.223 ammo


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gibson_es
February 8, 2013, 08:33 PM
Looking to get my first AR with income taxes when it hits the account (who isnt roght mow? Lol and what fun it is to take money the government is sending me amd buy the AR they dont want me to have?)

However i never looked at 223 ammo before. So i dont know what price is normal (not what i am finding right now in sure... $500 for 1000 rounds serms like someone is trying to take advantage...

So i wanna know. What is theave average price for brass cased 223 outside of all this politically based price hiked stuff?

And do u think this eill last long enough that its worth the investment to reload until its back to normal? (Im getting into reloading anyway)

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Gordon
February 8, 2013, 08:39 PM
Actual going rate is under $500 per 1000 currently for the cheap stuff.

chris in va
February 8, 2013, 08:41 PM
Just wait a few months. Components for reloading are sold out too.

Cranky CJ
February 8, 2013, 11:55 PM
$899/1000 around here for Lake City green tip. I don't see it going back to 40 cents/round any time soon, if ever.

I did see some for $292/400 which is like 75 cents/round.

Get the gun, figure out the ammo later. I reload it for about 22 cents a round.

fanchisimo
February 9, 2013, 01:26 AM
Before the panic you could probably get brass cased $350 and up per case, cheap stuff $200 plus per case. Right now demand is higher so prices have mirrored that. Once this AWB, hi-cap, UBC, etc panic passes, prices will go back down... hopefully.

David E
February 9, 2013, 01:42 AM
Looking to get my first AR with income taxes when it hits the account....and what fun it is to take money the government is sending me

You realize they're simply returning your money that you lent them interest free, right?

$500 per K seems like a steal right now.

kerreckt
February 9, 2013, 01:57 AM
Up until the last wacko shot up the school it was going for $300-350/k. Fortunately, I have plenty of primers, powder,brass and bullets so I will try to ride this out. Who knows what the future holds. I kind of expect a large tax on ammo....just got a feeling,.

superdecals
February 9, 2013, 02:26 AM
I've saw people have success at Walmart (even though they limit to 3 boxes per customer per day in most of their stores right now) and ammoman has some every now and then. Cabelas did have some online last week, I think it was around $350-400 for a 1000 but sold out in minutes.

lionking
February 10, 2013, 10:03 AM
It isn't just .223 or 9mm or the popular calibers that feed modern firearms. I just went to three online places and they are out of just about everything to include 44 magnum and mil-surp calibers like 7,65 Argentine.

Ammo of just about any kind has been sucked up and dealers sucked dry. Except the very pricey home defense brands that sell 20 to a box, nobody wants to plink or practice with those.

Unbelievable situation.

BearGriz
February 10, 2013, 10:24 AM
You realize they're simply returning your money that you lent them interest free, right?

While I sort of agree with this generalization, I think you can argue that there is a good chance that the OP is benefitting from the Earned Income Tax Credit. I'm no tax accountant, but my understanding of credits like this one (and it is a huge one!) is that you can only apply them at refund time (not weekly, as the money is withheld).

We could argue whether withholding is ethical to begin with, but that is for another site. In any case, if the OP has done his W4s well, the amount he lent them should be small. Then he gets a bonus (credit) at return time. Again, just my understanding.

Anywho, back to the original point, yes I like the idea of using a government tax credit to buy a personal defense weapon. Though, as others have mentioned, now is not a great time to buy.

Warp
February 10, 2013, 12:07 PM
Actual going rate is under $500 per 1000 currently for the cheap stuff.

uh...what?

Do you have links to these?

Mobuck
February 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
FYI
It's nearly impossible to even buy reloading components for .223 at this time. You're about 2 months too late on every account. With .223 brass going for over $200/K and bullets topping well over $100/K and primers vitually nonexistent, factory ammo @ $7-800/K is worthwhile. I'm not buying any at those prices so I'm just relating what I'm seeing on the internet auctions.

matrem
February 10, 2013, 12:15 PM
In early December XM 193 was selling for $300-$310/1000 locally. A few months ago, I paid $270ish for 1000 PMC Bronze 55 fmj ordering online.
I'm not convinced prices will ever go quite that low again, but in any event, this is not the time to be buying any unless you're desperate.
I'm currently seeing $250ish/500 around here now.

Warp
February 10, 2013, 12:27 PM
In early December XM 193 was selling for $300-$310/1000 locally. A few months ago, I paid $270ish for 1000 PMC Bronze 55 fmj ordering online.
I'm not convinced prices will ever go quite that low again, but in any event, this is not the time to be buying any unless you're desperate.
I'm currently seeing $250ish/500 around here now.

When you say XM193 was selling for $300-$310 locally, I assume that is before tax? Is that actual Federal Lake City XM193 you are referring to? I don't recall anybody reporting prices that low anywhere near December.

Where did you get PMC Bronze online for $270? When?

Those prices sound more like wishful thinking or exaggeration of "good old days".

Where are you currently seeing $250/500? For what? Do they have websites? Accept orders?

