What is the most gun friendly state?


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radiotom
February 7, 2013, 09:11 PM
What state do you guys think is the absolutely most gun friendly state?

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Chevelle SS
February 7, 2013, 09:22 PM
Vermont maybe?

primalmu
February 7, 2013, 09:23 PM
I'm sure Texas ranks right up there. Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia, too.

xxjumbojimboxx
February 7, 2013, 09:24 PM
Alaska

Cesiumsponge
February 7, 2013, 09:25 PM
You can't open carry in Texas. That seems pretty silly.

Alaska, Arizona, and Vermont need no approval to conceal carry.

I'm not sure how those three stack on NFA items. I don't have a NFA chart handy.

Ragnar Danneskjold
February 7, 2013, 09:26 PM
I might be inclined to say Texas if they allowed open carry. With OC banned though, I'd say that makes it pretty hard to call them the friendliest

blaisenguns
February 7, 2013, 09:27 PM
Florida isn't bad.

oneounceload
February 7, 2013, 09:31 PM
Florida +1, Alaska, NH, VT, AZ NV, NM, ID, UT, WY and on and on - most are Western states

fanchisimo
February 7, 2013, 09:34 PM
Seems like I always hear good things about Utah. Arizona however you don't need a license for C&C. I want to point out that's the beauty of the US as it stands, if you don't like the values your state holds to a strong enough degree, there is likely one out there that will suit you better.

joecil
February 7, 2013, 09:36 PM
Utah is probably the gun friendliest followed by Kentucky. This is based on the Brady bunch's ratings from worse to best with Utah the worst and Kentucky second worse Texas and Florida rated a couple point higher than either. I will also add that Kentucky has the most CCDW permits in the nation and that from a state who's total population is about 4.5 million people.

Evergreen
February 7, 2013, 09:38 PM
Washington state is probably one of the friendliest and, unlike Texas, I see people open carrying all over here and the police forces have been trained, as of recently, to actually understand the laws of open carry, compared to other states where many people who attempt to open carry still find nervous cops with guns drawn on them.

The only strike against Washington is no Short barrel (NFA) long guns. Short barrel AR/AK pistols are allowed. Suppressors are now allowed to be both owned and fired in the state of WA (an old law prevented this which is now been overturned). This has to do with a glitch in law that was implemented in the past and not so much to do with the current mentality of the government. I guess one more strike against Washington is the city of Seattle always tries to pass its own gun bans, but they seem to always fail. There is actually quite a few gun ranges in the Seattle area for a metro area of its size. This may also have to do with the fact Seattle runs north to south and a lot of remote forest land parallels the metro area, making it even more gun friendly :D.

Washington state was also a shall-issue state long before the other so-called "gun friendly" states were still may or no issue.

Having Mt Rainier in the backdrop of your shooting range is just a really wonderful experience as well.

Idaho I would say is on paper more gun friendly than Washington, but I never seen anyone open carry in Idaho (except me :D) and don't believe it is looked well upon. Whereas, in Washington I see people open carry everywhere. Even this guy sitting next to me in the DMV as I was waiting for my license had his 1911 on his hip.

Oregon is also a gun friendly state, if you remove Portland from the equation. If the Hi-Cap mag passes in Oregon, then Washington will easily take the helm as the more gun friendly of the two.


Utah is probably the gun friendliest followed by Kentucky. This is based on the Brady bunch's ratings from worse to best with Utah the worst and Kentucky second worse Texas and Florida rated a couple point higher than either. I will also add that Kentucky has the most CCDW permits in the nation and that from a state who's total population is about 4.5 million people.
As far as I heard Utah doesn't have Castle Doctrine or a Stand Your Ground Law. That is a major strike in the world of gun friendliness as far as I am concerned.

Gato Montés
February 7, 2013, 09:42 PM
I'll throw in my vote for Alaska as the environment up there has made regulations unpractical and ownership a necessity.

I'd also like to throw in Wisconsin however. We don't get much credit up here, mostly due to our long standing prohibition on CC, but with that now institutionalized we have a pretty good thing going on. Full NFA state (full auto, sbs and sbr, suppressors), suppressor hunting friendly, no arduous requirements except a 2 day waiting period on handguns:barf:, and plenty of places to use your firearms for whatever reason including a couple spacious Nat Forests to play around in.

MaterDei
February 7, 2013, 09:42 PM
Evergreen, you're saying that Washington and Oregon are the most gun friendly states?

Really?

jim920
February 7, 2013, 09:47 PM
Indiana is ok.

Evergreen
February 7, 2013, 09:49 PM
Evergreen, you're saying that Washington and Oregon are the most gun friendly states?

Really?
Yes I am... At least as of now... I did grow up in Oregon and live in Washington, as well as lived in Idaho and travelled through Montana. Even Montana is not as gun friendly as Washington. In Montana, I cannot bring a gun into any restaurant that serves alcohol, even if I am not sitting at the bar. In Washington and Oregon, no such BS rules apply. Basically, in Montana you have to leave your gun in your car if you go to a restaurant, as 90% of them serve some type of alcohol.

In states like Texas you cannot even open carry, which is a real pain for me, as I love hiking and in the hot weather I like carrying my gun on my chest holster over my shirt, as it gets too hot to conceal it under my vest.

Go apply for a CHL in WA and you will see how easy it is.. No classes, certificates or other BS to get a CHL.. It isn't much different than AZ, except a $50 fee to the Sheriff. WA is shall issue state even for out of state residents..

Cesiumsponge
February 7, 2013, 09:57 PM
Washington state has preemption on gun laws so it keeps liberal cities from enacting stricter laws. Washington is friendly, but not the friendliest by any stretch of the imagination. People here open carry but we only get suppressors or AOW in the NFA game unless you were grandfathered in a few decades ago.

You can't pump your own gas in Oregon.

robMaine
February 7, 2013, 10:02 PM
How does no-one mention ME. Shall-issue CCW, OC, and full NFA

Evergreen
February 7, 2013, 10:04 PM
Washington state has preemption on gun laws so it keeps liberal cities from enacting stricter laws. Washington is friendly, but not the friendliest by any stretch of the imagination. People here open carry but we only get suppressors or AOW in the NFA game unless you were grandfathered in a few decades ago.

You can't pump your own gas in Oregon.
This is not 100% true anymore about suppressors.. Suppressors are now 100% legal to own , buy and shoot in the state of Washington. The law against suppressors was struck down or expired. I have seen suppressors for sale at stores and I can shoot them at my local gun range in the Tacoma area.

True, I forgot about the law about full autos. That is a strike against WA. Considering ammo prices, that law doesn't affect me. I'd take the loss of owning full autos to not being allowed to open carry, such as in the state of Texas.

I know people here in Washington think it is not the gun friendliest state. We keeping thinking of "Texas" or Montana or Southern states. But when you go and study their gun laws you will be amazed to see many of them have unconstitutional rules that our own state doesn't have.

For example, read above about my experience in Montana, not being allowed to bring a gun into a restaurant. I thought going to Montana would mean i had more gun freedom, not less!

JEL
February 7, 2013, 10:11 PM
There are definitely two sides to Washington, the dry side helps to balance out the libby wet side containing Seattle. As Evergreen said, Seattle is definitely NOT gun friendly, in fact it's probably among staunchest anti-gun cities in the States, but luckily the dry side balances things out nicely for us; at least for the time being. The recent gun buy back was a bit concerning, though, as the turnout was huge, far more than expected in fact. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come for our state, but I'm afraid it may very well be.

The state just elected another democrat as governor, although there was some silver lining in that Rob Mckenna (R) was nipping at his heels. This shows me people may be growing tired of the blue disease up here, but again, the recent attack on the 2A led by the city of Seattle and propagated by the local media is of concern.

Sam Cade
February 7, 2013, 10:17 PM
KY has open carry. Our CCDW covers any conceivable personal weapon not just firearms.
NFA friendly. (Knob Creek anybody?)
Castle Doctrine? Yup. KRS 503.055

....and the constitution preempts any firearms laws by local gub'ments.

Buck Kramer
February 7, 2013, 10:19 PM
Iowa is up there, open carry whatever you like up here.

ID-shooting
February 7, 2013, 10:28 PM
Ya, I agree with my neighbors, Washington rocks, Idaho sucks. We are no better than NYC for gun laws. Don't move here, you should move to Washington! ;)

Texshooter
February 7, 2013, 10:37 PM
You can't open carry in Texas. That seems pretty silly.

Alaska, Arizona, and Vermont need no approval to conceal carry.

I'm not sure how those three stack on NFA items. I don't have a NFA chart handy.
What about Wyoming?

Kiln
February 7, 2013, 10:44 PM
Go to the Brady website and check how they rate each state in gun safety. Basically, the lower the score given by the Brady campaign, the better off gun owners are there.

Bobson
February 7, 2013, 10:47 PM
Alaska, Arizona, and Vermont need no approval to conceal carry.
Wyoming doesn't require a permit to carry concealed either.

I took a trip to Texas in January, and read through the laws on guns and knives before we left. I was pretty disappointed with what I found. I wouldn't call Texas a gun-friendly state; certainly not knife-friendly.

Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming, Vermont. In that order.

jbkebert
February 7, 2013, 10:47 PM
I have no problems with the gun laws in Kansas.

Cesiumsponge
February 7, 2013, 10:54 PM
Evergreen, please re-read my post. I said we only get suppressors and AOWs but never said we can't use cans. I've had cans waiting to see the light of day the second the suppressor law was amended a couple years ago. There aren't really any cool AOW's though. The gun market is promising as Daniel Defense is releasing the ISR and Sig is developing the MPX so we'll soon have a "suppressed SBR-in-one" option for those of us who want to run it for fun or home defense.

It doesn't really matter if it's the wet or dry side as WA's state preemption law prevents Seattle from enacting Chicago-like laws. Seattle is throwing a fit but there is nothing they can do about it. The only thing you have to contend with is the people. The great and terrible thing about most Washingtonians is they keep to themselves. We aren't a very open people. We're friendly but we don't talk a lot. This means I don't bump into a lot of anti-gunners because they keep to themselves. Most people here are very passive aggressive so they won't bother you if you huff or grunt at them.

