statistics: Guns used in self defense?


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lobo9er
February 11, 2013, 12:14 AM
I did a search nothing came up. If anyone has numbers from both sides of the fence it would be helpful. I remember reading a pro-gun # was in the millions, and coming from an anti-gun source it was still hundreds of thousands. I m sure this has and is being discussed if anyone could help me out that would be great thanks.

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Phil Lee
February 11, 2013, 12:29 AM
Search old threads for mention of Kleck -- use Google to search for Kleck site:thehighroad.org

JayBird
February 11, 2013, 01:11 AM
Just start here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

bldsmith
February 11, 2013, 02:14 AM
Here's a gun facts (http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gun_facts.pdf) page that covers a bunch of statistics and gives references. One of the best IRT the OP was president Clinton's commission on this in 1994. Showed 1.4 million with an estimated %50 low reporting. So around 2.4 million per year with most never having to fire a shot.

ScottieG59
February 11, 2013, 02:42 AM
Reporting is definitely not 100%. If I recall it right, collecting better data was one of the Obama Executive Orders.

One additional problem is the lack of details in the figures. Many of the police and private gun owner justified uses of firearms is lumped in along with the criminal statistics.

Even if you try to tally the numbers, you will depend on data collected inconsistently.

In the end, it does not matter what the numbers say. We have the right to defend ourselves and we have the right to have the means to do so. The Constitution recognizes the right to keep and bear arms; it does not create the right. There is no test required to determine if the right used enough to be preserved.

vito
February 11, 2013, 09:14 AM
I am sure that many instances of guns being used to prevent a crime never are reported to authorities. Even where concealed carry is legal, think about the likely hassle if you call 911 with the following: "I was going out to my car when a thug approached me yelling "give me your wallet and car keys". I drew my gun and the perp ran away." The police arrive and ask for a statement, they also ask to see your gun, which might or might not get taken as evidence. You are detained at the scene, or at the station house while your name and vehicle and other identifying characteristics are run through the system to see if YOU are wanted on a warrant or should be a suspect in other crimes. Faced with this possibility, you don't call 911 but continue on your way with the self assurance that you defended yourself and hopefully put the fear of God into a thug who might not try it again. My guess is that this or similar situations happen frequently but never get counted by anyone except the gun owner himself.

BBQJOE
February 11, 2013, 10:11 AM
In the end, it does not matter what the numbers say. We have the right to defend ourselves and we have the right to have the means to do so. The Constitution recognizes the right to keep and bear arms; it does not create the right. There is no test required to determine if the right used enough to be preserved.
This is a good point.
Last night I started to make a post about how tired I am of it seeming that every gun related incident is headline news.
It also seems articles like "The Armed Citizen" should be pages and pages long, so we can distribute them everywhere for everyone to see.
But it probably wouldn't amount to a hill of beans to the anti's.:(

Carl N. Brown
February 11, 2013, 10:19 AM
Summary of the thirteen surveys on DGU listed by Kleck & Gertz 1995.


FREQUENCY OF DEFENSIVE GUN USE
from Kleck and Gertz 1995 Table 1 - Excluded -
Gun Recall Against By Mil
Survey: Year: Area: Sample: Type: Period: Animal: Police:

1. Field 1976 Calif. NiA Hgun [a] No Yes
2. Bordua 1977 Ill. NiA All Ever No No
3. Cambridge 1978 U.S. NiA Hgun Ever No No
4. DMIa 1978 U.S. RgV All Ever No Yes
5. DMIb 1978 U.S. RgV All Ever Yes Yes
6. Hart 1981 U.S. RgV Hgun 5 yr Yes Yes
7. Ohio 1982 Ohio Res Hgun Ever No No
8. Time/CNN 1989 U.S. Own All Ever No Yes
9. Mauser 1990 U.S. Res All 5 yrs. Yes Yes
10. Gallup 1991 U.S. NiA All Ever No No
11. Gallup 1993 U.S. NiA All Ever No Yes
12. L.A. Times 1994 U.S. NiA All Ever No Yes
13. Tarrance 1994 U.S. NiA All 5 yrs. Yes Yes



Defensive question % Who [b] Implied
Survey: Ask of: Ref to: Used: Fired: number DGUs:

1. Field All Rs R [a] 2.9 3,052,717
2. Bordua All Rs R 5.0 n.a. 1,414,544
3. Cambridge Hgun own R 18 12 n.a.
4. DMIa All Rs Hshld 15 6 2,141,512
5. DMIb All Rs Hshld 7 n.a. 1,098,409
6. Hart All Rs Hshld 4 n.a. 1,797,461
7. Ohio Hgun hshld R 6.5 2.6 771,043
8. Time/CNN Gun own Hshld n.a. 9-16[e] n.a.
9. Mauser All R 3.79 n.a. 1,487,342
10. Gallup hgun hshld R 8 n.a. 777,153
11. Gallup Gun own R 11 n.a. 1,621,377
12. L.A. Times All R 8[c] n.a. 3,609,682
13. Tarrance All Hshld 1/2[d] n.a. 764,036

ABBREV KEY: Own Gun owners
NiA Non-instititionalized Adult Hgun Handgun
RgV Register Voter R Respondent to survey
Res Resident Hshld Household


1. Field Institute, Tabulations of the Findings of a Study of
Handgun Ownership and Access Among a Cross Section of the
California Adult Public (1976).
2. David J. Bordua et al., Illinios Law Enforcement Commission,
Patterns of Firearms Ownership, Regulation and Use in
Illinios (1979).
3. Cambridge Reports, Inc., an Analysis of Public Attitudes Towards
Handgun Control (1978).
4. DMIa & 5. DMIb from DMI (Decision/Making/Information),
Attitudes of the American Electorate Toward Gun Control (1979).
6. Peter D. Hart Research Associates, Violence in America Survey
October 1981.
7. The Ohio Statistical Analysis Center, Ohio Citizen Attitudes
Concerning Crime and Criminal Justice (1982).
8. H. Quinley, Memorandum reporting results from Time/CNN Poll of Gun
Owners, dated Feb. 6, 1990 (1990).
9. Gary A. Mauser, Firearms and Self-defense: The Canadian Case,
Presented at the Annual Meetings of the American Society of
Criminology (Oct. 28, 1993).
10. Gallup Poll 1991,
11. Gallup Poll 1993,
12. L.A. Times poll, and
13. Tarrance poll. (10-13) were taken from a search of the
DIALOG Public Opinion online computer database.


Notes:
[a]. Field recall period: 1 yr, 2 yr and Ever; Use: 1.4%, 3% and 8.6%.
[b]. Estimated annual number of defensive uses of guns of all types
against humans, excluding uses connected with military or police
duties, after any necessary adjustments were made, for U.S., 1993.
Adjustments are explained in detail in Gary Kleck, "Guns and
Self-Defense", on file with the School of Criminology and Criminal
Justice, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL, 1994.
[c]. Covered only uses outside the home.
[d]. 1% of respondents, 2% of households.
[e]. 9% fired gun for self-protection, 7% used gun "to scare someone."
An unknown share of the latter could be defensive uses not
overlapping with the former.

As Kleck & Gertz 1995 pointed out, the sample selection (registered
voters, non-institutionaised adult, handgun owner, gun owner resident)
and the questions asked meant each one of these surveys was measuring
something different and they cannot be directly compared, especially
since the samples represent different years.

adapted from
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime:
The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," Table 1,
Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.

Carl N. Brown
February 11, 2013, 10:36 AM
The Kleck and Gertz National Self-Defense Survey NSDS (1993, article 1995) gave 2.4 million DGU per year. Dataset available for replication.

The Police Foundation National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms NSPOF (1994, NIJ Research in Brief report 1997) gave 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million people. Dataset available for replication. The authors of the NIJ report Cook and Ludwig are big fans of the National Crime Victimization Survey NCVS which gave only 108,000 DGUs (but only a minority of the NCVS sample are ever asked a DGU question). Cook and Ludwig spendt a couple of pages in the NSPOF report trying to explain away the 4.7 million DGUs.

John Lott's documented 2002 DGU survey gave 2.0 million DGU per year. Dataset available for replication.

Lott's lost 1997 DGU survey gave 2.1 million DGU per year, but the dataset is unavailable for replication, and generated a lot of controversy between Sep 2002-Apr 2003. However, nobody has stepped forward to do a DGU survey to confirm or refute Lott's results. Some don't wanna believe, some think it's consistent with the 14 out of 15 national surveys on the subject.

The 1981 Hart survey that projected 1.8 million DGU per year, but it (done for a pro gun control group) has been lost and the dataset is unavailable for replication.

Solo
February 11, 2013, 01:47 PM
Just keep in mind no statistical analysis is perfect, and that they all have flaws, sometimes quite serious ones.

brickeyee
February 11, 2013, 01:58 PM
If I recall it right, collecting better data was one of the Obama Executive Orders.


Defensive gun uses is not the data they are going to collect.

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