I've looked high and low and talked to all kinds of people all over the country and I don't recall any prices/availability that match any of what you are quoting

matrem
February 10, 2013, 12:35 PM
Sportsmans Den in Shelby was selling(or at least advertising it) XM193 for 309 + tax/1000 late last fall.
Natchez Shooters Supply is where I purchased the 1000 PMC Bronze.
EDIT to change 500 to 1000 & add:
The cheapest online link I can find for you is Hornady(not exactly the cheapest) for $299.99/500

www.vanceoutdoors.com

NYGlock
February 10, 2013, 12:39 PM
I traded in my AR when the NY SAFE act was passed. I sold 400 rounds of lake city 5.56 to the gun shop for $200, so $500/case seems like a steal. I bought 1000 rounds from ammoman for $199 during the Bush years - the good old days.

jrdolall
February 10, 2013, 01:01 PM
Academy Sports routinely ran .223 as well as 7.62x39 for $4.19 per box of 20 up through last summer. Every time it hit the ad I would buy 10-20 boxes of the .223. Walmart carried the Tula .223 for $4.99 a box every day so those were at $.25 + tax as late as the fall.
Now you can forget even finding the stuff. I was able to buy 1000 rounds from a private seller a couple of weeks ago at a great price but he bought 500k from an importer and was trying to recoup some of his cash. I have several 1000 rounds of .223 and will just not run through it as fast as normal. My main problem is .22 as we shoot it an awful lot and it is almost as scarce.

Warp
February 10, 2013, 01:04 PM
Sportsmans Den in Shelby was selling(or at least advertising it) XM193 for 309 + tax/1000 late last fall.
Natchez Shooters Supply is where I purchased the 1000 PMC Bronze.
EDIT to change 500 to 1000 & add:
The cheapest online link I can find for you is Hornady(not exactly the cheapest) for $299.99/500

www.vanceoutdoors.com

That's more in line with the current market conditions.

And even then, I don't see it. Do you have a direct link to it?

matrem
February 10, 2013, 01:12 PM
Do you have a direct link to it?
It's in their current flyer (prices good through Feb 28th.
Phone# 614-471-7000 or 740-928-3474

ol' scratch
February 12, 2013, 08:34 PM
When you say XM193 was selling for $300-$310 locally, I assume that is before tax? Is that actual Federal Lake City XM193 you are referring to? I don't recall anybody reporting prices that low anywhere near December.

Where did you get PMC Bronze online for $270? When?

Those prices sound more like wishful thinking or exaggeration of "good old days".

Where are you currently seeing $250/500? For what? Do they have websites? Accept orders?

I've looked high and low and talked to all kinds of people all over the country and I don't recall any prices/availability that match any of what you are quoting
I just picked up LC Green tip and tracer for $70 per 200 rounds 800 of which were sealed in the original LC cans with the tin LC seal on the can in November. You COULD still find some deals until now. They were in M249 SAW magazines linked. I picked up 1400 rounds.

Warp
February 12, 2013, 08:47 PM
I just picked up LC Green tip and tracer for $70 per 200 rounds 800 of which were sealed in the original LC cans with the tin LC seal on the can in November. You COULD still find some deals until now. They were in M249 SAW magazines linked. I picked up 1400 rounds.

I think half of the internet wants in on that deal.

That's a better price than the BEST price that was available in October

matrem
February 12, 2013, 08:55 PM
I think half of the internet wants in on that deal.


Seems to me that somebody who should've known better?
Didn't stock up when they should have. :)

Warp
February 12, 2013, 08:58 PM
Seems to me that somebody who should've known better?
Didn't stock up when they should have. :)

Not everybody can afford to stock up on EVERYTHING all at once. I am happy for you, that you can. That's good. But it doesn't apply to all of us.

Also, nobody could have predicted Newtown.

Queen_of_Thunder
February 12, 2013, 09:21 PM
I've been making a daily trip to Academy to pick up my 1 box allotment of 5.56. For the most part they have had it in stock. All they had today was Winchester at $11.99 for a box of 20. Yes its bit high but its cheaper then what is selling elsewhere.

Warp
February 12, 2013, 09:34 PM
oh, no? guns and ammo magazine was predicting this sort of shortage-outlawing, back before 1968. It was just a question of when, based upon what, Big Brother made his move. We've known, ever since Obama got elected the first time, that big troubles was in the offing if he got reelected. If you bought loaded ammo, in the past 4 years, instead of getting 3-5x as many shots (via reloading components) for the same expense, shame on you.

I apologize for not doing everything the way you want me to.

Skylerbone
February 12, 2013, 09:56 PM
For those looking for brass you might check your local scrap yards. Locally, the price was $2.25/pound. A shooting buddy picked up over 4,500 once fired .223 Rem. cases for just over a C-note. The 1,000 he gave me were roughly 90% R.P. and 10% mixed NATO stamp. After sorting, removing grass clippings and cleaning I had fewer than a dozen rejects.

I had bullets, primers and powder to load a few thousand more but all of my brass was loaded. According to my friend his purchase didn't make a dent in the available supply.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=179670&stc=1&d=1360724742

David E
February 12, 2013, 10:09 PM
Not everybody can afford to stock up on EVERYTHING all at once. I am happy for you, that you can. That's good. But it doesn't apply to all of us.

True, and it does little good to tell someone what they "should've done" after that window has closed.

I feel somewhat in the same boat, even tho I've been accumulating stuff for years. In some cases, I had more than I realized (.22 ammo) in other cases, I thought what I had was sufficient, but now realize its nowhere close.

It's a matter of perspective, as well. Not long ago, 500 rds of .308 would've seemed plenty, but now 1500 seems light.