The last few elections for a Republican governor have been very close. If Gregoire didn't demand vote recounts until she won, we'd have Rossi in office right now.

digsigs226
February 7, 2013, 10:55 PM
I'd probably say Utah is up there.

No AWB, mag limits, etc

You can open carry without a permit provided you have the safety on and don't have one in the pipe.

The Utah concealed carry permit is also renowned for it's reciprocity.

Sam Cade
February 7, 2013, 10:56 PM
You can open carry without a permit provided you have the safety on and don't have one in the pipe.

That is pretty sucky.

mjsdwash
February 7, 2013, 11:03 PM
washington has concealed carry, shall issue. We have a somewhat clear open carry, no major bans, legal supressors, and oaw. We also have some interesting self defense laws, that work in favor of the defense. Few ranges thou, and more and more outdoor shooting restrictions on the western half of the state. We get a lot of people from other states that scare easy, and the gun control push has been getting stronger the last few years. Overall i would say its pretty good.

ole farmerbuck
February 7, 2013, 11:07 PM
Kansas: Right-to-Carry Reform Bill Advances in Topeka



In a rare unanimous vote, the Kansas Senate voted yesterday to expand the rights of law-abiding gun owners in the Sunflower State. Senate Bill 21, introduced by the Senate Federal and State Affairs Committee, would reform the state Right-to-Carry laws and strengthen the rights of Kansas’ law-abiding gun owners in several ways. This bill now goes to the Kansas House of Representatives where it will be assigned to a committee for further consideration.

SB 21 is a Right-to-Carry reform that would make a number of important changes. The most substantial change would allow for universal recognition of non-resident carry permits. In other words, any law-abiding visitor from out-of-state with a valid state-issued carry permit would be allowed to carry a concealed handgun in Kansas. This change would not only benefit concealed carry permit holders in other states but it will also make it more likely that other states will recognize Kansas’ carry permit.

Also under SB 21, new Kansas residents who hold a valid concealed carry permit from their previous state of residence would be able to instantly apply for a Kansas permit instead of waiting to acquire their official Kansas resident status. New residents would be granted a temporary “180-day receipt” to carry on their old permit while their application is considered and processed. The state Attorney General would also be able to create a list of states which meet or exceed Kansas’ requirements and that would automatically qualify for recognition for issuance of a Kansas permit.

Thank you to all of the state senators who supported this technical, yet important, improvement to Kansas’ firearm laws. Thank you also to NRA members who contacted their state senators in support of SB 21. Your NRA-ILA will continue to update you as this bill moves through the House but now is the time to contact your state Representative and urge him or her to support this bill when it comes up for a vote.

TwoEyedJack
February 7, 2013, 11:13 PM
Idaho does not have any real state laws over and above the federal ones. You can carry concealed without a permit outside of a city, mining camp, logging camp, etc. CCW permits are shall issue, and I got Pennsylvania to send me a copy of my hunter's safety card from 1976 as proof of training. Utah does not recognize an Idaho CCW permit, which is a pain since I travel there for work sometimes. There are no restrictions on NFA weapons. All in all, not much to complain about.

Fryerpower
February 7, 2013, 11:20 PM
Tennessee is good once you get over the hand gun permit requirement. Once you have a HCP you can:
Open carry
Concealed carry
Carry in church
Carry in bars as long as you are not drinking
Have a long gun in your car with a magazine in it, no round in the chamber
Long gun in your car with a full magazine, and a round in the chamber if you are in immenent danger
Carry in state parks
That law that allows you to build firearms in Tennessee without consulting the federal government as long as you stamp them made in Tennessee and they never leave the state. (Good luck with that one. I don't know anyone who has tried it.)
Carry your handgun while hunting - They are two separate issues. One set of rules covers hunting, one set covers carrying a handgun. The handgun is for self protection.

We still are working on safe commute and teachers carrying in school.

Jim

303tom
February 7, 2013, 11:20 PM
Missouri, I have no problem with ours................

ID-shooting
February 7, 2013, 11:23 PM
Shoooosh! Our laws suck! We do not want anyone else moving here.

Who told you UT doesn't recognize our permits? They have for many years.

Okiegunner
February 7, 2013, 11:29 PM
I live (on weekends) in Oklahoma and work in Texas. Both states are not bad, though I would give the edge to Oklahoma (open carry).

From what I have read, I would say Vermont (constitutional carry), then Wyoming and Alaska.

Vermont!!! Really??? When I first found out about Vermont, I was really surprised!!

Bobson
February 7, 2013, 11:38 PM
I'm surprised many of you are putting so much emphasis on open carry. Isn't it widely accepted that OC is an awful idea? Any of my top four states could have open carry banned, and it wouldn't have an effect on their place at the top, for me at least.

Only reason AZ isn't number one for me is because state law gives business owners lawful authority to ban firearms in their establishment. I understand that it's their business, and I would also expect the right to say what goes in my business (if I had one), but I still don't like it. Many states don't give business owners the authority to make that call. I'm pretty sure Alaska does not.

ETA: If my wife was as willing as I am to boycott businesses who ban firearms, it probably wouldn't bother me as much. Then again, my wife doesn't carry anyway.

Sam Cade
February 7, 2013, 11:46 PM
Isn't it widely accepted that OC is an awful idea?

Lord no.



Trivia: Why do most LEOs open carry?

Bobson
February 8, 2013, 12:04 AM
Ugh. I'm not starting this debate in someone else's thread.

Triva answer: Allows for quicker access to the firearm. Also, a gun on an LEO's hip doesn't make him any more of a target than the average joe; his uniform does that for him.

Cesiumsponge
February 8, 2013, 12:17 AM
Who cares if it's a good or bad idea? It's your freedom to do or not do it and you're responsible for the consequences of that decision, unless your government says it's a naughty thing. Maybe we don't need assault weapons either.

Private property is a cornerstone of a free society like firearms and speech. My property, my rules. Business owners should have the right to dictate what flies on their property.

Bhi curamach
February 8, 2013, 12:21 AM
Another for the sunflower state. MO is decent but there are aways the fools over in the far eastern area who try enacting random idiocy. I suspect its in reaction to the delightful areas shared by their IL counterparts in that dual city that cause this.
I'm guessing though.

gearjammer-2000
February 8, 2013, 12:28 AM
well don't leave Ohio out after all brady only gives it a 7 would be #1 in my book except for the fact they don't allow deer hunting with rifles

Evergreen
February 8, 2013, 12:38 AM
Evergreen, please re-read my post. I said we only get suppressors and AOWs but never said we can't use cans. I've had cans waiting to see the light of day the second the suppressor law was amended a couple years ago. There aren't really any cool AOW's though. The gun market is promising as Daniel Defense is releasing the ISR and Sig is developing the MPX so we'll soon have a "suppressed SBR-in-one" option for those of us who want to run it for fun or home defense.

It doesn't really matter if it's the wet or dry side as WA's state preemption law prevents Seattle from enacting Chicago-like laws. Seattle is throwing a fit but there is nothing they can do about it. The only thing you have to contend with is the people. The great and terrible thing about most Washingtonians is they keep to themselves. We aren't a very open people. We're friendly but we don't talk a lot. This means I don't bump into a lot of anti-gunners because they keep to themselves. Most people here are very passive aggressive so they won't bother you if you huff or grunt at them.

The last few elections for a Republican governor have been very close. If Gregoire didn't demand vote recounts until she won, we'd have Rossi in office right now.
You have summarized Washington in a nutshell :D. I noticed people are lot quieter about their opinions than in my home state of Oregon. Also, people are very reserved and almost what appears rather shy and/or anti-social. Oregon is state where people also are a bit reserved and passive aggressive, but not to the degree as in Washington.

I find Washington to be the most beautiful state I have ever seen. I love looking out at Mt Rainier on a clear or semi-clear day. I have three gun ranges within modest driving distance and one 10 min from me. I like the fact I can drive 30 min and be in world class city and another 30 min and be in the wilderness.

I sure hope WA gun laws will stay as non-restrictive as they are. Outside of Seattle/Bellevue proper, things redden up around the wet side. Pierce (outside Tacoma), Clark and Whatcom counties where I have lived are more on the conservative side.

Most people I meet around here are not vehemetly anti-gun. Also, I don't realy feel Seattle, for being a very large city is more anti-gun than many other large cities its size. Yeah the liberals there would love to take away every gun we own, but the same can be said for most big cities around the country.

On the suppressor subject:
Sorry, I don't quite understand what you are talking about with not being able to acquire a can. I know a guy who has a huge selection at the Vancouver, WA gun show and many people tell me it is like a 2 or 3 month wait from the ATF for NFA stamp, which has nothing to do with the state of WA. I am not even understanding what you mean by a suppressor not seeing the light of day. There is a lot of people selling suppressors in WA state, or at least there was when I was looking at them a little while ago.

Evergreen
February 8, 2013, 12:47 AM
Shoooosh! Our laws suck! We do not want anyone else moving here.

Who told you UT doesn't recognize our permits? They have for many years.
I'm sure all the liberals fleeing from California will be happy to know Idaho is a place where they are safe from crazy people with guns.. :scrutiny:

zorro45
February 8, 2013, 12:54 AM
Thanks Brady Bunch for helping us pick out the most gun friendly states!!!!!

breakingcontact
February 8, 2013, 01:13 AM
We have good gun laws...

and

jobs.

Western states definitely have an appeal though.

Cesiumsponge
February 8, 2013, 01:26 AM
Another one for WA: all gun safes are tax free. Good incentive for folks that need to buy some armor for their guns. I didn't even know other states had a ban on church-carry, if folks are mentioning church-carry is legal. It's legal everywhere in WA except in bars, 21+ drinking areas, and your typical government buildings.

One thing fairly unique to the western half of WA is the vast wildnerness and huge outdoor culture. 30 minutes of driving and you're in the forests or mountains. Half the olympic penninsula is a rainforest. I can grab my mountain bike and get muddy without having to plan an all-day trip, or hump a pack for a day or weekend trip. I'm big on rain and mud so I haven't really spent much time on the eastern half of the state, but I'm sure those folks have a lot more land for long-range gun ranges. We have none of that on our end. The summers aren't too hot and winters aren't too cold. No poisonous critters to deal with. Don't get much sun though, but I like that. I really don't want more people moving to WA...at least not Californians. They keep driving up our real estate and screwing up our politics. Seattle used to be a very blue-collar city. Now it's full of people who absolutely hate the blue-collar class.

