This is why you always have enough on hand.


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SaxonPig
February 9, 2013, 09:47 AM
An industry spokesman is reporting that the ammo companies are running at 100% production capacity and are turning out over a billion rounds per week. But it is not enough to meet demand. Military calibers are getting priority and that's why some calibers are not to be found at all.

The military orders are filled first, police orders go second, commercial orders are at the back of the bus. Primers and other components are used for ammo production before any are allocated for commercial sale. There are no primers being sold through commercial channels at this time.

At this point he is predicting a 6-9 month wait for this situation to improve.

Speaking for myself again, I understand the panic rush on guns and magazines that are under fire, but every round of ammo in every caliber vanishing from the dealers' shelves overnight baffles me. I guess once the panic sets in, they buy everything in sight.

Checking my shelves, I have about 20,000 rounds of centerfire ammo in all calibers; 5,000 rounds of 22 Long Rifle; and about 8,000 various primers. No idea if I will be able to find any bullets. Maybe cast lead will be available, but at what price is unimaginable, and any jacketed bullets are unlikely to be found for a while. In any event, I feel confident that I am good for at least a couple years (save possibly the bullet shortage) so I feel no desire to fight the current mass of humanity at a show (skipping one today) just to pay outrageous prices (I see $80 bricks of 22 ammo selling, not just asking).

This is why I have been saying for many years that one should always have enough ammo on hand to get through a prolonged shortage. It happened in 2008, and again 2012-13. We know the reason: political concerns. This WILL happen, again.

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docsleepy
February 9, 2013, 09:51 AM
Or the alternative: a press, primers, powder and projectiles.

Four more people in line to learn how to reload. Gave a list of "things to buy and where to get them most inexpensively" to another fella at the range yesterday.

SaxonPig
February 9, 2013, 09:57 AM
You still need to have enough components on hand. Reloading is great but right now there is a real problem in getting powder and primers. When ammo is in short supply so are reloading materials so my advice remains the same.

vtail
February 9, 2013, 10:07 AM
You still need to have enough components on hand. Reloading is great but right now there is a real problem in getting powder and primers. When ammo is in short supply so are reloading materials so my advice remains the same.
Powder and primers I have. What I can't find are bullets. I always thought those would be relatively easy to find.

Learned my lesson for next time.

Taurus 617 CCW
February 9, 2013, 10:08 AM
I just picked up 400 primers last weekend. The store I was in had magnum pistol and rifle primers but not standard ones. I was shopping for magnum 209 primers for the shotgun and found them too. Just like the last four years, we are in the middle of a rush. Get what you can when its available but know that it will return to normal in due time. That's when I started resupplying things that were hard to find during the rush.

beatledog7
February 9, 2013, 10:13 AM
For once I feel sort of justified in having accumulated brass, bought powder, primers, and bullets beyond my actual need. I've been able to help out a few folks who needed something, I've gotten a couple of things in return.

Wasn't that a big part of how this great nation got off the ground?

Deltaboy
February 9, 2013, 10:15 AM
It affecting 150 Civil War events because it is getting harder to get and afford Black powder for our cannons.

vito
February 9, 2013, 10:18 AM
I wanted to get started in reloading before this latest craziness began. But by the time I received the press I ordered, plus the dies and a few other items, powder and primers were no where to be found. I started this a few months ago, and just last week found a store that had primers and I bought two boxes of 1,000 each. They actually had five boxes and I was tempted to buy them all, and probably should have, but at the moment I felt like it would not be right to buy everything he had when I have not even started actually reloading yet. I guess by the standards of the readers of this forum I have almost no ammo, i.e., about 1,600 rounds of the three calibers I normally shoot plus about another 1,600 of 22LR. Just speculation, but I wonder if things would have been totally different had Romney been elected last November. It may turn out that Barack Obama is the best thing that ever happened for the ammo manufacturers.

Krogen
February 9, 2013, 10:21 AM
One key benefit to reloading vs. factory ammo: Your stash of powders and primers can generally be used in multiple cartridges. Same with bullets, but to a lesser extent. This gives you a lot of flexibility when you need ammo. Of course, the more cartridges you need to feed, the bigger the advantage.

Redlg155
February 9, 2013, 10:24 AM
If this gets worse I'm going to start stocking up on charcoal, saltpeter (the stuff they put in your food in Basic Training), and sulfur. Might even have to melt down some toy soldiers.