I now regard loaded ammo as gold, reloadable cases as silver.

IF we get thru this batch of anti gun bills relatively unscathed, perhaps we can all do what we "should've done" this time in anticipation of the next time.

If an egregious ammo bill passes, then what you have now may well be it. (which suddenly made my 1500 rds feel even smaller)

I'm reminded of some of the "how much ammo is enough" threads where people were mighty proud of their 200-300 rd "stockpile."

Also, nobody could have predicted Newtown.

Maybe not by name, but we all knew this administration was just waiting to pounce on our gun rights when the perfect moment (for them) happened.

Warp
February 12, 2013, 10:12 PM
Maybe not by name, but we all knew this administration was just waiting to pounce on our gunfights when the right moment happened.

That's what people said 4+ years ago, and it didn't happen.

David E
February 12, 2013, 10:16 PM
That's what people said 4+ years ago, and it didn't happen.

Yes it did. You said it yourself. It's called Newtown.

Or are you the type of guy that waits until there's a fire before thinking its necessary to buy an extinguisher?

Warp
February 12, 2013, 10:29 PM
Yes it did. You said it yourself. It's called Newtown.

Or are you the type of guy that waits until there's a fire before thinking its necessary to buy an extinguisher?

I'm the type of guy who cannot afford to just go out and buy all of the ammo and magazines and guns and spare parts he and his family and his offspring will need for the rest of their lives.

Why is that so hard to understand?

It just so happens that right now, of the above items, ammunition is the one I am seeking the most.

I believed it was reasonable to ensure the firearms and the magazines first since, you know, they are the things that have actually been banned outright in the past and which the current ban attempts are for.

What has it come to that people are insulting other shooters for trying to find ammo at a good price???

gunlover_06
February 12, 2013, 11:05 PM
I'm the type of guy who cannot afford to just go out and buy all of the ammo and magazines and guns and spare parts he and his family and his offspring will need for the rest of their lives.

Why is that so hard to understand?

It just so happens that right now, of the above items, ammunition is the one I am seeking the most.

I believed it was reasonable to ensure the firearms and the magazines first since, you know, they are the things that have actually been banned outright in the past and which the current ban attempts are for.

What has it come to that people are insulting other shooters for trying to find ammo at a good price???
I second that not all of us are able to afford everything we want or need all at once

Skylerbone
February 13, 2013, 12:15 AM
Maybe shotguns are the wave of the future. Walmart still has shells for those.

In all seriousness, I have seen components coming in to local shops including bullets and dies. My current .223 supplies price out to about $275/1,000 using Hornady VMax bullets, CCI primers and BL-C(2). Start gathering, start simple and don't shoot everything, save a little.

vtail
February 13, 2013, 12:36 AM
Remember these days?


http://willowhavenoutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ammo-pre-packaged-military-can.jpg

Warp
February 13, 2013, 12:40 AM
That's just depressing.

Especially since I"ll bet it wasn't long ago.

I ordered one of those cans from Brownells for $170 shipped not all that long ago

David E
February 13, 2013, 01:25 AM
I'm the type of guy who cannot afford to just go out and buy all of the ammo and magazines and guns and spare parts he and his family and his offspring will need for the rest of their lives.

The smart way for someone in your position to do it is to buy steadily over time. What I often did was buy a 100 pack of WWB every other trip to Walmart, OR buy 100 rds of CCI Mini-mags. You say you heard the call, so to speak, in 2008.....but you ignored it. Then, to justify your failure to act, cite that "nothing happened" then.

(Were you unaware of the year long ammo shortage that began 11-08?)

The warning (one of them) was 4 yrs ago, the event the warning was about happened about 4 yrs later on 12-14-12

I believed it was reasonable to ensure the firearms and the magazines first since, you know, they are the things that have actually been banned outright in the past and which the current ban attempts are for.

Were you unaware of the year long ammo shortage that began 11-08?

The guys that think they have plenty of ammo at 200 rds always baffled me. The guys that blithely stop by WM to buy ammo on their way to the range, else they couldn't shoot, downright perplexed me until I realized its a simple matter of of priority.

Anyone that doesn't have a minimal amount of ammo at this point is either going to pay a lot for it, or be Johnny-on-the-Spot at the local WM when the ammo is put out. Or wait it out.....if that turns out to be an option.

The ironic part is, if everything calms down and returns to normal for a few years, the SAME people complaining about lack of ammo now will be complaining again about it in the future.

Warp
February 13, 2013, 01:35 AM
The smart way for someone in your position to do it is to buy steadily over time. What I often did was buy a 100 pack of WWB every other trip to Walmart, OR buy 100 rds of CCI Mini-mags. You say you heard the call, so to speak, in 2008.....but you ignored it. Then, to justify your failure to act, cite that "nothing happened" then.

(Were you unaware of the year long ammo shortage that began 11-08?)

The warning (one of them) was 4 yrs ago, the event the warning was about happened about 4 yrs later on 12-14-12



Were you unaware of the year long ammo shortage that began 11-08?

The guys that think they have plenty of ammo at 200 rds always baffled me. The guys that blithely stop by WM to buy ammo on their way to the range, else they couldn't shoot, downright perplexed me until I realized its a simple matter of of priority.

