South Carolina - ACTION needed!


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bjustus
February 11, 2013, 09:18 PM
If you are a Palmetto gun rights member you have probably already received an email.

In the South Carolina state senate: a committe is meeting to consider concealed carry in restaurants (currently CC in restaurants that serve alcohol is not allowed.) There is a hearing this Wednesday the thirteenth. The bill is S308.

Please contact the committee members and urge them to put the bill before the floor:

Senator Shane Massey (chairman) (803) 212-6024 shanemassey@scsenate.gov

Senator Katrina Shealy (bill sponsor) (803) 212-6056 katrinashealy@scsenate.gov

Senator Creighton Coleman (803) 212-6032 creightoncoleman@scsenate.gov

Senator Sean Bennett (bill sponsor) (803) 212-6116 seanbennett@scsenate.gov

Senator Floyd Nicholson (803) 212-6000 floydnicholson@scsenate.gov

I sent an email to all five; here's a copy of what I sent:

Dear Senator Nicholson,


Thank you for serving our state on the committee to consider S308. I sincerely hope that you recognize the importance of furthering the right of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their families. I strongly supported passage of the law about 20 years ago to allow concealed carry, but I was very disappointed when I heard of the restriction about carrying in restaurants.


By not allowing law abiding citizens to carry protection in restaurants you may as well put up a neon sign at the front door of the building advertising to the psycopath-would-be-active-shooter that there is a convenient grouping of unarmed sheep for the slaughter. Nearly every mass killer in American history has sought out such a venue for his mayhem.

Concerns about firearms in a location that serves alcohol should not cause responsible people to have their rights restricted.


Almost every time I am out with my family or friends, I have to relinquish my right to protection because going to a restaurant falls somewhere in the days activities. It is not feasible, for example, to take the gun back to the car when I have walked a mile and a half into the center of downtown Greenville from the parking garage before stepping into a restaurant. Instead I'm forced to find myself on a long walk back to the car, unarmed, when the nights activities are over. In a group I still feel relatively safe but if it's just my wife and I, or my wife and daughter and me, I can tell you there are times we have chosen to stay at home instead.


When concealed carry first started here two decades ago there was, as there is now, a provision for businesses to placard that guns were not allowed on their premises, and quite a few did. Now, you almost never see the signs. The initial paranoia apparently gave way to a realization by most sensible people that places of commerce are safer, and busier when they are not advertised, "gun free zones."


Many are familiar with the story of "Luby's Massacre" and Suzanna Hupp who dutifully left her pistol in her car due to just such a restriction in Texas years ago. She watched in horror as both of her parents were shot along with 48 other people as the gunman reloaded several times, strolling around the restaurant killing at will in the "gun free zone".


Bad people ignore laws at will and do bad things; they always have, they always will. People have a right to protect themselves and the ones they love. It just doesn't make sense to continue to strip down innocent people and make them ripe for the slaughter by criminals who disregard laws due to a paranoia or fear about guns. Having firearms tucked in the belts of responsible citizens doesn't result in, "the wild west" as some proclaim -- it results in countless crimes prevented WITHOUT a shot being fired because criminals know their prey has a right to protect themselves and fight back if they need to.


PLEASE support my right to protect my family and myself and ensure this bill becomes law. My daughter or wife may someday escape being a victim because of your actions; and it will far more likely be a preventative, "innoculation" than any shots fired. I can't imagine how many lives have already been saved, beatings and rapes prevented; because we've kept criminals on the streets guessing these last twenty years.


Respectfully, (my name and address)

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bender01
February 11, 2013, 10:04 PM
Thanks for the link! Im a Chef! Ive been waiting for this!

dbp
February 11, 2013, 10:46 PM
You have crafted an excellent argument for passage of this proposed bill. Thanks for posting this.

dbp
February 11, 2013, 10:49 PM
Thanks for the link! Im a Chef! Ive been waiting for this!
Say Bender, are you a member of the S.C. Hospitality Assoc.? If you are you may want to be sure they are aware of this. They have a very strong lobby in the State House.

dbp
February 11, 2013, 11:53 PM
It will get out of committee because both Sean Bennett and I are on the sub-committee and are sponsors. I have talked to Shane Massey and am pretty sure he is going to vote with us. I donít think Nicholson will oppose it and I donít know Coleman that well. I think if we have a big turn out at the sub-committee hearing it will be a big help. When it gets to full committee we definitely will need a large turn out to get it out. I think we can do it though because most of the new Freshmen Senators will vote the right way and there are 10 of us!