NHCraigT
February 9, 2013, 11:49 AM
Aside from reloading: Consider getting into bullet casting boys & girls.

SaxonPig
February 9, 2013, 12:55 PM
Lead bullets might remain available (but I bet the scalpers will try to jack their profits) but any jacketed bullets will be MIA for the time being.

AethelstanAegen
February 9, 2013, 02:27 PM
Reloading is great but right now there is a real problem in getting powder and primers.

I went to the "Nation's Gun Show" in Chantilly, VA yesterday. I think I may have purchased the last 1000 box of large pistol primers in the entire show. There was a huge line at the one table selling powder. I'm glad that at this point, I'm only reloading black powder cartridges (BP still being available from my source) but most other powders are gone from stores. I think all the new, panic buyers are buying up most of the exorbitantly priced manufactured ammo and all of us previous gun owners are unwilling to pay those prices and so are having to buy up the reloading supplies. Luckily I've been so busy recently, I haven't had as much time to go shooting so I'm burning through my supplies slower than I normally might.

22-rimfire
February 9, 2013, 02:32 PM
I think if you shoot or likely to shoot firearms, you should maintain an adequate supply of ammunition on hand to weather any short term reduction in availability. But it is a free country and how much you choose to keep on hand or not is an individual decision.

Reminds me of people who buy the tiny bottles of aspirn or whatever when they can buy it so much cheaper per unit if they buy a larger volume.

So if you maintain an ammunition cache, do you also maintain a cache of over the counter medication, food, and perishables used daily like toilet paper?? I suspect the two go hand in hand.

788Ham
February 9, 2013, 02:43 PM
Over the last 3 or 4 months, I've been able to procure some primers, a K here another K there, nothing like a year ago. The same scenario for powders, if 2 lbs. are available, I get it. One place I keep checking has gotten in some powder, I get called, I go get it, kept to one lb. purchases at this time, I can understand that, just so I can get mine. IF/WHEN things lighten up, those habits are going to change for me, 4 or 8 lb. containers from here on out, not getting caught with my knickers down again! :evil:

BullfrogKen
February 9, 2013, 02:57 PM
After the last stockout I made it a point to buy 1k worth of the primer types I use once every 4 or 6 weeks. And I began buying powder by the 8 lb jugs for the powders I use most.

I am seeing components make their way through the supply chain. Right now its just not meeting demand.

Redlg155
February 9, 2013, 03:59 PM
, do you also maintain a cache of over the counter medication, food, and perishables used daily like toilet paper??

Actually no, I frequently run out if TP.:D

GBExpat
February 9, 2013, 04:16 PM
So if you maintain an ammunition cache, do you also maintain a cache of over the counter medication, food, and perishables used daily like toilet paper??

Absolutely! Plus 5gal jugs of "wash" water and 1gal jugs of distilled.

... and I completed my primary ammo stock-up by ~2007, mostly case-lots of milsurp along with a decent supply of commercial ammo and reloading components.

BHP FAN
February 9, 2013, 04:23 PM
I've got enough for my lifetime, except .22, I'm down to about a brick.

huntsman
February 9, 2013, 04:31 PM
I've got components for shotgun, ammo for my pistolas and 4k in .22lr (which is what I shoot the least) so life's good for me. Are competitive shooters hurting yet?

Lex Luthier
February 9, 2013, 04:45 PM
Excellent topic, near and dear.

There are caches of necessary materiel and there are piles of junk. Security, health/ sanitation/ sustenance, THEN comfort: in that order. As you fill the shelves of your load out closet and secure yourself against the impending zombie onslaught, consider what proportion of your investment has gone toward the above categories and adjust accordingly. Video games etc. will become instant shims.

It would be a real bummer to have 20k rounds put away and forget the water, the carbs and the bleach. Perhaps a small library of information specific to one's situation might also be helpful.

heron
February 9, 2013, 04:51 PM
Some components are available at gunrunnerauctions dot com. I didn't look at specifics or price. Look in the '24-7' auction.

montanaoffroader
February 9, 2013, 04:57 PM
I'm OK on most stuff, including .22LR. I am mostly a recreational shooter and I have a fair bit of reloading stuff on hand. The only thing I am short on is .44 Magnum brass but I've been able to find some here and there.

I have enough 9mm and 9x18 to last me a while, and I have a good sized stockpile of .357 and .38 special. Plenty of stuff for the hunting rifles and shotguns as well.

