumps all.


and sometimes in weird places, like above the trigger guard

Tactile index point for keeping your trigger-finger out of the trigger guard.

Skribs
February 7, 2013, 06:49 PM
Tactile index point for keeping your trigger-finger out of the trigger guard.

Makes sense.

I haven't shot in these conditions, so I guess I wouldn't know if I would need it. I don't sweat much, and I think my gloves would only increase traction, but I can see how the others might cause issues.

My aesthetics comment was regarding if there isn't much change for me, then I'd rather have it look good. Comfort is important, because if it is uncomfortable to hold I'd handle it less and uncomfortable to carry I might opt for something else.

Rembrandt
February 7, 2013, 07:30 PM
Of all the grip enhancement styles, stippling is probably the most aggressive. Checkering, depending on the lines per inch, can be either aggressive or tame.

No other handgun is as difficult for the human hand to grip as the massive Desert Eagle. Large magazine well and powerful loads can force the shooter to readjust after each shot. After experiencing this I had the front strap checkered....wow! made all the difference. Contrary to what most may think, it is not abrasive to the hand or painful.

On the other hand a S&W model 41 has milled grooves that does nothing other than add cosmetic appeal.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/de6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/m41-02.jpg

AK103K
February 7, 2013, 09:34 PM
Ive stippled a bunch of my Glocks now, and have a couple more waiting in the wings. Other than the RTF2's, the difference between those not stippled and those that are, is like night and day. You get a good grip on the stippled guns, that doesnt slip when your hands are wet/sweaty. Wet or dry, the gun doesnt move at all in your hands while shooting.

As far as comfort, I suppose that depends on the individuals. I work with my hands, and they are pretty calloused, and for me, the stippling makes the grip feel like a cats tongue. My sons girl friend has shot a couple I did, and found them to be to aggressive for her. They do work well removing any dead skin on your hands. :)

I normally carry a RTF 17, but have also carried guns Ive stippled, both IWB and in an ankle holster, and had no problems with comfort or wear on my clothes.

DMK
February 7, 2013, 11:12 PM
On the other hand a S&W model 41 has milled grooves that does nothing other than add cosmetic appeal. I have a CZ-40B that has the same type of vertical grooves on the grip. I guess the theory was to allow an air space so sweat wouldn't let the gun slip (like rain grooves on car tire), but it actually makes it very uncomfortable. I put non-skid stair tape over it and it was a huge improvement.

TimboKhan
February 8, 2013, 12:24 AM
I stippled my xd, and while I didnt go hog wild with it, it did improve the purchase on the fun quite a bit. Some stippling is just for show, but it does make a difference. Super easy to do, kind of fun, but obviously permanent.

Since I stippled conservatively, there is no immediate cost to comfort either in carry or in hand. I was more aggressive on the backstrap, less on the panels, and not at all on the front strap. If I think of it, I will take a picture when I get home tonight.


sent from my Galaxy Note II.

breakingcontact
February 8, 2013, 01:15 AM
It's for when you're swimming in rivers of Krasnovian blood...

or it just looks cool and helps give a little better grip.

Plus, it's a modification that you can actually do yourself.

9mmepiphany
February 8, 2013, 01:38 AM
On the other hand a S&W model 41 has milled grooves that does nothing other than add cosmetic appeal.
Those are usually called vertical serrations...just like on the MSH of a 1911...and are quite good for providing purchase on a gun frame. They work by allowing the flesh of your finger to press into the grooves...which keeps it from twisting in your hand during recoil.

I actually prefer serrations on the front strap compared to checkering. They allow you to adjust your grip, if it wasn't quite right the first time, and yet are very secure when you increase pressure

and sometimes in weird places, like above the trigger guard
Above the trigger guard on the left side is for tactile feedback of correct placement of the support hand thumb; under the trigger guard does the same for the support hand index finger

Skribs
February 8, 2013, 02:17 AM
Or right side for the lefties like me?

