NFA Trust original mistakenly sent to the ATF - What to do?


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ilsrwy27
February 10, 2013, 04:14 PM
Long story short: I purchased my first NFA item yesterday from a local in state seller using a revocable NFA trust. We went to a Class III FFL to handle the paperwork and make sure everything was done corectly. It turned out two copies of the trust needed to be done so I handled them the original and somehow was handed a copy back. I did not realize it until putting the papers away today so I now only have a copy of my trust papers in my possession while a copy and the original have been mailed to the ATF.

Any idea how to proceed to get the original back? From what I have read the papers are sent to Atlanta where they cash the checks and then forward the paperwork to W.Virginia. If that is correct would it be better to contact Alanta and have them return the application or wait until this hits the examiner desk? I am really not familiar with the ATF so any suggestions are welcome.

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Aaron Baker
February 10, 2013, 04:45 PM
This is not legal advice, but practical advice.

It is possible to have multiple originals of things like contracts, so I see no reason that there couldn't be multiple originals of something like a trust. If you were to sign another "original" copy that was identical to the one sent to the ATF, I don't see there being any problems.

Aaron

jmorris
February 10, 2013, 05:09 PM
I just print another copy, have to change the schedule A every time anyway.

Aaron Baker
February 10, 2013, 05:28 PM
A Schedule A is a schedule, which can be changed at any time. A trust is an important legal document, that, theoretically, once signed, becomes THE trust. The trust doesn't exist independently of the document. It IS the document.

So you should be careful about just printing a new one and signing it with a different date each time. You're technically creating a new trust each time with the same name as another already executed trust.

If you want to understand how trusts work past that, you should ask the attorney who drafted your trust.

Aaron

ilsrwy27
February 10, 2013, 06:37 PM
I'm not sure I get this right about making another 'original' but to make it identical to the one that was sent in would involve backdating both the signatures of the grantors / trustees and notarization, something I would assume the notary would be less than willing to do.

jmorris
February 10, 2013, 10:25 PM
Say someone listed in your trust passed away, what would you do at that point?

Donut Destroyer
February 10, 2013, 11:16 PM
If it's a matter of getting back an original document that you need, call the NFA Branch in Falling Waters, Virginia and discuss it with them. That would be where the documents are destined anyway. That would at least be the place to start.

GoingQuiet
February 21, 2013, 06:20 PM
Long story short: I purchased my first NFA item yesterday from a local in state seller using a revocable NFA trust. We went to a Class III FFL to handle the paperwork and make sure everything was done corectly. It turned out two copies of the trust needed to be done so I handled them the original and somehow was handed a copy back. I did not realize it until putting the papers away today so I now only have a copy of my trust papers in my possession while a copy and the original have been mailed to the ATF.

Any idea how to proceed to get the original back? From what I have read the papers are sent to Atlanta where they cash the checks and then forward the paperwork to W.Virginia. If that is correct would it be better to contact Alanta and have them return the application or wait until this hits the examiner desk? I am really not familiar with the ATF so any suggestions are welcome.

1. There is no such thing as a Class III FFL. Why did you go to a dealer? This is a private sale transaction, dealer intervention is not required.

2. Two copies needed to be done? What state requires this?

3. The ATF will destroy the originals once they are done with them.

4. You cannot just "call Atlanta" - Atlanta is the bank that handles the check cashing for ATF.

5. I would call the NFA branch at 304-616-4500 and ask them what to do.

If it's a matter of getting back an original document that you need, call the NFA Branch in Falling Waters, Virginia and discuss it with them. That would be where the documents are destined anyway. That would at least be the place to start.

There is no NFA branch in Falling Waters, Virginia.

There is one division of ATF that handles NFA work and they are in Martinsburg, West Virginia.

ilsrwy27
April 24, 2013, 10:55 AM
Thought I'd give an update on this issue:

After considering the options I thought the best was simply to wait and give time for the paperwork to make its way into the system before calling. I waited about 8 weeks after my check was cashed then called the ATF and talked to the NFA examiner handling my area. He checked his computer and told me my data had been entered in the system but that he had not come around to checking the paperwork and that he would make a copy of the trust and send me the original when he would get to it.