Once things ease up a bit I will probably pick up a few more primers as they have pretty much disappeared from the shelves around here. I have enough for now but if this stretches out for more than a year I may have to cut back on my range trips.

BullfrogKen
February 9, 2013, 05:13 PM
Yes, it's hitting us competitors, too

gym
February 9, 2013, 05:20 PM
I have enough to withstand an attack, the problem with that is that we have no body armor, nor would my wife spend money on such a device without a divorce wiping out my ammo suppy first, Nor bullett proof glass, nor enough people to defend aginst very much. if the zombies come we would need to band together with our neighboors in order to get by.
This would not be the biggest problem.Ammo is coming down. I have whitnessed it the last few weeks, it's back around if you look, even at the peak I paid $22 for 45 caliber at the vero beach shooting range. It was $55 at the show The 40 caliber seems the hardest to find, good thing I only have 1 40, also 9mm is hard the ast few weeks, but the range is stocked. i have a couple boxes of 380, and 38, also I think a box of 32 silvertips i don't want and would trade it for 9mm or 40. or 45 if anyone is local, just PM me and I will look if you are intersted.I probablly will get a gun to fit the calibers lol, which is what usually whathappens, anyone else find 40 scarce?

savanahsdad
February 9, 2013, 05:22 PM
after the shortage of "08"-"09" HandLoader Magazine said "hats off to Remington" as they were the only one with a dedicated line for primers for us hand loaders, I would think that is true now too,

BHP FAN
February 9, 2013, 05:25 PM
I have enough powder, primers, and lead, and molds for all my calibers, an electric pot and one for over a propane stove. now I just need the zombies to be patient enough for me to make up some ammo for them.

goon
February 9, 2013, 06:31 PM
The local ammo shortage where I am hasn't caught up with the nation-wide panic. I was able to pick up some .22, .38 Special, and a couple boxes of .308 over the past few weeks. When people realize what is going on, .22LR will be in pretty short supply in these parts.
The LGS owner and I discuss this weekly. He is in a tough situation because he realizes that once his supplies run out, he won't be able to replace them. But even with having to bring everything in by plane and no ability to replace right now at any price, his prices still aren't what you could call price gouging.

chipcom
February 9, 2013, 09:41 PM
Powder and primers I have. What I can't find are bullets. I always thought those would be relatively easy to find.

Learned my lesson for next time.
The nice thing about bullets is that you can make them yourself. ;)

izhevsk
February 9, 2013, 10:41 PM
At the local Walmart this morning while picking up some cleaning patches, I was surprised to see several boxes of 9MM, .38 special, .40S&W, .30-06, quite a lot of Tula .223, and for the first time I've ever seen at this location a decent stack of XM193 5.56 all at very reasonable prices. This is really the first time since early December I've actually seen anything on the shelves there. The guy who rang me up was surprised they had anything on the shelves as well - hopefully supply is starting to catch up here.

smartshooter.45
February 9, 2013, 11:16 PM
The shortage has been in full swing here since the end of December. Most any ammo that is available is $1 per round whether its center fire rifle or pistol.

I went in to my local Wally World last week just to see what they had on the shelves. I had been told that shipments come in between 8 and 10 pm so I made it there at 9pm.

The good: They had (4) 100rd bulk packs of Winchester 20ga field and target for $25 each.

The bad: Every other bulk pack of every caliber was gone. They had a few high end center-fire rifle hunting cartridges but they were all about $30 for 20rds. They had zero 22lr.

gym
February 10, 2013, 12:05 AM
I posted someplace else i got 556 for 12 dollars per box of 20 yesterday and 12 gauge for 3 bucks for 5 runds last week, So we are around 60 cents a round, 45's were 22 dolars a box.Wallmart puts them out at 8-9 pm in vero

Skylerbone
February 10, 2013, 01:15 AM
I wish the Mods would delete all these threads! The "Industry Insider" aka "Doug Ross" is someone no one seems to know, or even heard of before his "Report on the State of the Industry" showed up all over this and other forums. The report came out on Jan. 25th, 2013 after a claimed meeting of the industry in Texas. What top secret details were discussed that were not readily made available at SHOT show a week earlier? Was no one aside from Mr. Ross invited? The National Shooting Sports Foundation doesn't agree with his numbers and they are the industry. Who would you believe?

