Homemade double barreled muzzle loader.


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Aries-
February 7, 2013, 10:23 PM
ive had a project i have wanted to finish for quite some time. i purchased a worn out (barrels) 10 gauge Damascus side by side hammered shotgun for cheap. i want to line the barrels with either 45cam or 50 call inline muzzle loader barrels.

what i am having trouble with is id like to keep the look of the Damascus barrels. whether it be i re etch them after i have finished or leave them the way they are. the problem comes in with Regulating the barrels.

i have a couple of ways i could do it.
1) i could set the muzzle loader barrels out from the end of the Damascus barrels by 3/4" and make something to regulate the barrels there.

2) i could try and find a way to pop the bottom rib off the barrels so i can put something between the barrels to regulate them. (would need re etching after soldering the rib back on)

3) this way is not what id like to do. but arguably the easiest. cut the shotgun barrels off at the block and not worry about lining the barrels have blued muzzle loader barrels out from the block and solder new ribs between them.

Any idea's would be great. thanks.

and yes by my calculations using just black powder if i used 50cal barrels the thickness would be fine. .45 would be better but the selection of bullets is pitiful compared to .50 call muzzle loader bullets.

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RaceM
February 7, 2013, 10:56 PM
Why not separate sights for each barrel? That'd be the simple yet elegant solution.

I've resurrected a couple old doubles. One was brazed together, no chance of re-regulating that one. The other was soft-soldered. Would have been a lot of work to get that apart, then re-solder and hope the tubes weren't cocked out of plane vertically.

On the Damascus, just shine 'er up good then reblue. The spirals should come back.

Aries-
February 7, 2013, 11:03 PM
i thought of that as well. problem is there needs to be a bit of regulation or the barrels are going to cross at what is it 30-40 yards ?

Jim Watson
February 7, 2013, 11:21 PM
Just line one side and have a Cape Gun.
Unless you just like endless labor and a finished product that weighs a ton.

Aries-
February 7, 2013, 11:26 PM
barrels will be hacked down from 28" to around 24" going to be fairly heavy. but id like the little extra length. possibly 20-22 depending on final weight.

as for a cape gun. as i stated the barrels are shot. they are pitted like mad. they will have a hone run down them to remove what i can of the rust before doing this. the insides look like the surface of the moon. not a shootable gun currently.

StrawHat
February 8, 2013, 10:58 AM
Many years ago, V. M. Starr relined an old hammer 12 gauge to 45-70 for me. The barrels were cut to 25 inches and he regulated them to 80 yards with 300 grain HP bullets. His method was fairly direct. At the muzzle, he drove in wedges to move the liner. When they were hitting as he wanted them, he finisehd adding the solder and cut the wedges flush with the muzzle. Mr Starr was a superb shotgun smith and shooter. He also knew how to solder double barreled shotguns and keep them true. If this is not something you are familiar with, I suggest you either farm this job out to a good double smith or use one of the better grades of epoxy. I also suggest you bush the firing pins. The shotgun shells are loaded to much less presuure than the 45-70. My rifle, built on a twelve gauge gun, weighs 11 pounds loaded. Great to dampen the recoil but not so much fun in the field. Probably why it stays home while my single shots are hunting. If I had it to do over again, I would start with a 16 or 20 gauge gun. I can not imagine how heavy a sleeved 10 bore will end up.

As for the damascus pattern, if they are true damascus, the pattern will be there no matter what you do to the barrels. If they are merely damascus patterned narrels, there is not much you can do to retain the design. Many of the loewer grade shotguns that claimed to have damascus or twist barrels were merel tubes to which a pattern was applied. The new technology on solid barrels was not thought to be as strong as true damascus barrels so arms makers tried to fool the public. from the numbers of them I see, it must have worked.

Best of luck to you.

Aries-
February 8, 2013, 12:18 PM
That was another option i was looking at.

im not to worried about the firing pins as there shouldn't be a heck of a lot of blow back on them using inline 209 primers. its also a 10ga so should be of higher pressure than a 12ga (far from modern pressures. but we shall see)

the gun isnt all that heavy as it is right now. the receiver is a monster. but it is balanced well.

turning the barrels down is going to be the tricky part. as the bore dia is around .775 that leaves .775 - .5 = .275 wall thickness. (.1375 per side) a little thin for lathe work.

i can likely run a adjustable reamer down the shotgun barrels first to open them up just a bit and get rid of and rust pitting. the gun has been sitting in my safe for 3 years. haven't found where to get barrels. was looking at getting 2 spare CVA inline barrels. tougher to get things up here in canada.

Jim Watson
February 8, 2013, 01:14 PM
Maybe you could turn the rifle inserts down, leaving alignment collars at breech, muzzle, and midway. That would save some weight.
That is how Skeet sub-gauge tubes are made, and the old mailorder rifle inserts appeared to contact the shot barrels only at breech and muzzle.

rcmodel
February 8, 2013, 01:20 PM
Have you seen this book?
I have no personal experiance with it.

But it might have some good ideas in it.

http://www.bundukipublishing.com/doublerifle.htm

http://www.brownells.com/books-videos/books/gunsmithing-books/rifle-gunsmithing-books/building-double-rifles-on-shotgun-actions-prod26663.aspx?ttver=2

rc

StrawHat
February 8, 2013, 02:00 PM
Barrel liners can be bought at the dimensions you want.. Starr lined my 12 so it should be doable with a 10. I will caution you, double shotguns are not all equal and the pressure from a 45-70 is going to be a lot of stress on the action.

Here are a couple of sources.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/637/2

T.J.ís, 3652 Neitner Rd., Alexandria, KY
41001, 859-635-5560.

Here is a good read about liners and relining.

http://www.texas-mac.com/Relining_a_Springfield_Trapdoor_Rifle_Barrel.html

Aries-
February 8, 2013, 02:46 PM
that's all well and good. but i don't want it lined to 45-70.

would be lined to .50 cal muzzle loader pressures. which are nowhere near modern .45-70 loads (in general)

the .50 cal liners are to small in dia. need to be .770 not .6875

StrawHat
February 8, 2013, 03:58 PM
Aries-, Sorry, somewhere I got it in my head you were trying for a 50-70. Much of the info will still apply.

Aries-
February 8, 2013, 04:07 PM
the second link you posted doesn't work. comes up problem loading page.

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