From: David [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 11:29 PM
To: Katrina Shealy
Subject: RE: Consideration of bill S308

I knew you would be supporting it and really appreciate your sponsorship. Would you share with me your thoughts on chances for passage?

From: Katrina Shealy [mailto:KatrinaShealy@scsenate.gov]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 11:24 PM
To: 'David'
Subject: RE: Consideration of bill S308

I am a co-sponsor on this bill and a strong supporter of our 2nd amendment rights. I will be supporting the passage of this bill.
Regards,
Katrina Shealy

dbp
February 11, 2013, 11:59 PM
OK -- All of you from here in the Palmetto State - please contact these state senators tonight or tomorrow and encourage them to support this bill.

I am really looking forward to being able to finally carry legally in my favorite restaurants! :)

packpike
February 12, 2013, 07:47 AM
Done.

packpike
February 13, 2013, 07:42 AM
Wrong thread, sorry.

Ryanxia
February 13, 2013, 09:36 AM
I hope this passes. I remember watching a woman speak about how her and her husband carried every day but since they worked in a bar at night they had to leave their guns in the car, one night someone came in and shot her husband (don't remember if it was a robbery) she said she was pretty confident that between her and her husband if they were carrying they could have stopped the guy.

Derek Zeanah
February 13, 2013, 09:43 AM
If you get a chance, throw in a good word for reciprocity with us GA folks. :D

Good luck.

Beach Nut
February 13, 2013, 10:03 AM
In North Carolina we are fighting the same fight; a bill has been introduced that would
allow carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. We wish the gun owners in South Carolina
good luck in their campaign to expand the rights of concealed carry permit holders
and hopefully both of our states will pass this legislation.

dbp
February 13, 2013, 02:00 PM
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) - "A Senate panel has advanced a bill intended to let people with concealed weapon permits carry their gun into restaurants.

The bill advanced Wednesday on a 3-0 vote allows permit holders to carry their concealed weapon into places that serve alcohol.

Gun rights advocates praised the bill as restoring citizens' rights.

The bill prevents people from drinking alcohol with a concealed gun. Anyone caught could face up to two years in prison.

Several people asked legislators to change that, saying they should be able to have a beer or glass of wine with dinner.

Republican Sen. Shane Massey of Edgefield says that would doom the bill's chances."

Well, this is a start. At least it got out of committee.

dbp
February 13, 2013, 02:05 PM
If you get a chance, throw in a good word for reciprocity with us GA folks. :D

Good luck.
I do wish the two states could get together on this. I am retired now, but used to spend a good deal of time in Georgia from Augusta down to Waycross, over to Macon and Statesboro in the other direction, and all points in between.Could never legally carry concealed. :(

v65magnafan
February 14, 2013, 01:05 PM
For what it's worth at this point, this is my contribution:

Senator Massey:

I am a resident of ______ County and a CWP holder. I am licensed to carry concealed in about 40 states. I am a certified tactical pistol instructor.

Is it reasonable that in South Carolina, I must leave my family without equalized self-defense both in a restaurant that serves alcohol and, perhaps worse, while walking between our auto and the premises?

I can recall the time when after seeing the success of CCW in Florida, many states instituted legal concealed carry. In almost every state, some law enforcement officials predicted gun fights over traffic incidents and blood running in the streets. Of course, this never happened. As a result, no state has ever considered rescinding CCW rights.

Similarly, no state that permits CCW in alcohol-licensed establishments has ever felt the need to rescind that particular right.

Why would South Carolina continue a gun-free zone policy that clearly is unnecessary?

Yours truly,

footballboy3
February 14, 2013, 07:37 PM
I emailed them. Does anyone know the time frame on when this could pass and be in effect? thanks

dbp
February 19, 2013, 11:59 AM
For what it's worth at this point, this is my contribution:

Senator Massey:

I am a resident of ______ County and a CWP holder. I am licensed to carry concealed in about 40 states. I am a certified tactical pistol instructor.

