10mm or .45 1911


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Spike_akers
February 10, 2013, 02:42 PM
Which would you choose in a 1911, and why? I'm going to be buying another gun, and the one I want comes in both calibers.. which would you choose for CC?? I know the .45 is typically cheaper in general, but I'm really considering the 10mm.

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Thompsoncustom
February 10, 2013, 02:55 PM
Depends on what bullet weight your gonna run and if the .45 1911 can handle .45 super. at 185gr and 230gr .45 super and 10mm do about the same power wise but the 10mm does better with any weights below 185gr I think. Both are great rounds and either will serve you well.

rcmodel
February 10, 2013, 03:06 PM
I never did think the 1911 was a good platform for the 10mm.

Even Colt had problems with the Delta Elite cracking frames when they tried it years ago.

If you can't get-R-done with a .45?

More muzzle blast, flash, and recoil is not going to help you any.

rc

Zardaia
February 10, 2013, 03:25 PM
I'd stick with a quality tried and true model in .45. Unless you've got the funds to gamble, or just really really want the 10mm, then to each his own.

meanmrmustard
February 10, 2013, 03:40 PM
45 ACP.

I favor the 10mm Auto over the .45 for really everything...OTHER than in a 1911.

harrygunner
February 10, 2013, 03:44 PM
The Colt 10mm 1911 issue was fixed decades ago. Don't forget the first airplane flight was 120 feet and early rockets blew up at liftoff.

Square cut holes near thin areas of metal was a bad idea before the 10mm showed up. The 10mm actually improved 1911's. My .45 ACP frame came with properly rounded upper corners for the slide stop.

Someone asked Richard Heine about 1911's ability to handle 10mm rounds: http://pistolsmith.com/10mm/4763-question-mr-heinie-regarding-10mm-longevity.html

Mr. Heine's quote: "Mine is the one gun I would never get rid of."

In another thread, he said: "If I could only own one Pistol, it would be a very hard choice, but I believe in the end I would keep the 10 and let the others go.

I've shot real 10mm rounds in my 1911 since 2009. It's looking good so far.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/harrygunner/10mm/10mm_commander_bottom.jpg

SDGlock23
February 10, 2013, 04:30 PM
I would stick to a .45 if you want a 1911. The only 10mm 1911 I had was a jamomatic, a Kimber Eclipse.

Texan Scott
February 10, 2013, 05:10 PM
I'd need a REASON to go 10mm. It would be expensive, and I would generally expect ammo and parts&mags to be a bit harder to come by at times.

If your reason for wanting it is just that you want it, and that's enough to justify the extra for you, go for it. Me, if I wanted to pistol hunt hogs or something, I'd rather have a 45 at home and a 44 in the field, and take my extra expense that way.

To each his own. It's a free country.... at least in places :)

tuj
February 10, 2013, 05:14 PM
45ACP and 1911 is like Mom and Apple pie.

BlindJustice
February 10, 2013, 05:14 PM
OP. never stated

A) What do you want to do with the 1911 wherther 10m or 45 ACP?

B) what other handguns if any do you have?

Me? I've got a 1911 5' 45 as well as a S&W 625 45 ACP

So I'd go for the 10mm but really a CCO format in .45 ACP woud be higher on my short llist.

Randall

Spike_akers
February 10, 2013, 06:03 PM
OP. never stated

A) What do you want to do with the 1911 wherther 10m or 45 ACP?

B) what other handguns if any do you have?

Me? I've got a 1911 5' 45 as well as a S&W 625 45 ACP

So I'd go for the 10mm but really a CCO format in .45 ACP woud be higher on my short llist.

Randall
the only other handgun i own (hard for me to come by since im not 21 yet, this will be my first handgun purchased through a shop/dealer) is a sig P229 in .357 sig... i'll more than likely be getting rid of it though.. not that i dont like it, i have just been told by my.. er... accountant... that if i get another gun, one of my others have to go.. cant say that i have any rifles i can part with.. but i can part with the sig.. i plan on getting my CC and plan on carrying it.. i'm ok with ammo price, since i have a buddy who reloads everything we shoot.. so thats not a problem...