Evergreen, I still think you're misunderstanding me. I have my fair share of cans. I implied they never saw the light of day because we could legally own them, but not actually USE them until a couple years ago when the suppressor law was ammended. I've had cans before they were legal to use, but were legal to own. Luckily that ridiculous bit of legislation no longer exists. Current Form 4 times is around 5 months with a trust. I just had one come back to me on the 16th of January which was submitted June of last year (delayed slightly due to an error). The NFA recently hired nine more examiners but 2-3 months is a tall tale. My first Form 4 years ago took 4 months, before it was all jammed up by election scares. There is no way it can be 2-3 months with the huge spike in NFA sales due to election/ban scares.

I'm hoping to move to north Tacoma in the next year or two. I'm tired of King county taxes. Tacoma's northern downtown area by the bay is awesome. Still very blue-collar vibe as long as I stay away from the silly gang stuff, but that's all migrating south into Lakewood.

Kybill
February 8, 2013, 01:31 AM
Kentucky has got to be either 1st or 2nd place in my view.

9MMare
February 8, 2013, 01:40 AM
Evergreen, you're saying that Washington and Oregon are the most gun friendly states?

Really?

WA St requires no training or test to receive your permit. Shall-issue in 30 days, almost always less except King Co. (and now apparently, because of a huge upswing in applications)

You can carry almost anywhere, including banks and hospitals and restaurants that serve alcohol...just not in the sections where under 21 are not allowed. And not fed. property of course.

The only area where I think OR has an advantage is I believe they can carry on school grounds but I dont know the details of that.

9MMare
February 8, 2013, 01:50 AM
Evergreen, please re-read my post. I said we only get suppressors and AOWs but never said we can't use cans. I've had cans waiting to see the light of day the second the suppressor law was amended a couple years ago. There aren't really any cool AOW's though. The gun market is promising as Daniel Defense is releasing the ISR and Sig is developing the MPX so we'll soon have a "suppressed SBR-in-one" option for those of us who want to run it for fun or home defense.

It doesn't really matter if it's the wet or dry side as WA's state preemption law prevents Seattle from enacting Chicago-like laws. Seattle is throwing a fit but there is nothing they can do about it. The only thing you have to contend with is the people. The great and terrible thing about most Washingtonians is they keep to themselves. We aren't a very open people. We're friendly but we don't talk a lot. This means I don't bump into a lot of anti-gunners because they keep to themselves. Most people here are very passive aggressive so they won't bother you if you huff or grunt at them.

The last few elections for a Republican governor have been very close. If Gregoire didn't demand vote recounts until she won, we'd have Rossi in office right now.

I'm on the West side and I am involved with PLENTY of gun folks. And I've also found them, in casual conversation, in VERY surprising places and organizations. I'm ex-Microsoft and my renters are a Microsoft couple....my renters were so funny when they tried to approach me about if it was ok to have guns. And they are into them. (I know others from there as well, but they are my most obvious example). Yeah...there are many Democrats and liberals (by gun forum standards) in W. WA...and a ton of them are pro-gun.

Maybe it doesnt come up casually among 'acquaintances' or among strangers but to me, concealed means concealed anyway. But I have always been happily surprised by the gun folks I run into...and the cc permits for King co alone should tell you something...and I mean the numbers before the Ct shooting.

ol' scratch
February 8, 2013, 01:52 AM
Ohio has pretty good laws.

9MMare
February 8, 2013, 01:58 AM
I sure hope WA gun laws will stay as non-restrictive as they are. Outside of Seattle/Bellevue proper, things redden up around the wet side. Pierce (outside Tacoma), Clark and Whatcom counties where I have lived are more on the conservative side.

.

WA St. might be an exception (truly) but there are plenty of BLUE gun owners and carriers.

The permit numbers in Sno, King, and Pierce counties wouldnt be what they are if there werent.

Evergreen
February 8, 2013, 01:59 AM
Another one for WA: all gun safes are tax free. Good incentive for folks that need to buy some armor for their guns. I didn't even know other states had a ban on church-carry, if folks are mentioning church-carry is legal. It's legal everywhere in WA except in bars, 21+ drinking areas, and your typical government buildings.

One thing fairly unique to the western half of WA is the vast wildnerness and huge outdoor culture. 30 minutes of driving and you're in the forests or mountains. Half the olympic penninsula is a rainforest. I can grab my mountain bike and get muddy without having to plan an all-day trip, or hump a pack for a day or weekend trip. I'm big on rain and mud so I haven't really spent much time on the eastern half of the state, but I'm sure those folks have a lot more land for long-range gun ranges. We have none of that on our end. The summers aren't too hot and winters aren't too cold. No poisonous critters to deal with. Don't get much sun though, but I like that. I really don't want more people moving to WA...at least not Californians. They keep driving up our real estate and screwing up our politics. Seattle used to be a very blue-collar city. Now it's full of people who absolutely hate the blue-collar class.

Evergreen, I still think you're misunderstanding me. I have my fair share of cans. I implied they never saw the light of day because we could legally own them, but not actually USE them until a couple years ago when the suppressor law was ammended. I've had cans before they were legal to use, but were legal to own. Luckily that ridiculous bit of legislation no longer exists. Current Form 4 times is around 5 months with a trust. I just had one come back to me on the 16th of January which was submitted June of last year (delayed slightly due to an error). The NFA recently hired nine more examiners but 2-3 months is a tall tale. My first Form 4 years ago took 4 months, before it was all jammed up by election scares. There is no way it can be 2-3 months with the huge spike in NFA sales due to election/ban scares.

I'm hoping to move to north Tacoma in the next year or two. I'm tired of King county taxes. Tacoma's northern downtown area by the bay is awesome. Still very blue-collar vibe as long as I stay away from the silly gang stuff, but that's all migrating south into Lakewood.
Thanks for clarifying the issue about the suppressors, Cesium. I think I understand what you are saying now. Yeah, they previously had some stupid laws restricting them, but now, those laws have been abolished, thankfully!

I also really like North Tacoma and find the beauty here near Puyallup to be amazing. I actually like Tacoma a whole lot more than Seattle and the city seems to be rejuvenating itself. Lakewood and Southeast Tacoma seem a world away from the North and west side. People in Tacoma seem a lot friendlier and there is lot of outdoorsy people and stuff to do here. The scenery with the Olympics and Rainier/Cascades is next to none. T-town actually has stuff going for it. I may consider one day relocating to North Tacoma too, if I can get the funds.

I've recently moved to the area and I am a member of Paul Bunyan and I'm always looking for people to shoot with, as I don't get much time to go out to the range anymore, Let me know if you make it down this way.


WA St requires no training or test to receive your permit. Shall-issue in 30 days, almost always less except King Co. (and now apparently, because of a huge upswing in applications)

You can carry almost anywhere, including banks and hospitals and restaurants that serve alcohol...just not in the sections where under 21 are not allowed. And not fed. property of course.

The only area where I think OR has an advantage is I believe they can carry on school grounds but I dont know the details of that.

9mmAre, I am from Oregon and I have studied the laws. Unless things have changed, you are allowed to carry on non-college or university public schools if you have a conceal carry license. Oregon you can also carry in a bar, even if you are drinking. The mayor of Portland deemed downtown Portland a "Gun Free Zone", but he will have a heck of time fighting it in court. Every person arrested so far just gets booked, not charged and then let out within a couple hours. Just the liberal Portland government thugs harrassing the law-abiding. Outside of Portland, Oregon has the best (least restrictive in the country) laws. Although, the liberal San Franciscans/Los Angelinos who now reside in Oregon are trying to change that. A new Hi-Cap ban is being introduced in the Oregon state Senate.

mljdeckard
February 8, 2013, 02:23 AM
I like to do this every so often to see how much I can remember on the spot.

UT does not yet have Constitutional carry. We're working on it.
Visibly possessing a gun cannot be called brandishing.
Black and white law stating that bearing arms cannot be construed as disturbing the peace is currently under debate. (It narrowly failed last year.)
You can carry at any school, pre-university.
State has pre-emption.
Businesses cannot forbid carry.
You can open carry anywhere you can carry concealed with a permit. (While I don't recommend doing it at your kid's school, probably nothing will happen.)
You can carry at church as long as you aren't Mormon.
You can carry in a bar, you can drink while carrying, as long as you stay below .08.
BLM land, national parks, state parks, all ok for carry.
If you don't like that NM and NV dropped for lack of a competency requirement, ask AZ for a permit. (My packet came in the mail today.)
Stand your ground and castle doctrine before it was cool.
Immunity from civil suit if no-billed in criminal case.
Desert, rivers, mountains, cities, microbrews, hippies, theater, gay culture, opera, ballet, conservatives, Mormons, atheists, take your pick. (And you CAN get a drink here.)
No duty to inform police you are carrying. (But I do recommend it, the response is overwhelmingly positive.)
No state laws over and above federal for gun ownership.

Bottom line, we were gleeful when we got the first ever 'F' grade from the Brady Foundation, we were VERY jealous when AZ tied us, we want the title back. We want an F MINUS.

mljdeckard
February 8, 2013, 03:11 AM
(And.......I've carried there. :)

Deen Macheen
February 8, 2013, 03:27 AM
Washington state is open carry except for about 4 city ordinances (Vancouver in SW Washington and 3 or 4 cities aroiund and including Seattle). But they are pretty cool about gun ownership. Glad I live here and not in Commie-fornia where I was unfortunately born. :D

Bobson
February 8, 2013, 03:43 AM
Glad I live here [WA] and not in Commie-fornia where I was unfortunately born. :D
You're right about that. I was born in Khalifornistan too, but I was raised in northwest Washington. Its got a healthy dose of liberals and antis, but its definitely got its benefits. Like Mount Baker in January.

Evergreen
February 8, 2013, 04:16 AM
Washington state is open carry except for about 4 city ordinances (Vancouver in SW Washington and 3 or 4 cities aroiund and including Seattle). But they are pretty cool about gun ownership. Glad I live here and not in Commie-fornia where I was unfortunately born. :D
I've heard of several people open carrying in Vancouver, Wa.. Since when did any cities have the right to restrict open carry, especially with a CHL? That is news to me. Even Northwest Firearms forum organizes Open Carry events in the city of Vancouver. At least I thought they were in Vancouver.

