A view from the other side of the fence.


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alanten
February 8, 2013, 09:20 PM
http://www.thepolemicist.net/2013/01/the-rifle-on-wall-left-argument-for-gun.html

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Sam1911
February 8, 2013, 09:26 PM
That's pretty strong plain dealing right there. I wouldn't even say that's someone on the "other side of the fence." That's someone right here on OUR side of the fence!

(He's just got other issues that may or may not align with your own. Who doesn't?)

armedandsafe
February 8, 2013, 10:15 PM
Very good. I saved it to peruse again. there is more there than can be absorbed in one quick read.

Thank you.

Pops

gunsandreligion
February 8, 2013, 11:10 PM
Wow. My respect for certain liberals zoommed skyward. Very well written and though out.

Texan Scott
February 9, 2013, 12:54 AM
Wow. A *REAL* liberal. Power to the people, indeed. My right to a rifle in my house is the same as any Senator's - THAT'S social equality. I can respect this man even if we disagree on other issues. This is thoughtful, intellectually honest discourse.

Zardaia
February 9, 2013, 02:19 AM
Dosn't even own a gun, but supports as a right. Love it. "The only thing that might get me to rush out and purchase a gun, as it’s already got 2.2 million people to do, is the threat that my right to do so was about to be eliminated.45 And I might now have to consider going armed, to fend off those of my liberal friends who will come gunning for me after reading this" from article

gossamer
February 9, 2013, 10:24 AM
WHAT?!?!! A Liberal who supports gun rights and demonstrates there is common ground between liberals and conservatives on the issue?

How can this be????

hso
February 9, 2013, 10:46 AM
Nice piece of work in that.

SharpsDressedMan
February 9, 2013, 10:49 AM
Who is that guy? I'd like to quote him and refer people to his stuff, but does he have a published name? Maybe I missed it...........

Manco
February 9, 2013, 11:02 AM
Wow. A *REAL* liberal. Power to the people, indeed.

Yes, all *REAL* Americans are "liberals" in a sense because we cherish liberty, whether we are on the left or right wing politically (just like the Founders, most real liberals in our time are right-wingers, actually). The terms "liberal" and "conservative" are woefully misused today. Real left-wing liberals are practically an extinct species now (hence all of the oohing over this rare specimen), having been replaced by those who eschew personal responsibility and wish to be coddled by a benevolent (sure! :banghead:) authoritarian nanny state. Real liberals, whether on the left or right wing, place power in the hands of "We the People"--that's all of the people, not just those elected/appointed to office. That's us--everybody who understands what the American Revolution was about and therefore supports the right of the people to keep and bear arms is a liberal, the opposite of an authoritarian. Not that I'd encourage the general use of a term that has been so thoroughly poisoned by now, mind you.

My right to a rifle in my house is the same as any Senator's - THAT'S social equality.

The US government should be OF the people--people like you and me who have the same rights, no more, no less. Read the AWB to see whether it meets this criterion or else doesn't belong in America. An armed populace helps ensure not only our common defense (which was needed during WWII or else Japan might well have invaded and crushed our puny army of the time, taking us out of the war), but that the government would also be FOR the people.

I can respect this man even if we disagree on other issues. This is thoughtful, intellectually honest discourse.

I totally agree. Imagine if our opponents were so honest. OK, back to reality now. :(

By the way, those who think that some of us are paranoid because of some things we've said about an authoritarian police state being incrementally and surreptitiously instituted by the power elite should read this essay. I'm not saying that it helps justify everything that everybody is saying (some of us have quite vivid imaginations when we see the warning signs :o), but it very astutely explains why there is a cause for concern, even alarm at this point. It's nothing we haven't seen before many times over, in one form or another--it's only paranoia from the point of view of those who place their full faith in government to take care of the people without being corrupted by having a monopoly on power (use common sense!).

Mosbyranger
February 9, 2013, 11:02 AM
Wow! What a potent article. Mods- imho that blog entry should be copied, pasted to a sticky and all members should be encouraged to read it. Sharing with other +2A/Firearms forums should also be considered. I wish I could write that well.
MR

Akita1
February 9, 2013, 11:15 AM
WHAT?!?!! A Liberal who supports gun rights and demonstrates there is common ground between liberals and conservatives on the issue?

How can this be????
+1; not sure everyone notices how many times you've said that about yourself…hell it's even in your sig line!

76shuvlinoff
February 9, 2013, 11:15 AM
Finally, a voice from the left I don't feel the need to scream back at.

ApacheCoTodd
February 9, 2013, 11:22 AM
That is a piece worth downloading and printing. Copyright issues aside, it would be some outstanding fillibuster reading.