WoodchuckAssassin
February 10, 2013, 06:12 PM
45.

I already own a bunch of ammo, have the reloading dies, and well...I just love a nice, fat 45.

el Godfather
February 10, 2013, 06:21 PM
10 for two reasons:
1- more power, and
2- I have one in 45 already.

mljdeckard
February 10, 2013, 06:33 PM
I would like a 10mm long-slide one day for hunting and woods carry, but it's a ways down the list.

ZeSpectre
February 10, 2013, 06:49 PM
Simple test
1) Do you reload?
YES----->get a 10mm
NO------>get a .45ACP (then learn to reload, then get a 10mm)

HKGuns
February 10, 2013, 06:56 PM
The 1911 works best with either .38 Super, not readily available anymore, and 45 ACP. There is little to no need to look beyond 45 ACP in the 1911 platform.

Evil One
February 10, 2013, 07:06 PM
I have been thru a few 1911s in 45, my Delta Elite isn't going anywhere.


Jim

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

AKMtnRunner
February 10, 2013, 09:24 PM
For what's it worth, I'm considering getting out of the 10mm and getting into the 45 and 460 rowland combo. I just don't see the 10mm being notably more effective than a 45 for social purposes. And for the woods, you're just one kit away from being able to send 230 grains as fast as the 10mm can send a 180 grains.

surjimmy
February 10, 2013, 11:51 PM
If you are wanting it for just SD and range, I would get the 45. If you want more uses out of it for instance hunting I would go with the 10mm.

Snowdog
February 11, 2013, 12:09 AM
Already having two fullsize 1911s, I've long drooled over the prospect of owning a 10mm on the 1911 platform.

However, in all reality, I believe I would actually look more towards a 1911 chambered for the near-nuclear .460 Rowland rather than the 10mm. To this end, I've even looked into some conversion units that would allow me to convert my Series 1 Kimber Classic Custom from .45acp to .460 Rowland.

So all things considered, I think I would either go with a 10mm on a different platform that accommodates double stack (higher capacity) magazines such as the G20 SF or convert what I already have to the .460 Rowland.

I would like to point out though that I personally would not choose to carry either concealed on my own volition. I feel compacts are far better suited for that.
If I were carrying OWB on the trails though, I think a 10mm or .460 Rowland (or even .45acp) would be the cat's meow.

bannockburn
February 11, 2013, 12:33 AM
I like my M1911s in .45ACP, though I have been known to go the .38 Super/9mm. route every now and then. I'm really not interested in the 10mm. in the M1911 platform.

Farnorthdan
February 11, 2013, 01:15 AM
If you reload 10mm is not a problem and a fun round to shoot, very flat shooting and better at longer ranges than the .45acp. As a reloader the 10 is very fun to mess with load wise, I also like that you can use one die for two rounds.

jmr40
February 11, 2013, 06:35 AM
10mm is a great round, but in a 1911 you want 45 ACP.

wally
February 11, 2013, 07:19 AM
My experience with the 10mm in a Delta Elite, Glock 20 and EAA Witness Elite is the brass flies so far its hard to find half of it. So if you are counting on reloading to keep operating costs down its not likely to happen.

Robert101
February 11, 2013, 01:04 PM
10mm is way more versital than the 45automatic. I have both in 1911 and yes I like shooting the 10mm a lot more. Hand loading is also the way to shoot hot and mild loads in the 10.

jack44
February 11, 2013, 02:39 PM
The .45 is a man stopper! bigger wider bullet then the 10mm

mljdeckard
February 11, 2013, 03:26 PM
^^You do realize that the 10mm has more energy @100 yards than a .45 has at the muzzle, right? If both rounds are using premium jhp bullets, the difference in expanded diameter is negligible, if any. No one has ever said the 10mm is a poor manstopper.

