California: some modest proposals for gun control


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Silent Bob
February 7, 2013, 06:57 PM
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/foghorn/list-of-proposed-california-gun-control-measures-500-round-max-no-grandfathering-no-detachable-mags-mandatory-license/

Dems in California have just announced some modest gun control issues they plan on pursuing. They include:

1. Reporting and registration of ammo purchases, no more than 500 rounds max held by an owner
2. Licensing of gun owners
3. Mandatory liability insurance for gun owners
4. No grandfathering of mags holding more than 10 rounds
5. No bullet buttons. ARs and AKs currently possessing them will be declared assault weapons and made illegal
6. No hollow point and similar "assault" ammo
7. May restrict shotguns to single-shot versions only
8. No more detachable mags, must be fixed to gun, removable only by tool, possible 6 round mag limit

Fun times ahead for Californians.

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sanman513
February 7, 2013, 06:58 PM
:banghead:

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

KTXdm9
February 7, 2013, 07:05 PM
Oh boy. I predict a lot more Californians leaving the state if this crap passes.

Solo
February 7, 2013, 07:05 PM
I am firmly behind these laws, for that is the best way to stab them in the back.

InkEd
February 7, 2013, 07:15 PM
How can you outlaw things already owned by people?

In all seriousness though those laws are ridiculously strict. I guess if I ever want to buy a decent gun in California, I'll have to buy it from a Sureno, Blood, Crip, MS-13 or SWP group.

silicosys4
February 7, 2013, 07:21 PM
Its a shame the people of California have to live with the trial-by-error system of governance which they decided to elect.

Skribs
February 7, 2013, 07:24 PM
How many felons would this bill create overnight?

Grassman
February 7, 2013, 07:25 PM
So are New York and California in a race to have the most ridiculous gun laws? It's time to revolt Californian's, this is insane.

radiotom
February 7, 2013, 07:28 PM
Pretty stupid proposals, but foreseeable for decades. This is who they elect, this is what they get. I feel bad for the people who didn't vote these people in, but it might be time to weigh their options and possibly move out.

c4v3man
February 7, 2013, 07:29 PM
8. No more detachable mags, must be fixed to gun, removable only by tool, possible 6 round mag limit

Guess competitive shooting is about to be illegal in CA. Sell your Olympic biathlon rifle and pick up a non-50bmg 1000 yard rifle, or pick up cowboy action shooting I guess... Oh wait, your pump action Winchester 1897 might be illegal now, so get comfortable competing with a SxS I guess.

And my wife keeps asking me why we can't move to Sacramento...

gspn
February 7, 2013, 07:30 PM
Let me guess...the new rules will be in effect for 5 years, after which all guns must be turned in for Long Bows. Quivers can contain no more than 5 arrows, field tips only (NO BROADHEADS). Bows will phase out in 5 years and be replaced by clubs no longer than 15 inches.

Texan Scott
February 7, 2013, 07:30 PM
So a 550 round brick of HP .22lr would make me guilty of TWO felonies in California?

As a Texan... I can't begin... I don't ... not ... can't even...

What is WRONG with these people? The politicians, the idiots that vote for them, .... why would you live there? HOW does someone live there?

CALIFORNIANS! Cast off your shackles! Rural Texas waits for you! ...
Or Oklahoma. On second thought, give Oklahoma a try. It's ... nice. You'll love it! :neener:

Dmath
February 7, 2013, 07:43 PM
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/foghorn/list-of-proposed-california-gun-control-measures-500-round-max-no-grandfathering-no-detachable-mags-mandatory-license/

Dems in California have just announced some modest gun control issues they plan on pursuing. They include:

1. Reporting and registration of ammo purchases, no more than 500 rounds max held by an owner
2. Licensing of gun owners
3. Mandatory liability insurance for gun owners
4. No grandfathering of mags holding more than 10 rounds
5. No bullet buttons. ARs and AKs currently possessing them will be declared assault weapons and made illegal
6. No hollow point and similar "assault" ammo
7. May restrict shotguns to single-shot versions only
8. No more detachable mags, must be fixed to gun, removable only by tool, possible 6 round mag limit

Fun times ahead for Californians.
What are bullet buttons?