9mmepiphany
February 8, 2013, 03:57 AM
That's true ;)

When you send your gun off for someone to do, they usually do both side...one for the support thumb and the other for the trigger finger.

I personally have a piece of skateboard tape on one side for my thumb and and index my trigger finger on the head of the locking block's roll pin

Kiln
February 8, 2013, 05:01 AM
Stippling works to help you grip the weapon but at the same time has a dramatic effect on the resale value of the gun.

If you've got a gun you want to for sure keep forever then by all means, take a hot piece of metal and poke a bunch of small holes in it. Otherwise you're going to be getting a lot less than you dumped into it back in trade.

People don't view stippling as a positive trait on a used gun. It is kind of like sporterizing an old WW2 rifle. Sure it may make the gun a little better in performance but it is going to damage the value.

As an alternative you could try buying a slip over grip for it. That way you can just take it off if it doesn't help and sell both the grip and the gun if you can't make it work.

AK103K
February 8, 2013, 09:30 AM
Stippling works to help you grip the weapon but at the same time has a dramatic effect on the resale value of the gun.
Depending on how it was done, and the person looking at it, it may lessen it, or it may increase it.

Ive seen a couple now at a local shop that were done, that sold for slightly more than "new", something you usually dont see in a common used gun. They also werent there very long either.

People don't view stippling as a positive trait on a used gun.
I have yet to have anyone who has held and/or shot one of mine, not have a positive view of it. Looking at pictures is one thing, use is something completely different.

Kiln
February 8, 2013, 04:05 PM
Depending on how it was done, and the person looking at it, it may lessen it, or it may increase it.

Ive seen a couple now at a local shop that were done, that sold for slightly more than "new", something you usually dont see in a common used gun. They also werent there very long either.


I have yet to have anyone who has held and/or shot one of mine, not have a positive view of it. Looking at pictures is one thing, use is something completely different.
Whatever you'd like to think but I've seen two stippled firearms for sale in shops and they were marked well below market price because of it.

You can try and make an argument for effectiveness but I've yet to see a shop selling a stippled gun for more than it was new.

I'd also like to mention that some manufacturers will void your warranty for intentionally modifying the frame of the gun by stippling.

AK103K
February 8, 2013, 05:06 PM
Whatever you'd like to think but I've seen two stippled firearms for sale in shops and they were marked well below market price because of it.
It wasnt what I thought, its what I personally saw happen. The guns sold for more than new, and quickly too.

If you dont like it, I suppose you wont bother, no matter the cost. If its something youre looking for, and dont want to do it yourself, then you might well pay a premium, especially if you like how and what was done.

There are more than a couple of shops doing it as a trade now, and they seem to be doing a pretty brisk business. I doubt they are just doing it because they are bored, somebody must want it done.

You can try and make an argument for effectiveness but I've yet to see a shop selling a stippled gun for more than it was new.
Theres no argument as to its effectiveness, its very effective, and even the ugly jobs work.

Personally, if the job was just ugly, and it was priced low because of it, Id gobble it up. Its easy to redo and fix. Their loss, my gain.

I'd also like to mention that some manufacturers will void your warranty for intentionally modifying the frame of the gun by stippling.
They also tell you shooting reloads will do the same.;)

Personally, I couldnt care less. Im getting something I want, that they dont yet seem to want to offer, and it didnt cost me a penny, just a couple of hours in front of the TV.

My understanding, Glock isnt concerned unless what you did caused the failure/warranty issue.

Kiln
February 8, 2013, 05:19 PM
They also tell you shooting reloads will do the same.;)

That's a nice straw man argument.

I think we can agree that it is a little more difficult to prove that somebody was shooting reloaded ammunition than it is to prove that somebody punched hundreds of holes in the frame of a pistol with a hot piece of metal.

When they see that they may refuse to work on it or at the very least charge you to replace whatever they mess with.