Deen Macheen
February 8, 2013, 08:05 AM
I've heard of several people open carrying in Vancouver, Wa.. Since when did any cities have the right to restrict open carry, especially with a CHL? That is news to me. Even Northwest Firearms forum organizes Open Carry events in the city of Vancouver. At least I thought they were in Vancouver.
As long as you have a CHL you can open carry in Vancouver. I was talking about people carrying in city limits with no CHL. Sorry I wasn't clear. The PD may not even make an issue over CHL as long as the gun is holstered. I have not heard of the PD bothering anyone over it, except on private property like Vancouver Mall which is posted for no firearms. So yes you are right about events.

HoosierQ
February 8, 2013, 08:16 AM
Probably Alaska, Kentucky, Oklahoma, my state Indiana is real good. Arizona. Texas is gun friendly but they do have a lot of gun laws. Florida.

My vote for number 1 is probably a two-way tie Alaska and Kentucky.

radiotom
February 8, 2013, 08:19 AM
Not seeing at this point how anybody beats Utah.

breakingcontact
February 8, 2013, 11:46 AM
Texas is gun friendly but they do have a lot of gun laws.

Right. TX has tons of bravado and we like to brag big on our state.

But if you look at it, we're a real old school "law and order" state, not a libertarian minded state like some of the western ones.

JEL
February 8, 2013, 01:14 PM
You're right about that. I was born in Khalifornistan too, but I was raised in northwest Washington. Its got a healthy dose of liberals and antis, but its definitely got its benefits. Like Mount Baker in January.


When it's nice here, it's great, but this year has been a real washout, so much so I was up at a shooting hole in the mountains last weekend and there was almost no snow 2/3 of the way up. Most years we'd be looking at several feet at the base of the entrance making it impossible to get up there unless you're on foot or a snow mobile (maybe).

I see you're in AZ, I am actually looking at relocating there in the near future once I finish the CPA exam. My parents are in Palm Springs and I love the dry weather and the desert, being only a few hour's drive away from them would be nice as they are starting to get a bit older. Glad to see all my ideas about AZ's gun friendliness have be reinforced in this thread.

TwoEyedJack
February 8, 2013, 01:17 PM
Shoooosh! Our laws suck! We do not want anyone else moving here.

Who told you UT doesn't recognize our permits? They have for many years.

You are right. NV, OR and WA are the close ones that don't accept Idaho's.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 01:53 PM
Yes I am... At least as of now... I did grow up in Oregon and live in Washington, as well as lived in Idaho and travelled through Montana. Even Montana is not as gun friendly as Washington. In Montana, I cannot bring a gun into any restaurant that serves alcohol, even if I am not sitting at the bar. In Washington and Oregon, no such BS rules apply. Basically, in Montana you have to leave your gun in your car if you go to a restaurant, as 90% of them serve some type of alcohol.

Evergreen,

Yea I don't know about that. The only time you need a conceal weapons permit in MT is if you're inside city limits. Everywhere else a conceal weapons permit isn't needed. I don't think that is the same for Washington. A conceal weapons permit is needed to conceal anywhere in WA. So in MT a person doesnt really ever have to get a conceal weapons permit. if you're in a city, just make it open carry and even then there are exemptions if you're passing through for hunting and other "outdoor" activities. You talked about leaving a gun in a car in MT, which is illegal to do in WA unless it's in a lock box. No such thing as a "truck gun" for WA. You also can't carry a loaded rifle in a vehicle in WA. That also includes ATVs as well I believe.

The exemption of carry in a place where alcohol is consumed is in regards to conceal carry so, again, a gun would not need to be left in a car, just make it open carry.

Except for the bar restriction on conceal carry in MT, WA appears to be more restrictive than MT.

Batty67
February 8, 2013, 02:00 PM
Virginia is pretty good, shall isse for CC, open carry allowed most places, and no stupid state-level restrictions. It rocks the house (by comparison) as I live in Northern Virginia and given the laws in DC and Maryland.

HoosierQ
February 8, 2013, 02:05 PM
Indiana is ok.
Indiana is very good in fact. We do not have open carry as such. However, our CC permits (called "License to Carry a Handgun") makes no stipulation on how that handgun must or can be carried. You got the license, carry it any way you like...open or concealed. We have none of that business where if somebody sees you CC weapon you're violating. We do have to have the license to carry in a vehicle but again, there is no stipulation on how to carry in that vehicle if licensed. And, that license is lifetime! Not very many gun free zones here either...just the usual ones (court houses, pro sports venues, post offices, and airports is about it). None of that business about no CC in a bar or restaurant although there are plenty of bars that wouldn't let you in if they knew you were carrying but that's gonna be between you and their bouncer...not a legal issue. We have none of that "official state sanctioned no weapons" signs either...that legally prohibits you from carrying if displayed...none of that here.

Indiana probably lacks the ingrained hunting culture that some of our close neighbors have (Kentucky, Michigan, Wisconsin) but there are certainly a lot of hunters here. Thus the slightly lowered participation in an active gun culture. Indiana is very flat and very fertile and thus the place was plowed up as fast as they could. So lots and lots of farmers back in the old days had guns but they were not the dedicated hunters in most cases that we see in the western states for example.

But as far as freedom goes vis-a-vis firearms, Indiana is really good, the police are not a problem for the lawful gun owner in just about all the cities including Indianapolis, politicians on both sides of the political aisle are pro-gun, and there are some very good gun shops here.

JohnM
February 8, 2013, 02:09 PM
Wyoming is about as good as it gets.
Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Arizona all know what gun rights are all about.
Open carry has always been legal here. Concealed carry used to require a permit, but we did away with that.
We'd just as soon go along our own way and not be bothered by what outsiders think.

Kristensdaddy
February 8, 2013, 02:13 PM
Georgia should rank pretty high on the list. Shall Issue, open or concealed, state preemption, suppressed stuff ok (maybe even for hunting, depends on final legislation), castle doctrine, stand your ground. Carry in vehicle OK even without permit. Fair amount of reciprocity (SC why won't you play nice).

If we could just carry in church it would be perfect.

Cosmoline
February 8, 2013, 02:14 PM
Alaska's gun laws are great, but our very strong gun culture makes our state the best.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 02:17 PM
Here are the Brady Campaign's state grades as far as gun laws are concerned. For our purposes, the lower the better ;) this is as of 2011:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/stateleg/scorecard/2011/2011_Brady_Campaign_State_Scorecard_Rankings.pdf

Alaska, Arizona and Utah. My Montana is in the next tier with Idaho, Knetucky, Louisiana, Idaho and Oklahoma.

JohnM
February 8, 2013, 02:29 PM
Brady gives us a couple points no one can figure out.
Not that we much care.
That organization ain't too highly thought of in Wyoming.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 02:43 PM
Actually now that you mention it that does seem strange where Wyoming fell. I didn't even notice that it wasn't near the top.

Looking at the grading standards Wyoming was given 4 points for gun dealer regulations (record keeping and inspection by police) and 2 points for no guns on college campuses. Wyoming was "demirited" 2 points for no CCW permit requirement.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/stateleg/scorecard/2011/2011_scoring_system.pdf

9MMare
February 8, 2013, 02:45 PM
You talked about leaving a gun in a car in MT, which is illegal to do in WA unless it's in a lock box. No such thing as a "truck gun" for WA. You also can't carry a loaded rifle in a vehicle in WA. That also includes ATVs as well I believe.

The exemption of carry in a place where alcohol is consumed is in regards to conceal carry so, again, a gun would not need to be left in a car, just make it open carry.

Except for the bar restriction on conceal carry in MT, WA appears to be more restrictive than MT.

When I go out to a restaurant (that serves alcohol) with friends I do not NOT want to OC. So much for 'concealed means concealed,' I'd be outed forever. Sometimes, it makes a difference in whether the law is relevant to you in common usage, rather than something like silencers being legal.

As for needing a lock box in a car in WA...is that a new law? I'm not aware of it.

Bobson
February 8, 2013, 02:46 PM
If we could just carry in church it would be perfect.
Any idea on the reasoning behind not being allowed to carry at church? I've never heard of that being a restricted place.

Crashola
February 8, 2013, 02:49 PM
I have no real complaints about Idaho. Although I'm a little disappointed in the number of states that will accept our CCW Permits. I have a friend who is an Idaho resident who did manage to get a Utah permit and his is recognized by more states.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 02:50 PM
It was referring to loaded weapons:

RCW 9.41.050:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

I miss read it, it must be locked in the car. Still not required in MT though.

RCW 77.15.460 talks about loaded rifles in vehicles.

WA also keeps records on ammunition purchases.

9MMare
February 8, 2013, 02:55 PM
It was referring to loaded weapons:

RCW 9.41.050:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

I miss read it, it must be locked in the car. Still not required in MT though.

WA also keeps records on ammunition purchases.

At Wally World? Really?

And it's your loss if you're dumb enough to leave your firearm iin plain view n an unlocked vehicle....I dont see that as a restriction that would affect me. I dont think that needs to be a law for most people, lol.

9MMare
February 8, 2013, 02:58 PM
How does 'keeping records on ammo sold' work?

I wasnt aware of that....I buy ammo online, I buy it at Walmart, I buy it as the local gun store occasionally....they record that separately and send it somewhere?

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 02:59 PM
A restriction is a restriction and WA is more restrictive than MT.

What is WA definition of conceal carry? Would a gun in a backpack be considered conceal carry? Fanny pack?

9MMare
February 8, 2013, 03:06 PM
A restriction is a restriction and WA is more restrictive than MT.

What is WA definition of conceal carry? Would a gun in a backpack be considered conceal carry? Fanny pack?

You seem to have turned this into a pissing contest. I'm not defensive about WA St's gun laws. Nor were my replies.

You win the award! MT wins! @_@

Edit: If you interpreted my 'if you're dumb' enough comment to apply to you, then it was not meant that way. It was a general statement. As in 'anyone dumb enough' I guess I should have worded it that way.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 03:08 PM
I'm not the one that started comparing WA to Mt ;)

It was brought up, I've lived in both states, so I offered some comments. No offense intended.

radiotom
February 8, 2013, 03:22 PM
Can somebody compare Arizona and Utah?