Solo
February 7, 2013, 07:44 PM
A modified magazine release that requires a separate tool, such as a key or the tip of a bullet, to push so that the weapon cannot be quickly reloaded.

rgwalt
February 7, 2013, 07:55 PM
So what's the story with bullet buttons? Weren't they intended to make dropping the magazine more difficult, thereby making a firearm more difficult to use in a shooting spree? Why do the antis want to outlaw them now?

Solo
February 7, 2013, 07:58 PM
Because you can overcome them with a bit of glue and a cylindrical piece of wood.

Zoogster
February 7, 2013, 07:58 PM
What are bullet buttons?

Bullet buttons are what enable Californian's to legally own most (offlist) firearm models that are otherwise prohibited by the Assault Weapon feature list.
For example a pistol grip and a detachable magazine create an assault weapon, meaning most firearm models that have pistol grips would immediately not be legal to sell in CA. Some firearms come with other types of stocks or grips, but some are almost universally pistol griped firearms (although there is a variety of strange CA adaptions to go that route too.)
A bullet button turns a detachable magazine into a legally fixed magazine, no different than a tubular magazine under the law as defined in the State. Requiring a tool to remove.


They didn't intend to create them or make them legal. They are legal because of how the state defined a detachable magazine.
If you think about it most magazines can be detached at some point. You can disassemble a gun remove the magazine and place in a new magazine. But that is not what they were targeting with the meaning of 'detachable magazine'.
Almost all magazines even internal ones are removable at some point of disassembly. Some require more disassembly than others. So people needed an actual legal definition of what was being refered to.
You may think you know what a detachable magazine is, but thats not good enough under the law, you need to actually define what is restricted because some models of some firearms are going to be unclear. If you can unscrew the tubular magazine is that detachable? If someone designs some odd design, or one that make disassembly easier is that detachable.
So they needed to define it. So they did.
They defined it as something requiring a tool.
A tool was defined as just about anything except the body itself.
Hence a bullet button that requires another object to push a recessed button that no finger could possibly touch qualifies as a firearm requiring a tool to remove the magazine.
That meant all those firearms that come standard with things like pistol grips had the CA market open up again, like AR variants. They just had to have such a device installed.

<*(((><
February 7, 2013, 07:58 PM
California law states you cannot have a detachable mag over 10 rounds, so the mag release on an AR15 is a bolt, not a push button. A bullet button replaces the bolt and one cannot use his/her finger to release the mag, it requires a tool. The law was to prevent one from readily detach the mag, creating one more step of having to get a tool out or bullet to push the "bullet button." It was a workaround that the firearm industry came up with. However, now it looks like they are going to prevent that as well.

Skribs
February 7, 2013, 07:58 PM
They want to outlaw bullet buttons so that you cannot use external magazines.

Might actually work out in the favor of a gunman. How many more stripper clips could he fit into a backpack than he could PMAGs?

BHP FAN
February 7, 2013, 08:00 PM
because they don't think right.

splattergun
February 7, 2013, 08:36 PM
I am completely fed up with Kalipornia, and New York, for that matter.
I have already been boycotting Levi Strauss (haven't put on a pair of Levi's in 26 years) and several other Kalipornia companies for their anti-gun support, now I am giving up on the entire state to the extent possible. I just cancelled my vacation to San Diego. Maybe I'll go to a Gulf state instead.

I know that it is not possible to completely avoid business with the Peoples' Republic and the Gothic Empire, but I do have a good measure of discretion where I spend my hard earned dollars and, where ever possible, I will keep mine away from them.

kwguy
February 7, 2013, 08:58 PM
These idiots do not care about logic. It's like Rorshach in the movie the Watchmen. The world is being run by "An abbatoir full of retarded children". These are our politicians. They are putting our whatever stupid nonsense they can. This whole Newtown thing has become a thing of the past for them, and this monstrosity of proposed legislation has taken on a life of it's own. Do not try to apply logic, for it will not work. If you ask "why" or "how does such and such make sense", you have already lost. There IS no logic or sense in what they are trying to do. All we can do is keep trying to influence OUR politicians to not let this craziness take hold...

rgwalt
February 7, 2013, 08:59 PM
Thanks for the info everyone. It isn't the bullet button itself, but the fact that it is used to transform a removable magazine into a fixed magazine. Banning the bullet button effectively closes the detachable magazine loophole.