AK103K
February 8, 2013, 05:32 PM
If you just come out and say you dont like it, we can stop all this. :)

pseudonymity
February 8, 2013, 06:03 PM
On my Ruger P95 stippling helped a great deal - without it just the mild recoil would shift your hand position if your hands were just the least bit sweaty or dirty. The Hogue handall did help, but with the overgrip I found I could not reach the mag release without switching my grip on the gun. The P95 is kind of notorious for a chunky, slippery grip with a flat backstrap, so other grips may not benefit as much.

HKGuns
February 8, 2013, 06:26 PM
I wouldn't buy one used, so you best be sure you want to keep it before you bugger it up with your soldering iron.

CPshooter
February 8, 2013, 06:33 PM
Thinking about doing some very minor stippling to my Walther P99 frontstrap. Either that, or something like this, which is far less permanent:

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/pps/27463-pps-grip-tape-mod.html

AK103K
February 8, 2013, 07:45 PM
I used tread/skateboard tape on my guns for years, and still do on a couple that I dont have a choice.

The flat sheets of skateboard tape worked the best, but they only work for so long, and its still hard to get the whole grip covered.

The "decal" kits I tried were about useless.

The problem with tape is, its great when new, and if you can get it fitted right, but if you use the gun regularly, it wears down pretty fast, and it tends to peel or wrinkle in areas where there is a radius that isnt "flat". Flat areas are the best bet, but there really arent to many flat areas on most guns.

Stippling on the other hand, allows for full coverage without the fitting issues, and it usually retains its cat tongue feel considerably longer. If you feel its loosing its grippy feel, its easily touched up. Even when feel wears over time, its still usually better than new grip tape.

BYJO4
February 8, 2013, 10:09 PM
I can take it or leave it. As long as the grips on my 1911s give me a secure hold, the only reason to have it is for the looks.

Kiln
February 9, 2013, 05:49 AM
If you just come out and say you dont like it, we can stop all this. :)
I don't like it. Now that we've gotten that out of the way I'll be more blunt than I've already been.

Stippling does not add value to a gun. There's no reason that a gun should sell for more than a new gun because somebody damaged the frame intentionally. There are literally dozens of threads over the web that seem to all agree that stippling, while great if that's your bag, subtracts from the resale value.

Just because somebody is "asking" a premium for an ugly gun that has seen a hot poker doesn't mean that they're actually getting that price for it. I don't see a problem with customization like this but be realistic and know before you do it that the gun will probably sell for less afterwards.

You can set up a poll if you like and I guarantee that while there would be lots of people that like stippling, there won't be many votes that say that stippling will actually add value to the gun.

Skylerbone
February 9, 2013, 06:31 AM
Some designs, like the M&P allow the user to texture the grip insert which is an inexpensive replaceable part without modifying the frame. Mine are done to varying degrees, one with no modification, one with insert and index points and one including the front strap.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=164495&d=1337044856

JTQ
February 9, 2013, 08:27 AM
Kiln wrote,
Stippling does not add value to a gun. There's no reason that a gun should sell for more than a new gun because somebody damaged the frame intentionally.
I think it depends on who's doing the stippling.

Me doing it in my garage with a soldering iron = less value.

Bowie Tactical turning a Glock into a more easily "gripable" frame = more value

http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/signatureglocks.html

AK103K
February 9, 2013, 10:30 AM
Stippling does not add value to a gun.
Regardless of cost, it adds value if you benefit from it being done.

There's no reason that a gun should sell for more than a new gun because somebody damaged the frame intentionally.
I suppose "damage" is subjective in this case. Modified, is really more appropriate. Youre insinuating the gun was damaged, where it really wasnt, it simply had the grips texture changed to suit its user.

Lets cut to the chase here too, its the fact that they can and do sell for more after its done, and that doesnt fit your paradigm, and it annoys you.


Just because somebody is "asking" a premium for an ugly gun that has seen a hot poker doesn't mean that they're actually getting that price for it.
It does when they do.

As I said before, Ive personally seen it, and the guns went for around $75 more than the new Glocks in the case were selling for at the time ($525). Im friends with the owner of the shop that sold them, and that came right from the horses mouth.