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 03:27 PM
The Brady Campaign hates both of them equally :)

Shaver
February 8, 2013, 03:40 PM
Montana is pretty cool about guns but the best part is NO SALES TAX...If I buy a gun for say....$599.99 and give the store $600.00 I get a penny back..Plus I only have to travel a few miles to let the lead fly...

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 03:50 PM
The only thing that concerns me about MT is our habit of electing democrats. Even though most democrats from MT would be considered right wing extremists in other places.

Evergreen
February 8, 2013, 04:16 PM
Evergreen,

Yea I don't know about that. The only time you need a conceal weapons permit in MT is if you're inside city limits. Everywhere else a conceal weapons permit isn't needed. I don't think that is the same for Washington. A conceal weapons permit is needed to conceal anywhere in WA. So in MT a person doesnt really ever have to get a conceal weapons permit. if you're in a city, just make it open carry and even then there are exemptions if you're passing through for hunting and other "outdoor" activities. You talked about leaving a gun in a car in MT, which is illegal to do in WA unless it's in a lock box. No such thing as a "truck gun" for WA. You also can't carry a loaded rifle in a vehicle in WA. That also includes ATVs as well I believe.

The exemption of carry in a place where alcohol is consumed is in regards to conceal carry so, again, a gun would not need to be left in a car, just make it open carry.

Except for the bar restriction on conceal carry in MT, WA appears to be more restrictive than MT.
Once you have a CHL in WA you have about the same amount (even more, perhaps) of freedom to carry as you do in Montana. The CHL in WA is as easy as going to the Sheriff and giving them a check and getting fingerprinted. Personally, I like having the freedom to carry while I am in a restaurant or even a coffeeshop that serves alcohol. That is a big strike against Montana for me. Also, I only like open carrying in the wilderness. Considering, I never saw anyone open carry a gun into a restaurant in Montana, I don't know how comfortable I'd feel doing that. I am a guy who doesn't like drawing attention to myself.

I have heard you could carry a loaded rifle in your car in Montana. When they say loaded, do they actually mean chambered? I'm assuming the WA law says you need to separate the rifle from the ammo and have the rifle cased. This means, if I needed quick access to my rifle I can still get it and load it. This is definitely a benefit of Montana, but still not as much of a benefit as being able to CC in restaurants. It is easier and quicker for me to load my cased rifle then to take out my CCW in a public place and put it in my car while I eat and then come back to my car and put back on my CCW.

Don't get me wrong about Montana though, it's a beautiful state. I enjoyed the Flathead and Bitteroot valleys and Glacier National Park. It is just that I feel I have more freedom with my gun rights then in Montana. I never have to worry about committing a criminal offense for walking into the wrong business that may serve alcohol here in Washington. I also never saw anyone open carrying in the towns of Montana like I do here in Washington. Although, I was only there for 3 weeks or so.

savanahsdad
February 8, 2013, 04:20 PM
wow 4 pages and no one said Wisconsin yet ?

first off , any state that lets local laws over ride state laws is not a gun friendly STATE,, IMO , I would hate to think that if I cross a county line or city limits line I would become an outlaw, a friendly STATE should be the whole STATE.

WI :
CCW =, tazers, stun-guns, clubs, knives, pepper spray, handguns,and no 1000' gun free zone with a CCW, but you can't on school grounds , just up to it ,

open carry ok with one in the tube, but not in bars , or gun free school zones,
open carry in cars OK ,fully loaded (cock & lock)

no CCW class IF you have past a Hunter safty class or you have served in the military

Full auto friendly.

Supperssor friendly

gun show friendly

high cap friendly


not sure how we got a score of 3 from the morons at brady same as FL ?

Black Butte
February 8, 2013, 04:25 PM
The South Side of Chicago.

mljdeckard
February 8, 2013, 04:44 PM
The main edge AZ has over UT is that they beat us to Constitutional carry.

For me personally, I would have to weigh two opposites. Utah allows carry in schools, but allows churches to list themselves on the BCI web site as off-limits to carry. The only one that has done so is the LDS church. So, if you are LDS, as I am, you can carry to pick your kids up from school, but not to church. AZ is the opposite. You can carry to church, but not to schools. So the question becomes, would I rather carry at school or at church?

razorback2003
February 8, 2013, 04:53 PM
Utah, New Hampshire, Alabama, Mississippi. All those states you can carry LEGALLY in K-12 schools and of course colleges with the appropriate license.

mljdeckard
February 8, 2013, 04:55 PM
(And I grew up 4 miles from the AZ border, I have spent plenty of time in both. One of life's simple pleasures is to head out to the AZ strip with three days' worth of supplies, and just see what happens. :)

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 05:00 PM
Evergreen,

I will have to do some checking to see MT supreme court rulings but the statute in question references "rooms" and I think there's a reason it doesn't say "building". My interpretation, restaurants are fine, bars not so much. Ill do some checking and see if the courts have ruled. Ive never had an issue carrying in restuarants but I'd be exempt anyway so ive never worried about it. Also from my reading the definition of "conceal carry" is different between the two states. Washington says that it is concealed if it's on your person while MT specifically says "covered by an article of clothing". So stick it in a back pack/ fanny pack you're good. The point being, whether you decide to go OC, or put it in a backpack, you'd never have to leave a gun in the car.

There are no regulations in MT regarding to rifles in vehicles. Loaded or unloaded. It's hard to compare MT and WA CCW laws when in MT you don't need a CCW in 90% of the State. And even inside city limits you don't if you're going hiking or something.

I was born and raised in Seattle. I still consider it home, but having lived in MT for 5 years now, I have to say it's more "gun friendly". I am surprised though just how gun friendly WA is.

Cesiumsponge
February 8, 2013, 05:07 PM
WA also keeps records on ammunition purchases.

No, it doesn't. Not sure where that idea came from. Gun shop lore?

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 05:15 PM
Cesiumsponge,

I apologize, I havent figured out the "quote" feature yet. According to the Brady Campaign info WA does. It also says that there is an "extended 3 day limit for background checks"

In MT, I've never had to go through a background check when purchasing a firearm. Is it the same in WA? If you have a CCW they waive the background?

Voyager
February 8, 2013, 05:52 PM
Can somebody compare Arizona and Utah?
Arizona is tied with Alaska as the worst(meaning the best)gun control states in the union! 0-points granted from the Brady campaign.

Outlaw Man
February 8, 2013, 06:57 PM
A couple years ago I made a spreadsheet comparing all 50 states' gun laws (CCW, NFA ownership, etc), assigning numerical values compared to a "perfect score," based on what was most important to me. It was a pain in the arse to maintain with all of the law changes, so it's long since out of date (i.e. no inclusion of Wyoming's Constitutional Carry), but at the time Alaska was at the top with Arizona slightly behind.

If I remember correctly, I counted off a tad for Vermont since they didn't have a CCW permit available - meaning a resident couldn't carry in another state without a non-resident license. It also means they can't use their permit instead of a NICS check.

I wish it was up to date...

Cesiumsponge
February 8, 2013, 07:12 PM
A NICS check is mandatory on all firearms purchased on a 4473 at a FFL across the entire country. There are no additional special background checks in WA state to my knowledge. I've only ever seen/heard gun store employees call NICS. I am not aware of any "extended 3 day limit for background checks". I don't even know what that is and since I don't run a gun store, I can't vouch for what additional regulations a FFL dealer must follow. I believe there is a state-level 5-day waiting period for handgun purchases but the period is waived with a CPL. I've always had a CPL so I've never experienced this.

I don't even know where the ammo record thing comes from. Not even CA and NY have that kind of legislation. Thursday45, you said you lived in Seattle, WA. Did you move away before you were of legal age to purchase a firearm?

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 07:41 PM
Cesiumsponge,

Your guess is as good as mine. my info is from the Brady Campaign but I wouldnt accept their word as gospel. It's listed though in their study.

I moved out of Seattle when I was 23. The NICS check is not mandatory for MT:


45-8-330. (Temporary) Exemption of concealed weapon permittee from federal handgun purchase background check and waiting period. A person possessing a concealed weapon permit is:
(1) considered to have a permit constituting completion of the background check required by 18 U.S.C. 921 through 925A; and
(2) exempt from that act's 5-day waiting period for the purchase of a handgun. (Subsections (1) and (2) terminate on the elimination of federal statutory or case law requirements--sec. 5, Ch. 408, L. 1995.)

Like I said, I've never had to have a NICS check when I purchased any of my firearms in MT.

Ehtereon11B
February 8, 2013, 08:07 PM
I would say VT. Having lived there for about 6 years, I amassed almost all my firearms living there without any issues buying or carrying. Was quiet the pain when I wanted to go to NY or NH with no VT permit.

JohnM
February 8, 2013, 08:43 PM
4 points for gun dealer regulations (record keeping and inspection by police)

Thing is, there's never been such laws in Wyoming.
We're battling the carry in schools thing right now. but some teachers here are as badly misinformed as everywhere.
That Brady thing is a joke. They need to be belittled and harassed as often as possible.

Sam Cade
February 8, 2013, 08:47 PM
A NICS check is mandatory on all firearms purchased on a 4473 at a FFL across the entire country.

Some states allow CCW/CCDW license holders to skip the check at the point of sale.

In KY you fill out the 4473, flash the card and walk out the door.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/brady-law/permit-chart.html

JohnM
February 8, 2013, 08:54 PM
In KY you fill out the 4473, flash the card and walk out the door.

We have the same system here, one of the reasons some here get the regular state permit card, even though you don't need a permit anywhere inside the state.

Cesiumsponge
February 8, 2013, 08:54 PM
Neat, I was not aware of that. Thanks for the knowledge; I stand corrected! The feds don't mind it? Or there isn't anything they can do about it?

Sam Cade
February 8, 2013, 09:00 PM
The feds don't mind it?

A background check is required prior to the issuance of a CCW/CCDW in most states. Presenting the license proves that the carrier has already been vetted and isn't a prohibited person.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 09:02 PM
Sam Cade,

Yea I don't know the process of acquiring a conceal weapons permit in MT. Mine was given to me when I was hired by my employer so I've never gotten one the traditional way. Reading the application process there is no mention of a background check though. But having never gone through the process I can't say for sure.