AKMtnRunner
February 11, 2013, 03:35 PM
Energy isn't everything. What each projectile does with it, is.

mljdeckard
February 11, 2013, 04:10 PM
So, if both expand to a near-identical diameter....

mljdeckard
February 11, 2013, 04:26 PM
One day.....

http://www.stiguns.com/the-sti-perfect-10/

SDGlock23
February 11, 2013, 08:30 PM
Also the .45 ACP can shoot the .45 Super, all you need is to put in tougher springs. I load for the .45 Super and it's good stuff. 200gr JHP @ 1350 fps, 230gr JHP at close to 1250 fps, and a 255gr hardcast at near 1200 fps, or 280gr hardcast at around 1100 fps. Not quite 460 Rowland, but good enough and you really don't need a new barrel.

Plus, driving JHP bullets faster than they're designed doesn't always equal better. Even with .45 Super you end up pushing .45 ACP designed bullets so fast they come apart and it negatively effects penetration. Of course for hunting, hardcast is better anyway.

Same with 10mm and .40. Warm .40/warm 10mm can push bullets to the point of bullet failure and lower penetration, so I'm not real sure why the 10mm crowd is always wanting faster and faster when the bullets aren't designed for it.

HKGuns
February 11, 2013, 09:00 PM
I guess it boils down to what you have at your disposal. If I need more than a 1911 in 45 ACP I usually step right up to one of these.

http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v47/p304326277-5.jpg

mljdeckard
February 11, 2013, 09:30 PM
So, you think that premium jhp ammo for 10mm is using bullets that weren't designed for that velocity?

Fishslayer
February 12, 2013, 10:51 AM
I would stick to a .45 if you want a 1911. The only 10mm 1911 I had was a jamomatic, a Kimber Eclipse.

That was...

ummm... never mind. I'll just be over here...:evil:

SDGlock23
February 12, 2013, 11:19 AM
With perhaps one or two exceptions, there really aren't any 10mm bullets designed to take full advantage of warm 10mm/warm .40 velocity. For example you can find .357" bullets designed specifically for the .357 Mag, and others that are better designed for use in the 38 Special. Or if you want a fast JHP in a 454 Casull, you could choose the 240gr XTP Mag, which will hold together much better than the 250gr XTP which is rated for far less velocity. Another good example would be .355" 9mm bullets compared to .355" 357 Sig bullets designed for the extra velocity.


You don't really see this with the 10mm. Most .400" JHP bullets are designed around "typical" .40 S&W velocity. This doesn't mean that you can't drive them faster, since people obviously do. Driving them somewhat faster usually doesn't present a problem, but when people equate faster to being better, they often drive the bullets too fast. This can result in bullet fragmentation, or complete failure and almost always results in less penetration, not more. This even applies to FMJ and hardcast bullets, since extra speed even in those can result in less penetration, it just depends.

ATLDave
February 12, 2013, 11:37 AM
And if one has a Fackler-ian view of how handgun rounds incapacitate, then loss of penetration in exchange for faster expansion or larger temporary wound cavity is a bad thing. Of course, if one does not share that view, then the extra speed may be desired.

SDGlock23
February 13, 2013, 10:43 AM
I don't have a problem with speed as long as it's not beyond what the bullet can withstand.

A few posts that back up what I'm saying:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8737479&postcount=60

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8738536&postcount=66

I don't have the means to conduct the highest quality, most well rounded tests, but here's an example. Both 200gr bullets, both fired from a .40 S&W. The one on the left is a 200gr Nosler JHP with a muzzle velocity of around 1100 fps (4" bbl). The bullet on the right is a 200gr Hornady XTP with a muzzle velocity of around 1,225 fps (6" barrel). While the XTP did shed some weight, about 15-20gr, but obviously penetrated much better than the Nosler:

http://imageshack.us/a/img812/96/40sw200grnosler1100fps2.jpg

I'm not saying the Nosler wouldn't work, but I'll take the XTP if I'm going in the woods.