Anyone that doesn't have a minimal amount of ammo at this point is either going to pay a lot for it, or be Johnny-on-the-Spot at the local WM when the ammo is put out. Or wait it out.....if that turns out to be an option.

The ironic part is, if everything calms down and returns to normal for a few years, the SAME people complaining about lack of ammo now will be complaining again about it in the future.

And I have been.

But I still don't have NEARLY enough. It's expensive! :(

It's damn hard just to buy as much as I shoot, let alone MORE to have for later. I shoot as much as 450 rounds of 5.56/.223 in a single afternoon (and none of it wasted).

Please note that I am not complaining about lack of ammo. I AM interested in getting more ammo, right now, for a good price...such as what I quoted and said half the internet would be interested in. He was quoting $0.35 per round for XM855. You do realize how outstanding of a price that is, right?

ilmonster
February 13, 2013, 09:47 AM
It looks to be becoming available in dribs and drabs. I bought 1K rounds of Federal 55 gr. (not in individual boxes, just in a big plastic bag in a sealed box from the factory) from Gander Mtn. of all places for $499 a week ago. They had a flyer with a dozen different types of .223 on sale, but the clerk said that sold out within a few hours. That evening when I went there, the only 223 they had left were the cases of 1000 rounds. I guess not as many folks wished to part with $499 for ammo. With a Gander bucks card and points on my Cabela's Visa, I walked out with a case for $470. I was happy. This should certainly last me for the year, as I also shoot shotguns (skeet and sporties) and handguns.

taliv
February 13, 2013, 10:04 AM
The smart way for someone in your position to do it is to buy steadily over time.

no, that's about the most expensive way to buy it. save up some money. wait to find a good deal on BULK and buy all at once. It's much cheaper that way. And that is doubly true for reloading components.

Gordon
February 13, 2013, 10:21 AM
Received Monday 1000 rounds of Herters .223 from Cabelas I ordered Jan 5th , it cost just under $400 shipped. Once again I am proud of my fellow Americans for buying an ocean of .223 ! It will certainly make the commies in power think twice !

David E
February 13, 2013, 11:16 AM
He was quoting $0.35 per round for XM855. You do realize how outstanding of a price that is, right?

Right now, that's great.

But not as good as loading my own at .23 cents per round. (since I've already loaded up my modest .223 component stash that worked out to .11 cents per round)

Skylerbone
February 13, 2013, 11:55 AM
Wish I could load for .11/round. Even prehysteria prices on primers and powder ate .10/round minimum. Haven't seen any penny bullets round here.

breakingcontact
February 13, 2013, 12:01 PM
I've seen 556 green tip for about 50 cents a round locally, that's getting close to pre-crazy prices.

Warp
February 13, 2013, 12:16 PM
Right now, that's great.

But not as good as loading my own at .23 cents per round. (since I've already loaded up my modest .223 component stash that worked out to .11 cents per round)

Again, I apologize for not doing things exactly the same as you, or exactly how you think I should.

I apologize for not being able afford the rifle I wanted in 5.56/.223 until June of last year. I apologize for only being able to afford the rifle, magazines, a sling, a light (essential to a defensive rifle IMO), critical spare parts, training/practice with it, and ammo for it, but not more ammo and not a huge pile of reloading components + all of the tools necessarily to reload it. I only had so many thousands of dollars to spend at a time.

I am sorry to have offended you by asking where I can find good deals on loaded 5.56 ammunition.

pty101
February 13, 2013, 12:22 PM
I bought one of the Federal cans at that price back in Oct. Those prices are not that far in the past, but its seems like years ago. Now we all wait and hope that we see those prices again.

breakingcontact
February 13, 2013, 12:32 PM
Eh. The reloading guys really promote their hobby. I'd be into it. Just don't have the space or time.

I do feel for those who didn't stock up. However buying at these prices and or complaining about prices is silly. If you didn't stock up before, you should shoot what can be found for reasonable prices now. Or pay the high price but don't complain about it.

We need to take it easy on those who did not prepare or see this coming. In turn they need to have the humility to understand they got in or woke up at the wrong time.

For those just buying ammo to sit on it...not sure what that's about. Good to have a certain amount of stock to keep and not shoot. But when I just see photos of hundreds of magazines or tens of thousands of rounds...kind of makes me just feel people are showing off and not enjoying the hobby/lifestyle.

Imma keep shooting because I prepared. Not sitting around counting my beans.

Skylerbone
February 13, 2013, 01:17 PM
My reloading area is a solid core door cut to IIRC 24" W then fastened to 2 X 4s. Not a big space commitment, storage underneath and on the wall. The only other space I use is the adjacent walk-in closet for ammo. A few steel shelving units holds a fair amount and the door keeps it locked away nicely. Inexpensive and practical.

Warp
February 13, 2013, 01:41 PM
I do feel for those who didn't stock up.

We need to take it easy on those who did not prepare or see this coming. In turn they need to have the humility to understand they got in or woke up at the wrong time.

This ^

For those just buying ammo to sit on it...not sure what that's about. Good to have a certain amount of stock to keep and not shoot. But when I just see photos of hundreds of magazines or tens of thousands of rounds...kind of makes me just feel people are showing off and not enjoying the hobby/lifestyle.

And this ^

Seem to be pretty contradictory to me. What's the deal? It almost sounds like there is a very specific amount of ammo that you personally think is appropriate, and that people with less than you were unprepared and "woke up at the wrong time" while people with more than you are showing off and not enjoying themselves.