Is it reasonable that in South Carolina, I must leave my family without equalized self-defense both in a restaurant that serves alcohol and, perhaps worse, while walking between our auto and the premises?

I can recall the time when after seeing the success of CCW in Florida, many states instituted legal concealed carry. In almost every state, some law enforcement officials predicted gun fights over traffic incidents and blood running in the streets. Of course, this never happened. As a result, no state has ever considered rescinding CCW rights.

Similarly, no state that permits CCW in alcohol-licensed establishments has ever felt the need to rescind that particular right.

Why would South Carolina continue a gun-free zone policy that clearly is unnecessary?

Yours truly,
++1 on this. Good letter. We now have to wait before it goes to the full House vote and I'm not sure when that will be.

Al Thompson
March 13, 2013, 07:22 PM
Update:

The bill was blocked by one of the senators placing a "minority report" on the bill. With Grassroots SC on hold over their legal problems, this may kill the bill.

Gottahaveone
April 5, 2013, 05:16 PM
Unless I'm reading the bottom section of this report wrong, it is passed and goes into effect upon the Governors signature. Been waiting a long time for this :)

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess120_2013-2014/bills/308.htm

bjustus
April 5, 2013, 07:57 PM
The NRA ILA site on 3/21/2013 stated the Bill was expedited to the full senate for debate and vote, but that the vote will come after the return from spring recess on April 9.

Maybe what you were looking at is the latest version they are expected to vote on? I don't know.

Keep up the calls and emails to your state Reps and Senators for the area you live in folks, this is IMPORTANT!

dbp
April 24, 2013, 12:38 AM
If you are a Palmetto gun rights member you have probably already received an email.

In the South Carolina state senate: a committe is meeting to consider concealed carry in restaurants (currently CC in restaurants that serve alcohol is not allowed.) There is a hearing this Wednesday the thirteenth. The bill is S308.

Please contact the committee members and urge them to put the bill before the floor:

Senator Shane Massey (chairman) (803) 212-6024 shanemassey@scsenate.gov

Senator Katrina Shealy (bill sponsor) (803) 212-6056 katrinashealy@scsenate.gov

Senator Creighton Coleman (803) 212-6032 creightoncoleman@scsenate.gov

Senator Sean Bennett (bill sponsor) (803) 212-6116 seanbennett@scsenate.gov

Senator Floyd Nicholson (803) 212-6000 floydnicholson@scsenate.gov

I sent an email to all five; here's a copy of what I sent:

Dear Senator Nicholson,


Thank you for serving our state on the committee to consider S308. I sincerely hope that you recognize the importance of furthering the right of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their families. I strongly supported passage of the law about 20 years ago to allow concealed carry, but I was very disappointed when I heard of the restriction about carrying in restaurants.


By not allowing law abiding citizens to carry protection in restaurants you may as well put up a neon sign at the front door of the building advertising to the psycopath-would-be-active-shooter that there is a convenient grouping of unarmed sheep for the slaughter. Nearly every mass killer in American history has sought out such a venue for his mayhem.

Concerns about firearms in a location that serves alcohol should not cause responsible people to have their rights restricted.


Almost every time I am out with my family or friends, I have to relinquish my right to protection because going to a restaurant falls somewhere in the days activities. It is not feasible, for example, to take the gun back to the car when I have walked a mile and a half into the center of downtown Greenville from the parking garage before stepping into a restaurant. Instead I'm forced to find myself on a long walk back to the car, unarmed, when the nights activities are over. In a group I still feel relatively safe but if it's just my wife and I, or my wife and daughter and me, I can tell you there are times we have chosen to stay at home instead.


When concealed carry first started here two decades ago there was, as there is now, a provision for businesses to placard that guns were not allowed on their premises, and quite a few did. Now, you almost never see the signs. The initial paranoia apparently gave way to a realization by most sensible people that places of commerce are safer, and busier when they are not advertised, "gun free zones."


Many are familiar with the story of "Luby's Massacre" and Suzanna Hupp who dutifully left her pistol in her car due to just such a restriction in Texas years ago. She watched in horror as both of her parents were shot along with 48 other people as the gunman reloaded several times, strolling around the restaurant killing at will in the "gun free zone".