BK
February 7, 2013, 09:48 PM
CALIFORNIANS! Cast off your shackles! Rural Texas waits for you! ...
Yeah you had better think twice about that one. Texas is getting closer to 50/50 ratio in national polls. Once it turns blue, there will never again be a president with an (R) beside his name.

Evergreen
February 7, 2013, 09:59 PM
Californians never go to Texas, they always come to Oregon, Idaho and Washington. Half the population of Idaho and Oregon now are ex-Californians. Sadly, not always the good ones. I don't like all the Californians, as many of them are liberal refugees. But I detect that many good and freedom loving Californians will be making there way up to Washington and Oregon.

I just want to give you guys a welcome and sorry if I mistake you for one of those other type of California refugees.

Basically, Oregon got all the liberal California refugees and Idaho got all the conservatives. But I detect that many of the Californians coming here will be on the conservative side with the new measures being implemented.

jerkface11
February 7, 2013, 10:10 PM
5. No bullet buttons. ARs and AKs currently possessing them will be declared assault weapons and made illegal
8. No more detachable mags, must be fixed to gun, removable only by tool, possible 6 round mag limit

Seems like number 5 and number 8 contradict each other.

Lennyjoe
February 7, 2013, 10:14 PM
Arizona will take some of them conservatives. The liberals can stay in Cali though....;)

mljdeckard
February 7, 2013, 10:16 PM
I never dare scoff, because in CA I honestly don't know, what are the odds of any of this passing?

firesky101
February 7, 2013, 10:19 PM
I had heard the initial bullet button bill was shot down, so I am not sure how likely something much more restrictive will pass. I would not be surprised if this passed, but more and more CA laws are being challenged in court. Hopefully one day we will have our 2A rights restored.

runner55
February 7, 2013, 10:20 PM
Assault ammo? Apparently the only ammo considered safe is the type that doesn't exit the firearm. Next: Assault toothbrushes!

DAP90
February 7, 2013, 10:20 PM
I never dare scoff, because in CA I honestly don't know, what are the odds of any of this passing?

I believe in California the Democrats currently have a supermajority in both houses. It could pass.

Those proposals are flat out crazy.

tomrkba
February 7, 2013, 10:24 PM
Wow...just...wow!

500 rounds this week, 400 next week, 100 the week after, 10 by next month.

I vaguely recall Californians stupidly registering some "assault" weapons, only to have them made illegal a short time later. If they're dumb enough to register, I have little sympathy.

Mandatory liability insurance for gun owners means gun ownership will be priced out of the reach of the average person and act as a form of registration. This is what NFA 1934 did to machine guns, suppressors and SBR/SBS.

California gun owners know what they need to do to stop this. I doubt they will be effective. It's really a shame.

JRH6856
February 7, 2013, 11:11 PM
CALIFORNIANS! Cast off your shackles! Rural Texas waits for you! ...
Or Oklahoma. On second thought, give Oklahoma a try. It's ... nice. You'll love it! :neener:

Considering how many Okies went to California during the Dustbowl, it would be something of a homecoming. ;)

Voyager
February 7, 2013, 11:18 PM
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/foghorn/list-of-proposed-california-gun-control-measures-500-round-max-no-grandfathering-no-detachable-mags-mandatory-license/

Dems in California have just announced some modest gun control issues they plan on pursuing. They include:

1. Reporting and registration of ammo purchases, no more than 500 rounds max held by an owner
2. Licensing of gun owners
3. Mandatory liability insurance for gun owners
4. No grandfathering of mags holding more than 10 rounds
5. No bullet buttons. ARs and AKs currently possessing them will be declared assault weapons and made illegal
6. No hollow point and similar "assault" ammo
7. May restrict shotguns to single-shot versions only
8. No more detachable mags, must be fixed to gun, removable only by tool, possible 6 round mag limit

Fun times ahead for Californians.
I thought KA was already safely pacified with some of the most ridiculously harsh gun control in all of creation, I guess I was wrong, and so too were those of you who thought you could compromise with those liars. Liars who have no intention of ever compromising on their agenda, which has always been abundantly clear as to what it is, except of course to those of you, who always seek compromise.

Arkansas Paul
February 7, 2013, 11:26 PM
In all seriousness though those laws are ridiculously strict. I guess if I ever want to buy a decent gun in California, I'll have to buy it from a Sureno, Blood, Crip, MS-13 or SWP group.