I think too many people are close minded and believe that what they have decided upon is the only way to do things.

Kind of the old 'everybody driving faster than you is a maniac while everybody driving slower is just in the way'

Those more prepared are paranoid, those less prepared are sheep.

We have no chance of EVER winning these legal and political battles if we can't stop splitting ourselves up and fighting within ourselves over such petty things as how much ammo other people choose to have.

For the record I have about 3,000 rounds of factory 5.56/.223 at the moment, and I have put more than 2,000 through that rifle (first of the cartridge) that I bought in June. So, at that rate, I have maybe 1 year's supply of ammunition before I'm out. I'd rather have more than one lousy year's' worth or else I'll have to start rationing it pretty soon, and I believe that when people stop shooting due to ammo cost/availability, the gun-grabbers have already won.

I also got talked into reloading last year, and I got set up to start doing so, including 2.5k bullets, 6k primers, and 12 pounds of powder. It's just that I'm getting into it slowly and am only doing pistol cartridges right now, particularly .38spl and .357 magnum, as they offered the biggest difference between retail cost and reloading expense of the handgun cartridges I actively shoot. I have been saving my brass, especially the revolver brass and the 5.56/.223 brass. I will have a 5 gallon bucket full pretty soon.

That isn't nearly good enough though. I wouldn't be comfortable unless I had, oh, 250,00 rounds of .22lr, 50,000 rounds of 5.56 and 50,000 rounds of 9/.45 and maybe 10,000 rounds of .38spl. But I'll NEVER be able to afford to have all that, so I settle for buying what I can for the best price I can find when I have the money to do so.

David E
February 13, 2013, 01:46 PM
Wish I could load for .11/round. Even prehysteria prices on primers and powder ate .10/round minimum. Haven't seen any penny bullets round here.

Me neither. I bought most of the components in the 90's, some before that.

Psychologically, I took comfort in having them on hand, "just in case." I realized, of course, that one can't shoot components until they're properly assembled, yet I put that off. Until a couple weeks ago. I feel much better having them loaded up.

But prices I paid in the 90's and before mean nothing now, other than for comparisons sake.

Currently, Natchez has had 100 baggie-packs of bullets come in recently at $12, or .12 cents each. Powder is about .07 cents, primers add .04 cents for .23 cents per shot. Which is still better than the .35 cents cited earlier as a smoking deal.

David E
February 13, 2013, 01:51 PM
Again, I apologize for not doing things exactly the same as you, or exactly how you think I should.

I never told you what you should've done, I only related what I have done. Honestly, I doubt that anyone cares what you do, don't do or will do, so you can stop apologizing. No one cares!

Warp
February 13, 2013, 01:52 PM
Currently, Natchez has had 100 baggie-packs of bullets come in recently at $12, or .12 cents each. Powder is about .07 cents, primers add .04 cents for .23 cents per shot. Which is still better than the .35 cents cited earlier as a smoking deal.

It is. But then you need to account for the cost of the equipment. I also believe you need to account for the cost of the brass, because if you collected the brass but didn't reload it you could then sell and use the money to offset the cost of your factory ammo. That brass is not actually 'free', there is absolutely an opportunity cost associated with it, and a US$ cost at that.

And you need to account for your time.

I have observed that reloaders sugar coat things and kinda sorta do whatever they can to present their hobby in as positive a light as they possibly can, which necessarily dictates maybe not being 100% truthful (not lying, but not telling the WHOLE TRUTH, either). There are plenty of expenses that seem to just get ignored by a lot of the guys who quote what their ammo costs.


Such as the ever popular quoting of components purchased 10-20 years ago. At that point they should be adjusting for inflation, because $1 in 1996 is a hell of a lot different than $1 today.

Plus I am <30 years old. It's not like I had a whole lot of opportunity to stock up on components or ammo in the 90s.

Warp
February 13, 2013, 01:54 PM
I never told you what you should've done, I only related what I have done. Honestly, I doubt that anyone cares what you do, don't do or will do, so you can stop apologizing. No one cares!

I must have read too much into this

Yes it did. You said it yourself. It's called Newtown.

Or are you the type of guy that waits until there's a fire before thinking its necessary to buy an extinguisher?

David E
February 13, 2013, 02:02 PM
Imma keep shooting because I prepared. Not sitting around counting my beans.

Kanye, would you please let us know how many rounds you think are "adequate?"

David E
February 13, 2013, 02:09 PM
I must have read too much into this

You certainly did.

I'd clarify it for you, but you'd read too much into it.

I hope you find the ammo you're looking for.

breakingcontact
February 13, 2013, 02:20 PM
My Kanye cover has been blown!

Adequate is different for all of us I suppose. Different shooting habits. Different expectations of when normalcy will return.

I dont regularly shoot 223/556 so it doesn't take much to make an adequate amount for me.

taliv
February 13, 2013, 02:23 PM
But prices I paid in the 90's and before mean nothing now, other than for comparisons sake.

Currently, Natchez has had 100 baggie-packs of bullets come in recently at $12, or .12 cents each. Powder is about .07 cents, primers add .04 cents for .23 cents per shot. Which is still better than the .35 cents cited earlier as a smoking deal.

late last year, week or two before the election i think, i bought 5000 75g OTM bullets for 11 cents each. also got pull-down mil surplus powder for $85/8lb and primers for $25/k. that works out to 11 + 3.8 + 2.5 = 17.3 cents per match round. i think we will see those prices again. i hope so, because at this rate that will only last me til late summer.