Do all stippled guns sell for more, of course not. Do all "modified" guns of any type sell for less than new? Same answer.

I don't see a problem with customization like this but be realistic and know before you do it that the gun will probably sell for less afterwards.
The key word there is "probably". Any change you make to a gun can reduce its value, and it might could increase it. All depends on the buyer.

What you consider a negative, some consider a plus.
Just because you "think" they shouldnt sell for more, doesnt mean a thing.

I sold a 4" S&W Model 29 that I "modified", for about $200 more that I paid for it. A lot of people told me it was "ugly" and I ruined it, and there was no way I would get my money out of it. (I cut off the hammer spur and cut down the trigger, making it DAO, carved the target stocks into something more usable, and parkerized it. It was a "working" gun, and function over rode "looks", although I personally liked the way it looked) I have a feeling, you have said the same. The boy who bought it, wanted it bad, and was willing to pay. There are others out there, looking for something you just cant buy off the shelf, and realize that the modifications are a plus, and not a negative.

Im sensing the differences in opinion here, are between "collectors", who view things as "possible" investments, and "users", who actually use their guns, and want them functional, and dont really care if they make a buck when they sell them or not, if they even sell them at all. Although it is nice on those odd occasions when you do.

I rarely have made money on guns Ive sold, although I always figured I did alright with what I got, considering the use I got out of them while I had them. Now I do have an affinity for guns that tend to end up on ban lists, and have always made out well when they were sold, even with the use that was on them.

This is one of my 17's that was stippled. It gets shot every week, sometimes a couple of times a week. This past December, it passed the 50000 round mark. What would make it worth less money to you, the stippling, or the fact that is had 50000 rounds of fairly warm ammo through it? Oh, wait, never mind, silly question. :)

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0ce34b3127ccefb0aa192c8f500000030O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

WoodchuckAssassin
February 9, 2013, 10:39 AM
This is another one of those "Chevy vs. Ford" questions. Some like it, some don't. Personally, I like a nice rough texture on the backstrap of my semi-autos, but can't stand it on the frontstrap. This is one reason why I didn't really like the Glock Gen. 4's - it just felt like I was holding a rusty pipe.

I DO, however, like the idea of adding texture to right side of the frame, just above the front of the trigger guard. It's where I naturally put my finger after I flip off my safety, so I like a little positive contact when it comes to that. It's all just personally preference.

Bovice
February 9, 2013, 10:44 AM
I've never even swapped grips on any of my guns before, so I'm in the camp that says stippling or other grip mods do nothing for me.

AK103K
February 9, 2013, 10:59 AM
I've never even swapped grips on any of my guns before...
It would be nice to be able to say the same. If I had back all the money I spent on grips and mods over the years, I could have bought a couple more upper end guns.

hardluk1
February 9, 2013, 11:02 AM
I will not mess with a stock grip. Ether change if needed or pull on a piece of innertube for better grip control. I have no interest in buy a guns that had its grip messed with buy the owner. Just takes away from its value for me.

tarosean
February 9, 2013, 11:23 AM
Me doing it in my garage with a soldering iron = less value.

That's mostly what you see show up on the used market.. Most look like a 3yr old did it.
Wont even get into the "custom" krylon camo jobs that people try and sell.

I'd buy one at about the used Hi-Point price break 60-100.00 other than that, I don't think so...

Averageman
February 9, 2013, 12:28 PM
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/011.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/016.jpg

To me it isn't about a value that someone else might find in it, it is about a practical usable weapon. I carry both of these and shoot IDPA with the 17. I recently C.C.ed the 26, 7days a week for 6 weeks straight.
I do find that it helps with a draw and by the 4th hour of shooting, when fatigue sets in it makes things much easier.
Now as a "real world" C.C. pistol I wouldn't have it any other way. I want that bit of "bite" when I begin my draw, it is very helpful to me in a correct index.
And yes that was me at my desk with a soldering iron.
To each his own, but I like mine this way.

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