On the bright side, there wouldn't be any shortage of them.

ApacheCoTodd
February 7, 2013, 11:28 PM
Yeah, they love their disarming or assaulting buzz-words:
Reasonable
Rational
Sane
Modest
Common Sense
Moderate
Progressive
Realistic, etc...

They use these words to show how (pick the word above and insert here) they are and ad an "un" to the front of the same word to attack anyone not agreeing with their very enlightened position.

HankR
February 7, 2013, 11:31 PM
ARs and AKs currently possessing them will be declared assault weapons and made illegal

How can you outlaw things already owned by people?

Well, first you need a list of people that have them. Like, a registration list. Thank Ged all we free Americans have to worry about this time around is closing the gun show loophole. I'm sure that confiscation thing will never happen out here in flyover country </sarcasm>

Silent Bob
February 7, 2013, 11:47 PM
5. No bullet buttons. ARs and AKs currently possessing them will be declared assault weapons and made illegal
8. No more detachable mags, must be fixed to gun, removable only by tool, possible 6 round mag limit

Seems like number 5 and number 8 contradict each other.
Banning "bullet buttons" will take care of the ARs and AKs for California residents.

The "no detachable magazine" proposal to me would seem to apply to all new semi-automatic pistols and whatever semi-auto rifles can still be sold in California, and possibly extend to older ones after the NEXT mass murder.

browneu
February 7, 2013, 11:47 PM
They limit the number of rounds for a magazine. Want said magazine fixed. Then they want to limit you to the worst defensive round of FMJ. Self defense just went out the window.


Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

MagnumDweeb
February 8, 2013, 12:31 AM
The most horrible thing is that the same liberals who voted these people in will flee this utopia for more free lands and bring their disease with them.

Garmangabis
February 8, 2013, 12:47 AM
I haven't been back to California since they banned my .50 BMG.

BHP FAN
February 8, 2013, 12:51 AM
I never voted for any of this crud, and very few people I know did. all of this...stuff...gets decided in Sacremento, San Francisco, and L.A....

Manco
February 8, 2013, 12:54 AM
What, no repeal of the Castle doctrine, and no requirement to store all firearms in disassembled form inside seven lead coffins with dial combination locks on each, and the ammunition (blanks only) stored separately in a vault at a police substation on the other side of town? Gee, I guess they're not all that serious about saving children after all. :rolleyes:

JohnsXDM
February 8, 2013, 02:18 AM
All I can say is that The Supreme Court is gonna be very busy for a long time! With all this BS hitting all the states they need to bundle them all together and make 1 definitive ruling that covers everything about what the 2nd Ammendment is and what it does and does not cover. There is way too much tax payer money being wasted on this s**t!

justice06rr
February 8, 2013, 02:31 AM
"Bummer" said no badguy ever.

Because he will still have his high-cap detachable mags, unregistered firearms and ammo purchases.

California has really gone to the crapper...

Twiki357
February 8, 2013, 02:32 AM
It's unfortunate for most of the state that the idiots who get elected in california are determined by the lib's in san francisco and los angeles who have the population numbers to overpower the rest of the state. Just glad that I escaped to Arizona.

Sheepdog1968
February 8, 2013, 02:35 AM
I have been a law abiding ca citizen and a responsible gun owner. This is just so extreme I may indeed pack up my bags and head to Texas or Washington.

Zoogster
February 8, 2013, 02:48 AM
California law states you cannot have a detachable mag over 10 rounds, so the mag release on an AR15 is a bolt, not a push button.

That is incorrect and almost backwards. It is over 10 rounds period that is not allowed, except detachable grandfathered magazines.
The issue is also two seperate laws, one is a magazine ban on magazines not possessed prior to the year 2000, while the other is part of the definition of assault weapon and applies only to fixed magazine firearms, not those with detachable magazines.
Fixed magazines over 10 rounds (other than tubular rimfire and some exemptions) are always an assault weapon, while grandfathered detachable magazines possessed prior to 2000 in CA are legal.