David E
February 13, 2013, 02:28 PM
But then you need to account for the cost of the equipment.

It depends how much you shoot. Since you blast over 400 rds of .223 each session, maybe you shoot enough to come out ahead pretty quickly. It depends how often you blow thru 400+ rds.

I also believe you need to account for the cost of the brass,

It's wise to pick up those 400 pieces of brass. You can reload each case 10 or more times.

if you collected the brass but didn't reload it you could then sell and use the money to offset the cost of your factory ammo.

At what, scrap brass price? Locally, the "cheap range .223 brass" is $150 per K, far above scrap prices.

And you need to account for your time.

Yeah, but 10 minutes here and there isn't hard to find. I use those 10 minutes to crank out 100 rds of .223 or 200 rds of 9mm.

I have observed that reloaders sugar coat things and kinda sorta do whatever they can to present their hobby in as positive a light as they possibly can, which necessarily dictates maybe not being 100% truthful (not lying, but not telling the WHOLE TRUTH, either). There are plenty of expenses that seem to just get ignored by a lot of the guys who quote what their ammo costs.

If you wisely picked up your brass, it's like getting it for free, especially if you pick up brass left by other shooters. But even if you buy 1000 cases for $150, you have .15 cents per. Load it 10x, now it's 1 1/2 cents each, so add 1.5 cents to the .23 cents cited previously.



You sure go out of your way, don't you. :rolleyes:

I cited BOTH costs, past and present. Reread the post.

[quote]Plus I am <30 years old...

That explains a lot....

Look, I don't care if you decide to reload. I only shared how it has helped me build my stock for much less cost than factory ammo.

Skylerbone
February 13, 2013, 03:13 PM
What is this "Factory Ammo" you speak of? Like rimfire? :neener:

I admit I bought 3 boxes of -06 two years ago as I was concerned our neighbors to the North might confiscate my hand loads. I've got a few boxes of bullets and primers from somewhere around '87 or '88 that surfaced while clearing out some ammo boxes I had stowed but my figures are always based on current prices. As most of my presses are probably older than Warp, I've discontinued the idea of amortizing the price per round.

David E
February 13, 2013, 03:55 PM
I still figure cost per round sometimes, but like Skylerbone, my reloading equipment has paid for itself many times over.

Ignition Override
February 13, 2013, 05:08 PM
As soon as people -who can afford- it learn to save cash and plan ahead by buying extra ammo (a difficult concept to grasp), just In Case we have unforeseen, extremely tragic events, they won't feel compelled to pay these prices.

They never should have assumed that everything would remain hunky dory.
Recent, well-publicized mass shootings in the US were a pretty good "hint";) about the momentum.

breakingcontact
February 13, 2013, 06:40 PM
^re^ some of these shooters may be brand new or have stopped being just into guns for hunting and changed their mentality and realized being armed with a serious rifle may be a good idea.

Hate how we turn against each other and don't welcome the new guys.

I prepared. But I could have been one of those who didn't if circumstances were slightly different. Yes I had the prudence to prepare but I was also fortunate.

btg3
February 13, 2013, 06:54 PM
... learn to save cash and plan ahead...
This is not taught by our public education system and is not the norm in the USA. It requires the exercise of personal responsibility, rather than dependence on others. My expectations are not high for sudden change among the citizens.

Skylerbone
February 13, 2013, 07:34 PM
Every one of us brings a unique perspective to the table with our own bias and experience. While I agree with the sentiment that someone in my position should be well provisioned at this point there are a good number of people still in the infancy stage of their hobby or their career or their personal life.

Now if I caught some 20 year old begging for gas money to fuel his new Camero I'd be quick to give him the #1 hand signal but I consider it a privilege to help out folks who might not otherwise have the means to shoot much. It may not be 400 rounds at a time but I've taught a few how to reload to stay on the legal side of access to my ammo. They help and it's theirs.

jrdolall
February 13, 2013, 09:42 PM
Ahh condescension. I learned long ago that there are always people that are smarter than me and these types of threads just reinforce that knowledge.

I have plenty of money and can buy pretty much as much ammo as I want. I have all I need for most of my guns but I still got caught flat footed on 22LR. I just didn't see a run on that ammo. Now I had over 10,000 rounds on hand before Sandy Hook but we can easily go through 2k on a weekend. I was able to buy a few bricks online after the stores ran out but if things don't get back on the shelf I will have to cut back on my .22 usage.

I guess I am a newbie and should have expected this.

David E
February 13, 2013, 09:53 PM
What's a little scary is how quickly things went down the tube. I mean, nothing had been officially introduced to start the gun/ammo run and the shortage has reached far, wide and deep. Dillon has a 4-6 week delay, which is going pretty far down the line as far as shooting goes.

I, for one, have relearned the lesson of making sure I have more than enough for every caliber.

btg3
February 13, 2013, 09:54 PM
Ahh condescension
An oyxmoron if ever there was one. :D
Thanks for the chuckle.