It's really nice though especially in times of panic not having to worry about hold ups because of the amount of NICS checks going on.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 09:45 PM
Is Salt Lake City liberal leaning like most all major metropolitan areas?

Evergreen
February 8, 2013, 09:57 PM
Cesiumsponge,

Your guess is as good as mine. my info is from the Brady Campaign but I wouldnt accept their word as gospel. It's listed though in their study.

I moved out of Seattle when I was 23. The NICS check is not mandatory for MT:


45-8-330. (Temporary) Exemption of concealed weapon permittee from federal handgun purchase background check and waiting period. A person possessing a concealed weapon permit is:
(1) considered to have a permit constituting completion of the background check required by 18 U.S.C. 921 through 925A; and
(2) exempt from that act's 5-day waiting period for the purchase of a handgun. (Subsections (1) and (2) terminate on the elimination of federal statutory or case law requirements--sec. 5, Ch. 408, L. 1995.)

Like I said, I've never had to have a NICS check when I purchased any of my firearms in MT.
There is virtually no waiting period in WA for guns. I have purchased various rifles and handguns in WA or have had them transferred via FFL and I have never had to wait more than 10-15 min. The only longer wait I had is when I bought an rifle at Wholesale Sports during the gun rush after the AWB news and even then the check was just 25 minutes.

The only waiting period is for a handgun and that is only if you don't have a CHL. If you have a CHL you walk out the door with it usually within 10 or 20 mintues (as long as the federal NICS check takes). The only reason they do this to people is that the state government wants their $50 or $60, because Washington doesn't have a state income tax.

It seems MOntana has less restrictive laws in regards to those who don't have a permit, but considering how easy it is to get a CWP/CHL in Washington, I find it a moot point. Not having a NICS check is a great thing, however, are you sure about this? They told me Idaho didn't have a NICS check when I lived there for Idaho CHL holders, so then I buy a gun at the Cabela's Black Friday sale and what do they do? A NICS Check! I said, hey, I have an Idaho CHL, I paid the money. They told me they still had to run the NICS on me, but don't store any records. I was very confused.

Montana also has its fair share of liberals who are imports like here in Washington.

Montana actually has way more taxes than Washington and the cost of living is about equal, but the wages are just a fraction what you make in Washington. Hence, why I decided to live in Washington over Montana. As both states have a lot going for them scenery and culture-wise.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 10:06 PM
Evergreen, I obviously struck a nerve. That wasn't my intention. I'm not sure what taxes and scenery have to do with whether a state is gun friendly or not. I give WA credit, it's way more gun friendly than one would believe with King County being found within its borders. If I still lived in WA I'd be very comfortable with its gun laws, I just wouldn't say it's more gun friendly than MT that's all. Me saying that I believe MT is more gun friendly isn't me saying WA is not gun friendly. Again, I'd have no problem living in WA as far as gun laws goes. I left Seattle for it's other..... Issues :)

We'll have to hold discussions on taxes and cost of living for another thread ;) I disagree btw.

mljdeckard
February 8, 2013, 10:22 PM
SLC does lean more to the left that the rest of the state. They consistently cough up psychotic mayors, because it's the only seat the dems can consistently control in the state. (The last one tried to defy the state's pre-emption law by banning OC, it didn't last long.) It's heck and gone from say, Chicago or NYC, but yes it is notably more liberal than the rest of the state.

This is why most of us live close enough to visit, but far enough away to not have to live with the crazy. Out here in Tooele, I'm 20 min from SLC to the east, but there's nothing but desert playground between me and the NV border 100 miles to the west.

Thursday45
February 8, 2013, 10:33 PM
Thanks mljdeckard. Missoula is the same way. I would say Montana is more libertarian than either conservative or liberal but Missoula is as liberal as they come though. What is it about large cities being left leaning?

David White
February 8, 2013, 10:39 PM
Vermont maybe?

Right on brother! No permit system, open or concealed carry with no issues (stay away from Rutland though!).

Fill out your 4473(?) and off you go! Lock and load and stick it in your pants.

God I love Vermont!

nwilliams
February 8, 2013, 10:40 PM
Arizona gets my vote.

mljdeckard
February 8, 2013, 10:41 PM
Out here, it is where they concentrate because they can't get a toe hold in the rest of the state. There are other liberal clusters, most notably National Park towns like Springdale and Moab, where uranium mining dried up overnight and there was a vacuum to be filled by mountain bike guides and salespersons of various art forms whose appeal is far beyond my uncultured palate. But they are too small to have a lot of impact.

Sauer Grapes
February 8, 2013, 11:07 PM
I would have said Pa until some ''whack job'' is trying to introduce a AWB. Time to get out my pen set again and burn up some emails.

Malamute
February 8, 2013, 11:58 PM
Can somebody compare Arizona and Utah?

One funny quirk about Utah, when open carrying you are supposed (last I knew) to have an empty chamber under the hammer and the next round into rotation with a revolver, and an empty chamber with an auto pistol.

Weird. Hope they have done away with that.


Looking at the grading standards Wyoming was given 4 points for gun dealer regulations (record keeping and inspection by police) and 2 points for no guns on college campuses.....

I thought that was interesting, that Wy was given brownie points by brady because they had a law on the books that was basically the same as the federal law, dealers have to keep records? Feds can inspect records by fed law, not sure why its mentioned that local LE can inspect dealer records in Wy.

tacxted
February 8, 2013, 11:59 PM
How does no-one mention ME. Shall-issue CCW, OC, and full NFA
I noticed that too, and i copied a quote from the Maine state consitution

"Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned."

pretty bad a$$ i must say.

mljdeckard
February 9, 2013, 12:11 AM
Re post #118-

Get a permit and don't worry about it. The law pre-dates our carry laws, and permits are so easy to get, no one has thought it was worth it to change it.

Malamute
February 9, 2013, 12:26 AM
Get a permit and don't worry about it. The law pre-dates our carry laws, and permits are so easy to get, no one has thought it was worth it to change it.


Why should I or anyone else have to get a permit to carry just to avoid a weird law? I don't need a permit to carry in other mountain states, so never got one. It would seriously suck to get in trouble (if one didnt know about it) over a law nobody thought was important enough to change, even when realizing it was weird. Utah is in fact pretty good in most regards, just that one little quirk that keeps it from being as truly gun friendly as most mountain states.

While you guys are working on the constitutional carry, get them to toss out that old empty chamber(s) law.

mljdeckard
February 9, 2013, 01:35 AM
Then don't. Live with the law.

Bobson
February 9, 2013, 03:12 AM
This thread seriously needs a list of criteria. Could have settled the issue on the first page and been done with it. Thursday and Evergreen could have avoided their feud, because neither Montana nor Washington would be in the top five. :neener:

Evergreen
February 9, 2013, 03:30 AM
This thread seriously needs a list of criteria. Could have settled the issue on the first page and been done with it. Thursday and Evergreen could have avoided their feud, because neither Montana nor Washington would be in the top five. :neener:

:rolleyes:

Maybe the Top 3 :p

In reality, there isn't a lot of 100% gun friendly states... Perhaps Alaska.. Even the state of Vermont, that people loved so much on this thread I hear is trying to issue Assault Weapon Bans in their larger cities, which aren't too large, considering it is in Vermont.


I will say, if you are a person with a collection of 50 Short Barrel Rifles or if you must have a loaded rifle in your truck, Washington is obviously not for you.

What I was trying to say, is Washington is probably the most gun friendly state where you can be surrounded by amazing scenery, endless outdoor activities and actually find a good paying job and an affordable place to live. In turn, this will help fund your gun hobby and bring inner happiness and joy.

Trust me, part of me would love to just pack my bags and live in the wilderness of Montana, Utah or Wyoming if it was feasible.

psyopspec
February 9, 2013, 03:33 AM
As a person who has lived in or traveled to most of these United States in the last decade, AZ is the single best place to be an in-resident or visiting gun owner, shooter, hunter, and CCWer in my experience. Two get honorable mentions, AK and VT. Anything beyond that and you're jumping through unnecessary state level hoops.

Full disclosure: After reading multiple responses to the beginning of this thread from those biased toward their own less than gun-friendly states, I did not read the other 100 or so replies. I get it, and I used to be one of these folks until a little travel changed my mind.

Bobson
February 9, 2013, 03:44 AM
What I was trying to say, is Washington is probably the most gun friendly state where you can be surrounded by amazing scenery, endless outdoor activities and actually find a good paying job and an affordable place to live. In turn, this will help fund your gun hobby and bring inner happiness and joy.

Trust me, part of me would love to just pack my bags and live in the wilderness of Montana, Utah or Wyoming if it was feasible.
I was just messing with you man. I lived an hour north of Seattle from age 4-18, then again for a year when I was 22, and I loved it there. I still love Washington, and if I could move everything I have (including school, job, church, friends/family, everything but Arizona itself) to that same part of Washington, my God I'd do it in a heartbeat. I've seen a lot of America; not most of it, but I've been to each of the four corners, spent time on each coast, time on both the northern and southern borders, and spent time in the midwest. I've been to Germany, Ireland, Turkey, Kuwait, Qatar, and Iraq. There's a lot I haven't seen or experienced, but I've seen and experienced a whole lot more of the world than the average American in his mid-twenties.

Washington is, IMVHO, the most beautiful place on Earth.

Evergreen
February 10, 2013, 06:33 AM
I was just messing with you man. I lived an hour north of Seattle from age 4-18, then again for a year when I was 22, and I loved it there. I still love Washington, and if I could move everything I have (including school, job, church, friends/family, everything but Arizona itself) to that same part of Washington, my God I'd do it in a heartbeat. I've seen a lot of America; not most of it, but I've been to each of the four corners, spent time on each coast, time on both the northern and southern borders, and spent time in the midwest. I've been to Germany, Ireland, Turkey, Kuwait, Qatar, and Iraq. There's a lot I haven't seen or experienced, but I've seen and experienced a whole lot more of the world than the average American in his mid-twenties.