The result is if you were to for example put a legal grandfathered detachable 30 round magazine into a firearm that has a bullet button you would be creating an illegal assault weapon. Even though possession and use of the magazine is legal, creating a gun with a fixed magazine over 10 rounds is a felony punishable by 10 years in prison.
While putting the same magazine in a gun without a bullet button that is otherwise legal is okay because that gun is not compliant via bullet button but via other features. Like an SU-16 or mini 14, m1a, or AR/AK with special non-pistol grip stock modification and no other features.

This is because the state Assault Weapon definition includes all fixed magazine guns over 10 rounds, and since the whole way bullet buttons make guns otherwise restricted legal is by turning them into fixed magazine firearms not subject to the feature restrictions of detachable magazine firearms, inserting a magazine over 10 rounds is creation of a firearm with a fixed magazine over 10 rounds. All by itself the definition of an unlawful assault weapon with no other feature.
While the assault weapon definition does not include guns with over 10 round detachable magazines. So inserting a magazine over 10 rounds into a gun that accepts detachable magazines (no tool needed to remove) is legal, and only the magazines are not legal.
While illegal possession of a magazine greater than 10 rounds is a lesser crime, and harder to prove.
So ironically inserting a magazine over 10 rounds into a bullet buttoned firearm is actually a much more serious crime than illegal possession and use of a magazine over 30 rounds in an otherwise legal firearm without a bullet button.
So use of a bullet button actually ups the stakes.

Many people are unaware of this. I see people at ranges use magazines over 10 rounds in bullet button firearms. Convinced the issue is whether the magazine is legal or not.
They have no idea they are committing multiple felonies as they swap magazines with thier legally possessed (or illegally possessed that they presume cannot be proven to be from after 2000) magazines.
On the bright side they probably won't actually get 10 years, just become felons, lose thier firearms, and get probation or be out on parole in no time to make room for criminals they consider more important to actually keep locked up.

gazpacho
February 8, 2013, 02:56 AM
Woohoo! California chooses over penetration for the win! I can see it now. California bans HP ammo. Then when someone dies because an FMJ over penetrates and hits an innocent behind the badguy, they'll ban FMJ too.

Those unfortunate suckers will be down to birdshot and muzzle loaders.

Alaska444
February 8, 2013, 03:10 AM
Its a shame the people of California have to live with the trial-by-error system of governance which they decided to elect.
I am getting out but not yet gone. A few more months and hopefully say goodbye forever to this place. Really wild what they are proposing. Sadly, it won't make the state a bit safer at all, far to the opposite.

Manco
February 8, 2013, 03:20 AM
Assault ammo? Apparently the only ammo considered safe is the type that doesn't exit the firearm. Next: Assault toothbrushes!

There they go again using language and logical fallacies as powerful tools against truth and liberty. So "assault rifles" are such because the military uses similar (-looking) rifles, but "assault bullets" are the kind that the military does NOT use, and they want us to use military-style bullets instead. Does this make any sense whatsoever? Yes, absolutely, as long as we use doublethink, which most people have no trouble doing because they're fixated on the word "assault" and our convoluted refutation confuses them.

Cast of One
February 8, 2013, 07:07 AM
I am proud to be a Californian, but now I rethinking that pride. My plan was to move back to california when I retire, but now I may not if this law passes.

ApacheCoTodd
February 8, 2013, 11:09 AM
In the news coverage of the California-cop-killer manhunt currently centering on Big Bear - due to the suspects truck supposedly being found there - this gal at 1:10 says it plain and clear: "Thank God they haven't taken our guns away, 'cause we can protect ourselves".

Wow, KTLA? Really!?!

http://ktla.com/2013/02/08/massive-manhunt-for-ex-cop-moves-to-big-bear/#axzz2KJhYNxwi

SoCalNoMore
February 8, 2013, 11:21 AM
I never dare scoff, because in CA I honestly don't know, what are the odds of any of this passing?
Very good odds actually. When I was there in 94 I didn't think that AWB would get voted in. And now look at their state laws for weapons. I have a good feeling that Cali will pass most if not all of their proposals. Fact of the matter is, overwhelmingly the population is liberal or Hispanic. both of which don't care about having the 2a or guns.

SoCalNoMore
February 8, 2013, 11:22 AM
I am proud to be a Californian, but now I rethinking that pride. My plan was to move back to california when I retire, but now I may not if this law passes.
Sheesh, could you afford to live there in retirement?

