Gee Wizz! How Long Does This Take?!?!


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rodwha
February 11, 2013, 02:11 PM
I finally had the opportunity to shoot my new .50 Deerstalker. I used RS until I ran out and switched to P using .490" RB's and grape seed oil lubed 0.015" patches. I fired 50 shots. I wasn't looking for groups. It was purely a break in period to have fun. I started with 50 grns, moved to 70, and then tried 100 grns. :D I settled on 80 grns after that.

At the range I'd swab with a patch with water (both sides) followed by a patch with rubbing alcohol (both sides) every 3-5 shots, as well as before I moved on to the pistol range.

It was late when I got home and so I left it and my Old Army 'til this AM to clean. I've been scrubbing my bore with a brass/bronze (?) bristle brush for nearly an hour and a half and I'm still getting black crud. I'm using dish soap and hot water.

It seems I've read many people spend about an hour cleaning their rifle.

I can't wait to fire off all of the Pyrodex so i can move on to Triple 7. May just shoot it anyway...

Is there no end in sight?!?!

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rodwha
February 11, 2013, 02:23 PM
I notice that my brush is squeezed down smaller for the last inch or so. Is the "chamber" area a smaller diameter?

How are you guys cleaning out the drum area? I have pipe cleaners, but I'm not sure I'd doing a fantastic job.

And how do you clean out the hammer area?

rcflint
February 11, 2013, 02:27 PM
I found that Pyrodex must be cleaned as soon as possible, I even run water patch through the gun at the range. The Pyrodex seems to harden into a glasslike fouling if you leave it too long, unlike Black Powder, and it becomes much harder to clean. It's the reason I stopped using Pyrodex, as well as it seems to be more corrosion producing than black powder. Try Ballistol Moose Milk mix and maybe Hydrogen Peroxide.

Triple 7 will be much easier to clean.

alsaqr
February 11, 2013, 02:40 PM
The Pyrodex seems to harden into a glasslike fouling if you leave it too long, unlike Black Powder, and it becomes much harder to clean.

Bingo!!
Before leaving the range i swab the bore with a patched saturated with Windex With Vinegar, now called Multi-Task Windex. The Windex somewhat neutralizes the Pyrodex residue and keeps it soft. At home gun cleaning is much easier.

rodwha
February 11, 2013, 02:43 PM
Moose Milk is Ballistol to several parts of water, correct?

I've been dying to see how bad the smell is...

rodwha
February 11, 2013, 02:44 PM
I suppose I ought to fill a small bottle with Windex and vinegar as I'd prefer to use the Pyrodex in the rifle since I'm just funning around for now while I break it in.

It appears to getting thinner now that I've spent another 45 mins on it...

rodwha
February 11, 2013, 02:46 PM
This is the first time I put cleaning off 'til the AM. Won't happen next time!

zimmerstutzen
February 11, 2013, 03:18 PM
A few patches of black powder solvent and black powder residue is fairly safe until the following day. I found that a few sloppy patches of WW2 Army bore cleaner does a great job of neutralizing black powder fouling until I can get to a good cleaning.

Pyroduh requires immediate scrubbing. It has a different chemical base and becomes more corrosive. it seems to hide in the microscopic cracks in the metal and keeps oozing out for days to do it's damage.

I still have the first container of the crap I purchased in or around 1981. Nearly destroyed a trap door springfield with it. Still have about 3/4 of a pound in the container.

Nothing but real honest to goodness Holy Goex since then.

loose noose
February 11, 2013, 08:40 PM
Again, and again, if you want a squeeky clean bore use one portion of Murphy's Soap Oil, and an equal portion of Hydrogen Peroxide, and another equal portion of rubbing alcohol. Then send a patch in Bore Butter through the muzzle. Just before you shoot it, make sure you swab out the bore, and the nipples. BTW I'd definitely use the Pyrodex for fertilizer. I've had good luck with Goex BP and Swiss. I've heard that Swiss is the best you can get, I haven't seen any noticeable difference in accuracy using either,:D

rodwha
February 11, 2013, 11:42 PM
I'd consider BP if I could get Swiss. I called a few places. One was closed, Bass Pro doesn't carry it, and the other didn't answer.

I noticed how much easier and quicker my Old Army was to clean now that I've fired nothing but T7 through it vs the Pyrodex.

From what little I've seen Swiss performs closely to how Triple 7 does. I'm intrigued. The only thing I don't like is that it's explosive...

boommer
February 12, 2013, 01:30 AM
Swiss has the most energy per grain of the black powders, it's a dense volume to weight. example 50grs buy VOLUME might weigh 55grs buy WEIGHT. Swiss also has harder fouling.

Goex dosn't have the energy that the Swiss has, not as dense of powder
example 50grs buy VOLUME might weigh 45 grains buy weight. but softer fouling, that helps with loading on front stuffers.
I use Goex and other brands of black in my muzzle loaders 90% of the time and Swiss in the long range cartridge rifles.