Skylerbone
February 10, 2013, 01:24 AM
PS: our military does not use commercially produced ammunition or SMKs or VMax or Gold Dots. Contracted ammo is just that and has no affect on availability of what you and I shoot with the exception of those limitations of current production. Still, consumers account for 3/4s of all ammunition sales annually.

Lets use our heads and due diligence before spreading conjecture. There are shortages yes but how large and for how long are not the stuff of Internet "reports" such as this.

ol' scratch
February 10, 2013, 10:17 AM
The only thing that I really need at this point is rifle powder. I did most of my reloading this summer when I could find components and have a good stock of ammo. I just want to work up some match loads for the type 1 National Match M1 I picked up at the north store this fall. Keep your eyes peeled. I just picked up 2000 small pistol primers a week ago for $32 a thousand. I picked up some hardcast 9mm bullets too.

Nanook
February 10, 2013, 05:48 PM
This is the third time it's happened during my "career" so I wasn't surprised. I remember the shortages during Slick Willie's term.

Then the shortages during this clown's first term. I buy here and there and it adds up quickly if you're careful.

The only thing I'm short on is .303 brass and bullets, and I'm really not too bad there. I don't shoot that as much as the other calibers.

Prices right now are absolutely insane, and I'm in a position that I don't have to participate in the madness.

I'm a big fan of Varget, and it is just about unobtainable lately. I did find a lb here and there during the build-up to this craze so I'm okay there too. Even reloading dies are going berserk on Gunbroker. You could put .223 on a box of Kleenex and get $100 for it. LOL

Skylerbone
February 10, 2013, 09:02 PM
Well it's good to know some guy, somewhere on the Internet is telling us what not a single person reported after returning from SHOT Show. Too bad no industry leaders attended SHOT to give everyone the news. Funny, I could have sworn I saw pictures in the subforum but perhaps THR Moderators were up late with Photoshop.

Carry on with the rumors folks, fiction is always fun!

dragon813gt
February 10, 2013, 09:39 PM
Aside from reloading: Consider getting into bullet casting boys & girls.

This is self serving but please don't encourage this. Next go around lead will be in short supply. I don't need or want that ;)


Brought to you by TapaTalk

Ignition Override
February 10, 2013, 10:20 PM
An 8-lb. jug of 3031 powder at yesterday's Nashville show was priced at about $180-190.

joeschmoe
February 10, 2013, 10:54 PM
I haven't even loaded my first round yet, but I've been squirreling away parts and supplies for a few years now. Read a few books, and keep reading these forums. Along with regular ammo and now loading supplies I know I will at least last until production returns to normal. Should be less than a year.
With the way on demand delivery systems work nowadays, pretty much any thing can be interrupted in this way for 6-12 months. For food to fuel or basic everyday supplies.

I'm building a pond this spring. Water is not something we can do without for long.

joeschmoe
February 10, 2013, 10:56 PM
This is self serving but please don't encourage this. Next go around lead will be in short supply. I don't need or want that ;)


Brought to you by TapaTalk
Just remember the keel of a sail boat usually contains a few hundred pounds of lead. ;)

silicosys4
February 11, 2013, 01:00 PM
Just remember the keel of a sail boat usually contains a few hundred pounds of lead. ;)

Lol, look at every commercial and recreational boat over 30 feet or so. with a few exceptions, they all have a half ton or more of lead in the bottom of them.
There will be no lead shortage.

jaxbeach904
February 11, 2013, 01:14 PM
Remember, all this hi-$ stuff is sending a REAL message to our members of the US congress. Many people REALLY care about guns and ammo. They care enough to vote, to bring friends to the polls, and that should keep the Republicans, at least, "in line", and probably give at least SOME Democrats pause about just blindly leaping on the funeral pyre of outlawing any type of guns, or taxing ammo.
Well it may keep Repubs in line and make some Dems pause, but depending on the issue. Sure, there might not be an AWB, but if we concede mags and so forth then we just open the floodgates. We need to stand strong on this one and not give them an inch. This country was founded by the gun, and has remained "free" because of it. We Americans cherish our 2a, and ill be damned if some big city politicians (with security details) trample upon it simply for political gain. There is a reason people move out of their big cities and go to places like TX AZ FL.... If liberal enclaves were so great, why are people in such a hurry to leave??