I don't care who wrote it or what their political affiliation is, that's epic.

BBQJOE
February 9, 2013, 12:01 PM
I started reading this, and from what I read so far, it sounds like this person has their head on straight.
After skimming ahead a little, it appears that I may have to hold off finishing this until I can get into a comfortable robe, with a nice glass of wine, and sit before the fire.
This is a long read.

Cesiumsponge
February 9, 2013, 12:41 PM
There are popularist and statist liberals. Then there are classic liberals. Most conservatives assume there is only one type of "liberal" that wants to take your guns and spend all your money while killing religion, just as most liberals assume there is only one brand of "conservatism" that wants to put women back in the kitchen and turn America into a theocracy.

The only people who are surprised by this article are the people who have pigeonholed all liberals as some stereotype. There are a lot more political and socioideological belief systems out there than, "A" or "B".

Kayaker 1960
February 9, 2013, 01:12 PM
I just posted it to Facebook.

9MMare
February 9, 2013, 01:35 PM
Surprised statements like I see here about liberals indicate a very limited grasp of many of the realities in our country. No wonder there is so much polarization.

9MMare
February 9, 2013, 01:38 PM
There are popularist and statist liberals. Then there are classic liberals. Most conservatives assume there is only one type of "liberal" that wants to take your guns and spend all your money while killing religion, just as most liberals assume there is only one brand of "conservatism" that wants to put women back in the kitchen and turn America into a theocracy.

(I dont think even 'most.' I dont. I know plenty of conservatives and Republicans and dont think that way about them at all...I do worry about the religious right in politics tho)

The only people who are surprised by this article are the people who have pigeonholed all liberals as some stereotype. There are a lot more political and socioideological belief systems out there than, "A" or "B".

Good post.

The blue and the bold are mine.

9MMare
February 9, 2013, 01:42 PM
Dosn't even own a gun, but supports as a right. Love it. "The only thing that might get me to rush out and purchase a gun, as it’s already got 2.2 million people to do, is the threat that my right to do so was about to be eliminated.45 And I might now have to consider going armed, to fend off those of my liberal friends who will come gunning for me after reading this" from article

I supported the 2A before I owned a gun. My parents support the 2A and my having a gun....and they dont have any.

I'm a Democrat and they're Republicans, just fyi.

I support the Constitution even when it doesnt affect me directly....because the damage to one part can start to affect all the others.

Cesiumsponge
February 9, 2013, 02:22 PM
Polarizing is kind of a tribal feature. You have to paint groups as "like you" or "the others". We might have a veneer of society and civilization, but the human brain is running on 50,000 year old hardware.

You can see it right in this thread, any other gun forum. Same type of stuff goes on at places like Democratic Underground. Stray from some official doctrine and you're suddenly a traitor. That's okay though. Try being a Libertarian. You're more extreme than either party apparently, and liberals tell you that a vote cast for a Libertarian is a vote cast for a Republican, while conservatives say a vote cast for a Libertarian is a vote cast for a Democrat. Anything that goes wrong is always a "failed Libertarian idea".

I know plenty of moderates in person but if you turn on the radio and listen to even our local talk radio markets, neither side will really give you that moderate presentation. Of course, the conservatives and liberals of today don't resemble those of the 1960's, 1900's, or 1800's. Same term carried throughout history has applied to vastly different parties.

Lucifer_Sam
February 9, 2013, 02:38 PM
Surprised statements like I see here about liberals indicate a very limited grasp of many of the realities in our country. No wonder there is so much polarization.

Well, it also has alot to do with demonizing the other side. Thats handy to do when you want people on your side. Both sides do it.

Also, the media goes and drags up the whiniest, most socially aberrant breed of liberal to manufacture controversies about things that really aren't controversies to many liberals. Or at least wouldn't be, it they hadn't heard that they should be excited about this "problem" over and over.

That being said, there are plenty on both sides that fit with their stereotype very well-- people which have no respect for a right or freedom they don't use or understand and would be happy to take it away.

--------------

Anyway, that's a very, very nice article. Besides hitting pretty much every major point, it hit a few I hadn't heard, and did a great job of crystallizing a few things I'd noticed but never really elaborated. I'd give a vote to sticky it, too.

goon
February 9, 2013, 05:23 PM
It's a long read, but a good one.

The RKBA does not belong only to conservatives. It belongs to ALL Americans, and all Americans should value and exercise that right, along with all other rights in the BOR and all other natural rights that belong to us simply for drawing breath on this planet as free people.

The author of the article is also right about those who have an issue with personally using force to stop an attacker, but who gladly call on the police to do their dirty work for them. There is no moral superiority in that, only cowardice.

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