[Paper_Zombie]

I'm going to take my 91/30 shooting again tomorrow (only the second time it's been on the range), and I've been scrambling to do the work I wanted to get finished before the weekend.

One thing was to float the barrel, but this is the first time I've ever done it. I think I've got the stock itself sanded out pretty well, as a crisp dollar bill slides along the barrel fairly easily while I'm holding the receiver tightly to the stock.

However, I'm a bit confused about the upper handguard. Does this need to be checked as well? If so, how? I don't see an obvious way of checking the clearance short of actually assembling the rifle, and then of course the barrel bands, springs, etc. would be in the way...or should I just not worry about it?

[bainter1212]

Your barrel band will restrict the motion of the barrel during firing.....sometimes this is a good thing. Any barrel flexes during firing, and the 91/30 has a LONG barrel. Get yourself some cork sheeting and bring it to the range with you. Cut it into a couple of small squares. Try firing with the freefloated barrel. If it won't group, put a cork square under the barrel right at the barrel band so that it puts tension on the barrel and fire it again. Sometimes that barrel needs that tension. If you put the square at the band and it gets better, put another a few inches more towards the receiver. You can experiment a lot with these things, and try to find the best combination for your gun. Good luck.

[Paper_Zombie]

I appreciate the advice, and I'll be taking a little bit of cork with me as well, but I'm still curious as to whether or not (or how) I should check the upper handguard for clearance.

Another question...when sighting in (with a raised front sight), should I start at 50 yards and work my way back to 100...or just do it from 100 (with about 2 out of 3 shots on 12" of paper)?

I've heard that the ballistics of 7.62x54r cause it to rise from the muzzle...but for some reason I'm having trouble grasping what that means between 50 and 100 yards as far as the front sight is concerned. Meaning, if I file my extension down so that elevation is POA at 50 yards, have I messed it up at 100?

(edit) I realize that 2 of 3 shots on 1 foot of paper sounds reeeaallly bad...but I'm pretty sure it was me, and hopefully not the gun. I'd never shot 100 yards with iron sights (or at all, for that matter), and I think I was still trying to understand my sight picture when it got too freaking cold. (It was snowing, and I was in a button down dress shirt and vest, lol.)

[WardenWolf]

Check this out: 1/32 (0.8 mm) cork sheets available for cheap

http://www.corkstore.com/Products/Cork-Sheets-CR117/CR117-Cork-Sheet-0-8mm

With this, you should be able to full-length cork the upper handguard. I'd like some .4mm cork so I could do both, but they don't make it in large sheets that thin. You'd have to go to a music supply site and order several sheets.

[Centurian22]

For sight adjustment remember "FORS" Front Opposite Rear Same. This refers to the effect on point of impact of adjustments made to the sights. If you file down your front sight extension (speaking of what did you extend it with?) it will raise your point of impact. Look for some ballistic tables for the 7.62x54r. I have not done so myself but have been told the bullet is still on the rise at 100 yards. Theoretically this means of you zeroed at 50yards your bullet would strike high at 100. The only adjustment on the 91/30 is to raise the rear sight (rears same) so this would raise the point of impact. Therefore zeroed at 50, and assuming what we've been told about the rise, there would be no way to rezero at 100.

Definitely try out the corking. I corked my 91/30 at each action screw, under the receiver (these accomplish the same as sanding the channel for floating te barrel), and at the forward barrel band and am very happy with the results. Myself and three others are regularly hitting clays placed at 75 and 100 yards. I plan to tweak a little bit more but I'm close. To answer your other question there is no way to check free floatedness with the top hand guard in place. I have heard different people say that the mosin barrel CAN and CAN NOT be free floated due to the upper hand guard. By the true definition of "free floating" I agree that the mosin can NOT be free floated. What can be done is removing all unknown points of pressure and replacing them with known controllable and adjustable points of pressure (the cork). With a tight fit it makes the long thin 'flimsy' mosin barrel, perform more like a thicker stiffer bull barrel. A side note on the cork, I rub mine with oil before placing it. Cork is absorbent, if left dry it can absorb moisture and hold it against your metal, obviously bad juju.

I'll stop rambling now. Hope some of this helps.

[caribou]

No bullet "rises at the muzzle" Gravity works on 7.62X54r too...........

fact is its arched tward the target, and the Soviet battle setting is generally 300 yards so any one aiming at the enemys belt buckle was sure to hit in combat, from 50 -400 metere, provided the enemy was standing.
More precise shots were the work of snipers.