Bad people ignore laws at will and do bad things; they always have, they always will. People have a right to protect themselves and the ones they love. It just doesn't make sense to continue to strip down innocent people and make them ripe for the slaughter by criminals who disregard laws due to a paranoia or fear about guns. Having firearms tucked in the belts of responsible citizens doesn't result in, "the wild west" as some proclaim -- it results in countless crimes prevented WITHOUT a shot being fired because criminals know their prey has a right to protect themselves and fight back if they need to.


PLEASE support my right to protect my family and myself and ensure this bill becomes law. My daughter or wife may someday escape being a victim because of your actions; and it will far more likely be a preventative, "innoculation" than any shots fired. I can't imagine how many lives have already been saved, beatings and rapes prevented; because we've kept criminals on the streets guessing these last twenty years.


Respectfully, (my name and address)
The South Carolina senate just passed S308 by a healthy margin allowing carry in restaurants . It now goes to the House. I will be sending a note to the Senators thanking them for standing up for my 2A rights. Hopefully it will pass in the House as well.

btg3
April 27, 2013, 08:58 PM
Apr 24, 2013 House Referred to Committee on Judiciary
Apr 24, 2013 House Introduced and read first time
Apr 23, 2013 Senate Roll call Ayes-33 Nays-5

bjustus
May 30, 2013, 12:21 PM
This is up before the full house THIS WEEK. There was talk of allowing carry but with a stupid 12 - 5 am "curfew" but the curfew was stricken. We need to make sure this passes and WITHOUT the curfew.

Please call your state representative today!

scstatehouse.gov/legislatorssearch.php

627PCFan
May 30, 2013, 02:19 PM
Not to hijack, but can you OC while in the resturant/bar?

mgmorden
May 30, 2013, 04:26 PM
Not to hijack, but can you OC while in the resturant/bar?

You can't open carry in SC at all except while hunting or fishing (and while in possession of a valid hunting/fishing license).

dbp
May 31, 2013, 12:32 PM
You can't open carry in SC at all except while hunting or fishing (and while in possession of a valid hunting/fishing license).
So you are saying it is lawful for me to be out on Lake Murray crappie fishing with my Glock exposed on my belt? If so, when does that legal status begin and end -- when I step into or out of the boat? What if I'm just fishing from the bank around a pond? All this is pretty vague to me. Can you clarify this a little?

dbp
May 31, 2013, 01:20 PM
" SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:

(4) licensed hunters or fishermen who are engaged in hunting or fishing or going to or from their places of hunting or fishing while in a vehicle or on foot;"


You are correct mgmorden- never doubted you for a moment! I had never heard this mentioned before and it wasn't covered at all in CWP class so I was surprised to hear this.

I'm a little concerned that it is up to interpretation of LEOs to how they would respond to seeing me open carry in this situation. For instance - I live in a lakeside community and have about a 200 yard walk to the water. I believe I would have a hard time with LEO if I were seen open carrying my Glock as I walk with my rods to the water. I guess I wold be legal, but I don't care to open carry just the same.

mgmorden
May 31, 2013, 02:07 PM
So you are saying it is lawful for me to be out on Lake Murray crappie fishing with my Glock exposed on my belt? If so, when does that legal status begin and end -- when I step into or out of the boat? What if I'm just fishing from the bank around a pond? All this is pretty vague to me. Can you clarify this a little?

SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:

(1) regular, salaried law enforcement officers, and reserve police officers of a state agency, municipality, or county of the State, uncompensated Governor's constables, law enforcement officers of the federal government or other states when they are carrying out official duties while in this State, deputy enforcement officers of the Natural Resources Enforcement Division of the Department of Natural Resources, and retired commissioned law enforcement officers employed as private detectives or private investigators;

(2) members of the Armed Forces of the United States, the National Guard, organized reserves, or the State Militia when on duty;

(3) members, or their invited guests, of organizations authorized by law to purchase or receive firearms from the United States or this State or regularly enrolled members, or their invited guests, of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting or collecting modern and antique firearms while these members, or their invited guests, are at or going to or from their places of target practice or their shows and exhibits;