Washington is, IMVHO, the most beautiful place on Earth.
YOu are right about Washington being the most beautiful place in the world. On a clear day in Tacoma seeing Mount Rainier towering on one side and the jagged, snow-capped Olympics over the Puget Sound on the other side still has me struck with awe. I have seen the Matterhorn in Switzerland and Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania with my own eyes, but I still enjoy the view of Rainier from my house even more.

I hope you come back.

I am a bit biased in writing this as I feel the more gun friendly people who come to Washington will make the state even better and more gun friendly. Many of us dream of living in some exotic places where you can open carry your loaded rifles anywhere you go, but sadly, not many of these places you can make a living and survive with a majority of jobs out there. Washington is a state that still has a strong economy, as well as a lot of jobs in the white and blue collar sectors. It is a gun friendly state that does not have overly restrictive gun laws. That in my mind, makes it the friendliest, as people who are not retired or wealthy, can actually feasibly move here.

The more Washington resident High-Roaders the better. :D

curlymaple42
February 10, 2013, 08:19 AM
Maine is pretty good. Even VT has certain Towns you can't carry in, like Burlington! And Berry, although not sure why Berry is worth going to. Lol. Maine runs the risk if the liberals screwing things up though, around Portland. See, Maine and Oregon both have a Portland and they are both full of liberals!

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk 2

carbine85
February 10, 2013, 09:44 AM
I didn't read the whole thread but Ohio is actually pretty good. We have CCW, open carry and lots of gun show shows. We do have a 30 round mag limit but that's never enforced unless someone did something stupid as far as I can tell.

splattergun
February 10, 2013, 11:59 AM
As far as I heard Utah doesn't have Castle Doctrine or a Stand Your Ground Law. That is a major strike in the world of gun friendliness as far as I am concerned.
Utah is Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground. Also, your personal automobile is considered an extension of your home, CCW not required to carry in your vehicle. Utah is open carry, CCW is shall issue. Constitutional carry was supposed to be considered this year, but I don't know the status of that bill.

Also I have frequently seen open carry in SE Idaho.

captain awesome
February 10, 2013, 12:38 PM
You know, as much as I hate the heat here in AZ, Our good gun laws really soften the blow. Its a trade off, if you can handle hotter than hell summers, here is your reward.

The only bad things I can think of is there is still no carrying in a school zone or church without a ccw, and no carrying in government facilities. They still let businesses post NO GUN signs and they are protected and enforced by a revised statute to do so, which is unfortunate, because I like shopping at Costco, and eating at Outback Steak House. We also have to disclose to an officer if we are carrying if they ask, and you have to be 21 to carry concealed.

And they haven't said "screw you" to the feds and said "NO gun laws what so ever are enforced here (NFA, included), and anyone trying to will be charged with a felony, and be forced to pay extravagant reparations to their victim." I can dream can't I?

Racinfan83
February 10, 2013, 02:02 PM
Missouri is not too bad. (tie for 39th on the Brady hate list):D
We have Shall Issue, no waiting unless the BR check discovers something they want to further investigate (has not happened to me...yet), no mag restrictions, we honor all other CCW permits + have the "peaceable journey" law that allows you to carry through the state on a "peaceable journey", open carry (unless restricted by local law), There is a significant list of places that CC is not allowed - but if you are discovered and don't cause a stink about it, and leave, there is nothing more they can do to you. We have the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground. There is a training requirement for your CCW liscense (which I think is a good idea anyway). So far - the libtards in the Eastern part of the state (St Louis) haven't messed with any gun laws - YET. I think that even THEY realize that there are so many guns in the hands of criminals in St Louie that to do anything to disarm the public would invite chaos....:rolleyes:

Bobson
February 10, 2013, 05:53 PM
The only bad things I can think of [about AZ] is there is still no carrying in a church without a ccw
Are you sure about that?? I don't remember ever seeing this in the title 13.

chaddy
February 10, 2013, 10:23 PM
How bout n.c.

Bobson
February 10, 2013, 10:26 PM
The only bad things I can think of [about AZ] is there is still no carrying in a church without a ccwAre you sure about that?? I don't remember ever seeing this in the title 13.
Upon further investigation through the ARS 13-3102 (Misconduct Involving Weapons) (http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03102.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS), I don't see anything that lists a church as a prohibited place to carry, regardless of whether or not a person has a concealed-carry permit. The same section does list schools, nuclear and hydroelectric power plants, and polling places (on the day of election) as prohibited places. I would expect churches, if applicable, to be listed in the same area.

curlymaple42
February 10, 2013, 10:54 PM
Do you have a citation on that, curley? I'll believe it when I see it! :D

I went to college there and i clearly remember something about that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

ThirtyOughtSix
February 10, 2013, 11:50 PM
Virginia has pretty decent gun laws. OC is allowed, CC is shall issue, full NFA, etc.

9MMare
February 11, 2013, 12:11 AM
Maine is pretty good. Even VT has certain Towns you can't carry in, like Burlington! And Berry, although not sure why Berry is worth going to. Lol. Maine runs the risk if the liberals screwing things up though, around Portland. See, Maine and Oregon both have a Portland and they are both full of liberals!

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk 2

Really? There are towns in VT where you cant carry? CC or OC or both?

How do the laws work that that is allowed? Our state constitution prevents that here.

9MMare
February 11, 2013, 12:14 AM
Missouri is not too bad. (tie for 39th on the Brady hate list):D
We have Shall Issue, no waiting unless the BR check discovers something they want to further investigate (has not happened to me...yet), no mag restrictions, we honor all other CCW permits + have the "peaceable journey" law that allows you to carry through the state on a "peaceable journey", open carry (unless restricted by local law), There is a significant list of places that CC is not allowed - but if you are discovered and don't cause a stink about it, and leave, there is nothing more they can do to you. We have the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground. There is a training requirement for your CCW liscense (which I think is a good idea anyway). So far - the libtards in the Eastern part of the state (St Louis) haven't messed with any gun laws - YET. I think that even THEY realize that there are so many guns in the hands of criminals in St Louie that to do anything to disarm the public would invite chaos....:rolleyes:

I like the sound of the 'peaceable journey law'.....what is that?

9MMare
February 11, 2013, 12:17 AM
yes, but how many of those "clear days" do you have in Washington each year? :-) Me, I move twice a year, about 200 miles and 5,000 ft difference in elevation, in NM, like the birds do. I have no use for either the cold or the heat. There is no such thing as "gun-friendly", or even "rights-respecting" state that is heavily populated.

Our summers are perfect....sunny for days on end, 70 degrees, and no humidity.

As for clear days, hard rains arent that common and you can do alot in the mist....I do, have a farm to run and am out in it all the time, no problem.

Even now, my nights are usually above 38 degrees...no freezing.

It's the mud that get to me.

4570Tom
February 11, 2013, 12:49 AM
Vermont has no restrictions regarding carrying, be it open or concealed, with the exception of places like schools, state buildings, courts, and such. There are some towns/cities that have discharge ordinances.

The AWB proposed for Burlington is quite restrictive and essentially prohibits the possession of certain semi-auto firearms. The city council proposed the ban but in order for it to pass several steps have to happen. Voters in Burlington have to approve it, and the Vermont legislature has to vote in favor of it (passage of the ban would result in a change to the city's charter, and all city charter changes need legislative approval). So it is far from a done deal, though disturbing that it has even gotten this far. Interestingly, the Burlington police department was doing their firearms training at a fish and game club in another part of the state. Following the Burlington City council's recent proposal, that fish and game club declined to allow the BPD to continue to train there.

There is no AWB proposal in Barre. Every year another local fish and game club sponsors a gun show at the Barre Civic Center, a city owned building. Shortly after Sandy Hook the mayor of Barre asked the fish and game club to prohibit "assault weapons" at the gun show. The fish and game club politely declined to have any restrictions and that was the end of it. But many of the state's mayor have signed onto MAIG.

A Vermont state senator proposed a statewide AWB, but withdrew it shortly after due to a lack of support.

A Vermont state representative has proposed magazine size restrictions, along with requiring training in order to carry concealed. This one is still floating around, and, surprisingly to me, has not generated the vocal opposition any of the AWB proposals have.

So how gun friendly is Vermont? It remains to be seen. The demographics of the state continue to change, but if you get outside of Burlington and the rest of Chittenden County you can find a lot of 2nd Amendment supporters. One of our biggest problems now is that we haven't had a lot of anti-gun legislation in the past and we are complacent. Hopefully getting hammered on all sides will be a wake up call.

C0untZer0
February 11, 2013, 12:54 AM
I see that no one said Illinois...

Evergreen
February 11, 2013, 01:40 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am not moving to the Northeast.. If it isn't the weather, it is just the close proximity of the all the Big Government states that need to regulate every little facet of how we live our lives. Also, anybody who thinks the weather is bad in the Northwest hasn't been to the Northeast.

The fact that Vermont is working so hard to pass so much anti-gun legislation and is even making progress in the area, really worries me about how "gun-friendly" it truly is.


Washington has great weather.. But, I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, so I am use to mud, grey and drizzle.. However, we have 3 months of sunshine with a mild, dry Summer. The rest of the year is moderate with a bit of drizzle. The mountains are full of snow and not far, but the valleys are usually clear. Eastern Washington is rougher with weather, but not as bad a many parts of the country. While the rest of country is being gobbled up by hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, snowstorms, its 50F with just a little bit of drizzle over here.

My shooting range is well equipped for the rain and is totally covered. You could be shooting on a rainy day and not think twice about it.


I see that no one said Illinois...
Actually, somebody on this thread did mention South Chicago is quite gun friendly. However, maybe he wasn't referring to those who legally possess them. :p

Racinfan83
February 11, 2013, 07:20 PM
Here is the best I can find on MO vehicle laws regarding "peaceable journey":
""Peaceable journey

Missouri has a "peaceable journey" under Missouri Statutes 571.030 which law says it is legal to carry the weapon in a passenger compartment of a vehicle as long as (1) the concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, (2) the person is 21 or older, or (3) the person is in his dwelling unit (e.g. RV) or upon premises over which the person has possession/authority/control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state.[6]

The same applies (it is not a crime) when the person is 21 and possesses an exposed firearm for the lawful pursuit of game.""