SoCalNoMore
February 8, 2013, 11:25 AM
They limit the number of rounds for a magazine. Want said magazine fixed. Then they want to limit you to the worst defensive round of FMJ. Self defense just went out the window.


Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Limiting the ammo to FMJ really worries me. Will the politicians be held accountable for the bullet that goes through the BG and kills an innocent?

browneu
February 8, 2013, 12:05 PM
Limiting the ammo to FMJ really worries me. Will the politicians be held accountable for the bullet that goes through the BG and kills an innocent?

Correct, however I have a strong suspicion that the legislators believe shooting someone will knock them backward and instantly incapacitate them. They watch to many of their movies.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Manco
February 8, 2013, 12:08 PM
In the news coverage of the California-cop-killer manhunt currently centering on Big Bear - due to the suspects truck supposedly being found there - this gal at 1:10 says it plain and clear: "Thank God they haven't taken our guns away, 'cause we can protect ourselves".

They didn't take everybody's guns away?! :eek:

Pilot
February 8, 2013, 12:13 PM
Californians also go to Colorado. Just check out what is going on there. :rolleyes:

BoilerUP
February 8, 2013, 12:13 PM
Modest proposals like eating babies was a modest proposal...

Solo
February 8, 2013, 12:23 PM
You, sir, have never had a fricasseed baby.

Creeping Incrementalism
February 8, 2013, 12:49 PM
Some of the statements at that press conference made by legislators are wrong, some of it hasn't actually been introduced as a bill yet, and it appears some of the reporting (Reddit) is wrong, for instance:I don't think anyone actually mentioned a 500 round ammo purchase limit. I didn't watch the conference itself, but a quick search of the 700+ post thread on CalGuns.net didn't mention it. There is a bill to require a license to purchase ammo, however. Also mentioned is banning all detachable mag semi-autos, but the bill that has been introduced so far is just a placeholder so far.

So it will take a few months for the Dems to flesh out these bills. Bills in California are normally signed in September and October.

I encourage all of you who are interested to come to CalGuns.net. It is a very active board--right now there are 4200 members online, by comparison ARFCOM has 10,500--and we have a number of members from other states who are posters. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=71

Considering how many Okies went to California during the Dustbowl, it would be something of a homecoming.

I read a book about California demographics, and this statement is no joke. During WWII, a gigantic war industry emerged in California, with a huge influx of Americans mostly from the mid-west. That's in addition to the Dust Bowl folks. It's interesting that the people from Kansas stayed red, while those who came here to California turned blue.

Mayvik
February 8, 2013, 12:55 PM
Feel bad for you...I left after 4 years, and ditched my property at a loss knowing I'd never go back. CA is beautiful country filled with a horde of idiots.

However, as a current resident of CO (now CA light :( ), CA residents please think about getting your house in order instead of fleeing elsewhere. It just makes it worse for the rest of us when there's absolutely no chance of CA's electoral votes going anywhere but the far left. Using the "run away somewhere better" plan eventually results in one state full of the right left which will be completely politically oppressed by the sea of blue surrounding it.

roadchoad
February 8, 2013, 12:57 PM
Oh boy. I predict a lot more Californians leaving the state if this crap passes.

I think that is probably what the powers-that-be want. They should hold their ground and fight it.

Manco
February 8, 2013, 01:09 PM
Californians also go to Colorado. Just check out what is going on there. :rolleyes:

With public opinion being turned against gun owners, the last thing we need is to discriminate against one another. Wouldn't those living in Colorado prefer to have like-minded Californians come to Colorado to help offset the other California transplants you're (apparently) complaining about?

I think that is probably what the powers-that-be want.

Not really because they have all the power and wish to retain the revenue that we provide--ideally, for them, we would all turn in our firearms and stay.

They should hold their ground and fight it.

Yes, at least until all is lost, or else this disease we're dealing with might spread.

Ashcons
February 8, 2013, 01:47 PM
Man, I was born and raised in CA. Left for college at 18 and, after gaining political awareness in my late 20s, decided I could never move back despite having so many friends and family in the Bay Area. Between the continual growth of the political class in the State, the broken economy caused by that, and the extreme oversight that system desires and strives for in everyone else's life, there's just no way I could see myself there.