(4) licensed hunters or fishermen who are engaged in hunting or fishing or going to or from their places of hunting or fishing while in a vehicle or on foot;

(5) a person regularly engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, repossessing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of this person, while possessing, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

(6) guards authorized by law to possess handguns and engaged in protection of property of the United States or any agency of the United States;

(7) members of authorized military or civil organizations while parading or when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations;

(8) a person in his home or upon his real property or a person who has the permission of the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of the home or real property;

(9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:

(a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance; or

(b) concealed on or about his person, and he has a valid concealed weapons permit pursuant to the provisions of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23;

(10) a person carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or fixed place of business or while in the process of changing or moving one's residence or changing or moving one's fixed place of business;

(11) a prison guard while engaged in his official duties;

(12) a person who is granted a permit under provision of law by the State Law Enforcement Division to carry a handgun about his person, under conditions set forth in the permit, and while transferring the handgun between the permittee's person and a location specified in item (9);

(13) the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of a fixed place of business, while at the fixed place of business, and the employee of a fixed place of business, other than a business subject to Section 16-23-465, while at the place of business; however, the employee may exercise this privilege only after: (a) acquiring a permit pursuant to item (12), and (b) obtaining the permission of the owner or person in legal control or legal possession of the premises;

(14) a person engaged in firearms-related activities while on the premises of a fixed place of business which conducts, as a regular course of its business, activities related to sale, repair, pawn, firearms training, or use of firearms, unless the premises is posted with a sign limiting possession of firearms to holders of permits issued pursuant to item (12);

(15) a person while transferring a handgun directly from or to a vehicle and a location specified in this section where one may legally possess the handgun.

(16) Any person on a motorcycle when the pistol is secured in a closed saddlebag or other similar closed accessory container attached, whether permanently or temporarily, to the motorcycle."


Important part in bold. Items 1-16 are the exceptions to the prohibition on open carry but those most are not applicable to the average citizen on a daily basis.

Item #4 states that a licensed hunter or fisherman may openly carry a firearm while hunting or fishing and while traveling to and from your place of hunting and fishing.

So yes, you can have your Glock on you if you're out on Lake Murray fishing. Even if you're on the bank (assuming you're not tresspassing) its ok, provided that you have a fishing license (a fishing license isn't always required to fish - if you're using a cane pole from the bank for example, but without the license you can't be carrying).

The transport to and from part is a bit more dicey. If you're driving straight home or straight from home you're pretty much OK, but if you make any stops along the way it could be challenged. I wouldn't personally carry anywhere else along the way (I wouldn't even stop for gas with the gun on), but just for the drive itself you're good to go.

Do note though that during certain hunting seasons there are other laws that relate to what weapons you can have on you. If you're carrying a centerfire pistol on government land during small-game season then while you couldn't be charged with unlawful carrying of a handgun under Section 16-23-20, you could still be written a ticket for having a centerfire weapon/ammo there. If you were carrying a rimfire pistol you'd be OK since rimfire is legal for small game hunting.

Similarly, during turkey season only shot is allowed, so if you wanted to carry on government/WMA land there unless you wanted a ticket you'd need to carry something like a Taurus Judge with birdshot since that's the only weapon that would meet the criteria for the open season.

Generally, I don't worry much about carrying a handgun while hunting (I've got a rifle or shotgun already), but I do occasionally wear a gun while I'm out on the boat fishing.\

EDIT: Sorry, was working on that reply for a while and didn't see your 2nd post. Looks like you found what you were looking for :).

dbp
May 31, 2013, 02:59 PM
Thanks for your reply. It can get a little confusing trying to keep all the laws straight. I do appreciate your input.

I imagine you would have more of a need for carry on the coastal waters. After all, you do have to deal with those folks from both north and south of the border moving up and down the ICW.

bjustus
June 9, 2013, 07:24 AM
Thanks to our calls and emails, the house version dropped the curfew provision and a proposal to increase the application fee for CWP was also ditched.

The Senate didn't quite make the vote to accept the house's version of the bill before they adjourned for the year -- so now the vote won't be until at least January when the state legislature goes back in session. It's looking very good though. When you call and write your reps and senators, it makes a difference!

If you enjoyed reading about "South Carolina - ACTION needed!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!