Another example is driving .45 ACP bullets too fast, this time in the .45 Super (G21 Gen4 w/KKM bbl). The fragmented bullet is a 230gr Speer Gold Dot with a muzzle velocity of around 1200 fps and the other intact bullet is a 250gr Gold Dot that has a muzzle velocity of around 1050-1100 fps. Both are similar in their hollow cavities, but I've found the deeper cavity Gold Dots don't hold up nearly as well as shallow cavity Gold Dots. In this case, 1200 fps is a bit much where as 1050-1100 wasn't. Oh and the 250gr Gold Dot driven at warm .45 Colt velocities will perform just like the 230gr Gold Dot shown below, it'll come apart. I like the 230gr Gold Dot, but I'm going to keep it below 1100 fps. In the .45 ACP, Power Pistol will get it moving at close to 1,000 fps, which is just about right.

http://imageshack.us/a/img850/5391/supergolddots.jpg

ATLDave
February 13, 2013, 11:03 AM
Right, right, I get that. My point is that some theories of incapacitation don't view fragmentation as a problem, nor do they view penetration beyond a certain amount as beneficial.

Expressed another way, depending on how you think bullets incapacitate, you will want bullets to do different things. I'm not expressing an opinion about which terminal ballistics theories are correct, just pointing out that they drive what you think "good" performance is.

orionengnr
February 13, 2013, 11:21 AM
I own 1911s in both .45acp and 10mm, and I handload for both.

An alloy-framed, Commander-sized 1911 in .45 acp is a nice size and weight for carry or range use (~28 oz.) At that, you can get an alloy-frame in 3" size as well (24 oz.). In 10mm, you need a steel frame (36-38 oz.), which (for me) takes it out of EDC consideration. To clarify, I have done it, but my back protests these days.

Edited to add: I see that in your follow-up post, you mention CC use. So that may be something to consider. While my 10mm is a Commander-size, to get the most out of the 10mm, most recommend a 5" barrel. A full-size steel 1911 puts us up to 40-42 oz.; all quoted weights are empty. Some people carry a 5" steel 1911; if you wish to join them, more power to you. Just examine your options and do your homework before you commit.

You can find .45acp brass any and everywhere. Finding 10mm range brass is like finding a unicorn's sunglasses. Plan on buying new stuff from Starline or buying factory ammo and shooting it off for brass.

I own the 10mm because it is unique, it is fun, and because I can. It is an expensive and exotic toy. If I were to sell one tomorrow it would be the 10mm, without question.

dprice3844444
February 13, 2013, 11:25 AM
buy a 10mm with 45 conversion bbl and spring

Buck13
February 13, 2013, 11:36 AM
I'd need a REASON to go 10mm. It would be expensive,

Not very expensive from these guys.

https://us.armscor.com/products/

Reports of rapid copper fouling when new. Are fire-lapping bullets available in .401?

Peter M. Eick
February 15, 2013, 06:46 PM
I have 10mm and 45acp 1911's. Looking back on it, I would recommend you stay with the 45acp.

10mm promotes going for power and while the 1911 can take it. it was not meant for it. You will suffer more damage and problems in the long run. Stay with a 45.

Ala Tom
February 15, 2013, 07:05 PM
I have considered the 45ACP and the 10mm but they don't seem to offer anyhting I don't have in a 357 Sig and a 40S&W. I will probably get the 45 ACP in the form of a Glock 30 which I have fired and like quite a bit. It is much better for concealing than a 1911. I think the 1911 was very good a few decades ago but many other designs are better now.

If I wake up rich someday, I'll get a 1911 in 45ACP just to celebrate its historical significance. But today for self defense I think the 40 S&W is sufficient.

farm23
February 15, 2013, 07:10 PM
I have always owned 45s in 1911 but have shot the 10. They are both very good but I have a lot of 45 all 230gr so I will stick with what I have. If I was to start over I would consider the 10 but ammo for the 45 is easier to get and I also have 45 revolvers.

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