That was two weeks ago so I'm waiting to see what happens next -hopefully it will be an envelope with the original in my mailbox...

Oro
April 24, 2013, 04:43 PM
I would suggest you can be optimistic. I had a similar issue with needing a "favor" from the ATF regarding paperwork about a year ago. The both the ATF lawyer and the clerk I spoke to in WV were helpful and the issue was sorted quickly. The issue could not have been handled better by any measure.

Impureclient
April 25, 2013, 12:37 AM
When I had my trust done, the lawyer made me three copies all exactly the same all signed by me, the lawyer and the notary.
I sent in one copy and kept two for myself. What would make any one of those the "original"?
Is it you had only signed an "original" and then had a xerox copy of that one for the total of two?

ilsrwy27
September 25, 2013, 05:53 AM
Thought I'd give a final update in case this happens to someone else. I had to be out of the country from May onwards so my wife followed up on this. She called the NFA branch again mid August and talked to our examiner to remind him about the trust situation. A couple of weeks later the original trust paperwork showed up in our mailbox. All in all it was easy to get the original trust back and the people we talked to were helpful. We just had to be patient and wait until they got around to checking our paperwork but once they got to it they sent them back to us right away.

medalguy
September 25, 2013, 04:57 PM
Just a bit of advice to anyone with a trust: Just as Aaron Baker said, many legal documents are executed in multiple originals. Most all contracts are done this way so each party has a signed original. There's really no limit on how many signed originals there may be.

When I got my trust, it was sent to me via email, so I simply printed several copies and we signed four original copies. One is in our attorney's file(not the one who drew up the trust), one is for me and my wife, and one for each of our children who are beneficiaries of the trust. All are original signed copies. I then made several copies of the trust and stamped them in red on each page "COPY" so we knew exactly what copy was what. I'd suggest each trust owner do the same.

Bubbles
September 25, 2013, 05:11 PM
The OP's story is actually pretty common and the folks at ATF NFA have gotten used to dealing with it. I bet with eForms now coming online they're hoping that won't happen as much since transferors submit a scanned electronic copy of the transferee's trust.

dprice3844444
September 25, 2013, 06:03 PM
NFA BRANCH
You may contact us at:

244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405

Phone: 304 616-4500
Fax: 304 616-4501

Hours: 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday (except federal holidays

Aaron Baker
September 25, 2013, 06:53 PM
I bet with eForms now coming online they're hoping that won't happen as much since transferors submit a scanned electronic copy of the transferee's trust.

eForms is great and I've used it now for a Form 1 for an SBS, and provide the step-by-step instructions to my trust clients. But I'm a tad worried that it will be short-lived if the new trust restrictions become regulation.

Aaron

Arizona_Mike
September 25, 2013, 10:49 PM
Say someone listed in your trust passed away, what would you do at that point?
Ammend the trust.

I seem to recall a discussion about a week ago where someone mentioned their father was on their trust bin some capacity.

As a general rule, you don't want anyone from an older generation playing an important role in a trust, for obvious reasons . . .

Mike

Bubbles
September 26, 2013, 01:59 PM
eForms is great and I've used it now for a Form 1 for an SBS, and provide the step-by-step instructions to my trust clients. But I'm a tad worried that it will be short-lived if the new trust restrictions become regulation.
It can still be used for F2's and F3's. :D

aubie515
September 26, 2013, 02:12 PM
You should be including the Schedule B/C as well. ATF just contacted me a few weeks ago wanting my Schedule B/C...in the past the B/C was not required, but now it is...even though my Schedule B/C is blank, ATF assistant stated I still needed to provide that information.

Aaron Baker
September 27, 2013, 07:49 AM
I don't draft trusts with a schedule B or C. If your trust doesn't have one, you can't provids it. What is supposed to be listed in those schedules for your trust? Why are they blank? Is this a generic trust?

Aaron

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