SilentStalker
February 11, 2013, 02:34 PM
If this is true then I just do not see where all of this ammo is going. I mean seriously. They say that when we were fighting in Vietnam we were only using 2 million rounds a month and this guy is saying they are cranking out over a billion rounds a week? Sorry, I don't buy it. if they were making a billion rounds a week there would be no shortage but that is just my opinion. I also do not understand why in the world the military would get theirs first from a business perspective as often times the profit margin off of a government contract is nothing to the amount of profit earned on the civilian market.

silicosys4
February 11, 2013, 02:39 PM
If this is true then I just do not see where all of this ammo is going. I mean seriously. They say that when we were fighting in Vietnam we were only using 2 million rounds a month and this guy is saying they are cranking out over a billion rounds a week? Sorry, I don't buy it. if they were making a billion rounds a week there would be no shortage but that is just my opinion. I also do not understand why in the world the military would get theirs first from a business perspective as often times the profit margin off of a government contract is nothing to the amount of profit earned on the civilian market.


that's why

SilentStalker
February 11, 2013, 02:47 PM
^^^6Yes, but as others have mention the military does not use common civilian market ammo nor do I really see them using billions and billions of rounds. Sorry, I just do not see this as being legit.

Hondo 60
February 11, 2013, 02:53 PM
What I can't find are bullets. I always thought those would be relatively easy to find.

Depends on caliber & if you "have" to have a certain brand.

223 is gettin rare as hen's teeth, no matter the brand.
But I just bought 2500 of my favorite 38/357 125 gr HPs at normal prices. (no different than 6 months ago)

SaxonPig
February 11, 2013, 05:30 PM
Skylerbone- Thank you for your helpful input. A question, if I may? Are you saying that 100% of military contract ammo is produced OUTSIDE of plants that produce commercial ammo? If that's true, then you are right about military orders not affecting civilian sales. But there's still the issue of law enforcement orders, which I believe are produced in the same manufacturing plants that supply commercial outlets. They are way up recently, largely due to orders from federal agencies, and this most certainly WILL affect commercial ammo production. Even non-police calibers will be affected as production shifts away from civilian calibers to devote manufacturing resources to the large police orders.

As for the credentials of the individual I quoted, I admit I have no verifiable info regarding the veracity of his statements. However, might I suggest a more congenial approach to raising your concerns? The ranting about having all such posts deleted because you don't like them is a bit much.

Have a wonderful day.

HankR
February 11, 2013, 05:40 PM
Reloaders are magical don't ya know -- everything is always on hand, available, costs less than dirt, takes seconds of mindless labor where the machine does all the work and the results are more reliable, effective, and accurate than any factory loads...

The guys with Dillon's are always bragging ;)

JTHunter
February 11, 2013, 06:03 PM
The guys with Dillon's are always bragging.

I kinda like my Lee Turrent press for my .243 and .380. ;)

Voyager
February 11, 2013, 06:49 PM
Checking my shelves, I have about 20,000 rounds of centerfire ammo in all calibers; 5,000 rounds of 22 Long Rifle; and about 8,000 various primers. No idea if I will be able to find any bullets. Maybe cast lead will be available, but at what price is unimaginable, and any jacketed bullets are unlikely to be found for a while. In any event, I feel confident that I am good for at least a couple years (save possibly the bullet shortage) so I feel no desire to fight the current mass of humanity at a show (skipping one today) just to pay outrageous prices (I see $80 bricks of 22 ammo selling, not just asking).

This is why I have been saying for many years that one should always have enough ammo on hand to get through a prolonged shortage. It happened in 2008, and again 2012-13. We know the reason: political concerns. This WILL happen, again.

I have similar amounts on hand, in fact I have over 20,000 rounds of Winchester Ranger 9mm in various flavors stocked away. I look at the whiners who are complaining of "panic" and just have to laugh. What were these folks thinking anyway, that they'd always be able to run down to wallyworld and buy a box of ammo for ten bucks?

I bought most of my Ranger 9mm ammo between $7.40 & $14.00 a box, including several thousand rounds of RA9TA, RA9T, & RA9TP+. Folks had best wake up quick, things are not going back to the way they were for at least the remainder of this presidents second term(elections have consequences).

All I can say is go drop in on SGammo & Ammo To Go and try and find yourself some 9mm ammo.

Ky Larry
February 11, 2013, 07:13 PM
I'm not magical and I don't have a Progressive press. I'm off work after foot surgery. I can either watch brain rotting daytime T.V. or load ammo on my old RockChucker single stage. I've got buckets of brass I'm slowly wading thru. I have plenty of components. I got Obamanated once.He won't get me again.

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