Warp
February 13, 2013, 11:12 PM
late last year, week or two before the election i think, i bought 5000 75g OTM bullets for 11 cents each. also got pull-down mil surplus powder for $85/8lb and primers for $25/k. that works out to 11 + 3.8 + 2.5 = 17.3 cents per match round. i think we will see those prices again. i hope so, because at this rate that will only last me til late summer.

You forgot the most expensive component, brass.

Warp
February 13, 2013, 11:14 PM
At what, scrap brass price? Locally, the "cheap range .223 brass" is $150 per K, far above scrap prices.


Are you saying that around there the brass is worth $0.15 each? So I could sell my brass to get almost half of the cost of the factory ammo back? If reloaded rounds cos $0.23, how does reloading saving money?

The spent brass having a $ value is my point. When reloaders calculate how much their reloads cost and compare it to factory, they ignore the value of the brass. If a non-reloader collects their once-fired brass, organizes it, and sells it, they get noticeable money back, which makes the factory ammo less expensive, and alters the "this is how much I save per shot" calculations associated with reloading.

Skylerbone
February 13, 2013, 11:30 PM
Condescending. Could be seen as that, it's all in the presentation.

And just where did you buy ammo and PMAGS for that price last week? Fairytale Land?

You got a really good price on that ammo and PMAGS. Any chance of sharing your source?

The not so subtle differences can be the difference between a helping hand or a corresponding backhand.

As for brass, normal price is far less than currently advertised prices, of which there aren't many takers. As I mentioned, scrap yards sell it for under $2.50/lb. here. Were I more motivated and without other commitment I might purchase a fair quantity to resell or trade. I've offered the source however and I doubt my town is unique in having a fair supply.

Claiming brass has a marketable value may be true but you can reload it many times while selling it only once. If it brought you $10.00/100 market value in fair times vs. loading it 10X for a reloadable cost of $10/1,000 or .01/round you can see that this additional cost to the reloader is marginal at best. When the necks split you can take that to the scrap yard and collect $1.00 for it further reducing the price per round to .009/round. That would bring the cost of my last several hundred rounds to .269/round for VMax. .269 X 1,000 = $269.00/case for premium ammo.

Warp
February 13, 2013, 11:33 PM
Could be seen as that, it's all in the presentation.

And just where did you buy ammo and PMAGS for that price last week? Fairytale Land?

You got a really good price on that ammo and PMAGS. Any chance of sharing your source?

The not so subtle differences can be the difference between a helping hand or a corresponding backhand.

Whose/what prices are you referring to?

Maybe I got threads confused, but I don't even recall PMAGs in this one?

David E
February 14, 2013, 12:07 AM
Are you saying that around there the brass is worth $0.15 each?

The gunstore sells it for that.

So I could sell my brass to get almost half of the cost of the factory ammo back?

Where, exactly, are you currently finding .223 ammo for .35 cents each? One poster mentioned it and you were all over it, indicating that you haven't been able to find it at that price.

If reloaded rounds cos $0.23, how does reloading saving money?

Reread the above.

When reloaders calculate how much their reloads cost and compare it to factory, they ignore the value of the brass.

I included it. Reread my previous posts.

If a non-reloader collects their once-fired brass, organizes it, and sells it, they get noticeable money back

That is an option.

which makes the factory ammo less expensive, and alters the "this is how much I save per shot" calculations associated with reloading.

There are other reasons to reload, but let's look at it one more time. Academy is currently selling .223 for about $14 (with tax) for a box of 20, which works out to be .70 cents per round, or $700 per 1000. You recover all your brass, list it and sell it for $200. You buy another 1000 for $700, minus the $200, paying "only" $500 per K, or .50 cents per round. Meanwhile, I'm still cranking them out at .23 cents per round, or $230 per 1000.

Yeah, your way saves more money,,,,,:rolleyes:

Warp
February 14, 2013, 12:09 AM
Condescending. Could be seen as that, it's all in the presentation.

And just where did you buy ammo and PMAGS for that price last week? Fairytale Land?

You got a really good price on that ammo and PMAGS. Any chance of sharing your source?

The not so subtle differences can be the difference between a helping hand or a corresponding backhand.

As for brass, normal price is far less than currently advertised prices, of which there aren't many takers. As I mentioned, scrap yards sell it for under $2.50/lb. here. Were I more motivated and without other commitment I might purchase a fair quantity to resell or trade. I've offered the source however and I doubt my town is unique in having a fair supply.

Claiming brass has a marketable value may be true but you can reload it many times while selling it only once. If it brought you $10.00/100 market value in fair times vs. loading it 10X for a reloadable cost of $10/1,000 or .01/round you can see that this additional cost to the reloader is marginal at best. When the necks split you can take that to the scrap yard and collect $1.00 for it further reducing the price per round to .009/round. That would bring the cost of my last several hundred rounds to .269/round for VMax. .269 X 1,000 = $269.00/case for premium ammo.

Quoting again because I saw you edited. What are you talking about PMAGs for? I searched the thread and your post was the first one with the word "pmag" or "pmags".

If you start out with a full price case of factory ammo, and collect all the brass, and sell it at $10/100 that's $100 for the case. Take $100 off your next case of ammo, and it becomes more comparable to the reloaded cost. And now you have brand new brass to do the same thing with for the next case. So it really isn't a once vs ten times thing, because every time you sell the brass to buy factory ammo, voila, you have another 1k pieces of once fired brass.