Other countrys, finnland notably, st their sights and even held their front sight differently than the Soviets. The soviets imopsed the front sight ON the target, while th Finns had the target atop the front sight with a "6'oclock" hold.

Theres many ways to sight a rifle, and resons to do such, and as easliy to find a remedy and make th esights work like you want them to be.

[Centurian22]

This might help:

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/CaptainChadB/BAC3B51A-9011-470D-B8E5-DF6654AB598C-1232-000001CE5F220A2A.jpg

[Shadow 7D]

You will want to cork your barrel
a mosin is a LONG THIN BARREL, which means it's VERY mobile, so you got lots of harmonics wagging your barrel around...
corking is working to dampen the harmonics and keep the shot consistent.

[MattShlock]

I'm sorry, this is a Russian Milsurp Mosin. Why r u putting this effort and expense into it? It's like big shiny rims and Armor-Alled tires on a cash-for-clunkers car.

[bainter1212]

Just have to reiterate: no bullet RISES in flight unless you are shooting UP. The thing doesn't have wings. The laws of physics state the the bullet instantly begins falling the moment it leaves the muzzle. In fact, if you dropped a bullet from your hand while at precisely the same moment you fired your rifle (level, of course), the two bullets would hit the ground at the same time, no matter how fast the fired round was moving.
Makes understanding ballistics MUCH easier.

Good luck and don't forget a range report :)

[Paper_Zombie]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I learn something new about this gun every day. I'll try corking a few various places, and see which one works out better for me. As for the ballistics, I think I understand a little better now. The gun was just made so that the barrel is pointed slightly up, correct?

Someone asked me what my front sight extension was...it's a little piece of 14-ga. wire insulation. It's wide where it hugs the sight post, but narrows back down to about the original thickness above it. I'm thinking about possibly using the solder method in the future, to make a sleeker, thinner post, but it works for now.

As for MattShlock: "I'm sorry, this is a Russian Milsurp Mosin. Why r u putting this effort and expense into it? It's like big shiny rims and Armor-Alled tires on a cash-for-clunkers car."

I suppose you're not much for DIY work around the home, eh? I'd say the total amount of money I've put into the gun (not counting the gun itself and ammo) is about $20-$30. This is for things like woodstain and oil, some alligator clips to cannibalize for their springs, and a couple new brass brushes to replace the ones the bore ate when I first got it.

It's called "fun". Taking something old and crummy looking and making it better with your own two hands, not with magpul or tapco accessories.:cool:

[MattShlock]

Very handy actually. I even machine as one of my hobbies. But...

[Centurian22]

Paper Zombie, pay no attention trolls will be trolls. I have loved working on my mosin and don't know anyone who has put hands on one that doesn't enjoy it as well. Since I've been playing with mine I've "converted" at least 2-3 other people who never would have given a mosin a second look into 'true believers'.

And you are correct all barrels are angled slightly upward to make the curved path of the the bullet cross the straight path of the sight.

[plumbob1968]

i always find it quite amazing that the people that hate these guns always have to read the post and put down the guns and sometimes the owners of mosins. I myself love shooting both my 91/30 and my type 53. the type 53 that some call a pos is one sweet shooting rifle, bolt is slick and quick as any new bolt gun today. the wood looks like it was drug through every jungle and stream in asia then left to rot before it was picked up but its a great gun and i will fix the wood and make it a great looking gun.

[stubbicatt]

There was a contributor on here several years ago who had corked his barrel and action, and gave pretty good directions on how to do it, and put a more conventional scope on his rifle. I really enjoyed his posts. As I read this I realized I hadn't seen his postings in quite awhile, and he was sort of up there in years.

So while I really enjoy this posting, and tinkering with the rifle, I owe much of my enthusiasm to that gent and hope he is well, wherever he may be.

[carbine85]

The best and easiest things to do to a Mosin is the clean up the barrel channel, cork the end of the barrel and you might try the Smith front sight. I did and like it. On the rear sight I removed some material from the appeture slide and the metal it slides on. Mine was hard to move and know it moves easily. It's also more closely calibrated to 100 & 200 yards. I tried making the elevation adjustment with just the front sight but found the post used up most of the sight picture. What's needed up front is a winged front sight.
The trigger is easy to work on. Mine is safely dropped down to 3 lbs with crisp break.
It's hard to keep the Mosin from stinging shoots after the barrel gets hot and it heats up quickly.

[DMK]

I'm sorry, this is a Russian Milsurp Mosin. Why r u putting this effort and expense into it? It's like big shiny rims and Armor-Alled tires on a cash-for-clunkers car.