Fryerpower
February 12, 2013, 01:55 AM
Would it help to shoot your last few shots with something other than pyrodex?

Jim

BHP FAN
February 12, 2013, 03:18 AM
Triple Seven actually seems to clean my bore, and the clean-up is hot water. As for Pyrodreck, as someone has already mentioned, it does make darned fine fertilizer.....I've been telling folks that for years.

Jefferson Herb
February 12, 2013, 11:26 AM
Pyrodex is why I now have a GM barrel.When pyrodex first came out,it was youted as the new wonder powder for muzzle loaders and non corrosive.I got in a hurry one day in early 80's and forgot to clean for a few days....
I now use black,mostly goex[out of elephant],abd use 1000+ for lube.
I have no interest in using a sub that costs as much as smokless,and will make my own if times require it,Which means I may get another rock lock or two.

mykeal
February 12, 2013, 01:31 PM
I don't recall anyone ever claiming Pyrodex was non-corrosive. In fact, quite the opposite - the initial reviews, and the experiences of myself and my peers at the time were that it was more corrosive than real black.

boommer
February 12, 2013, 04:58 PM
There's a easy to fix the problems all this fake powder Quit buying it and use the real stuff. Diamond back real black powder is 9.50 a pound at
crater fireworks,blasting and black powder at (www.addictedtoblackpowder.com
815-542-6287 or563-529-1064 Jon Blackert
Diamond back powder is good powder little harder fouling than GOEX but more energy per grain. I've burnt about 7#up and so far and it's really decent powder for the price. Heck you can get 5# to the door for under a 100 bucks!

Jim, West PA
February 13, 2013, 07:59 AM
Rodwa, I use Bore Butter and real powder.
I keep my bore swabbed with it and i lube my patches with it.
I can get 2 dozen easily loaded shots before loading even starts to get 'tight'.
Clean up is nothing more than a patch on the jag using HOT water and dish soap.
I fill the sink deep enough to get the touch hole under water.( i remove the touch hole ) I then use the patched jag to draw hot soapy water in and out of the bore. A few passes with a nylon brush, back to the patched jag until it comes out clean. I rinse with HOT water and while the Bbl is still hot i swab it with Bore Butter. 10-15 minutes max, job done.
Can't speak for the fakes.

swathdiver
February 13, 2013, 09:39 AM
I use Bore Butter and real powder.

Ditto!

Steel Horse Rider
February 13, 2013, 10:44 AM
I use bore butter and Pyrodex in my Kentucky pistol and Lyman Plains Rifle. I made a cleaning trough from a 4' section of plastic rain gutter with a cap on each end. I fill it with steaming hot water with some Dawn dish detergent and let each gun soak for about 5 minutes. If you pull the nipple you can run a swab down it several times to force water in and out of the hole left by the nipple. Rinse with hot water, swab with several patches until dry and then swab with bore butter saturated patches. I wipe down the outside surfaces and the lock with CLP. I haven't had any corrosion or cleaning problems and the entire process including disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly is probably 45 minutes.

Rattus58
February 13, 2013, 03:15 PM
I don't recall anyone ever claiming Pyrodex was non-corrosive. In fact, quite the opposite - the initial reviews, and the experiences of myself and my peers at the time were that it was more corrosive than real black.
Exactly.... but it is consistent, powerful and very reliable. You just have to deal with it after shooting... and after a long day afield dragging home a successful hunt and all, sometimes the idea of dealing with it is daunting... and tomorrow is only a little ways away....

If that happens to me, I now swab or soak my barrel in marvel oil for a few and then clean it out with alcohol patches and swab them again with a soaked patch... This is new to me... but so far working.... It's saving my tools when ultimately wiped with lucas gun oil to this is my system.... Marvel seems (can't confirm) to penetrate the fouling .... I'll have to do some more complete comparison sometime, but its producing clean barrels so far after I've had a chance to do a thorough cleaning in the "morning"....

Jefferson Herb
February 14, 2013, 02:34 AM
I may have misread the article.It was in early 80's before the first plant blew up,at that time I had to travel 200 mi round trip to get black,Hauled in my backpack on motorcycle. duh. Did I get that wrong about the plant also?

zimmerstutzen
February 14, 2013, 08:32 AM
Rattus I don't have to deal with it at all
It doesn't fire reliably in half my guns
I can clean my gun easier if I just stick to real stuff

The original purpose was to provide a non explosive propellant to skirt the revs applicable to real powder

Rattus58
February 14, 2013, 01:15 PM
Rattus I don't have to deal with it at all
It doesn't fire reliably in half my guns
I can clean my gun easier if I just stick to real stuff

The original purpose was to provide a non explosive propellant to skirt the revs applicable to real powder
I couldn't agree with you more on that account, it is very difficult to get black powder to the Big Island anymore. The last batch came here via a group buy (2 of us) with 25 lbs each of which I'm jealously holding on to a couple of pounds for my flinters.