Heck, I'd be a felon just for crossing state lines with my possessions. An upstanding, productive job-holding professional in one state, never accused of anything more serious than speeding when I was younger; a dangerous felon in need of 10 years (max) of incarceration in CA due to ownership of some pieces of steel, stainless steel, aluminum, and plastic. :confused:

Manco
February 8, 2013, 02:14 PM
Man, I was born and raised in CA. Left for college at 18 and, after gaining political awareness in my late 20s, decided I could never move back despite having so many friends and family in the Bay Area. Between the continual growth of the political class in the State, the broken economy caused by that, and the extreme oversight that system desires and strives for in everyone else's life, there's just no way I could see myself there.

Wise choice--this state is going downhill fast. California used to be a very different place. Sadly, and ironically in light of so many people's snide comments, it has suffered from a tremendous influx of "fruits & nuts" from elsewhere. Only in the last few decades has it been producing and exporting them, and other states will eventually suffer the same fate.

Voyager
February 8, 2013, 04:00 PM
All I can say is that The Supreme Court is gonna be very busy for a long time! With all this BS hitting all the states they need to bundle them all together and make 1 definitive ruling that covers everything about what the 2nd Ammendment is and what it does and does not cover. There is way too much tax payer money being wasted on this s**t!
Where have you been hiding out, what you have opined, has already long since been done. Do the names "Heller & McDonald" mean much? Certain soviet styled states are simply ignoring the law entirely, particularly NY, IL, & KA.

Capybara
February 9, 2013, 01:37 PM
Unfortunately, we are living in the Dystopian future in this state and we are a sign of what is to come in your states. While our leaders and politicians here are evil controlling overlords, I blame what has happened here on the zombies and sheeple that are the electorate. Ultra leftist anti-gunners are going to do what they are going to do, but they can only accomplish their nefarious goals with the complicity of the populace and the majority of the populace here WANT the government to control them. Let's face it, a huge portion of the populace here come from other societies where the government controls every aspect of your life, concepts like freedom and being responsible for your own destiny are foreign concepts to them so they are creating a state where the government controls every aspect of their lives. Sheeple.

People in this state are statists, want the government to take care of them and all they really care about are their iPhones, XBoxes and big screen TVs. They don't care about freedom, responsibility and making your own path through life, that is why the Feinsteins, Boxers, and Pelosis have all came from this state.

I was born here and have lived here my entire life. California is the best state as far as the geography and lifestyle and one of the worst states as far as people. There are good, responsible, law abiding gun owners here, but we are so out voted by the electorate as to be insignificant. There was protest in Sacramento yesterday against the announced anti-gun bills and whopping 200 people showed up to protest. Wow, I bet that had a huge effect on what the evil anti-gun overlords are doing.

danez71
February 9, 2013, 03:46 PM
There was protest in Sacramento yesterday against the announced anti-gun bills and whopping 200 people showed up to protest. Wow, I bet that had a huge effect on what the evil anti-gun overlords are doing.

What do you expect with about 2 days of planning and planned to be held on a workday?

The news outlets work 7 days a week even if the politician dont.

Why make it harder for the 2A supporters to join?

Yo Mama
February 9, 2013, 07:25 PM
I think that is probably what the powers-that-be want. They should hold their ground and fight it.

How? I agree with you, it's not that. I just don't see how anymore.

CA has been a lost cause for a while. Same with NY, NJ, CT, MA, IL, ect...

What to do. Write, email, call, demonstrate? Then what? They pass what they want anyway because the population centers are heavily anti.

I fear that many pro gun states are on the edge. Everyone thinks Texas and Arizona are safe. Not so. We in AZ are dealing with a huge change in politics. Even our "Conservative" Gov. Brewer won't sign pro gun legislation. The make up of our state and many others are turning to the entitlement mentality.

Gordon
February 9, 2013, 07:35 PM
If they try retro active stuff or really draconian stuff I think these scumbags are gonna see their heads roll, politically speaking, at least!:neener: All my country boy friends aren't letting no commie gays run them out .:evil:

splithoof
February 10, 2013, 01:38 AM
What "law abiding citizens"? You might have been one yesterday, but you are not one tomorrow. Anyone who upholds any of these laws is nothing but a bucket of Torry scum! As a resident of California, I hope it goes totally bankrupt, collapses, and hits rock-bottom, so we citizens can then start the rebuild process, socialists be damned!

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