Warp
February 14, 2013, 12:13 AM
Where, exactly, are you currently finding .223 ammo for .35 cents each? One poster mentioned it and you were all over it, indicating that you haven't been able to find it at that price.

Oh, I'm not. As far as I am concerned that deal simply doesn't exist. You are right about that/I agree with you 100%.





There are other reasons to reload, but let's look at it one more time. Academy is currently selling .223 for about $14 (with tax) for a box of 20, which works out to be .70 cents per round, or $700 per 1000. You recover all your brass, list it and sell it for $200. You buy another 1000 for $700, minus the $200, paying "only" $500 per K, or .50 cents per round. Meanwhile, I'm still cranking them out at .23 cents per round, or $230 per 1000.

Yeah, your way saves more money,,,,,:rolleyes:

I bought 1,500 rounds of NATO spec 62gr penetrator for $0.55 per round shipped earlier this week.

I never said factory ammo was less expensive.

I said reloaders often sugarcoat the expenses/look at the situation extremely optimistically and maybe don't take all pertinent factors into account when quoting the cost of their reloads, and I will add can get pretty darn pushy about it.

Warp
February 14, 2013, 01:21 AM
So while we are on the topic, what is the best current source/price for available rifle primers like I would/will want to use for loading .223/5.56?

David E
February 14, 2013, 01:35 AM
I bought 1,500 rounds of NATO spec 62gr penetrator for $0.55 per round shipped earlier this week.

.55 - .23 = .32 cents savings per shot.

I never said factory ammo was less expensive.

No? Didn't you post: Are you saying that around there the brass is worth $0.15 each? So I could sell my brass to get almost half of the cost of the factory ammo back? If reloaded rounds cos $0.23, how does reloading saving money?

I said reloaders often sugarcoat the expenses/look at the situation extremely optimistically and maybe don't take all pertinent factors into account when quoting the cost of their reloads,

Seriously? I laid out all the costs several times.

and I will add can get pretty darn pushy about it.

I don't care if you ever reload or even see the value of it. How is that pushy?

Reloadron
February 14, 2013, 05:16 AM
So while we are on the topic, what is the best current source/price for available rifle primers like I would/will want to use for loading .223/5.56?
I don't think there really is a single "current source" for primers, let alone small rifle primers for .223. Just about every source is hit and skip. Those having any luck are constantly checking websites of the major distributors like Powder Valley or Graff & Sons for example. When distributors do get anything it goes up on their website and is out of stock pretty quickly. Those with the time and energy constantly look to different distributor websites hoping for some luck. Sometimes time and patience pays off and sometimes not.

As to reloading or hand loading in general, people do it for assorted reasons. Personally in my case I don't hand load to save money. I roll my own to achieve accuracy in specific rifles I enjoy shooting. There are cases where I am loading ammunition that likely cost me more per round than buying bulk .223 for example. The same is true for .308 loads also. I am fortunate in that I do not worry much about what the cost per round is as much as I worry about how well the round will perform. Can a savings be realized hand loading? Absolutely there can be savings, how much beats the hell out of me as I never bothered to do the math. As of today it would be difficult to put a price on savings anyway because of tremendous price swings in components.

Right now my heart goes out to the new younger shooters coming on board. Most of these new shooters had no clue what happened years ago or any knowledge of the ammunition and loading component droughts of the past. I have been shooting since about age 8 and started hand loading when I was 22 and came home from Vietnam. I turned 63 last week and have been at it for awhile. The new guys do not have it as well as many of us and for a young shooter starting out there are priorities. With a wife and maybe kids you do not buy an 8 Lb jug of powder before you pay rent, mortgage payment or put beanies and weenies on the dinner table. You do not spend money you do not have following the US Government's lead. Buying a few thousand dollars in reloading supplies on your Visa card is not a real good idea. Many of those who were ill prepared for this current mess was through no fault of their own.

Shooting in general is an expensive hobby and the more one gets into it the more expensive it becomes. For many of us who have been at hand loading for many years and maintain a good component stock droughts like this are no big deal. However, for the new shooter these are really difficult times. Again, my heart goes out to them. I know this sucks but things will get better. Patience and good things come to those who wait.

Ron

Skylerbone
February 14, 2013, 09:14 AM
Best post of the thread Ron. Thank you for your service and welcome home.

Warp, the PMAG questions I brought up were in reference to the post on condescension. They were two examples of how one might respond to a (fictitious in this case) post about PMAGS at a decent price, the 'ol vinegar and honey analogy if you will. A response to a demanding, and in its own right condescending post expecting a source is often met with a seemingly equal amount of condescension in both a refusal to share and a healthy amount of scorn for the indignation shown. For example: "You should have asked nicely. Now I don't care if you ever find PMAGS! Think I'll go back and buy a few more, the green ones were only $12. Enjoy your Thermelts!" similar to my fictitious 20 year old driving a nicer car than me demanding gas money. If it were a used Escort and he wasn't an insistent jerk, help would be forthcoming. IOW Warp, some people make friends, others become their own worst enemy.

Back to brass and selling it to shops that buy, don't expect to receive the same amount the owner sells it for as he must and will make a profit.

taliv
February 14, 2013, 09:20 AM
i'm going to close this thread since it's mostly arguing about reloading now.

if you want to open a thread about where to find components right now, please do so in the reloading forum

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