However, the cleaning process should work the same, except that hot water works pretty well on black powder. Much Aloha....

jeepnik
February 16, 2013, 07:13 PM
Here's a hint. Dishwasher.

Disassemble as usual for cleaning put the smaller parts in the silverware basket and stick the frame so the barrel is pointed down. Add soap, run it. The dry cycle does a great job or removing water from nooks and crannies. Lube it up and your done.

Oh, run the dishwasher thru an empty cycle when you are done, just to make sure there isn't any "evidence" for the wife to find.

rodwha
February 17, 2013, 11:39 AM
I'm assuming you mean with the pistol?

I tried the dishwasher trick with my Old Army, but it didn't do squat. I do use it on the dry cycle though. Maybe firing Pyrodex and Triple 7 created a mess the dishwasher couldn't handle. But it also didn't do anything to the cap fouling.

I considered trying the dry cycle for my 24" rifle barrel, but with fiber optic sights I'm afraid they might melt or otherwise get damaged.

woodnbow
February 17, 2013, 01:13 PM
I've never tried the dishwasher trick, something about putting a pistol in a high heat and high humidity environment reminds me of rust blueing. I prefer to clean the piece, dry it and then oil it. Works like a charm every time and I've never had any issues with rust. You do get a bit quicker with time and practice.

OrangePwrx9
February 21, 2013, 08:50 PM
I have no idea what's going on here. I've never had any problem cleaning up after Pyrodex using just hot soapy water. That's in TC, Lyman, Green Mountain, and Investarms barrels; stainless, chromed, but mostly plain. All come clean after 3 or 4 patches. The Pietta 1858 cleans up good too.

I do usually run a damp patch or two down the barrel before leaving the range.

Rodwha, are you sure you cleaned all the preservative out of the Lyman's bore before you started shooting? I just bought a .54 Deerstalker and there's a lot of preservative in the barrel. If you didn't get it clean before shooting, it may have turned to asphalt...and that's what you're seeing.

rodwha
February 21, 2013, 09:09 PM
It took a lot of cleaning, but I believe I got it all. If not I got most of it.

It was said by someone that my problem was having left it overnight. An even bigger no no with Pyrodex he claimed.

I'm not even sure that it wasn't just flash rust I was seeing.

It's all good now. I checked it the next day, and then again a few days later. Clean patch.

rodwha
February 21, 2013, 09:10 PM
I did run a wet patch (both sides) followed by an alcohol patch (both sides) before I moved on to the pistol range.

I wouldn't have stayed 6 hours if I knew I'd leave my guns dirty... It was just too much fun, and too long since I had been. I couldn't help myself.

mike.
February 21, 2013, 09:17 PM
i have a 1849 colt pocket that has some dark mess in the barrel.Never shot it.Came this way when i got it.Any tips like the above would greatly appreciated.
Mike

rodwha
February 22, 2013, 10:27 AM
Is it shipping grease (new)? Or is it powder fouling?

YumaKid
February 24, 2013, 12:09 AM
Been there myownself; and of course a long seemingly pointless story follows...

For those who missed it (and probably they are legion); my older son-in-law and I were tasked to find "a Smith and Wesson .357 just like Mom's!" for the older daughter's birthday present. A .38 Spl was not to be considered 'optimal', so of course we found a plethora of Model 14's and 64's. Auto-loaders were out; as the daughter had enough troubles meeting her quarterly quals with the M9 service pistol. (I can't accurately shoot a Beretta 92 either; daughter and I are agreed that that particular platform is biased against lefties, no matter our political bent!)

So it ends up that, three fruitless days after her birthday, her husband and I were at a little gunshow at the County Fairgrounds in Atlantic, Iowa; and back in the darkest corner of a display case lies this pathetic-looking 4" barrel Model 66, the stainless version of the Model 19 Combat Magnum. "Grungey-looking" was the best AND the most generous description I could attribute to the poor little thing; dirty, smoke-tracked and with some myterious "growth" in the bore. I talked the dealer out of a bore brush and some Hoppe's to see if the bore would clean up. I think he knew he had a couple of rubes on the hook when we came back 4 times to look at the revolver. 15 patches and half an 8-ounce bottle of #9 later, I had a feeling that there was 'some promise'.
Lord I hoped so... that 1986-vintage wheelgun ultimately cost me (my half of the purchase price) $10 more than the full cost of my wife's NEW Model 13 M&P some 16 years before!

The results proved out when we loaded her up with some full-jacket ball and let 'er rip. If I had the ability to stuff my entire face and a Gillette razor into the barrel along with my bore-light; I could have shaved my whiskers without too much blood-letting. I think that, somewhere in it's lifetime, that sweet little .357 had been stuffed with reloads charged with Unique and with slugs cast from the same dead-soft lead Hornaday uses in their .451 and .454 roundballs.

So, "Gee Wizz!"... it's gonna take as long as you are willing to spend in time, hopefully not money. And we're all pulling for you.

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