Have you guys ever seen a Finnish M39?

The Finns took Russian 1891s and 91/30s that they captured and they tweaked a few things on them. The result was a rifle that shoots very well, much better than a 91/30. It proved that these things are not beyond some tuning.

http://myplace.frontier.com/~dmk0210/myarms/m39s_1.jpg

[9w1911]

they are fine rifles.

[Paper_Zombie]

So after putting about 60 rounds through the gun this weekend, I must say I'm extremely happy with it's performance.

I was putting 3-4" groups on paper at 100 yards, and popping a few clay pigeons until my meagre supply of ammo ran out.

I'm sure my groups will tighten with more practice. I notice that even with a rest, I move around a bit, and I probably need to work on breathing control.

I was a little surprised at my sights though. Even with the extension I put on a couple weeks ago, It seems I made it a bit too short. By raising the rear sight to the 300m mark, it's now hitting the center of a 12" target when setting the black circle directly on top of the sights.

I'm actually kind of happy about this, since now I have a little play in the rear sights...just have to remember where my 100yd mark is.

Conclusion: Thoroughly happy with the rifle, and very relieved I didn't get a clunker.

[Centurian22]

Nice. Glad you're happy with it. I can't wait to finish my last few tweaks on mine either. I may be missing something but it sounds like your extension is too high. Remember FORS = Front opposite rear same. So if you have to Raise your rear sight to the 300meter mark to raise the point of impact to the center of the target, you could accomplish the same result by lowering (opposite) the front sight extension. Hope his helps and doesn't confuse things further.

[Paper_Zombie]

Nice. Glad you're happy with it. I can't wait to finish my last few tweaks on mine either. I may be missing something but it sounds like your extension is too high. Remember FORS = Front opposite rear same. So if you have to Raise your rear sight to the 300meter mark to raise the point of impact to the center of the target, you could accomplish the same result by lowering (opposite) the front sight extension. Hope his helps and doesn't confuse things further.
You are correct sir, I wasn't thinking properly, it seems. I could have just as easily filed down the front sight and achieved the same result. However, I doubt I'll ever be engaging at 300, 400, or even 2,000 meters :P, so I think I'm alright if my rear sight measure doesn't quite match the distance I'm shooting.

Every time I think of FORS, I have to make myself remember it's only in relation to where you -want- to shoot, not where you -are- shooting, if that makes any sense. I instead find it easier to sit quietly for a second, and imagine in my head exactly the motion the gun will make with any particular sight adjustment. (Yes, I know I take the scenic route)

I'll probably leave it as is for now, because like I said, now I can actually move the rear sight down a bit, in case I want to shoot at closer distances, or want to tweak the POA a bit for smaller targets.

Mosins float? I thought only AR-7's floated? :-)

That totally went over my head. I know zip, zilch, nada about ARs, lol. (Well, except for what I've read on the AK vs. AR vs. Mosin list...which kinda makes me never want one, :D )

[Centurian22]

Not the scenic route at all, I do the same thing to check myself when it comes to sight adjustment.

Niho: awesome!!!

The AR-7 has nothing to do with "AR's" which use refers to AR-15's. The AR-7 is a 'survival rifle' that disassembles and stores in its own plastic stock. Also because of being hollow they supposedly float.

That AR vs. AK vs. Mosin list is hilarious. I read a few every night for a good laugh.

[docsleepy]

My Mosin-Nagant groups about 2" at 100 yards. You can re-crown the barrel with a Lee case trimmer. (shrinks groups considerably) See my earlier threads for more suggestions. The nc star scope works well on the rear sight. There is a dovetail underneath that sight. UTG sells a base that fits on the rear sight if you can't get it off. Lee sells a simple lee loader reload kit for this caliber. Both Sierra and hornady sell .311 bullets. I use Norma brass. Varget 44 grains. Sierra 150 grain spire point .311. Can't beat it for $130 rifle $40 scope. Great deer rifle

[Tempest 455]

Ditto on some of the comments on here. I have spent probably too much time trying to make a Mosin accurate for mid range distances. One thing I found, the Mosin (at least my combination) likes some upward pressure at the front of the stock on the barrel. Cork or canvas works well for this.

To date its a little over 1 MOA out to 400 yards. I think that's the limit on my rifle with a stock barrel.

[Deer_Freak]

I bedded the barrel of my 90/31 with strips I cut from the cork of a wine bottle. Just a few inches around the fore end of the stock will improve accuracy. The Finns bedded the Mosin Nagants they stole from the Russians with cork. Cork bedding seems to work well for everyone.