Basically you can have a gun of any type inside your vehicle as long as you are 21 or older, legal to own a gun..and not shooting out of the car :D:D:D

2bfree
February 11, 2013, 10:36 PM
Washington, if it was not for the new Governor stating on his 2nd day in office we need more gun control and the legislator looking to favor increased back ground checks ( no more ftf ) That said, it took 2 weeks to get my CPL and living 2 miles from the oldest gun club in Washington (I shoot at weekly ) I still like Washington.

chaddy
February 11, 2013, 11:20 PM
How bout N.C.

Okiegunner
February 11, 2013, 11:37 PM
Obviously, I'm a little bit biased for Oklahoma. Not THE most gun friendly state, but I'd bet its in the top 1/2 dozen. As of last November we are open carry.

41
February 12, 2013, 01:11 AM
Alabama is good, but I wouldn't say that it's the best. However we have several bills in the legislature right now to move us up a couple of spots. Hopefully they pass.

9MMare
February 12, 2013, 03:33 AM
How bout N.C.

Doesnt NC have zero carry anywhere alcohol is served? Not even restaurants?

That is a big negative for me....cant go out to dinner with friends in many places? Thankfully not like that in WA.

Racinfan83
February 12, 2013, 01:22 PM
The AWB proposed for Burlington is quite restrictive and essentially prohibits the possession of certain semi-auto firearms. The city council proposed the ban but in order for it to pass several steps have to happen. Voters in Burlington have to approve it, and the Vermont legislature has to vote in favor of it (passage of the ban would result in a change to the city's charter, and all city charter changes need legislative approval). So it is far from a done deal, though disturbing that it has even gotten this far.

Now THERE is where Missouri is better. Missouri has a law that cities and towns can only regulate two things when it comes to firearms - "discharge within city limits" and "open carry". All other laws must be Statewide... That is probably why the dump of St Louis hasn't tried to be like chicago....:rolleyes:

justice06rr
February 13, 2013, 11:00 PM
I think Alaska has got to be the most gun-friendly states, if not the top 2.

hacksaw
February 14, 2013, 12:06 AM
Didnt read all of the responses...but gotta toss South Carolina out there just in case nobody else has. Shall issue, NFA..pretty much anything you can ask for in terms of 2A freedoms. :)

David White
February 14, 2013, 01:25 AM
Maine is pretty good. Even VT has certain Towns you can't carry in, like Burlington! And Berry, although not sure why Berry is worth going to. Lol. Maine runs the risk if the liberals screwing things up though, around Portland. See, Maine and Oregon both have a Portland and they are both full of liberals!

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk 2

There is no restriction on carrying in Burlington. I should know as I carry openly every time I'm there.
Open carry and concealed carry is allowed STATE WIDE. Towns can only restrict you for discharging your weapon, nothing else, period.
I am WAITING for some duchebag in Vermont to call me out for open carry.

(Of course by duchebag, I mean the cops!)

Warp
February 14, 2013, 02:05 AM
Indiana is very good in fact. We do not have open carry as such. However, our CC permits (called "License to Carry a Handgun") makes no stipulation on how that handgun must or can be carried. You got the license, carry it any way you like...open or concealed. We have none of that business where if somebody sees you CC weapon you're violating. We do have to have the license to carry in a vehicle but again, there is no stipulation on how to carry in that vehicle if licensed. And, that license is lifetime! Not very many gun free zones here either...just the usual ones (court houses, pro sports venues, post offices, and airports is about it). None of that business about no CC in a bar or restaurant although there are plenty of bars that wouldn't let you in if they knew you were carrying but that's gonna be between you and their bouncer...not a legal issue. We have none of that "official state sanctioned no weapons" signs either...that legally prohibits you from carrying if displayed...none of that here.

Indiana probably lacks the ingrained hunting culture that some of our close neighbors have (Kentucky, Michigan, Wisconsin) but there are certainly a lot of hunters here. Thus the slightly lowered participation in an active gun culture. Indiana is very flat and very fertile and thus the place was plowed up as fast as they could. So lots and lots of farmers back in the old days had guns but they were not the dedicated hunters in most cases that we see in the western states for example.

But as far as freedom goes vis-a-vis firearms, Indiana is really good, the police are not a problem for the lawful gun owner in just about all the cities including Indianapolis, politicians on both sides of the political aisle are pro-gun, and there are some very good gun shops here.


Indiana is second to none, ESPECIALLY regarding carry laws.

Shall issue: Yes
Minimum age: 18
Concealed and open: Yes
Places off limits: Almost zero. Schools up to 12th grade, courts/jails, probably nowhere else you'll ever go.
Long gun carry: Unregulated
License costs: $35 for the 4 year, last I knew
Training required: No.
Turn around time: 14 days in my experience
Out of state carry licenses recognized: Yes to ALL (seriously)
Out of country licenses recognized: Yes (seriously)


The only drawbacks are: No handgun carry without the license. But hey, the license is as easy to get as any in the country, as cheap as any in the country, and you only hvae to be 18, and it's good pretty much everywhere in the state once you get it, except the schools up to 12th grade. I lived and carried at all times in IN for several years and only had to leave it in the car to avoid breaking the law ONE TIME.

Didnt read all of the responses...but gotta toss South Carolina out there just in case nobody else has. Shall issue, NFA..pretty much anything you can ask for in terms of 2A freedoms. :)

NEGATIVE.

You guys won't recognize anybody else's licenses.

GAMALOT
February 14, 2013, 11:22 AM
In this order, NY City, Chicago Illinois and Washington D.C.

If you are a Criminal!:neener:

Axel Larson
February 14, 2013, 12:54 PM
Vermont is fighting the new proposed bills. And I do not think they will be pass but that does not mean I am not going to write my senators and reps. Seriously we are pretty gun friendly and hopefully it will stay that way. I mean we have Chittenden county but other than that not bad.

Ranger Roberts
February 14, 2013, 01:58 PM
PA really isn't all to bad. We have OC (though you will be hassled because most cops are not used to seeing it). We have Shall Issue CC and full NFA. The area I live in is not heavily populated at all. Myself and all my neighbors have ranges in our yards. One of the neighbors even has full auto weapons and none of us have ever received a visit from any LEO.

GAMALOT
February 14, 2013, 03:04 PM
PA is just 10 miles from my NY home and very friendly. I have CCWs in my state and it was simple to get one for PA but NY won't give any PA residents the same courtesy.
I was in the PA Sheriff's office just last week and he said they are considering stopping the practice because they have been bombarded ever since all this garbage began.

Ky Larry
February 14, 2013, 03:23 PM
The most gunfriendly state has got to be Kentucky. If it wasn't, we wouldn't lead the nation in background checks.

Ole Coot
February 14, 2013, 07:38 PM
Kentucky in the lower 48. I would have said West Virginia but with our senators and governor kissing the Prez's rear end it kinda makes us look stupid electing them.

Warp
February 14, 2013, 09:35 PM
The most gunfriendly state has got to be Kentucky. If it wasn't, we wouldn't lead the nation in background checks.

False.

What Kentucky does is trust it's licensed carriers less than other states. They run background checks one every person with a carry license literally every month to make sure that they haven't become prohibited in that time.

So, no, you cannot use that information to come to that concluse.

pseudonymity
February 15, 2013, 04:05 PM
Indiana is second to none, ESPECIALLY regarding carry laws.

Shall issue: Yes
Minimum age: 18
Concealed and open: Yes
Places off limits: Almost zero. Schools up to 12th grade, courts/jails, probably nowhere else you'll ever go.
Long gun carry: Unregulated
License costs: $35 for the 4 year, last I knew
Training required: No.
Turn around time: 14 days in my experience
Out of state carry licenses recognized: Yes to ALL (seriously)
Out of country licenses recognized: Yes (seriously)


The only drawbacks are: No handgun carry without the license. But hey, the license is as easy to get as any in the country, as cheap as any in the country, and you only hvae to be 18, and it's good pretty much everywhere in the state once you get it, except the schools up to 12th grade. I lived and carried at all times in IN for several years and only had to leave it in the car to avoid breaking the law ONE TIME.

Hmm, seems pretty second class compared to Vermont.

Shall issue: issue what?
Mininum age: 16 for FTF sales, no minimum age with parental consent (yes, your teen can carry in VT)
Places off limits: schools and state institutions
License costs: state constitution is free to all

Kind of sucks that you can not have a supressor, or you could just take the chance any pay the $25 fine (the BATF may not be happy though).

jstein650
February 15, 2013, 05:25 PM
In reply to Indiana as a good state: As a Hoosier for most of my life, I agree. Pretty darn good on carry permits, lot of gun shows, etc. Plus the DNR is probably among the most progressive (I mean that in a good way) out there. They actually LISTEN to hunters and sportsman and have enacted many good changes regarding seasons and legal weapons for deer that make sense. Having lived in Michigan for a while, I know how blind, deaf, and monolithic such agencies can be.

G'dale Mike
February 15, 2013, 08:13 PM
My experience is in Alabama. Fill out a form and if you arent a felon, you can get a concealed carry permit. Also, u can fill in " unrestricted" in the blank where it asks for a specific pistol and you are good to carry any pistol. So your permit isnt for a particular pistol, but for any pistol you desire to carry. Ga has u jump through hoops, gunner safety classes,etc ,, i believe tenn is also like ga in that tespect

cleardiddion
February 16, 2013, 10:32 AM
Can't beat Wyoming.

Warp
February 16, 2013, 11:25 AM
Hmm, seems pretty second class compared to Vermont.

Shall issue: issue what?
Mininum age: 16 for FTF sales, no minimum age with parental consent (yes, your teen can carry in VT)
Places off limits: schools and state institutions
License costs: state constitution is free to all

Kind of sucks that you can not have a supressor, or you could just take the chance any pay the $25 fine (the BATF may not be happy though).

Can you still get a license if you want one?

Unfortunately you can't be one of the best unless your state will give you a carry license if you desire one, in my opinion, because carrying while traveling through/visiting other states almost always requires a license and, in many cases, requires a license issued by your home state.

I know that the 'blame' for this would be on those other states that require a license, but still...it's a factor.



For the moment that all makes VT very very good. Will you guys be getting any new gun control laws in the wake of Sandy Hook? I recall some pretty major legislation being proposed up there. Any chance of passage?

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